Famous Tune Movie Deliverance

Subject: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: Beer
Date: 02 May 11 - 04:14 PM

This is an excerpt from the film "Deliverance." I copied and pasted it here as I was unaware of the story behind it. Amazing.
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Duo guitar and banjo was not part of the original movie script until a cameraman filmed this scene.
The guy who played guitar in the movie Deliverance is Ronnie Cox.
NOTE: the family of the boy was well paid.
When the filming of the movie group stopped at a gas station somewhere, one of the players began to play a few notes on his guitar.
There was an Autistic boy watching the filming at the gas station and heard the music.
He began to react timidly, on his banjo, playing what he heard.
Then began an incredible dialogue of instruments between the guitarist and the autistic child and his banjo , it was the only way by which he was able to communicate.

This remarkable scene has been included in the film!
Look at the expression of the autistic child. At the beginning he seems uncertain; but when the music is growing in intensity, he loses his lost air and
shows an expression of pleasure and happiness.
After this magic moment, the boy loses his expression of Ecstasy and closes himself in his little world.

Look at the expression of the autistic boy, in particular, to the end.
This scene is a memorable part of the film.


http://youtu.be/NFutge4xn3w

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: Jeri
Date: 02 May 11 - 04:45 PM

The banjo playing kid was child actor Billy Redden (at Wikipedia, or here, at IMDB), picked for the role. He seems to have only had other roles as a banjo player.

The music, well, I was watching re-runs of the Andy Griffith Show, with the Dillards acting as 'the Darlings' and was really surprised to hear them play Dueling Banjos. Turned out it "was written and recorded in 1955 as 'Feuding Banjos' by Country star Arthur "Guitar Boogie" Smith."

So none of this was impromptu. I wonder if the kid really played the banjo, but I think he might have.

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: Beer
Date: 02 May 11 - 05:04 PM

Thanks Jeri. You can remove the thread if you want to.
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Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: Jeri
Date: 02 May 11 - 05:38 PM

Maybe the best thing about movies is they make us think and dream and wonder. They're fiction, even if based on truth, and they still have the power to inspire us, and make us think "what if...?"

I'm watching that scene, and I see how different the two worlds are, how separate, and how the gap is bridged by music. People stop smirking and judging and being defensive, and it all is suspended for a few perfect minutes as the music makes people forget the tension and just enjoy.

Maybe it's just a story, but it makes me feel something good.

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: saulgoldie
Date: 02 May 11 - 09:05 PM

If only, Jeri. I keep wondering about all the human conflicts that could be alleviated if we only played together. My musical touchstones for this sentiment are this one, and also "Christmas in the Trenches."

Music is basic and human. Yes, if only...

Saul

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: Ross Campbell
Date: 02 May 11 - 09:57 PM

I used to have a copy of the book of the film (or did the book come first?). The "duelling" tune is given there as "Wildwood Flower".

Wikipedia says the 1972 film is based on the 1970 novel by James Dickey who also wrote the screenplay along with director John Boorman, and played a Sheriff in the film.

Elektra Records had an album "New Dimensions in Banjo and Bluegrass" by Eric Weissberg and Marshall Brickman (1963) which was augmented with the "Duelling Banjos" theme tune played by Eric Weissberg and Steve Mandell and released by Warner Brothers. Arthur Smith's copyright claim was happily resolved, along with other residual rights claims on the earlier album resulting from unco-ordinated record company communications. Eric Weissberg explains the (involved!) history:-

here:- (It's a 2-page pdf)

Ross

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: GUEST
Date: 02 May 11 - 10:10 PM

The "autistic" kid was not autistic. He's an actor and he did NOT play the banjo. Someone else was doing that. It's all camera angles and such... you can find this stuff on the Internet if you're really interested.

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: Ron Davies
Date: 02 May 11 - 10:42 PM

Movies have the power to inspire us.    Or they can do other things.   This is a riveting movie, and the music is one of the best things about it.

However the movie has played a huge role in stereotyping--for people all over the world--poorly educated white Southerners.

I remember reading that James Dickey went on a trip fairly similar to that of the protagonists in his novel and film.    But his treatment was dramatically different from that of his characters--in fact he was treated quite well.

And the people he met on the trip were not happy, to say the least, about how he had altered facts and attitudes--just a bit-- to sell his product.

Many of these people may have characteristics of the "Borderers" (their ancestry in many cases)--exaggerated sense of honor, not much respect for education, extended family, violence as a way of solving problems..    But this movie goes far beyond such attitudes.

And has tarred huge numbers in the region--in what is for many viewers a very believable way.

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: scouse
Date: 03 May 11 - 06:23 AM

At the Tonder festival many years ago Bill Kieth and Eric Wiesberg were playing with different bands..If memory serves me right Bill Kieth played the Banjo in the Film and Eric wrote the tune. That Monday night at the Festival will live with me for a long,long time... Bill and Eric got up on the small stage and for the first and maybe the last time performed "Dueling Banjo's." One hell of a night to remember..

As Aye,

Phil.

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 03 May 11 - 06:53 AM

I suppose I ought to have my two penneth!

My understanding is that the tune "Duelling Banjos" is based o a traditional tune called "End of a Dream". I've always thought that it was played on the film by Eric Weissberg and Marshall Brickman. I have both the DVD and the LP/CD that Eric Weissberg released shortly afterwards. I'll dig them out and look at the credits when I get chance.

