Salisbury Cathedral

Subject: Salisbury Cathedral
From: GUEST,josteane
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 03:17 PM

I had only heard of Winchester Cathedral by the Kinks until I visited Salisbury Cathedral by the A36

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: Spongebrother
Date: 22 Feb 11 - 03:43 PM

Wasn't that New Vaudeville Band?

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: Joe Offer
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 04:37 AM

The A36? Don't think I've heard of that band....

I'll get me coat.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 23 Feb 11 - 08:05 AM

I was there this weekend via Bristol and stopped by the Boathouse Inn on Sunday. This terrific place had live music and such a great atmosphere and I can't wait to pay Salisbury a visit again and the Cathedral very soon.

Yes it was the New Vaudeville Band that did Winchester Cathdedral 'A Vo dee o doe'

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: ollaimh
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 12:45 AM

i recall visiting salisbury cathedral a few years ago while on vacation in the uk. its a magnificant example of an old british church. we were going to stone henge and avebury and things around--white horse hill. after my wife lamented on sillbury haill"well we climbed another great honking hill to look at a another pile of rocks i agreed to tour the town.   

old sarum is also nice--where the previous town and cathedral. there was a history day there with ancient medieval napoleonic and world war one soldiers amd cultures. a lot of fun. one medieval fellow remined me of latin class in high school. he showed us how to add suntract and multiply and divide using roman numerals. i had to do exams on that as a boy, but i had forgotten untill then.

salisbury is a very pretty town

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: jumbledjim
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 01:51 AM

As a former resident, can I also suggest (for those who haven't visited)....things that are often missed....the oldest clock in the cathedral; take a picnic lunch in the cathedral close; walk over the town path (across the watermeadows) and view the cathedral as seen in many famous paintings; visit the museum in the close; visit St Thomas's Church to see the famous Doom painting; try St Edmund's Arts Centre for live music....a truly beautiful city, enjoy....

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 02:01 AM

There are actually even more cathedrals!

Has anyone else climbed up to Old Sarum on a fine day?

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 03:12 AM

Salisbury is beautiful...the medieval blue window is amazing..

York Minster is another Cathedral well worth a visit...and a walk through the nearby Shambles afterwards too...again medieval streets..absolutely breathtaking..

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: scouse
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 04:43 AM

You wanna go to Liverpool... We've got two.. One Protestant and the others called "Paddy's Wigwam." great places and a street that connects them called Hope Street!!! Could only happen in Liverpool.

As Aye,

Phil.

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: GUEST, topsie
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 05:11 AM

While you are in Salisbury, don't forget Salisbury's GIANT Christopher.

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 05:34 AM

Are there any English Cathedrals, Minsters, Priories & Abbeys that aren't worth visiting? Well, I find the Anglican Cathedral in Liverpool utterly charmless, much prefering the serene modernism of Paddy's Wigwam, and Coventry leaves me pretty cold too, but apart from that...

York is still revealing its secrets after a lifetime of familiarity, I can lose 2 hours each visit in the Chapter House alone. Recent encounters at Southwell and Ely have touched me very deeply - the chapter house & vestibule at Southwell haunts my dreams, and I could easily spend the rest of my life in the Lady Chapel at Ely. Chester is darkly mysterious, whilst Lincoln is filled with celestial light (as justly celebrated by the Amazing Blondel). The cloisters of Norwich had me absorbed for the full four hours of my wife & mother-in-law's shopping trip into town - I believe the rest of the cathedral is worth a look too! Hereford has some amazing woodwork & touches of the celebrated Romanesque which I'm looking forward to revisiting in the summer. The fan-vaulted cloisters at Gloucester are mind-blowing, and full marks for the pamphlet explaing that Green Men aren't pagan after all, though at most other cathedrals the custodians are only too happy to propagate the myth that they are. Talking of which, the amblutory at Tewkesbury features some of the finest Green Men anywhere - and despite the garish Victorian make-over Worcester is still worth a visit, if only for the cloister bosses. Durham has its undoubted charms; the Galilee Chapel is one of my favourite places on planet earth - it was here I once had a coversation with Christopher Lee without realising who he was. At Exeter you can see things like THIS at head height making me a very happy bunny indeed. The charms of Beverley are legion; from the spandrel musicians to the celebrated misericords (though I found those at Saint Mary's more impressive) and an hour at Leicester a few years back has left no impression other than a few foliate beasts lurking in the spandrels and something strange in an upper chapel the nature of which presently alludes me. Manchester is ill-lit, but comes alive on a sunny day; the stalls are charming, but if it's the famous (?) Green Men you're looking for be sure to bring your binoculars - though there is a fine Green Lion at head height and a Medieval Tableau reminiscent of Rainbow. Lancaster has some of the finest choir stalls in the country and those of Cartmel are worth eshewing the sticky toffee pudding for; lots of serpents at Cartmel too, and fine skull adornments on the tombs. The column capitals of Carlise are among the nation's treasures, and at Newcastle you can see the memorial of Captain Bover whose exploits inspired several Tyneside Folk Songs, one of which is eponymous. Sheffield has some of the most disturbing roof-boss imagery anywhere in the country - folksy, vernacular, primitive maybe, but hardly pagan.

