BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger

Subject: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: saulgoldie
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 11:18 AM

Given many of the outrageous things he has done, he can only be considered a serious candidate by the most cynical or uninformed. He is first, last, and always only a self-promoter. Nevertheless, his repeating of the ridiculous and long-discredited "birther" talk is nothing less than hate-mongering.

The promoters of the idea that Obama was not "born in the USA" have just never accepted the reality of a non-white president. The root of such talk, if you "look under the hood" is patently racist. And all it does is bring down the level of discourse and distract us from real issues.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Penny S.
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 11:34 AM

I noticed the coverage in Doonesbury in the Guardian over here - including Sarah Palin bringing up something about Obama's grandmother which was meaningless to me.

Penny

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: frogprince
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 11:53 AM

I quite accidentally caught a few minutes of Trump live a few days ago. He was holding forth to the effect that we have "won" the country of Afghanistan, are therefore entitled to take its oil, and definitely should do so. I've never been able to stomach him, but had never quite grasped just how politically and ethically clueless he can be.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,999
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 12:03 PM

When a dog pisses on a hydrant it`s not committing an act of vandalism. It`s simply being a dog.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Rapparee
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 12:05 PM

I was unaware that a) we were in war of conquest and b) there WAS any oil in Afghanistan.

He's a fool and an idiot who will force even more fragmentation of the conservative right...which will be good for the Democrats and very bad for the country, at least for a while, as checks and balances ARE needed.

Come the Revolution I'm shooting at both sides.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Alan Whittle
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 12:06 PM

Thank Goodness! i thought it was about Judd Trump - England's newest snooker superstar.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 12:07 PM

And when Trump em-"barks" on a campaign, you can be sure the real goal is $$$$$$

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: gnu
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 12:10 PM

Trump... what a hump.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Chongo Chimp
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 01:04 PM

There, see? I told ya what to do. Vote for me next time. I am smart enough to know that there is no oil in Afghanistan and that we got no business bein' there even if there was. Trump is a chump. I am a chimp. The choice is obvious.

- Chongo

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 01:06 PM

Is this he of the 'WHATEVER you do, DON'T look at his HAIR!" Trump?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: gnu
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 01:17 PM

Hey! That's a cheap shot about his hair. Thinks of the squirrels.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 01:17 PM

If he thinks he can fool us with his combover - what else do you think he'll try to pull over on us??

And about "birthers". IF they were able to prove Obama was not an American by birth { and they can't } then what? Are these folks thinking McCain is going to made President? Because I'm guessing most "birthers" would have a cow if Joe Biden stepped into the office.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Bill D
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 04:21 PM

Hey..I'm all FOR him running and getting the nomination!

Dream Republican ticket for Democrats- Trump & Palin... well, maybe Trump & "Not a witch" O'Donnell

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: michaelr
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 04:28 PM

Be afraid. Be very afraid. I vividly remember the reactions here in California when Arnold Schwarzenegger announced he was running for goobernator. Everyone was laughing and saying "he'll never get elected."

Next thing you know...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: josepp
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 05:21 PM

The problem with the Republicans is that no matter who gets the nomination, no matter how insightful and intelligent he or she may be (although I certainly haven't seen many), they can't get the nomination without talking like a total rightwing kook because that is who runs the republican party. If you think abortion is a choice or that creationism is not science--no matter how conservative you are, you CANNOT get the nod. They simply will not let you represent the party.

You have to talk like a nut and once you do that, the largest part of the electorate writes you off. The GOP have always gotten by on their rhetoric which resonates with the majority of (read as "white") Americans and always managed to get a stuffed shirt in there to personify that rhetoric. Now they all they have is extremist drivel being put forth by candidates who either clearly don't really believe in it--or worse--believe in it heart and soul. Can't get elected that way.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 05:37 PM

Now they all they have is extremist drivel being put forth by candidates who either clearly don't really believe in it--or worse--believe in it heart and soul. Can't get elected that way.

Can't get elected? How much would you like to wager? You obviously have no faith in the American Boobocracy.

(suggestion: Wisconsin)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 05:55 PM

It was reported on NPR the other day that 50% of the members of the Republican party in Iowa actually do not believe Obama was born in this country.

Saul, you are spot on in calling it racism; that is exactly what is behind the birther and other issues. They can't stomach the idea of even a mixed race person in the White House, but dare not be blatant about their racism, yet.

As to Trump, I think boycotting the show, the advertisers, the stars who show up on it, and let them know WHY you are doing so would have an effect. He is despicable much like Rupert Murdoch, in his own ways.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 06:23 PM

I would be scared to death if they ran Palin/O'Donnell because I NEVER underestimate the ignorance AND stupidity of the American public...........


Spaw

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Joe_F
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 06:25 PM

He's so rich, he thinks he must be smart. Such people are not confined to the Republican Party.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: frogprince
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 06:43 PM

To drop back a bit: I meant to say Iraq, not Afghanistan.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 06:56 PM

..the ignorance AND stupidity of the American public


You Betcha, Spaw! You, Me - PLUS Mark Twain, H.L. Mencken, and Kurt Vonnegut.

Guess we're in pretty good company.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: josepp
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 07:16 PM

Can't hang around, I used up my yearly quota of posting on political threads.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Charley Noble
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 09:26 PM

"Be afraid. Be very afraid."

Reagan got elected. Nixon got elected. Hell, George W. Bush got to be President and he wasn't even elected!

It seems to me that the majority of Republicans might just jump on board the Trump train.

Will the majority of Independents do the same, that is the question?

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ed T
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 09:35 PM

Donald_Trump_audio_clips

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 10:00 PM

I can't believe he will run. Why would he five out the tax info that he hasn't paid any? Does he really think that degree of 'cleverness' would get him elected?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ebbie
Date: 23 Apr 11 - 10:17 PM

Four bankruptcies, three divorces, the birther belief, the hair. It don't look good for the Donald.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: katlaughing
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 06:47 PM

I see Seinfeld has cancelled an appearance at one of Trump's "dos" and they've been having it out, verbally. Trump sounds like a petulant spoiled brat. Robert De Niro has also spoken out against him. I hope the trend continues.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: michaelr
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 09:43 PM

Why would he five out the tax info that he hasn't paid any?

I don't understand that sentence.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 10:20 PM

A fair number of people equate the skills needed for business success with the skills needed for governmental success. Well, they aren't necessarily the same. A successful business career may indicate possession of the types of skills required for governmental service, but it may not. Some management styles, especially those of the "high risk, high reward" type, may work in the business world, but they have no place in government. If a business fails because of risky management decisions, one can declare bankruptcy and start over again. If a nation fails because of risky management decisions, there's no bankruptcy court to bail it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 11:04 PM

"Why would he five out the tax info that he hasn't paid any?"

Sorry typo ... "give"...

Understanding typos: if you look at the keyboard, you may notice that many 'gibberish word typos' can often bne decoded by lookiung at what keys are nearvy ...see... "nearby" ... oh, and "bne" .... added or omitted letters ....

Hope that helfs... then there's the typos caused by thinking oe word and typing another ....

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies
Date: 24 Apr 11 - 11:58 PM

Karl Rove calls Trump the "joke candidate".

If Rove says that, that says a lot about Trump's chances.

Look, if we have any sense, we should want as bloody primaries as can be arranged on the Republican side.    The more candidates stay in the race, the more money they waste and--we can hope--the more bitterness is aroused in the supporters of the eventually unsuccessful candidates.   Who may then stay home rather than support the candidate who beat their choice.

The irony of this is that, had Trump not just shot himself in the foot but actually blew the foot off by saluting the "birther" flag, he would have been a strong potential candidate.

But he has sealed his fate with this monumentally stupid maneuver.   Even Michelle Bachmann- no intellectual giant--is backing away from the "birthers".

And we should be happy he has killed his own candidacy so effectively.    Now we should hope he doesn't realize this, and runs anyway--forcing the other Republicans to waste untold sums and create lots of bitterness in the GOP in defeating him.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Deckman
Date: 25 Apr 11 - 12:12 AM

Y A W N !

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 25 Apr 11 - 11:46 AM

why am I waiting for Donuel to make a Ronald McDonald Trump composite?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 11 - 12:23 PM

Gosh, what fun! ;-D The Mudcat diehard political wranglers haven't enjoyed themselves this much in quite some time. Sarah Palin served marvelously for awhile as a focus for their bile, hatred, and ridicule but that finally started getting "old"...(sigh)...and it began to lose its entertainment value. It just didn't satisfy like it once had.

Thank God that Donald Trump has stepped up and provided a new and juicy target for us all to excercise our righteous outrage and burning frustrations upon! Get out the knives, folks, sharpen those poison pens, and tear Mr Trump into tiny little pieces. Yeah! Yeah! Yeah! Gosh, what fun!

Or to put it more briefly, as Deckman said...

**** Y A W N ! ****

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Stringsinger
Date: 25 Apr 11 - 12:53 PM

And here his is folks, Donald T. Rump. He's fired!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Wesley S
Date: 25 Apr 11 - 01:23 PM

Please Little Hawk - you know how upset we Americans get when we think that someone up in Canada doesn't like the way we do things down here.


Yawn yourself....

