Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent

Subject: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 06:31 AM

You know about Godwin's Law ~~ "Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies) is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990 which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches" - Wikipedia.

Its truth is frequently to be observed on this forum.

Now ~ what we Catters need is an analogue, replacing "Nazis or Hitler" with "Louis Armstrong's Horse".


Thus "The longer a Mudcat thread continues, the probability of a reference to Louis Armstrong's Horse draws ever nearer."

Is to be known as MtheGM's Law, as I have just postulated it? Or has anyone a better name to suggest?

I shall be quite happy either way.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: Silas
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 06:56 AM

You could call it Blackies or Bonzos law - you know as soon as they appear the thread is pretty well fucked.

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 07:07 AM

Why not just Armstrong's Law? His original saying is clever and it would pay some recognition to a great musician.

I think we should also postulate the Mudcat Theorum, i.e. that the length of time spent in online forums is in inverse proportion to the amount of work done.

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 07:14 AM

Can't feel "Armstrong's Law" would be right, Bonnie, because it is a saying of his that is the subject of the Law ~~ so would it not be a bit like calling "Godwin's Law" 'Hitler's Law'? {I mean no comparison between the two men named, of course, other than the fact that they are those named in the Laws concerned, so that to name it after them would be IMO confusing. I cannot think otherwise of two men less similar than Hitler & Armstrong!}

As to your additional point btw ~~ I am well retired so can spend as much time as I like on here without detriment to other obligations.

~M~

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: Bonnie Shaljean
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 07:28 AM

I know... thought of that too.. but I based it on the fact that it's on an actual quote of Armstrong, whereas there's no direct input from AH. But, I do see your logic.

You don't want to just use the GM bit of your name, do you? Has a nice rhythmic swing to it. If you then put it with Godwin ("Godwin, G-- and M---) it sounds like a firm of solicitors, a nice resonance with the Law bit.

Rats, I'm living up to the theorum and I DO have work to do! Byeeeeeeee...

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:14 AM

But I don't think Godwin is at all involved here. He is merely the analogue on which I based this one. Oddly, though, my first wife's maiden name was Godwin; but I don't think the Law guy any relation; tho both the Dukes of Westminster [the Grosvenors - tho illegitimately 4 or so generations back] & Louis B Mayer, tho spelt slighly differently, my 1st cousin twice removed {i.e. my paternal grandfather's 1st cousin}, were.

Still, GM's Law would be fine if that is what you feel appropriate. Thank you Bonnie.

Any other suggestions?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: Reinhard
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:26 AM

@MTheGM: I'm probably a pedant but you misquoted Godwin's Law from Wikipedia. "approach" needs a value to be, er, approached. So it must be "... the probabilty ... approaches 1". Probabilty is a value between 0 and 1 with 1 meaning absolute certainty of the event happening.

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:32 AM

Reinhard ~~ I copied & pasted the first part of Wiki's opening para: here it is in full

"Godwin's law (also known as Godwin's Rule of Nazi Analogies or Godwin's Law of Nazi Analogies)[1][2] is a humorous observation made by Mike Godwin in 1990[2] which has become an Internet adage. It states: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."[3][2] In other words, Godwin put forth the hyperbolic observation that, given enough time, in any online discussion—regardless of topic or scope— someone inevitably criticizes some point made in the discussion by comparing it to beliefs held by Hitler and the Nazis."

Ah, see what you mean: I didn't hilite quite enuff so the '1' got missed off. Thank you for putting this right.

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:39 AM

Nows the time to be a smartie
Come and join the Nazi Party!

(from The Producers)

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:41 AM

No thanks, Al. But what your point, precisely?

Best ~M~

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:45 AM

Numeralogically 1+9+5+4=19. 1+9=10. 1+0=1. The rule of one.

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 08:46 AM

Another feature herabouts? As the number of posts passes 10 (?) the chance of personal unpleasantness increases siignificantly

L in C#

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: GUEST,glueman
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 09:06 AM

You may well be right Les, but one has to ask why? I think there may be something in folk's DNA that is essentially oppositional and any thread with consensus is anathema to the traditional sensibility. Equilibrium, in folk terms, requires an eternal enemy to define it and give it vitality. 'The definition' is the perfect vehicle for this martial attitude, being both precise and somewhat vague, allowing the individual to project any personal mores, the Face of Garbo on which to write dreams.