That's enough for now anyway.

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 07:07 AM

I intend to climb up to Old Sarum next time and have more of a good look around. It was my first time in Salisbury unfortunately in the past it had always been somewhere that my family and I regularly passed through to get to the Island but never stopped. Now I know what I have been missing I look forward to going back.

Up until now my Isle of Wight mate and I had been taking trips on his motorbike around the areas of Gloucester, Worcester, Devon, Cornwall and Wales which has been really nice, taking in the scenery and meeting the locals on route etc. It is surprising how tastes of music and styles differ slightly from county to county too. We have been discussing where to plan to go next early this summer so all the information above is valuable for us.

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: Andy Jackson
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 07:12 AM

Thanks jumbledjim for reminding me of St Edmunds Art Centre. This was the main venue for several Folk under Aries Festivals back in the 70's. Remember the snow anyone?
Andy

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 07:24 AM

The Liverpool Anglican Catedral may be charmless but it is impressive. It's the first buliding I've been in that's been big enough to have clouds inside!
Also the organ is an impressive instrument. Whilst the Cathedral was under construction with a temporary end wall the organ had to be throttled back to avoid blowing the wall out.

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 07:50 AM

Not forgetting Wells where you might set your watches by Jack Bandiver's bell and be utterly beguiled by the misericords, as well you might be in many of our cathedrals, not least Blackburn where you may find some of Mr Eatough's finest work from Whalley Abbey cicra 1430, however so grubby in comparison to the bulk of them which ended up in Whalley Parish Church. In mentioning Lincoln above I neglected to point out Eleanor's Visceral Tomb and the Head Shrine of Saint Hugh, and the famous Imp, of course. Chester has an imp too, once featured on brass door knockers and toasting forks, though there's nothing of him in the gift-shop these days, unlike the Lincoln Imp who gets the full souvenir treatment to suit all pockets. York is well served in reproductions, though a classic example of an Anglican Establishment promoting Pagan Green Man fakelore over the culture & theology of the people who actually built the cathedrals in the first place. Never been to Salisbury though I picked up The Glories of Salisbury Cathedral (1948) from the Carnforth Bookshop from which I gather the OT reliefs in the chapter house are worth a look; a future jaunt is on the cards, Winchester likewise...

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: GUEST,josteane
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 05:43 PM

Goddamn you guys! There was me thinking that the A36 was the next stop before the AK37, but then, you Christians do what the # you want anyway. Build 'em big and phallic then everyone the world over will want one.

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: GUEST,josteane
Date: 24 Feb 11 - 06:30 PM

AND../. Edward Rutherford's epic tome ("SARUM")isn't for sale in the cathedral bookshop yet Leslie ("VIRGIN SOLDIERS") Thomas' cntribution appears everywhere. Who are the Critics? Who are the Cynics? Who is actually adding up? [Hi Patsy!]

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 04:53 AM

If you're interested in music, a visit to Beverley Minster is a must (apart from being one of the most beautiful ecclesiastical buildings in Europe) - the collection of carvings of medieval instruments is amazing. Also look out for the foliate heads and my favourite: a woman's head on the body of a pig, pissing copiously backwards.

Ask one of the lovely lady guides to show you the file with photos and names of the instruments and also to point out the carving in the nave of the angel playing a shawm with the head of another angel above it with a grimacing face covering its ears. I reckon the people who carved these figures were having a whale of a time.

Oh, and lunch at the Green Dragon is also a must!

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 05:00 AM

"from the spandrel musicians to the celebrated misericords"

Unfortunately, the misericords (which were carved aroound 1550, I think) are now so fragile that they can only be inspected if accompanied by a churchwarden.

Link to Beverley Minster:

http://www.beverleyminster.org/

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: Black belt caterpillar wrestler
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 07:16 AM

And then after the Cathedrals there are all the Abbeys to visit, then the Castles.

I have an interesting book from the 1930s published by the Great Western Railway which details the English Castles (perhaps the Welsh ones as well, I'm not sure). The GWR were very good at raising tourist's interest in the places that could be reached by rail.

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 07:59 AM

Sorry about that, it's the Foliate Heads that are in the spandrels in between the musicians - a fine array in both respects. Looking forward to getting back there later in the year with a better camera - St Mary's in Beverley is well worth a visit too, inside and out.