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Little Hawk
Date: 25 Apr 11 - 01:35 PM

Right with ya there, Wesley... ;-D Check this out:

------------------------------

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ebbie
Date: 25 Apr 11 - 11:15 PM

Little Hawk, what you say smacks of the kind of thing that makes *me* yawn. Sometimes your attitude bespeaks an intoloerance for other people's nonsense whilst being overly lenient where yours is concerned.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 12:23 AM

Yes, I'm much like the rest of humanity in that respect, Ebbie. We all have some considerable intolerance for other people's nonsense while being quite lenient about our own. I admit that I too have sinned in that respect!

What now? ;-) Maybe we could have a yawn-off and see who wins?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 07:29 AM

Trump's proposed candidacy is neither grounds for "YAWN" nor for panic.   It's actually a great thing for President Obama--for the reason I cited.   Consider what Ralph Nader did for GWB.    But nuance in politics is often lost on some Mudcatters, it seems.


Just yesterday I ran across two separate columns attacking Trump in the free conservative rag you can get on the DC subway.

One dealt with his sordid business style--exploiting the "eminent domain" idea for his own gain--with the collusion of city governments.    Among other things he is a stalwart defender of the ""Kelo" decision, which is anathema to lots of conservatives.

The other one complained about how he is tarnishing the Republican "brand" by his embrace of the crackpot "birther" theory.

There are a huge number of Republicans who want nothing to do with his supposed candidacy and wish he would zip his lip on politics.   Or just disappear, leaving his money behind for a reasonable person (from their perspective) to use.

Now, as I said, we should hope he does not realize this and runs anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Charley Noble
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 09:40 AM

Trump is now demanding to see Obama's college grades, implying that they were insufficient for getting him into Harvard Law School without extra help (affirmative action or special favors?).

Obama seems to have done quite well at Harvard but I suppose that makes him a candidate for more "special favors."

Hopefully the Trump's dealings from the bottom of the deck will be recognized for what they are, racist innuendo. Of course in this country that might just win him the nomination and maybe the election.

Charley Noble

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 09:41 AM

tarnishing the Republican "brand" by his embrace of the crackpot "birther" theory.

Funny- not all that long ago the Repubs wholeheartedly embraced tie "Birther" assholes when they thought it would get them votes.

And they still embrace the TeaBaggers and other crackpot assholes like Limbaugh, Beck, Scott Walker, Hucksterbee and all the rest.

Not much Trump or anyone else could do now to further "Tarnish The Republican Brand".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: katlaughing
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 12:33 PM

Even Fox Business News says it is all a BIG PUBLICITY STUNT which has garnered him tons of free advertising and that's probably the only reason he's doing this.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Little Hawk
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 01:25 PM

Too bad Shatner is Canadian...or he could try the same gambit.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Wesley S
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 02:43 PM

Do we have PROOF he is Canadian?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Bill D
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 04:00 PM

about 'birtherism' and polls which show large % of Republicans don't 'believe' Obama is a citizen.....

I really doubt there are anywhere near the stated percentages who really believe that. There are that many who answer POLLS that way, but there is just a general attitude in 'some' circles of saying anything that casts ANY doubt on Obama or his life or ideas or accomplishments. If he walked on water and cured the lame, they'd claim he didn't cure acne.

...and some are just stupid & listen to each other as sources...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: John P
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 05:48 PM

If he walked on water and cured the lame, they'd claim he didn't cure acne.

And also that he was mocking Jesus . . .

The sad fact is that the Republicans, more than any others, idolize people who are famous mostly for telling lies. Death panels, birth certificates, socialism, etc. The scary part is that a LOT of people don't seem to mind. My ex-parents-in-law are very educated, smart, nice, golden-hearted people who also think Sarah Palin is a breath of fresh air who says it like it is and represents normal people.

Since George W. Bush could get elected for a second term, any crazy and frightening thing could happen.

Little Hawk -- you are boring and childish when you carp at other people for being interested in a conversation. Why do you do it? I've heard you say many times that people get judged by their actions. It's true. Think about it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 26 Apr 11 - 05:53 PM

This should give all sane people a laugh:

http://ac360.blogs.cnn.com/2011/04/25/trump-claims-obama-birth-certificate-missing/

After CNN proved once again that the certificate is genuine, Trump revealed that it's disappeared! Vanished! Gone! An anonymous tipster just told him this week!

The guy's obviously working for the Dems. He'll reveal himself as soon as he gets the GOP nomination.

There's *no* business like show business.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 01:07 AM

I have taken your words deeply to heart, John, and will wear a hair shirt for the rest of the week and flog myself viciously with a cat o' nine tails to do just penance for being so boring and childish. I may even join a nunnery....if they'll have me...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 03:32 AM

Hey man - not a nunnery .... agghhh ....

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 08:17 AM

In his never-ending search for truth, Trump now wonders aloud how Obama could have gotten into Columbia and Harvard if he was - as he admits - only an average pupil in high school.

Why hasn't Obama released his college transcripts? Who - exactly - arranged for him to get into those two extraordinarily prestigious Ivy League schools?

Where are the potentially damning transcripts? What do they show? Who is Obama really?

There is no business *but* show business.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 08:28 AM

"and flog myself viciously with a cat o' nine tails"

Usually, I have to pay for that!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 08:30 AM

And regarding Donnie Trump: Lighten up on the guy. He looks like shit, and I figure he's due for a triple A real soon.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:12 AM

Incidentally, the White House has finally released Obama's birth certificate. I got two bucks says the Republicans claim it's a clever forgery. Any takers?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:24 AM

Google "Daily Beast" + "Trump's New Obama Conspiracy Theory" + "April 26"

That appears to tell the whole story.

Beware, however. It could be a reverse, double-disinformation plant.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:25 AM

If "April 26" doesn't work, try "Apr 26."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:28 AM

NOT the old "reverse, double-disinformation plant". This is getting really strange.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:38 AM

Ooh! Ooh! Trump's on CNN now taking credit ("I'm very proud of myself!") and "hoping" that the released certificate is "real."

He's going to "examine it closely." But he hopes he's finally gotten America back on track.

But what about that misspelled name on Elvis's grave...?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,999
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:54 AM

Trump has saved America.

TRUMP for Official Court Jester.

Let's start his campaign right here right now, Lighter.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 10:46 AM

He's certainly got what it takes.

Meanwhile, CNN reports that 43% of registered Republicans say that Obama "probably or definitely was not born in the United States."

And perhaps you remember this poll from last year:

a href="http://www.livescience.com/8160-quarter-republicans-obama-anti-christ.html">http://www.livescience.com/8160-quarter-republicans-obama-anti-christ.html

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 11:20 AM

I have rich friends who could not get their kids into Harvard. How could a bad student like Obama get into Harvard????

Donald Trump

_________________________________


I am positive that all of these conspiracy theories about Obama not being a legitimate American will all go away the day Barak Obama is no longer black.


Just in case you want to know how the birther thing got started it was a proactive response by the McCain campaign.
It is a fact that John Mc Cain was born in the country of Panama. The typical Republican political attack is to accuse the opponent of the thing that that "your guy" is actually guilty of. If you do that first then the opponent will be on the defensive and the guilt of your guy will look like a desperate attempt by the opposision to deflect the accusations against them. ergo, Obama was not born in the USA. SInce then it all got folded into defining Obama as a foreign African Muslim who honed his Islamic allegience in Indonesia.

Since then the author of the swift boat attacks and fraudulent accusations, that were very succesful in turning a man who served his country in the miitary into a hated traitor by way of lies, has a new book...

. This author has a book coming out in two weeks that already is the leading book on Amazon and making noise on the NEw York TImes best seller list. IT is Where is the Birth Certificate !


Since Donald Trump has declared victory over forcing the PResident into show a long form document. The long form presented today is not the official document of LIve birth which is the only document that Hawaii recogizes for all official business. Hawaii has a law that does not permit public release of the long form for reasons of family privacy in case there are different parents on that form and not the married parents.

When Obama said that we do not have tome to be distracted by side shows and Carnival Barkers, I heard a gasp in the press room. I guess sme people were actually shocked that he called Trump a carnival Barker by implication. go figure.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 11:25 AM

TrumPHuckbee for prez

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 11:32 AM

Regarding the apperaence of Trump.

I see all the tell tale signs of steroid use for some underlying condition, be it arthritis or other condition which requires an anti inflammatory treatment.

The puffiness (pie faced) appearence of his face looks more like Pregnesone use rather than just being fat.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 11:46 AM

The nunnery has rejected my application! I am in deep despair.

I may consider appealing my case to the Mormons, but if they won't take me either, I fear the end may be near.

******

If you go to an internet forum that is inhabited mainly by rightwingers, you can find threads very much like this one, only they're about Obama instead of Trump or Palin. They have titles like: "Obama:Self-promoter & Socialist Traitor". It's not much point reading them, though, because they are so boring and childish. ;-) Just a bunch of people engaging in their emotional need for a daily fix of partisan hostility...sort of like a circle-jerk for the politically-minded. Politics and recreational outrage go together like a horse and carriage. ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: saulgoldie
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 12:06 PM

Don't despair, LH. I think this group would happily accept your membership:

http://www.venganza.org/


Yes, Trump for court jester. Hey, he pretty much is, already. Instead of ignoring him, perhaps just raucously laughing whenever his name or face appears will have the desired result of marginalizing him.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 12:09 PM

But maybe the "antichrist" poll was hidden-agenda disinformation too:

http://www.newsweek.com/blogs/the-gaggle/2010/03/26/obama-is-not-the-antichrist-and-nobody-really-thinks-he-is.html

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: saulgoldie
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 12:12 PM

This just in from "The Borowitz Report" which, by the way, I highly recommend to anyone who needs a different slant on things to keep from going over the edge.