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: Beer
Date: 03 May 11 - 06:58 AM

Please do Ray.
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Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 03 May 11 - 07:33 AM

The facts, Dueling Banjos, was a copy of Feudin Banjos written by Arthur Smith, originally performed by Arthur Smith on tenor banjo and Don Reno on five string, it was played in the film Deliverence by Eric Weissberg on five string banjo and Steve Mandell on guitar.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: Brian May
Date: 03 May 11 - 07:48 AM

Personally, I don't really care.

This excerpt from the film is the only reason I'd ever re-watch Deliverance, it's a sublime recording and hugely enjoyable.

It's now in the annals as a classic tune (and my ringtone too!!!)

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: GUEST
Date: 03 May 11 - 08:07 AM

Because Billy Redden did not know how to play the banjo, (he was 16 and cast from the local high school) another banjo player knelt behind him and reached around his chest to play the banjo. Redden wore a specially designed shirt that made the man's arms appear to be his own. The camera angle was carefully selected (This was well known at the time of the movie release)

(SOURCE tmz.com/2008/12/09/born-and-bred-american/)

Beer You usually do bettter when you stay below the line. As a reminder of your tress pass into "the upper kingdom."

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Bend over real nice and let's hear squeal REAL LOUD like a pig.

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: Beer
Date: 03 May 11 - 08:49 AM

Thanks man!
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Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: Etan
Date: 03 May 11 - 10:46 PM

Does anyone have a source for "End of a Dream" cited above? I'd be interested in finding the tune and/or lyrics. Whenever I play banjo in the park or on the street, people ask for "Dueling Banjos". I have to remind them it's a duet. It would be nice to know a traditional song with a similar melody that I could play. Thanks in advance.

-- Etan

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: GUEST,Clint Westwood
Date: 03 May 11 - 11:46 PM

movie FX magic folks..

its on formal record somewhere that the kid was chosen for his face only
and a real banjo player sat underneath and behind him,
his hands protruding through sleeves on a mocked up 'jacket' rig
so he could fake the banjo playing.

Same trick method as how David Bowie was made to look like an accomplished juggler
in "Labyrinth".

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: GUEST,Ray
Date: 04 May 11 - 06:09 AM

See Track 9 on this - http://www.amazon.co.uk/Deliverance-Eric-Weissberg/dp/B000002KEL/ref=sr_1_3?s=music&ie=UTF8&qid=1304503580&sr=1-3

.... but I don't think its something you could play solo!

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: mrmoe
Date: 04 May 11 - 07:47 AM

.....here's an interesting note:



"Let me clear this up.... That story of Dueling Banjos, the fatasy version.... is just that... fantasy! There is no truth whatsoever to it. The scene was scripted... we rehearsed it for days and then spent the better part of a week filming it. Billy Joe Redden could not play the banjo... that was music magic. The song was played by Eric Weisberg and Steve Mandel. That's the truth!!!"

Ronny Cox

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: catspaw49
Date: 04 May 11 - 07:51 AM

To Garg and Clint Westwood...........One additional note on the Billy Redden story. Although they knew he couldn't play banjo, they mistakenly assumed he could fake it or be taught to do so.   Didn't happen. So the extra steps of rigging up the sleeves with a real banjo player had to happen. Redden was wanted only for his made to order look................Billy Redden.....then and now


Spaw

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: GUEST,Clint Westwood
Date: 04 May 11 - 09:38 AM

what I did hear/read somewhere was that the old fella
breaking into old timey dance
was genuinely spontaneous and unscripted moment of real movie magic...

This may all be in the directors comments on the DVD, or not ?
It's so long since I last enjoyed the DVD I can't remember.

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: pdq
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:41 AM

The "soundtrack from Deliverance" was once as common in thrift stores as "Tapestry" by Carol King and some Tiajuana Brass record with a lady all covered in whipped cream on the cover.

It is not exactly "New Directions In Banjo and Bluegrass" by Weissberg and Brickman, but close.

It has three of four songs replaced and the order changed in some other places.

If you can get someone to scan the back of the 1963 record's album cover, you will have a listing of each solo on most of the songs. What most people leave out is the presence of Clarence White doing acoustic guitar on most of the earlier record's songs.

Brickman, Weissberg and White all play acoustic guitar on the album, but White's playing is special. I think it was his first work ever released.

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 04 May 11 - 11:56 AM

James Dickey (the author of "Deliverance") was himself an accomplished guitarist, and had quite an extensive collection of Martin guitars.

Jack Williams wrote and recorded beautiful song to commemorate Dickey's passing, called "The Old Buckdancer's Gone"

It has always annoyed me that in the book, the guitar played by the Ronnie Cox character was a Martin D-28, yet in the movie Ronnie Cox is playing an Epiphone.

Howe difficult would it have been for the producers to get that small detail correct ?

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: GUEST,Clint Westwood
Date: 04 May 11 - 12:51 PM

I beleieve this is one classic movie that truly deserves
an 'anniversary celebration' digital remaster.

Even in the latest DVD version the 'day for night' processed
cliff climb scene is still so diabolicaly poor quality
it confusingly looks like a botched attempt at deliberate trippy hippy
psycadelic solarisation 'dream-sequence' special FX.

It's realy so jarringly distractingly bad it ruins the flow and atmosphere of an otherwise great movie.

Surely, there must be some new digital post-production solution
to repair that scene ???

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: GUEST,Ref
Date: 04 May 11 - 07:55 PM

Murray, I expect that they deferred to Ronnie Cox, an outstanding musician and singer-songwriter, as to what guitar he wanted to play in filming that scene.

Subject: RE: Famous Tune Movie Deliverance
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 05 May 11 - 02:15 AM

How difficult would it have been to use the tune ' Wildwood Flower ' as James Dickey originally wrote in the book ?

Dave H