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American versions of Child 91?

DigiTrad:
FAIR MARY OF WALLINGTON


Related threads:
Lyr Req: Fair Maid of Wallington (June Tabor, #91) (3)
Lyr Add: Fair Mabel of Wallington (6)
Lyr Req: Bonnie Earl of Livingstone (4)


banjocircus 11 May 11 - 02:15 PM
Richard from Liverpool 11 May 11 - 04:01 PM
banjocircus 11 May 11 - 05:37 PM
Joe Offer 11 May 11 - 09:20 PM
Bill D 11 May 11 - 09:42 PM
Bill D 11 May 11 - 09:47 PM
banjocircus 12 May 11 - 03:28 PM
Bill D 12 May 11 - 04:27 PM
RTim 12 May 11 - 04:34 PM
Brian Peters 13 May 11 - 08:30 AM
RTim 13 May 11 - 09:15 AM
banjocircus 13 May 11 - 08:18 PM
Phil Cooper 13 May 11 - 09:23 PM
RTim 13 May 11 - 09:46 PM
Phil Cooper 13 May 11 - 10:33 PM
Bill D 13 May 11 - 11:12 PM
Phil Cooper 14 May 11 - 10:01 AM
banjocircus 15 May 11 - 08:43 AM
Phil Cooper 15 May 11 - 01:09 PM
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Subject: Folklore: American versions of Child 91?
From: banjocircus
Date: 11 May 11 - 02:15 PM

I am trying to find out of there are any American versions of Child Ballad 91, Mary of Wallington/Bonnie Earl of Livingston. Do you know of any and if so, where are they from and where can I find them?

Thank you,

Jonathan


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: Richard from Liverpool
Date: 11 May 11 - 04:01 PM

Sorry to answer with a negative, but I just did a sweep of the Roud Folksong Index (which I guess you might already have done) and couldn't see any mention of an American version there. Which doesn't mean there aren't any out there, but if any exist it's going to take quite a bit of digging I'm thinking...


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: banjocircus
Date: 11 May 11 - 05:37 PM

My thoughts exactly, and wondering (hoping) someone else may already have done it…


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: Joe Offer
Date: 11 May 11 - 09:20 PM

Not much in the Traditional Ballad Index, which lists mostly American sources - but in this case, it lists only Child, Bronson, and sources from the UK. I'll take a further look and see what I can find. Here's the Ballad Index entry:

    Fair Mary of Wallington [Child 91]

    DESCRIPTION: Of seven sisters, five have died in childbirth. The sixth would prefer not to marry, but is made to wed. She expects to die in childbirth, and does, with the child cut out of her after three days labor. The seventh sister can expect the same fate.
    AUTHOR: unknown
    EARLIEST DATE: 1776 (Herd)
    KEYWORDS: family marriage childbirth death
    FOUND IN: Britain(Scotland)
    REFERENCES (5 citations):
    Child 91, "Fair Mary of Wallington" (7 texts)
    Bronson 91, comments only
    OBB 81, "Fair Mary of Wallington" (1 text)
    Gummere, pp. 236-240+354, "Fair Mary of Livingston" (1 text)
    DBuchan 15, "Fair Mary of Wallington" (1 text)

    Roud #59
    File: C091

    Go to the Ballad Search form
    Go to the Ballad Index Instructions
    Go to the Bibiography
    Go to the Discography

    The Ballad Index Copyright 2010 by Robert B. Waltz and David G. Engle.


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 May 11 - 09:42 PM

There is a version by Phil Cooper under the name "Bonnie Earl of Livingston"


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 May 11 - 09:47 PM

see this CDBaby page


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: banjocircus
Date: 12 May 11 - 03:28 PM

I am familiar with that version of the ballad, but believe it to be of British, rather than American, origin. Do you have any information to suggest otherwise?


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: Bill D
Date: 12 May 11 - 04:27 PM

ahh...well, the singer is American...so, I guessed. I know of only 3 recordings.


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: RTim
Date: 12 May 11 - 04:34 PM

According to The Child Ballad site there are several more,
but none appear to be American.

Tim Radford

http://members.chello.nl/r.vandijk2/


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: Brian Peters
Date: 13 May 11 - 08:30 AM

According to Bronson this ballad "has not been found among the English-speaking peoples" since before Sharp's time and, since the melody to which Anna Brown sang it in Aberdeenshire was not notated, he assumed that no traditional tune would ever come to light. However, the information from the site linked by Tim, that James Carpenter notated a version from Bell Duncan, at least gives us hope of a tune. It doesn't look as though the ballad had a significant history in Amercia, though.


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: RTim
Date: 13 May 11 - 09:15 AM

Indeed Brian, according to the Carpenter Catalogue there are 2 texts, tune notations and even disc recordings by Bell Duncan.
However, these are still not generally available - but there may be copies in the VWML.
Also - if you have ever seen the notation or listened to the Disc recordings, they are not always of the highest standards - but anything is better than nothing!!

Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: banjocircus
Date: 13 May 11 - 08:18 PM

Thanks.

Jonathan


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 13 May 11 - 09:23 PM

Hi,

I'm the Phil Cooper that recorded Bonnie Earl of Livingston. Yes, I'm American. I made up the tune which was sung by Margaret Nelson and Kate Early on the recording mentioned. I heard the version recorded by Graham and Eileen Pratt. Their tune was Graham's. I was looking for a trad tune to use. I even put out a mudcat thread, which had no responses. So, I made up my own. I added a verse (she labored up, she labored down, etc), which you can trace to Prince Heathen. So, my version is totally inauthentic, but it works for me.


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: RTim
Date: 13 May 11 - 09:46 PM

Phil - all that matters is - It's authentic to you!!
Good luck.
Tim Radford


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 13 May 11 - 10:33 PM

Thanks Tim,

   That's what I always figured. It's just that I've seen too many scholastic sorts get too weird about sources and variants. I bring it down to "don't you actually like this stuff?" Otherwise it's too much like high school kids reciting their favorite Bible verses (don't send me down that road).


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: Bill D
Date: 13 May 11 - 11:12 PM

It's a good version, Phil... and it's not like there were 47 OTHER versions to emulate. Why, in 150 years, it may be considered as classic!


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 14 May 11 - 10:01 AM

Thanks, Bill.


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: banjocircus
Date: 15 May 11 - 08:43 AM

Thanks, Phil.

I enjoyed your version. It is a delightful tune and works well with the story. And if I'm looking for American variants, it'll do for that, too!

Jonathan


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Subject: RE: American versions of Child 91?
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 15 May 11 - 01:09 PM

Glad to be of service.


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