From Andy:

Obama Reveals Unsuccessful Run for President of Kenya
Disqualified by U.S. Birth Certificate

WASHINGTON (The Borowitz Report) – In a stunning announcement that took even political insiders by surprise, President Barack Obama revealed today that he ran for President of Kenya in 2005 but was disqualified when a birth certificate surfaced showing he was born in the United States.

At a press conference at the White House, Mr. Obama spoke for the first time about his little-known unsuccessful foray into Kenyan politics: "Like every American boy or girl, I grew up with the dream of someday becoming President of Kenya."

But soon after he entered the race, political opponents began spreading rumors that he was not "a real Kenyan," the President said, and foiled his bid by disseminating copies of his authentic American birth certificate.

"I guess I didn't look into the rules closely enough before I ran," the President admitted. "I got caught up in the excitement of being President of Kenya and I guess I just got carried away."

Lisimba Ogongo, a Nairobi talk radio host who spearheaded the effort to unearth Mr. Obama's U.S. birth certificate, confirmed Mr. Obama's version of events today.

"I felt strongly that the people of Kenya deserved the truth," Mr. Ogongo said. "We were not about to elect a President of Kenya who was really a secret Hawaiian."

Elsewhere, Donald Trump found himself under renewed pressure to produce all of his authentic marriage certificates, believed to number in the thousands.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 12:18 PM

Incidentally, the White House has finally released Obama's birth certificate.

They released his birth certificate several years back; this was simply another version thereof.

Obama should have given the imbecile "birther" fu$kers the one-finger salute long ago. Accommodating certifiable idiots only encourages them & they'll invent some other bogus charge in place of the birth bullshit to plague the sentient with.

I dunno about Obama- he's a bit of a disappointment: Roll up & see The Amazing Ball-less Wonder.

Where the hell's Harry Truman whren we need him?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 12:33 PM

Hey, saul....that looks pretty appealing! Perhaps they will take me in. I need something to believe in, and that could be the ticket. Thanks, eh? ;-D

As Chongo has sagely pointed out on another thread, it doesn't matter a fig where someone was born! What matters is where he grew up and formed his basic beliefs, cultural framework, social ideas, philosophy, etc. Obama seems like an American to me. I don't give a tinker's damn if he was born in Kenya, Japan, or on the Moon. His basic state of mental being has been formed in the USA...and that's all that matters if he wants to qualify to serve in the government of the USA, as far as I can see.

There was a similar row about one of the early American presidents (Adams?) when people in the opposing party said he'd been born "across the line" in Canada!!!!!!!!!!! It went on and on. He had, in any case, lived his entire ensuing childhood and adult life in the USA, so whether he'd technically been born "across the line" in Canada or not was meaningless...nevertheless his enemies siezed on that and got considerable mileage out of it.

Childish and boring? You betcha! Hypocritical? In the extreme. People are not sincerely defending their Constitution when they trot out such accusations, they are simply out to damage a political enemy over any convenient excuse they can find.

Now in Trump's case...why not criticize his haircut and his complexion? Or his divorces? Go for the substantive stuff that really matters! ;-D

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: kendall
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 01:27 PM

Now will that shut up? I doubt it. They have to keep shoveling the dirt to insure that Obama gets defeated in 2012. Thats all they really want anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 01:48 PM

Of course that's all they want. And all most of their opponents want is to make sure that the Republican candidates never get elected.

Sort of like a sports event. All the attendees want is that their home team should win. If that doesn't happen, they complain all the livelong day to anyone who will listen. If it does happen, they celebrate. Modern politics is another giant exercise in marketing, just like a major league sports event, only even bigger and more costly. The public pays the very hefty ticket prices and attends the playoff games (elections). The politicians play the game. The winners of the game get to drink champagne and reign until the next playoff. The losers get to bitch about how "we was robbed".

Trump is not a player on Mudcat's home team nor is Palin. Obama is the captain of Mudcat's home team. Mudcat is very concerned what may happen at the next playoffs! (and so is the rest of the World, because this is the World's biggest and most dangerous game...)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Wesley S
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 02:28 PM

Trump says he is "very proud" that he was able to get the president to release his birth certificate. The film is available if you can stand his preening an boasting:


Film here

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: saulgoldie
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 02:52 PM

Uh-oh. Now he is going to have to come up with actual *issues*! Well, as Lawrence O'Donnell keeps saying, it'll be over on May 16, when NBC announces the new season of whatever stupid show he does.

In the mean time, he has been doing very well as "designated decoy" for the rest of the Repubs. And oncet he is gone, the rest of them will look much better by comparison.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 02:55 PM

I watched about a minute of that, Wesley. Christ, talk about boring! Yikes. That was worse than listening to Anne Murray's Christmas Album.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: kendall
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 03:02 PM

Politics is important LH. Sports are not.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 03:04 PM

Dante.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 04:16 PM

Borowitz is probably Saul's pen name. Opposite satire is classic and fun.


Elsewhere in Bizzaroland, a tribal nation state of white bigots, Trump wants to know where the circumcision documents are.



"Where is it?
This is part of every red blooded American boy's birth certificate papers.
If it can't be presented, there is only one explanation,
Barak did not get an American circumcision.
-I Want TO See It- I want to see it Now!
I have people looking into this matter and so far we can not find a single woman
who can attest to the circumcision of Barak Hussien Obama's penis.
What is he hiding? Isn't it wierd that no one can recall seeing it? Is he ever going to show the American people?
He should have shown America his birth certificate years ago. How long is it going to take to get to the end of his circumcision, or even the lack of one ?????? You know that we got Bill Clinton to have to undergo an examination and privide photographic evidence regarding his penis in the midst of the Whitewater scandal...WHy not Obama!!!"


Donald Trump















_________________

PLAY...
Name the Trump

If you can come up with a good middle name for the donald, you will win an autographed editorial cartoon.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 04:20 PM

(Reporter) Mr. Trump, why does it matter if the President has a circumcision or not?

" For one thing it would prove that he is not a Christian. Everybody knows that Muslims are not circumsized"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Amos
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 04:27 PM

Just Say No to Bad Hair!!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Donuel
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 04:30 PM

The man will come to a fiery end.

Do you know how flammable hairspray is...even after it has dried !?!?!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 04:33 PM

Is Trump trying to claim that Obama isn't cut out for the job?

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 05:24 PM

Trump is a several times over bankrupt jackass.

Why anyone with even pretensions to intelligence would give two shits what he says is beyond me.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Little Hawk
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 05:31 PM

kendall - I said of American politics, and I quote: " this is the World's biggest and most dangerous game"

That indicates that I concur with you wholeheartedly and absolutely that politics is important.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: dick greenhaus
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 06:05 PM

Trump is clearly an alien. Can he prove otherwise ?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Wesley S
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 06:11 PM

" I said of American politics, and I quote: " this is the World's biggest and most dangerous game"

Thank God everything is perfect up in Canada. How else would we be able to find people to tell us how screwed up we are down here?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 07:44 PM

Wesley,

Is it really fair to imply that what a single person does is a Canadian trait?

BTW, Having lived in the US more than 12 years I first thought much the way that Little Hawk did. That it was all a game and one side, Republican Or Democrat wasn't much different than the other. Now I see that it is only one side that is playing a game. The side that wants you to elect them to govern so that they can destroy and discredit government. The side that wants both privatization and deregulation because it is only logical that organizations whose only purpose is profit (corporations) can be trusted to wisely spend our taxes and ensure the public good with no oversight at all. The side that tries to discredit all forms of rational thought is playing games. Because rational thought undermines their agenda.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: saulgoldie
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 08:45 PM

Donuel,
I wish. But there really is someone called "Andy Borowitz." He is a certified genius in my book. But thanks for the appreciation.

So Lawrence O'Donnell has called out the "entertainment division" of NBC, who are part of the larger corporation of which he is a part in MSNBC news. Hope he doesn't also go the way of Keith Olberman.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: IvanB
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 08:53 PM

Since the Donald promised to make his tax return public when Obama came up with a "proper" birth certificate, I'm waiting with bated breath.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: bobad
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:06 PM

Glenn Beck is now implying that the "birther" controversy is being fostered by the obama administration to marginalize conservatives.

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2011/04/27/glenn-beck-some-birthers-on-same-side-as-obama/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:45 PM

Wesley S: "...Are these folks thinking McCain is going to made President? Because I'm guessing most "birthers" would have a cow if Joe Biden stepped into the office."

You're probably right....but then, the rest of the Obama supporters, don't see the Bull!
Half dozen of one...six of the other....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don Firth
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 09:49 PM

So the Repubs are trying to blame Obama for the abysmal stupidity of the "birthers?"

These people are a parody of themselves!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 10:10 PM

Who cares where he was born...he still sucks!..and as far as "Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger"....Hmm...sounds like he hired Barack Obama's old campaign manager..come to think of it...maybe they are all of the same!!!!
Probably are.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 10:43 PM

"saying anything that casts ANY doubt"

Bill D has it exactly right.

On the way back from rehearsal last night I heard a fascinating radio program "To the Point", I think, which backs him up all the way.

