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Lyr Req: English and irish song

GUEST 10 Apr 11 - 10:35 PM
MartinRyan 11 Apr 11 - 02:49 AM
MartinRyan 11 Apr 11 - 02:58 AM
Dave Hanson 11 Apr 11 - 03:30 AM
GUEST,cg 11 Apr 11 - 05:12 AM
MartinRyan 11 Apr 11 - 05:24 AM
Sarah McQuaid 11 Apr 11 - 11:29 AM
Mysha 11 Apr 11 - 06:58 PM
Jim Carroll 12 Apr 11 - 05:08 AM
Jim Dixon 13 Apr 11 - 06:50 AM
Bo 13 Apr 11 - 08:31 AM
maple_leaf_boy 13 Apr 11 - 03:59 PM
GUEST,folkiedave 13 Apr 11 - 04:03 PM
Bob Bolton 13 Apr 11 - 06:53 PM
MartinRyan 14 Apr 11 - 02:50 AM
Thompson 14 Apr 11 - 12:45 PM
GUEST,Seonaid 14 Apr 11 - 03:09 PM
Suegorgeous 14 Apr 11 - 07:08 PM
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Subject: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Apr 11 - 10:35 PM

There was a song/poem i heard a while back that consisted of lyrics that constantly alternated between english and irish. unfortunately i cant remember any of the lyrics but it was introduced as the english and irish song.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: MartinRyan
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 02:49 AM

They're known as "macaronic songs". There's a few of them - I'll post some links to ones on this forum later.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: MartinRyan
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 02:58 AM

Click here for the main thread on macaronic songs. Even if you don't recognise the one you're looking for, it may prompt a memory of a line or two...

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 03:30 AM

Maybe the very well known ' Preab San Ol ' by The Dubliners, English verses sung by Luke Kelly and Irish verses by Ciaron Bourke, both sadly now dead.

Dave H


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: GUEST,cg
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 05:12 AM

OK - I have to ask - why 'macaronic'?


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: MartinRyan
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 05:24 AM

Two strands weaving through each other - like macaroni! Quite an old term originally applied to mixtures of good Latin and bad...

Wikipedia entery has some details - not sure how reliable.

In Ireland the term is mainly used to cover songs which mix Irish and English. A purist will exclude songs which simply alternate translations betweeen the two languages in whichever direction.

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: Sarah McQuaid
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 11:29 AM

I recorded a macaronic song on my first album - "Táim cortha ó bheith im' aonar im' luí". Here are my notes on the track, plus the lyrics:

Infinite thanks to Iarla Ó Lionáird for teaching me this song and for patiently coaching me through the Irish pronunciation. Thanks also to Dáibhí Ó Cróinín, the nephew of the great sean-nós singer Elisabeth Cronin (from whom Iarla learned the song) for supplying me with his own transcription of the lyrics, which helped considerably. Dáibhí is working on a collection of Bess Cronin's songs that should be an invaluable reference for traditional singers – I hope it comes out soon! The song is in macaronic form – each verse in Irish is followed by the same verse roughly translated into English. There are a couple of interesting differences – notably, in the Irish version the woman is 29 years old and tired of being left on the shelf, whereas in the English translation she's only 19. Dáibhí points out that a similar song appears in Leslie Shepard's The Broadside Ballad under the name 'Weary of Tumbling Alone', so it's conceivable that the English version came first.

lyrics

Tráthnóinín déanach 's mé dul a' bhálcaoreacht
'Sea do dhearcas an spéirbhean a' caoi
Airiú, d'fhiosraíosa féin di - gur labhair sí a scéal liom
Táim cortha ó bheith im' aonar im' luí, im luí
Táim cortha ó bheith im' aonar im' luí

One evening of late as I carelessly strayed
I espied a fair maid in deep mourn
I asked her the matter, she quickly made answer
I am weary from laying alone, alone
I am weary from laying alone

A's a mhúirnín donn dílis, suigh anso taobh liom
Agus aithris dom scéala ar t'aois
A cúig a's a sé a's a' sárú dhá naoi
A's táim cortha ó bheith im' aonar im' luí, im luí
Táim chomh cortha ó bheith im' aonar im' luí

My comely young damsel, sit down here 'longside me
And tell me the years that have flown
Oh it's seven and one and eleven years long
That I'm weary from laying alone, alone
That I'm weary from laying alone