Given the amount of skill, time & money involved, it seems unlikely that such carvings were the whim of the craftman's fantasy as seems to be a common misunderstanding these days with respect of the nature & function of vernacular (or folk) imagery in a medieval eccliastical context. I think this arises from a very modern view of the sort of organisation the medieval church was, or the extent to which its puritanical austerity exceded an awareness of the foibles of broader humanity, which was, after all, its ultimate cause. In such traditions as the Feast of the Ass (Asinaria Festa), the imagery of the Luttrell & Macclesfield Psalters and the songs of the Codex Buranus (Carmina Burana) and Cantigas de Santa Maria it's plain that such playful imagery is far from anomalous in an eccliastical context and that it serves a broader moral & didactic purpose. This isn't to say the masons & woodcarvers didn't have a whale of a time, but they were doing so with explicit instruction from the clerics who were balling with the best of them - but balling with spiritual, economic and political purpose that might seem a little strange to us today.

Anyway, here's one of the Beverley Minster musicians I took the last time I was there (August 2009) playing a double-pipe & tabor. Seems odd that the sculptor has gone to great lengths to show us that the tabor has a snare, but neglects to give the pipes finger holes, unless they were straight whistles without holes played by overblowing open harmonics, which could sound interesting given than one of the pipes is wider than the other. This isn't to say all such carving is absolutely figurative, but the snare is a bit of a giveaway!

Beverley Musician

Sedayne

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 08:05 AM

I have an interesting book from the 1930s published by the Great Western Railway which details the English Castles

They did a one on Cathedrals too. In fact, there are several copies in the Carnforth Bookshop right now.

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 08:46 AM

Suibhne, I understand the context of the carvings - I just had this image of the masons using the faces of each other or people they knew, especially those on the north (activities that will send you to hell) wall - "See this 'ere with the big tits, John, this is your missus, this is." "Well, this is you with your bloody big conk and your fat belly."

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 09:38 AM

You're absolutely right, of course; and I reckon many of the Foliate Heads in particular are humourous caricatures of particular individuals - something I explore in an article I wrote for Stirrings last year, and which is featured in the current Company of the Green Man Newsletter which can read HERE (PDF). The humour and humanity of the carvings are intergral to their context - rather than being the masons & woodcarvers poking fun at their employers, or sneeking ancient pagan Oaken Myths into the churches to subvert their teachings, notions which are still current and indeed actively promoted in certain cathedrals and churches.

I remember a scenario on those old documentaries about Zanskar way back in the - when? 70s? 80s? One of which featured a group of Tibetan Buddhist monks constructing a huge and mathematically exacting mandala using coloured sand, talking in hushed tones as they went about their sacred business. Then they played a translation of what the monks were saying - far from mystic incantation, the talk was the familiar human chit chat and bickering of workmen the world over, thus making the strange very familiar indeed!

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: theleveller
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 10:34 AM

Excellent article, Suibhne. I've only had time to give it a quick scan at the moment but I take your point - especially as many heads are prominently displayed.

Just taking the setting of my perennial wanderings and fumblings (I hesitate to call it research) - the area around Rudston on the Yorkshire Wolds (reputedly one of the oldest inhabited villages in England). Although there are foliate heads in/on the 12thC church that stands next to the great Neolithic monolith, nothing resembling it has (to my limited knowledge, at least) ever been unearthed in the surrounding 'sacred' landscape which spans the Mesolithic, Neolithic, Bronze Age, Celtic and Roman periods. I do, however, expect that they could be a continuation of the death/rebirth scenario that is a common theme of beliefs in all these periods and which may be why (pre Synod of Whitby) Christianity was accepted so readily. I've just finished reading Mike Williams' Prehistoric Belief, which is enlightening on this subject.

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: nager
Date: 25 Feb 11 - 03:56 PM

We have a beautiful framed photo of Salisbury Cathedral on our wall at home here in Oz.. took it about 10 years ago on a cycle tour through the UK. Salisbury is a small, lovely city and just a few kms from Stonehenge. The Salisbury YHA is a great place to stay too. Some excelent villages in the district too, if you travel on the quiet roads.

Subject: RE: Salisbury Cathedral
From: LadyJean
Date: 26 Feb 11 - 12:38 AM

I LOVED Salisbury Cathedral. I loved the way it turns pink when the sun sets. I loved the carvings. I loved the beautiful little town. I liked seeing the Salisbury Giant in the museum, with hob nob the hobby horse. The Giant inspired me to make a giant puppet. (He carries a puppet boar's head. I stand inside, one hand works the man's head, the other work's the boar's. They sing the Boar's Head Carol, of course.)

I was in Salisbury for bell ringers practice night, and got to hear all the churches in town ring their changes. That was lovely.

If you find yourself in Winchester Cathedral, be sure to have 10p to see the frescoes. (I didn't have it, and missed them.) Be sure not to miss Jane Austen's tomb.

Oh, I Salisbury, there was a group of women working on an embroidery for the church. I asked one of them if they would become Christian Martyrs for working on it, since I've done gold couching and know how much work it is. The lady said she didn't know, "But I quite like that idea."