One commentator noted, regarding the absurdly high percentage of Republicans who believe there is doubt Obama was born in the US (about 45%, as I recall), that when the same group was asked if they thought there was actual evidence of the "birther" theory, the percentage saying yes dropped hugely.

All it proves is that lots of Republicans don't like Obama--and they will use any club they can find to beat him with.

Not only should this be no surprise, but, as Bill and I have said, it's actually a positive for Obama--for all sorts of reasons, many of which we've already discussed.   Also, the more Republican candidates are associated with the looney "birther" theory--rather than dealing with the real problems of the US---, the more independents will be turned off.   And it's independents who will determine the 2012 election.

So it's good that Trump now says the Obama long-form birth certificate will have to be "verified--whatever that means.

So as Bill says, here's to a Trump-Palin ticket for the GOP in 2012.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 10:44 PM

"verified"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 10:49 PM

Bill is also right to prefer O'Donnell rather than Palin for GOP VP.    Palin has passionate support and should not be underestimated.   In fact she should still not be counted out for top spot on the GOP ticket.   She can wait til summer to declare--she has no problem with name recognition--as some others (e.g. Pawlenty) do.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 27 Apr 11 - 10:54 PM

Bill D: "I really doubt there are anywhere near the stated percentages who really believe that. There are that many who answer POLLS that way, but there is just a general attitude in 'some' circles of saying anything that casts ANY doubt on Obama or his life or ideas or accomplishments. If he walked on water and cured the lame, they'd claim he didn't cure acne.
...and some are just stupid & listen to each other as sources...

Tsk tsk,....Does this ring any bells!!???!!!:
but there is just a general attitude in 'some' circles of saying anything that c

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 12:05 AM

Okay, so the release of the birth certificate proves that Barack Hussein Obama II was born in Hawaii on August 4, 1961. But how do we know that the guy in The White House is, in fact, Barack Hussein Obama II? Maybe he's some Kenyan Muslim who was switched with the real Barack Hussein Obama II soon after birth.

Look, once you go through all the effort of abandoning logic and believing something utterly stupid, it doesn't take that much more effort to believe something even stupider.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 12:20 AM

Donald Trump's middle name? "Ducky".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: J-boy
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 01:15 AM

I think there are enough rational Americans left to see this kind of nonsense for what it is. At least that's my hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 01:36 AM

I certainly hope so. But I find myself baffled a lot these last few years.

BTW, I do believe it is 100.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 07:34 AM

"You know that we got Bill Clinton to have to undergo an examination and provide photographic evidence regarding his penis in the midst of the Whitewater scandal...WHy not Obama!!!""

Indeed, why not Trump? Surely he can't pull himself that silly with only ONE?!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 08:18 AM

Over here the word "trump" means fart. Very appropriate.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 09:26 AM

Yes, it is ugly racism.

The URL is too long for the clicky-maker, but cut and paste it yourself for the data and analysis...


http://www.sciencedirect.com/science?_ob=MImg&_imagekey=B6WJB-51KK99S-2-1&_cdi=6874&_user=1911715&_pii=S0022103110002623&_origin=browse&_coverDate=03%2F31%2F2011&_sk=999529997&view=c&wchp=dGLbVtb-zSkzV&md5=48d6c074393233c5ef36448932e648c7&ie=/sdarticle.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: bobad
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 10:33 AM

TIA's link is to a study published in the Journal of Experimental Social Psychology
Volume 47, Issue 2, March 2011, Pages 430-435
which is available to subscribers or purchasable for $31.50.

This is the abstract:


References and further reading may be available for this article. To view references and further reading you must purchase this article.

Eric Hehmana, low asterisk, E-mail The Corresponding Author, Samuel L. Gaertnera and John F. Dovidiob

a Department of Psychology, University of Delaware, Newark, DE, USA

b Department of Psychology, Yale University, New Haven, CT, USA
Received 2 November 2010;
revised 21 November 2010.
Available online 30 November 2010.

Abstract

Earlier research suggests that despite President Obama's election, racial prejudice persists and continues to shape reactions to his presidency. The current work examines the role of Whites' prejudice in shaping perceptions of Obama's Americanism, and ultimately evaluations of his performance. Specifically, this research proposes that "how American" Obama is perceived will mediate the relationship between racial prejudice and evaluations of his performance for White, but not Black participants and only for Obama and not for Vice-President Biden. Data were collected from 295 Black or White students surveyed 1 year after Obama's election. Supportive of our hypotheses, racial prejudice predicted Whites' negative evaluations of Obama's performance, and this relationship was mediated by how American Obama was perceived. Additionally, these relationships were not obtained among Black participants or when Blacks or Whites evaluated the Americanism and job performance of Vice-President Biden.

Keywords: Racism; Prejudice; Group processes; Political psychology; Racial identity

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,LIghter
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:02 AM

From Yahoo News this morning:

According to Chairman Don Irvine of Accuracy in Media, "Questions still linger with respect to his academic records and even the most basic biographical data."


That's Obama's, not Trump's.

Also, the alleged birth certificate released yesterday says "Barack Hussein Obama II."

Voters thought they were voting for the regular Obama, but now we see there are two of him at least (unless the certificate is a fake). How many are there really and which one is in the White House? How could we tell?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:04 AM

Oh crap. did not realize that people outside my institutions system would not get to the actual paper. Will post some key excerpts.

"Our findings are consistent with work revealing that Whites' racial
prejudice is now typically expressed in a subtle, rationalizable manner (Dovidio & Gaertner, 2004). Whereas the aversive racism framework originally proposed that subtle, indirect manifestations of bias would mainly characterize the responses of low prejudice scoring Whites, while high-prejudice scoring Whites would express their bias more directly (Gaertner & Dovidio, 1986), the increasing strength of egalitarian norms (Schuman et al., 1997)may lead even high-prejudice scoring Whites to express their bias more subtly (Pearson et al., 2009). That is, due to social norms declaring that racial prejudice is inappropriate, even highly prejudiced Whites may feel a need to legitimatize their beliefs about Obama by attributing them to some factor unrelated to race, such as his un-American social policies. Our data support this perspective. Perceptions of Obama's un-Americanism mediated the overall relationship between racial prejudice and negative performance evaluations. However, as anticipated, this effect occurred only for White participants' evaluations of Obama, but not of Biden."

That is, Obama and Biden support the same policies, but only Obama suffers demands to prove that he is American. And what is the obvious difference between these two 50-year old Democratic politicians?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:06 AM

I see that I cross-posted with someone who "may feel a need to legitimatize their beliefs about Obama by attributing them to some factor unrelated to race".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:15 AM

"Questions still linger with respect to his academic records and even the most basic biographical data." That's Obama's, not Trump's.

More importantly, questions still linger cry out about Trump's sanity and lack of intelligence.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:33 AM

Questions certainly linger about George Bush's academic record.

And there are two of them also.

I am going to go find Lighter's posts questioning those fishy details.

Oh wait...I don't need to question those two...guess why!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:39 AM

"How many are there really and which one is in the White House?"

For the record, I thought that was funny.

There may be a limit to the general public's stomach for this stuff, but I doubt it. There will never stop being questions, which will likely get progressively more desperate and stupid. No conspiracy theory ever dies. This stuff about Obama is just misdirection (what are we NOT paying attention to!?), and it takes advantage of the less intelligent people among us who are more prone to paranoia, racism, and just a general fear of the unknown. Infer whatever political affiliation makes sense to you, but there are a lot of stupid, easily duped people in the world.

If Trump IS the "carnival barker" I've heard him called, he damned well knows that quote (probably mis-) attributed to PT Barnum about there being a sucker born every minute. I think he's squeezing everything he can get out of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ebbie
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 12:16 PM

"Voters thought they were voting for the regular Obama, but now we see there are two of him at least (unless the certificate is a fake). How many are there really and which one is in the White House? How could we tell?"

Hope that comment was tongue in cheek. :)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 12:51 PM

Ebbie: ""Voters thought they were voting for the regular Obama, but now we see there are two of him at least (unless the certificate is a fake). How many are there really and which one is in the White House? How could we tell?"

For all the 'conspiracy theorists'!..(not that ALL of them are wrong)..


Hey, as long as you're at it:
Have fun with this one!!!

..or this one!!!

In any event, how bad does bad have to be?....AT least he moved quicker on the tornado disaster!...BUT..He still sucks, as much as Bush!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 12:58 PM

Seriously.

Some reasons why conspiracy theories don't die:

1. They're easy to understand: a bunch of smart bad guys get together to fool the rest of us.

2. They're mysterious: who are these bad guys? what do they really want? how do they continue to get away with it?

3. They're usually about something vital and threatening, if true: Has a fascist coup been running America since 1963? Are Earth governments in league with the saucermen? Are doctors making my kid autistic? Is the man in the White House working for Bin Laden?

4. They make the believers feel even smarter than the conspirators themselves because the believers have it, or most of it, all figured out in spite of the secrecy.

5. They make the believers feel smarter than the dopes who can't see the conspiracy.

6. They appeal to the imagination: anybody can come up with a new twist or a new question they want answered.

7. They feed on themselves: every parent knows that the question "why?" can be repeated forever. And believers are even more likely than kids to reject the explanation of why with a "Yes, but..." or "How do you explain...?"