For someone like me'sen who favours music of the tradition but sees 1954 as a bolt on accessory, a go-faster body kit on a venerable old car, it can seem that I'm not liking it in the proper way, my love being that of Penelope's suitors, a venal thing whereas in fact it is the Real Thing.

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 11:30 AM

Strongly held and well argued points with evidence is most welcome. I guess it's a bit like the way people behave in cars - the personal contact is missing

L in C#

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 12:14 PM

My point is that as sellars and yeatman said in 1966 and all that, history is full of 'bad things'.

Hitler was a 'bad thing'. In fact he was something of a benchmark in the history of 'bad things'.

That's why we all refer to him.

if you don't want to be compared to him, don't strut around going, 'For you Tommy zee var is over! You are are not echt volksinger! You are a spy - dressed in your Arran svetter and mit ein pewter beer mug dangling vrom your vaist...!'

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: Will Fly
Date: 27 Mar 11 - 12:18 PM

I think you should call it Sod's Law and be done with it.

As in, "Not that sodding horse again!"

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 12:56 AM

Good idea, Will ~~ but somehow I have a feeling that that one might have been bagsied already.

~M~

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 07:59 AM

The longer a Mudcat thread goes on the more likely someone will post that Ewan MacColl's real name is Jimmy Miller.

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: treewind
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 08:15 AM

What is folk anyway?

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 11:45 AM

Would somebody please explain what "Louis Armstrong's horse" is all about?

Where I come from, Louis Armstrong is best known for recording "It's a Wonderful World." By the way, that's a good song for fretted dulcimer.

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 01:10 PM

Where I come from, Louis Armstrong is best known for recording "West End Blues" - with one of the greatest trumpet intros in the history of jazz.

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: GUEST,Songbob
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 01:25 PM

Amazing! I seem to be the one to actually invoke GM's law:

As Louis Armstrong said, "All music is folk music! I never heard no horse sing!"

There, now we can go back to discussing some of the even greater truths of musical life.

Bob Clayton

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: maggi
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 01:43 PM

Sorry, MtheGM, the uk.music.folk folk got there a long time before you.

First draft of the umf faq, posted Nov 25 2001.

http://groups.google.com/group/uk.music.folk/browse_thread/thread/1414a4edab32599/f0cb981d3bdb271a?hl=en&ie=UTF-8&oe=utf-8&q=uk.

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: maggi
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 01:44 PM

The current umf FAQ

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 01:46 PM

Sorry, maggi; that link didn't seem to take to anything the remotest bit relevant.

~M~

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 02:03 PM

Oh, yes, the second one did. But I can't quite see where you think it makes the precise point I make in this thread, of the adaptation to be made from Godwin's Hitler to Satch's horse.

~M~

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 02:56 PM

Hitler inevitably is mentioned if a newsgroup thread goes on long enough. "Horse alert" or something similar inevitably is mentioned if a music discussion goes on long enough. In other words "what is folk" becomes the topic. The one major difference is that the horse may actually show up a lot faster than Hitler.

Godwin's Law probably still works for non music, but some law about Some Offended Nitwit Bringing Up Singing Horses works for music. It's perfect, but MtheGM asked for a name.

I don't suppose SONBUSH will stick.

(...and now I've managed to get "some offended nitwit" stuck in my head to the tune of "some enchanted evening.")

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 28 Mar 11 - 05:16 PM

I don't suppose it will either, Jeri, because too much explication of the nice acronym would probably have to be dredged up each time. But many thanks for such an imaginative suggestion ~~ & dammit I'm stuck in S Pacific too...

~M~

♫ you may see a nitwit across a crowded folk club♪♬♩

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 05:39 AM

Damn you Jeri, I only READ IT ONCE... it's catching....

Subject: RE: Name wanted for our 'Godwin' equivalent
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 29 Mar 11 - 06:27 AM

I think its the show trials that get to me. After reading reading Jim Carrol's comments I sometimes feel like I've been accused of trying to burn down the Cecil Sharp Chancellry, cos i like Donovan songs.

I do resent being told that I don't understand and don't like folk music.

I'm sorry to Jim and his merry cohorts, but we really are all in the same folkmusic bathtub. If you find someone else's toe up your bum - i'm afraid that's just the crowded conditions we live in.

I think if you played Donovan to the mythical man in the street - he'd go........'ah! that's folkmusic'

If you played him Sam Larner or Joe Heaney - he'd go 'ah! that's a bloke singing on his own. No guitar....not really folkmusic then, is it?   Doesn't sound like it.'

Anyway, I'm not getting out of the bathtub first, so there!