Dá bhfaighinnse ógánach éigin do thógfadh gan spré mé
A's go mbeinnse 'ge féinig mar mhnaoi
Ní chéilfinnse ar éinne é 's do neosfainn don saol é
Go bhfuilim cortha ó bheith im' aonar im' luí, im luí
Go bhfuilim cortha ó bheith im' aonar im' luí

If I'd a comely young man would take me without fortune
And make me a wife of his own
For the truth is I'll say is I'll die in despair
If I lie any longer alone, alone
If I lie any longer alone

Tá róisín breá néata sa gháirdín seo taobh linne
Á, baineam a's déanam é fhí
Mar is ró-ghearr 'na dhiaidh san go mbeadh sé ró-thraochta
Leis a naoi bhíodh ná h-aonar na luí, na luí
Leis a naoi bhíodh ná h-aonar na luí

There's a neat sweet little flower in this garden 'longside us
Take it away, sure 'tis your own
For the flower it will fade, and so also will the maid
For she's weary from laying alone, alone
For she's weary from laying alone

credits

from When Two Lovers Meet, released 01 February 1997
Trad arr. S. McQuaid
Sarah – vocals

Sarah McQuaid
http://www.sarahmcquaid.com


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: Mysha
Date: 11 Apr 11 - 06:58 PM

Hi,

Personally, I would have said "spaghettic"; the macaroni types I know aren't all that weaving; too short.

(I did Twa Corbies / Twa Roeken, both for an English audience and a Frisian one. Both audiences were grateful that I sung a translation in between. (-:)

A macaronic song that seems rather popular lately, is Wind and Rain [/ ??], as sung by Julie Fowlis, a Twa Sisters version. Might this be what Anonymous Guest is thinking of?
YouTube.

Bye,
                                                                  Mysha


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 12 Apr 11 - 05:08 AM

"songs which simply alternate translations betweeen the two languages..."
When I asked Seamus Ennis why this happened with some Irish songs he told me that they were all so good that they were worth singing twice - !!!!
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: Jim Dixon
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 06:50 AM

Probably the most familiar macaronic song is the English Christmas carol ANGELS WE HAVE HEARD ON HIGH with its Latin refrain: "Gloria in excelsis Deo."


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: Bo
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 08:31 AM

Slightly off thread but: is this the origin of "Yankee Doodle, ... Stuck a feather in his cap and called him Macaroni". Him being a mix of two styles ?
Bo


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: maple_leaf_boy
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 03:59 PM

There's a version of "Brian Boru" using the macaronic form. It uses
Irish and Breton in the song.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 04:03 PM

In Dulci Jubilo also fits.


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: Bob Bolton
Date: 13 Apr 11 - 06:53 PM

G'day Mysha,

"Macaronic" has an older history than our modern pasta ... although it may refer to earler (longer) forms pf Italian pasta.

The Oxford Dictionary (my work desk Oxford Concise Australian Dictionary, 3rd ed.) defines the term then adds [earlier = of the nature of a jumble or medley modern Latin macaronicus from obsolete Italian macaronico, jocularly formed as MACARONI]

I'll have to wait till I'm near my home (CD) copy of the full OED to get a more detailed history and dating!

Regards,

Bob


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 02:50 AM

Hi Bob

Yeah - I'm aware of the tangled history of macaroni!

On another topic - you might see if you can help with the query on THIS THREAD

Regards


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: Thompson
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 12:45 PM

macaronic at Dictionary.com:

    1610s, form of verse consisting of vernacular words in a Latin context with Latin endings; applied loosely to verse in which two or more languages are jumbled together; from Mod.L. macaronicus (coined 1517 by Teofilo Folengo), from dialectal It. maccarone (see macaroni), in allusion to the mixture of words in the verse: "quoddam pulmentum farina, caseo, botiro compaginatum, grossum, rude, et rusticanum" [Folengo].


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: GUEST,Seonaid
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 03:09 PM

Actaully, the term really comes from the ancient Highland Clan MacAroneigh, who could never keep their languages straight when in their cups. (They are not to be confused with Clan MacAroon, who became famous for their cookies....)
Hmmmph, seriously, now...
One song I know is entirely in Gaelic except for the single English word "forever" in the chorus. Macaroni lite?
Slainte mhor!


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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: English and irish song
From: Suegorgeous
Date: 14 Apr 11 - 07:08 PM

Siul a ruin is one.


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