8. Believers believe other believers who keep raising more questions.

9. The less you know about anything, the easier it is to make up a conspiracy theory.

10. Real frauds can make anything sound mysterious by putting a sinister spin on a question that's already been answered, or one that's actually total nonsense: Who got Obama into Harvard? How come none of Obama's "fellow students" can remember him? Is there a link between Southern tornado deaths and CIA weather-control experiments?

12. Conspiracy theories are guaranteed to sell books, papers and commercial time, and to get theorists' names in print and on the air.

13. Real conspiracies do occur (though usually with a limited cast of characters), and a truly successful conspiracy would never be discovered or revealed....

14. So if there's no evidence of a conspiracy...that could be the most powerful evidence of all!!!!!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 01:06 PM

And why is No. 11 on the list missing?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: bobad
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 01:19 PM

I see the wackos are already declaring it a forgery.

http://www.infowars.com/new-obama-birth-certificate-is-a-forgery/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: lefthanded guitar
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 01:41 PM

If there's a humorous spin to be put on this, it's from David Letterman, who this week bet his salary against Bill (sp?) Mahr's (who I suspect has much MORE to gain in this deal lol) that Trump is not running, that it's just a publicity stunt, and peppers his monologue with some pithy Trump is a blowhard references.

From my ironic point of view, I'd like to know if these birthers believe EVERY SINGLE REPUBLICAN LIVING in the USA is a total idiot and NO ONE checked this out during the campaign. Well I never had all that high opinion of the Donald, but he managed to disappoint me anyways; and personally I think the guy should be banned from running on the basis of his hair alone. ;D. Not to mention his numerous business failings- at least three bankrupcies!

As Bill said, the real reason for the birther debate is that some people believe there is just some deep fundamental way the Obama is . somehow..mysteriously..not like..them! lmao I wonder what that could be?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 01:43 PM

Bobad: "I see the wackos are already declaring it a forgery."

Yeah, and now there are some 'other' questions that have arisen, too. As I heard on the radio, last night, "Now that he's produced the birth certificate, this isn't the end of it, just the beginning"..then they guy went on to explain that, being as his father was visiting from Kenya, on a student visa, and knocked up his 'ol' lady', in Hawaii, would that constitute a citizen of the US. Then he went on, how, that now the 'real scrutiny' begins.
Personally, I think its about a non-issue, compared with his abuse of Presidential powers!..such as Libya! ..among a few others. But what do I know, I'm only from Sanity-Land!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 01:51 PM

I'm only from Sanity-Land

And all this time I'd thought you were from the USA...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 02:04 PM

McGrath of Harlow: "And all this time I'd thought you were from the USA..."

Naw, just visiting....Strange critters here, though....

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 05:26 PM

""Now they all they have is extremist drivel being put forth by candidates who either clearly don't really believe in it--or worse--believe in it heart and soul. Can't get elected that way.""

Ever heard of Gee Dubya Bush Josepp?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: gnu
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 05:44 PM

Publicity stunt... gotta be. But, what amazes me is that he somehow believes there is no such thing as bad publicity. Surely being a complete ass is not good?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 05:44 PM

Dumbya be damned - what about the slew of TeaBagger Arseholes elected to Congress and State Governorships last time around?

Josepp apparently ain't been payin' attention.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 05:48 PM

Very good list, Lighter......but why IS number 11 missing from the list? Must be a conspiracy, for sure.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 06:05 PM

Bottom line is that most bastards are the victims of their parents decision not to marry.

Donald Trump is a self made man.

But never bet the farm on one of them not getting what he wants.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 06:44 PM

Joe, it's missing because of faulty proofreading.

But maybe that's just my story. Maybe the truth is far more sinister.

Number 15 may also be missing. And many more.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 06:46 PM

Aw. I thought it was because eleven is "onze" in French. Onze starts with an "O", as does "Obama", so I thought maybe they didn't want anything Obama and dropped the number. Oh well, wrong again.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Little Hawk
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 06:52 PM

I saw a Doonesbury cartoon today which featured Donald Trump AND Sarah Palin (though, oddly, Sarah's face was always hidden from view...is that an "in" joke on Garry Trudeau's part?). I noticed the particular emphasis the cartoon placed on Trump's dramatic "comb-over" hairstyle and his pudgy facial features. Amusing! ;-) I hadn't really realized until now just how much fun the Democrats were having focusing on those 2 obvious features of Mr Trump's general appearance.

Well, every political movement values having a symbolic "village idiot" or two on the opposite side to despise, and it appears that Donald Trump has now been elevated alongside Sarah Palin and is serving that purpose admirably from the point of view of Democrats, American Leftists, and "liberals".

Like I said before....what fun! ;-D The other side (those vile unconsionable, gay-bashing, racist, religious fanatic and utterly despicable rightwingers, damn their eyes!) has Obama, Gore, and Hillary to poke fun at and demonize while OUR side (the good people) has Bush, Palin, and now Trump to poke fun at and demonize. Fun all around! Take a deep breath and FEEEEELLLL the love....

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: saulgoldie
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 07:14 PM

Maybe we really need the circumcision documentation. Maybe we need it for *all* elected officials. There is, ahem, a bit of a logistical matter for female officials.

Maybe we need to see the videos of the circumcision. On the other hand...I still say it is not-too-subtle racism.

Saul

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Jeri
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 07:26 PM

LH, the the Donald's hair has been an issue long before he started getting political. You take such an interest in US politics, you could move back here and stop giving a shit, like most Americans.

I really used to look at Trump as a rich guy who obviously must've had some smarts to make so much money. Now, I'm starting to believe in sheer dumb luck along with the fact that if you have money, you make money. While I saw him as respectable on some level, and otherwise mostly harmless, I see the damage he does and I don't really like him. I'd never vote for him anyway, but I don't even want to watch his show now.

...and while we're disgusted with Trump, Little Hawk can continue to sneer at us and FEEEEELLLL the LLLOOVVVVVVE. (Or, in other words, become the thing he dislikes.) Everboddy gotta get their "I'm -better-than-you"s in there sumhow!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 07:45 PM

The air must be really thin way up there above us LH. Do you carry oxygen, or maybe have an incredible density of red blood cells? Surely you haven't been blood doping with Floyd Landis!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: John P
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 07:55 PM

Naw, Little Hawk just thinks, apparently, that racism and lies are the same as disliking racism and lies.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 08:29 PM

FWIW, I do not think Trump himself is a racist. I think he is willing to pander to absolutely anyone...including racists, to stroke his own ego.
Perhaps that is just as bad as being racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 08:39 PM

No, its considerably WORSE than simply being a racist.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 09:11 PM

Racist??? Trump??....He, like Obama, like to play ANY card they can. As far as racism, come on now, boys and girls, stop being hung over from the sixties. That worked THEN, when the nation was coming out of the shit in the South, but really! Obama NEVER ran a business, and Trump has never been elected to anything. Both are the bottom of the barrel!..regardless of their color!..and both are unbelievably bad jokes on the American public! Only fools could defend EITHER one of them, for being President!1..I guess its going to boil down to who, of the two has more 'celebrity'......dumb fuck electorate!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: gnu
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 09:25 PM

"Donald Trump is a self made man."

I could make myself too if my dad gave me all that money. I could make a number of me.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 09:33 PM

Does a "self made man" play with himself?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 10:32 PM

"dumb fuck electorate"
No.
Dumb fuck iconoclast.
Dumb fuck swami above it all.
Dumb fuck "you don't get it but I do".
Welcome to the Dumb Fuck Club.
Do you really think you are above the rest of us?
Do you?










If you got the Modern Family reference, at least you have a sense of humor.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: robomatic
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:16 PM

I want to says some NICE things about Mr. Trump. He is a classic New Yorker. He will insist that his kids be raised simply, playing with blocks, like 43rd avenue and sixth.
In fact, last time I visited New York, I was strolling down the avenue, as is my wont, and I spied the man himself. Now, I do not tend to share his political aspirations but I saw no reason to be rude or impoolite. I said in my most courteous voice, "Nice day, isn't it, Mr. Trump?" And Mr. Trump himself was the apex of decorum as he smiled and without a pause, said: "You're welcome!"

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 28 Apr 11 - 11:56 PM

TIA: "Do you really think you are above the rest of us?
Do you?"

Above??? No, maybe more 'sane'. I didn't vote for either one of the leading pieces of shit! (Obama or McCain)

For what its worth.......

Oh, and I'm glad I didn't!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 12:38 AM

So. "Sanity", you can be proud you threw your vote away on somebody who had no chance---or perhaps refused to exercise your right to vote at all.

Either way, you also threw away your right to criticize the current administration--since when you had the chance to try to change it, you didn't take the opportunity.

Though it certainly doesn't take away your right to whine.   And it's a fine whine you are purveying, I must say.

And at least you remained ideologically pure.    And that's far more important than getting anything done--as we all know.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 01:17 AM

Of course voting in 2008 would not be voting against the Obama administration, since it was not in power. But the fact remains that in the US the 2-party system is the only game in town.   Voting for any other party is throwing your vote away--and helping one or the other of the 2 main parties.

As should be blazingly obvious to anybody with a smattering of political savvy.

Which sometimes seems to exclude an amazing number of Mudcatters.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 01:30 AM

Ron, You are ABSOLUTELY out of your tree! I voted my conscience, which is what we a supposed to do! You think you did 'good' by voting for 5 Trillion dollar waste Obama?????????????...or, John 'Flip-Flop' McCain, who miraculously walked away from the Lincoln Savings and Loan scandal??? (probably with the help of Timmy 'Tax Cheat' Geithner, or the Bushes?? Get real! I've got EVERY reason, not just to bitch, but to throw, "I told you so!" into your stupid mugs! I'm messed up, because I wasn't hoodwinked like you!?!??? You just went along with the crowd of idiot lemmings..and now, there ain't shit you can do about it, except decide if Donald Trump is for real or not???..and/or better than Obama???? I didn't throw my vote away..nor my integrity!..Sorry about you!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 07:22 AM

Trump's Birth Certificate

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 07:30 AM

Now, now, "Sanity.    Perhaps you'll learn to think.    Perhaps not.    Have to say the prognosis is not good at this point.

"ideological purity more important than..."

QED


Interesting that you are in good company on Mudcat, it seems.   Quite a few appear to be more interested in "making a statement" than getting anything done.   Forgive me if it appears to a thinking person that the "statement" made is "I am a fool".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 07:40 AM

Robin, you and others of us who actually see the true significance of the "birthers" might also like to check out the Huffington Post version of the birth certificate.

Article: " Obama's Birth Certificate Through the Eyes of a Birther"

Somebody really should link it.   It is an instant classic.

Some gems:



State of Hawaii:   "Is it 100% verified that Hawaii was a state in 1961?"

Hospital located on Kalanianole Highway:    "Name obviously made up by James Cameron"

Last Name:   Obama II:    "Is 'Obama II a model number?    Is he a robot?"





The whole thing is just perfect.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 08:33 AM

Obama's Birth Certificate Through the Eyes of a Birther

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 09:35 AM

Ron, I think quite well, thank you...perhaps its you, who can't see the obvious!
There were other candidates who ran, that weren't such huge liars!..and I just couldn't get myself to cast my vote for them! I'm glad you got what you wanted, and you 'got' to be on the 'winning' side...only problem is, I just couldn't see a good reason to vote for the dissolution of America, by some ideological puppet! You can, and think that's great!..You are the target of who the mega-corporations, promote phony polls for...so you can go along with the 'crowd' of 'Winners'.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: pdq
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 11:04 AM

Donald Trump's various enterprises employ about 24 thousand people.

With normal sized families, that means there are probably 100 thousand people who live on the money supplied by these jobs.

Trump is a personable guy and an important man in the economic picture of the United States. He has flaws, but so does everyone.

I believe he is the first man who has put Omama on the defensive. That is always what Obama does to other people.

Obama is the most divisive political figure in US history. He make no effort to get along with people who disagree with his policies. He puts all of his effort into destroying them.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 11:16 AM

Donald Trump's various enterprises employ about 24 thousand people.

You're right, PeeDee & for that we should give him a pass & ignore his idiocies.

Until, of course, he declares bankruptcy again. What has it been- six times now?

Obama is the most divisive political figure in US history. He make no effort to get along with people who disagree with his policies.

Guess you're not old -or smart?- enuf to remember Harry Truman, Dick Nixon, George Bush 1&2, Karl Rove, Boehner, Palin, Scott Walker, Tailgunner Joe McCarthy, John C. Calhoun, Andy Jackson, Thomas Jefferson, Jesus, posts being limited to one frame guess I can't list the other thousand.........................

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 11:48 AM

"Birthers". "Tea Baggers". What weird humans we be.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Little Hawk
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 12:40 PM

I can't think of anything I like about Donald Trump. Does that help? Feel better now?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ebbie
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 01:22 PM

Oh, I dunno, LH. I once had a dog about the color of the donald's hair. (Didn't come out of a bottle though.)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 04:17 PM

"I believe he is the first man who has put Omama on the defensive. That is always what Obama does to other people.

"Obama is the most divisive political figure in US history. He make no effort to get along with people who disagree with his policies. He puts all of his effort into destroying them."

My God, pdq, what planet are you from!!???

Obama has been on the defensive right from the start with this whole "birther" thing, which is nothing more than a flimsy cover for nothing less than racism. There are vast numbers of people out there who are downright dyspeptic at the very idea of a black man as president. That's what this whole "birther" thing is all about.

And Obama's major problem is that he is TOO conciliatory. He's constantly seeking consensus, compromise, and cooperation with people whose primary purpose is to see that he fails. He's simply not going to get it.

What Obama needs to do is to take a leaf from "Give 'Em Hell Harry" Truman's book and start kicking some butt!

Harry Truman knew the Constitution well and he knew what the powers of the President are. If it was within those powers, rather than dickering, fussing, and bargaining with obstructionists, he simple issued and Executive Order. End of discussion. Case closed!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 04:24 PM

Two comments heard during a discussion on the radio this morning:

"Donald Trump is nothing but a tick on the rump of the Tea Party."

"The 'birthers' are now insisting on seeing the placenta. . . ."

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 04:43 PM

...and the far left 'birthers' want to see the act....then claim it never happened, because they got caught!!

wink!

Gfs

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don Firth
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 06:56 PM

Unfortunately, with the two-party system in the United States, most of the time, one is in the position of having to vote for what one considers to be the lesser of two evils rather than a candidate one prefers. Third parties have popped in and out of existence, but almost always, they fill the function of being spoilers. Thusly:

The "Gargantua #1" party, which you generally prefer because of its platform and general policies, is fielding a candidate whom you do not like very much. But you regard him as far preferable to the candidate offered by the "Gargantua #2" party, who you feel would be an absolute disaster were he elected. So—the lesser of two evils is "Gargantua #1's" candidate.

But along comes the "Itty-Bitty Teensy Tinesy" party, and although the candidate they offer is fairly obscure, you happen to believe that he can heal the sick, raise the dead, walk on water and sing like Nelson Eddy. You decide that he would be, by far, the very person to run the country.

But the likelihood of his garnering more than a small percentage of the votes is all but non-existant. But you vote for him anyway. And you feel all warm and fuzzy. Your principles and integrity are intact.

When the votes are counted, they break down like this:

Gargantua #2's candidate --- 52%
Gargantua #1's candidate --- 47%
Itty-Bitty Teensy Tinesy's candidate --- 5%

Now, no way in hell would those who voted for the IBTT candidate have ever voted for G-2's candidate. If the IBTT candidate hadn't been there, they would have voted for G-1's candidate. They may have held their noses when they did so, but they felt that if the G-2's candidate was elected, it would have been a national catastrophy.

But because they voted for the IBTT candidate—whom they knew didn't stand a chance—exactly what they didn't want is what happened!

This is NOT theoretical. It has been exactly the case in recent presidential elections.

Oh! But those who voted for third-party candidates can feel all warm and fuzzy. Because they voted their consciences!

Disconnected their brains, but by God, they voted their consciences.

That should be a great comfort as they are stand there in the unemployment line.

####

Now, is there an alternative to this situation, in which you can vote your conscience and still stand a chance of avoiding getting the very candidate you want the least?

Yes!

Forgive me for a bit of cut-and-paste, but if you haven't heard of this, it's time you did:

Democracies benefit from people expressing themselves freely and openly. I mentioned previously that a successful democracy is one where people vote and their vote has meaning. The fact that Americans don't vote is symptom number 1 that American democracy is struggling.

Symptom number 2 is that often American votes don't seem to be relevant. Whether it is gerrymandering, living in a red/blue state, the Electoral College or living in Washington D.C. (where they have no voting representation in Congress) there are plenty of reasons to feel that your vote doesn't count in America.

Dissatisfaction with the mainstream elements of the two major parties has routinely generated an attempted third party or powerful side voice within one of the major parties. Ross Perot's Reform Party garnered nearly 19% of the popular vote in 1992 but no electoral votes. In the 2000 presidential elections, lost amid the illegal Florida voter roll cleaning and chad-studying theater was the fact that Ralph Nader had received almost 3% of the popular vote, including a significant percent in some state close elections. Voters who supported Perot in 1992 and Nader in 2000 were aware that their candidate had little chance of winning yet they cast their vote to a third party.

If voters could vote for third party candidates and be assured that their votes were not immediately rendered meaningless, would that make for a better democracy? Australians have addressed this idea through preferential voting where voters rank the candidates. All the first place votes are counted. If no candidate wins an absolute majority of first place votes, then the candidate with the least number of votes is dropped and the ballots of this eliminated candidate are re-allocated according to its second place votes. This process continues until a candidate has an absolute majority.

In 1992, Bill Clinton received 43% of the popular vote but won the Electoral College in a landslide. Had the Perot votes been reallocated using a preferential system, Clinton would still likely have won handily, but we'll never know for certain. Academicians and political analysts can debate endlessly about the impact that Nadar had in the 2000 election, but we'll never know for certain. With preferential voting, the voices of those Nadar and Perot supporters would have been heard more clearly.

Australia's been using this system of preferential voting for almost 100 years - perhaps its time for the United States to consider the advantages and disadvantages rather than quash votes that don't belong to the two main political parties.

Howard Steven Friedman -- Huffington Post

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: gnu
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 07:04 PM

"Trump is a personable guy..."

Hahahahahahahahaaa. Ohhhh my!!!

Trump is an arrogant, egotistical asshole who has NO intention of running for president. He only cares about getting his face in the news. He is a no mind rich shallow twit who is making money off those that would suck up the hate and lies that he spews.

Nice work if he can get it. I wish he would crawl back under his rock and stop inciting those he seems to be able to manipulte. It is truly sad when a piece of garbage like him can get media time attacking a man with Obama's credentials. Truly fucking sad.

PT Barnum would be right fuckin proud!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: bobad
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 07:08 PM

Right on gnu!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 09:18 PM

The Don sets a new tone in American politics:

http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20110429/ap_on_go_pr_wh/us_donald_trump_vegas_10

CNN aired several additional (bleeped) tidbits. He managed to work in most of the words you'd expect.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 10:21 PM

Don at 6:56 has it right.    "Sanity' and other brilliant thinkers of that ilk can feel warm and fuzzy.

And that's far more important than getting anything done politically--as we all know, of course.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 11:43 PM

Just a note for Mudcatters:

I've started dropping Facebook 'friends' who subscribe to the 'birther conspiracy'. No further notices or warnings will be given.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 29 Apr 11 - 11:48 PM

Thanks Don - once again Australia leads the way - you know who designed those self jacking cranes used to build skyscrapers?

Right again ...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 09:33 AM

It is truly sad when a piece of garbage like [Trump] can get media time attacking a man with Obama's credentials.

That's not so sad. What's REALLY fu$king sad (and dangerous!)are the mindless imbeciles who BELIEVE Trump's bullshit.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 10:35 AM

"""Donald Trump is a self made man."

I could make myself too if my dad gave me all that money. I could make a number of me. ""

ZZZZZZZiiiiiiiiiiiiipppppppppppppp!

That's the sound of a point flying close above somebody's head.


If you read the whole post Gnu, you will get that I was talking about what made him a bastard.

Get it?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 12:28 PM

Yet again:   the "birther" conspiracy theory is a huge positive for Obama.   It has split the Republican party--Republican candidates have the interesting task of trying to get 'birther" votes without seeming to accept the theory--since Republicans who can think (Rove, Linda Chavez, and a whole host of other prominent members of the GOP, as well as other members of the party, want no part of it. And above all, independents---who will in fact determine the 2012 election, think it--and by extension any supporters--is just plain looney.   As it of course is.

It has also seemingly united everybody left of center behind Obama again--just look at the comments on this thread--some from people who had harshly criticized Obama for imagined sins of omission or commission.

It has also distracted people from the real problems now facing the US--in many issues, none of which are at this point looking good for the president.

It will be wonderful for Obama if--as seems likely--it never goes away.

And even better if Mr. Trump runs for GOP nominee for president, loses, then runs as an independent. Among other things, think of all the money the other Republicans would have to spend to defeat him.   And think of the charges they would toss at each other.

Well, we can dream.


What we really should be concerned about is that Ralph Nader has raised his incredibly ugly head --yet again--to search for a candidate to run against Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Bad Bob
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 07:27 PM

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies

Don at 6:56 has it right.    "Sanity' and other brilliant thinkers of that ilk can feel warm and fuzzy.

And that's far more important than getting anything done politically--as we all know, of course.


just ask Adolf Hitler, Mussolini, Pol Pot, Mao, Stalin, Shaw of Iran, etc, etc.

Sanity makes a lot more sense, than getting something done, for the sake of politics. I would think that getting something done should start with getting something right, before just continuing down a wrong road, which the majority of Americans think we are on.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 07:41 PM

One hundred and sixty posts so far.

Is he worth all that attention?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don Firth
Date: 30 Apr 11 - 09:46 PM

GUEST,Bad Bob, rather than driving straight for the cliff's edge, it would be better to drive away from it—even if it were in a zig-zag path instead of directly away. At least you're going in a more-or-less right direction instead of straight toward disaster.

Obvious to me.

You're NEVER going to find an ideal candidate. All you can EFFECTIVELY do is select the best one out of the several offering themselves. BUT!! The one you select should at least have a decent chance of getting elected, not splitting the vote for an acceptable candidate who at least has a reasonable chance and will do a better job than the other major candidate.

That's politics. Even the Greeks knew that, and their Democracy lasted a hell of a lot longer than ours has so far, and in many ways operated much better than ours does. And their Democracy didn't fail through internal corruption, it fell due to external conquest. The Macedonians.

Don Firth

P. S. "Is he worth all that much attention?" No, but other issues this thread as brought up are.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 May 11 - 04:33 AM

First, thanks 'Bad Bob'. I agree that integrity begins with US, here, at home...and in our own hearts, before we go dictating to the rest of the populace, that We, being compromised, is an honorable thing! That being said, Don has a point..but to a point...and that is, while it is true, that so many yard-birds out there just take the corrupted political system, without question, because its ALL we can get, some of us here in Mudcat-Land are writers, and composers and musicians...and, of all people, who should NOT lay down, it is us!!!
You would think, that REAL writers, SHOULD be independent thinkers. What you are hearing(or reading) is the remnants of worn out, and burnt out spectators, who think by posting an 'opinion', that that is the best they can do!...I think its hogwash! It's NOT all that can be done...but, if you think that you are done, then just give up the ghost, and play dead!..Let others do your thinking for you! Discard any God given talent to make a difference, and wish for the 'good ol' days' to return.....IN YOUR DREAMS!!!
You are new here, I think, and instead of trying to get political parrots to think, you will only hear them repeat worn out platitudes, and accusations, that they have NOT yet realized, that are burnt out and useless!..Lifeless rhetoric, that reaches no one, but rather, serves only to assure the dead, that they are still do dead, to independently think, and moreover, DO something about it..to win the hearts and minds of people, to stand FOR something, that stands tall!!!!
Let me give you an example, which is true, by the way...I recently had some people over, older people(than me), and invited them down to my basement studio, to give them a private time of listening to some music, that I have composed..mostly since I've been coming onto the Mudcat Forum. Now, I don't know how long you've been reading the posts, on here, but if you've spent much time, you would have noticed that all but a few on here, think I'm 'out of touch' with their predominantly 'left/liberal' political hypocrisy. That being said, I'm NOT a 'right wing' promoter, either. But rather, I try to lift up the HUMAN spirit, and not align myself with either side, that would rather us have the intellect and behavior of mere insects!..That being said, (back to my point), this couple were completely blown away by what they heard, and said, "Listening to your music is life-changing...I mean seriously..."
When I heard that, the first thing that popped into my head was, "Like in what way?".....My answer came when one said, "I haven't felt those things, in at least, over 35 years.."
THIS is the kind of thing that any one of us CAN do, if we could get our heads, OUT of 'political' thinking, and return to identifying ourselves with loving our fellow humans, and writing, and speaking, and playing TO that human spirit, which binds ALL of us together..BEFORE we throw it away, on some ideological notion, which to be a member of, you must throw away your sense of loving unity!..and sell out, to let politicos speak and think for you!..then get the 'seal of approval' from a bunch of non-thinking parrots!...some even eloquent, non-thinking parrots!!!
Don't be mislead, and/or fooled....go with the beauty that you know in you, and reach the beauty in someone else. That, by the way, is rather contagious...and more influence on a world that needs this..more than a bunch of parrots, trying to make sure no other parrots escape the 'flock'.
Got it?
With independent thinking, bring that influence back to a desperate people..who need the clarity, of independence from manipulated 'party' control!!!!
Best Wishes..and do not listen to discouragement, from the sell outs!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: The Fooles Troupe
Date: 01 May 11 - 08:26 AM

On a roll now - 99, 100 ...

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 01 May 11 - 02:05 PM

Greek democracy? If I remember my school history, some 20,000 citizens out of many, including slaves.
Of course limiting rights to the few always works better than letting everyone in.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ebbie
Date: 01 May 11 - 02:53 PM

Q, the vaunted Greek democracy has always struck me as strange- they had many slaves/noncitizens with no voice in government and women had no role.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Don Firth
Date: 01 May 11 - 03:32 PM

Greek--specifiacally Athenian Democracy definitely had its flaws, but in concept and practice, in many crucial ways it was superior to what we have today. Slavery, yes, but these were generally enemy troops captured in battle. It was not an institutionalized part of their economy. Nor did it target particular racial groups the way slavery in the southern United States did. It was usually for a short time, then they were sent home with the admonition, "Don't do it again!"

Only men had the vote. Not women. But there were many men at the time who strongly pointed out that by not including women in their deliberations (and many councils and symposia DID!), they were wasting about half of the city-state's intellectual power. The disenfranchisement of women was not specifically Greek. It was the world view at the time, and remember:   that viewpoint didn't crumble until very recently, and in some places in the world, it still prevails.

Here's the kicker:   All Athenian citizens were expected to keep up with current affairs, and there could be disastrous consequences if they did not. Here's how. There were no political parties. The Athenians knew what that could lead to, which we have obviously forgotten, and it now limits our choices to only what the Powers that Be chose to present us with. In Athens, candidates were chosen from the citizenry at large by lottery. YOU might suddenly be in charge! You served for a specified period of time, then someone else would be chosen by lottery to replace you.

Now hear this:   The citizens at large would then vote on how well you did. You could be awarded a laurel wreath and great honors if you did well. But—if you screwed up royally or were just generally incompetent, you could be banished from Athens.

And this was decided by the citizens at large.

Juries (501, again, chosen at random, by lottery) and councils (the first 6,000 citizens to arrive on "The Hill") were far too large for anyone to bribe.

Well, I could go on about the virtues and flaws of Athenian Democracy, but it's already been done, quite neatly in First Democracy, The Challenge of an Ancient Idea, by Paul Woodruff. It's a fast and easy read, and it's a real eye-opener.

Woodruff ends with a chapter that asks, "Are Americans Ready for Democracy?"

Like I say, it's a real eye-opener.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 01 May 11 - 04:41 PM

What many people forget when they sneer at the now obvious inconsistencies of Greek democracy is that Greek democracy was the first of its kind on Planet Earth. It was a giant step up from arbitrary monarchism. ("I'm the King! I rule from God! Why should I care about you...?")

And the idea that everybody deserves a vote (well, lots of people anyway) was rarely practiced anywhere else in the world apart from early Greek inspiration.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,TIA
Date: 01 May 11 - 06:25 PM

Bad Bob -
The ubiquitous and spurious commas give it all away.
Just sayin....

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: frogprince
Date: 01 May 11 - 08:13 PM

I think you got it, Tia. Actually, it sounds like one of the personalities may have been slightly critical of the other, though; maybe the disassociation explains why Gfs has posted things and then
denied posting them later.

(The comeback to that may get real interesting) : )

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 01 May 11 - 08:33 PM

Wrong!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Ron Davies
Date: 01 May 11 - 10:49 PM

"Is he worth all that attention?"

Interesting question from someone who is contributing to "all that attention".

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: saulgoldie
Date: 03 May 11 - 12:25 PM

More from Andy Borowitz:


Trump Undecided About What Stupid Shit to Say Next
Longest Period of Speechlessness on Record, Experts Say

NEW YORK (The Borowitz Report) - With the public's attention focused on the death of Osama bin Laden, billionaire Donald Trump huddled with advisors for the second straight day to try to decide what stupid shit to say next.

"The bin Laden thing has definitely stolen the headlines from Donald," said close associate and advisor Tracy Klugian. "The only way he can grab them back is by doing what he does best: saying something really fucked up."

Trump's two-day hiatus from spewing messed up shit is the longest on record, experts say, adding to the pressure on the billionaire to break his silence with something truly craptastic.

To that end, he has closeted himself with a circle of advisors including the Rev. Pat Robertson, former NBA star Charles Barkley, and the former voice of the Aflac duck, Gilbert Gottfried.

Mr. Trump has drawn up a short list of verbal turds that have potential, including attacking President Obama for overdue library books during his grade school years, but so far he has failed to come up with a comment that is both objectionable and ill informed enough to meet his high standards.

"People don't know how much work goes into saying the stupid shit Donald says," Mr. Klugian said. "He just makes it look easy."

Elsewhere, in another setback for al-Qaeda, the terror network confirmed today that Osama bin Laden was the only person who knew the organization's iTunes password.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 May 11 - 12:51 PM

Hear, Hear, Andy!

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: saulgoldie
Date: 04 May 11 - 05:48 PM

OK. Let's take it to the next level. The only thing these jerks understand is raw power. Voting is power. But poll place voting is not always the "it." And "they" are actively working to limit our poll place voting power by challenging voter rolls, and even hacking voting machinery.

But money is power. And even if none of us has LOTS of money individually, together we have lots of money. And therefore, power. It took a little while to "deck Beck." But it happened. Turning "Beck" into a verb, let's "Beck Trump."

NBC 1-212-664-4444
NBC Entertainment:
Rebecca Marks, Executive Vice President, Publicity
818-777-3030
[e-mail]

Change.org has a petition you can sign:
http://www.change.org/petitions/dont-support-donald-trump-and-boycott-the-sponsors-of-nbcs-the-celebrity-apprentice-3

This petition targets the major sponsors and supporters of Celebrity Apprentice:
CEO, Enterprise Rental Car Company(Andrew C. Taylor)
The Walt Disney Company(Robert Iger)
The Clorox Company(Donald R. Knauss)
Director, Business Communications, Bristol-Myers Squibb(Laura Hortas)
CEO, Groupon Inc.(Andrew Mason)
Executive VP, Publicity, NBC Entertainment(Rebecca Market)
CEO, Sprint-Nextel Wireless(Dan Hesse)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Wesley S
Date: 12 Oct 11 - 03:35 PM

Here's a movie trailer for a documentry about a golf course The Donald has tried to build in Scotland:


You've been Trumped

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 05:06 PM

Reviewing this five year old thread is both amusing and horrifying.

But when war criminal Dick Cheney falls Trump a racist bigot and the front cover of the New York Daily News (cue Tom Paxton)looks like
THIS, things are REALLY getting beyond bizarre.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 05:19 PM

Is it really the same Trump as in the golf course?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 05:24 PM

He's an ignorant POS.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 05:48 PM

"The Secretary of Treasury [State] and the Attorney General will invalidate all visas issued to Iranian citizens for future entry into the United States, effective today. We will not reissue visas, nor will we issue new visas, except for compelling and proven humanitarian reasons or where the national interest of our own country requires. This directive will be interpreted very strictly."

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: DMcG
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 06:04 PM

There is a UK petition to have Trump banned from the UK which after around a day has so far reached 346,186: more than three times the level where it will be considered for a parliamentary debate. Considered for, you note: it need not happen.

My guess is that since, however unlikely, there is a chance Trump gets elected President I am sure all our uk politicians will see the potential embarrassment of banning the us president, so the debate probably won't happen, and I don't see a ban if one does take place..

Politics, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Dec 15 - 06:07 PM

Enough of the Faux News Re-Fried Horseshit, Guest Asshole.

See:

http://www.snopes.com/jimmy-carter-banned-iranian-immigrants/

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 03:52 AM

Banning him isn't the answer. Ridiculing him is far more appropriate.

If we ban him, it means there is something in what he says that we see as a threat, bolstering the bigotry of the low intelligence creatures who support him.

People who express any bigotry inspired incitement to hatred need to be exposed, laughed at and their opinions condemned and dismissed. Just as we do with homophobia, misogyny and racism. Banning them makes them feel they must be on to something.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 05:46 AM

In 1979, the attorney general issued all Iranian students to report to their local immigration offices. While 7,000 were in violation of their visas, 15,000 Iranians were forced to leave the U.S.

The words were from a jimmy carter speech. Snopes says it is true. GF is the hate monger here.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 05:57 AM

If you can't differentiate between people from a country with an agenda and anybody from anywhere based on how they say God, there's no hope for you.

Don't worry. It's what we expect We'd never be able to point and laugh at you all without you.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Bee-dubya-ell
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 08:33 AM

Furthermore, unlike country of origin, religious faith is not something which immigration authorities can ascertain. Nationality is an empirical fact, but religious affiliation is 100% self-declared. If a terror-bent Islamist is willing to shave his beard, shove a copy of the King James Bible into his carry-on bag, and claim to be a Christian, how can anyone prove otherwise?

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 08:52 AM

Gibberish.

"Hate speech is speech that attacks a person or group on the basis of attributes such as gender, ethnic origin, religion, race, disability, or sexual orientation."

Someone is attacking Christians.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 09:45 AM

Someone is attacking Christians.

Bullshit, oh Nameless One.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 10:13 AM

"anti-Muslim hysteria is sweeping the U.S. its only a matter of time before we see a pogrom on Muslims"

There already is a pogrom on Christians by hysterical Muslims.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 10:21 AM

Bullshit, oh Brainless One.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: olddude
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 10:37 AM

I wonder if he kisses his wife with that mouth. For a smart rich guy he really has no clue about life. Sadly he rises in the polls ugh

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Triplane
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 06:04 PM

I always thought the Trump was the warm-up comedy act for the main show.
He's doing the hard warm-up work and the "star turn" whoever that may be) will get the applause and curtain calls (Votes)

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 08:09 PM

Imam Nidal Alsayed, who leads the Islamic Center of Triplex in Beaumont, said while he agrees with Trump on closing the door until more review is conducted, "this should not prevent the United States to fulfill its duties towards international partners" and calls of humanity outside the United States.

Alsayyed said he does not believe there is anything unconstitutional about Trump's proposal saying, "when it comes to peace and safety," a ban would be acceptable.

"We American Muslims need to be sincere in our religion and to the country we are living in. Peace comes before religion. We need to be truthful and transparent when we express a viewpoint or feedback. It does not matter whether Trump said it or anyone else," said the imam.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 08:34 PM

Greg F. "Enough of the Faux News Re-Fried Horseshit, Guest Asshole."

'Faux News' wasn't around when Roosevelt rounded up the Japanese and put then in relocation camps....Carter did the visa deal with Iranians..
Just for what it's worth..

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Dec 15 - 08:49 PM

Carter did the visa deal with Iranians..
Just for what it's worth..

Its worth less than shit, Goofus. Assuming you can read, do check the Snopes article, asshole.

Subject: RE: BS: Trump: Self-promoter & Hatemonger
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 11 Dec 15 - 12:16 AM

Greg F. "Its worth less than shit, Goofus. Assuming you can read, do check the Snopes article, asshole."

I think you ran your mouth before reading AND understanding the Snopes article on that...Here, this is a quote from the Snopes page you posted and referred to:

"Carter explicitly outlined the reasons behind the issuance of sanctions (including visa cancellation for Iranian nationals) and underscored his intent to pressure Iran's regime."

...and what I posted was: "....Carter did the visa deal with Iranians..
Just for what it's worth.."

Get some toilet paper, and wipe your mouth.

GfS