Tech: Home network kit?

Subject: Tech: Home network kit?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 28 May 11 - 09:15 AM

Is it very complicated to set up a home network to link two PCs?.

Danny has now got his "gaming" pc (spoilt child or what!) and some of the air conflict games allow challenges to other players online, so I was wondering if I was capable of linking our two PCs so I can try and thrash him.

I see Amazon have a kit advertised which apparently involves just plugging two boxes into two mains electric wall sockets plus the individual routers wherever you want them in the house, and apparently you can exchange files etc, but they don't make it clear if you can interact for such as games. I think they are Western Digital, anyone have any info on these please.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 28 May 11 - 01:50 PM

Home network is easy - you just need either a switch to go with your router and some network cards in teh computers and some network cables - tehn use the networking wizard.

If you want to avoid runnig cables you can go wireless but I refuse as it's both slow and unsecure.

The networking over the mains stuff seems to work, usually a lot faster than the internet itself, but it can be iffy over different floors of a house if they are on different fuses on teh fusebox and they do NOT like extension power leads to teh PC. BUT, and its a big but, while I was using them (I have now given up) I repeatedly fried teh bridges in modem-routers. I must have killed half a dozen. Since going back to cables system modem-router and switch I am running 3 pcs, two printers (one of them multifunction) and network storage with no problems - and I have in the past had a W95, 2 98SE and 3 XP machines and a Mac all happily on the same network (until the network storage decided to re-allocate the locations).

I don't game but I gather hanging too many things on can stuff your ping.

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 29 May 11 - 05:25 AM

Thanks Richard, I will have to look into network cards, but will probably have to get the local techs in to do it. Sounds expensive!

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: MikeL2
Date: 29 May 11 - 06:34 AM

hi

As Richard said you can go wireless. I chose this route and as a complete non-techy I now run three laptops, a desktop computer and a multifunction printer on the network.

Using wireless it was easy. No messy connectors etc etc.

Information is shared across the units both in and out without any problems.

The computers I have use XP, 2 on Vista and one on Windows 7.

I did have some slight problem with sharing data across Vista and Windows 7 but help and advice from here ( especially John in Kansas) pointed me in the right direction.

Hope this helps.

Cheers

Mikel2

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 29 May 11 - 07:20 AM

Wired and wireless G here on a network with 7 (Linux) PCs and a (dual boot - it can run Vista if it has to but is usually Linux) laptop. There is a faster Wireless N std.

Wireless is to enable the laptop to roam and has also has enabled other family members to use hand held devices when they have visited.

For the wired (which I prefer for speed and reliability - but cabling can be a pain - I actually ran a couple of legs outside the house to simplify my task), we are on gigabit and I do notice the difference between that and the previous 100-T when using mythtv and there are tv recordings etc. moving around.

All of the above are faster than our (typically) 1.5Mb Internet connection and I would guess which ever way the OP goes, the Internet would be the first bottleneck encountered (if encountered).

I've not tried the mains solution and would avoid it here because X10 (home automation) already goes down the power lines I've have read claims that the two can co-exist but I'm not entirely convinced, and our X10 is only just on the fringes of working in places as it is. Thinking of possible interference with this route. It might be OK (I haven't a clue) but I also noticed (when looking at one for our roof space) that certain types of pest deterrents can also send signals down the mains...

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 29 May 11 - 07:22 AM

Sounding better already, I would definitely like to go wireless.

Mike- did you put the network cards in yourself or get someone to do it. I think I could probably manage it with a bit of guidance if it's not too technical.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: Nick
Date: 29 May 11 - 07:40 AM

Are you sure you don't hae a network card in the machine? Pretty standard in any machine bought in the last 5+ years.

Go to Control Panel - System - Hardware - Device manager and look under Network Adapters and it will tell you.

If both have network card then you could physically connect the two machines by a 'crossover cable' - cost you about £1. Not highly sophisticated but it would work

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: olddude
Date: 29 May 11 - 07:46 AM

My friend, the computer I gave you has a network card in it so you are set there, all you need is an inexpensive switch. Radio shack or walmart or any big store. They are a little over 20 dollars US for a low end one for 5 computers.

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 29 May 11 - 08:12 AM

Dan, sorry mate, but I think you might be a little confused, I am JOHN, (wilbyhilbly) in the UK, you obviously gave a computer to someone else. Never mind I 'm glad I'm not the only one having "senior moments" :-)

Thinking of you mate,

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 29 May 11 - 08:39 AM

Nick, I had a look and it it lists these under Network Adapters.

1394 Adapter
Intel(R)PRO/100 VE Network Connection

Would this be them?

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 29 May 11 - 08:53 AM

That would be a 100-T wired network adaptor/card.

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: olddude
Date: 29 May 11 - 08:56 AM

Sorry John ... yup ... I get confused easily my friend

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 29 May 11 - 09:02 AM

And willyhillbilly, whichever way you go, you are best off with a hardware (wired or wired) router. There are ways of sharing Internet connections without but...

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: GUEST
Date: 29 May 11 - 09:50 AM

Same as I have on one of the machines I have at home

The article here shows how to do it

You can buy a 5m cable from many places (Eg here) for a £ or two. As long as you can run the cable between the two it will work.

I used this set up for a while at home to let my son have a connection in his room for internet and to share some files and it worked fine. Subsequently I bought a switch and cabled several of the rooms together but in its simplest form the above works easily.

I can't see why you couldn't play games but never tried myself. At the end of the day it is just a very simple connection between two computers - also allows internet sharing if you want.

I'm going wireless on Tuesday as I've just changed my ISP so that may be interesting!

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 29 May 11 - 09:51 AM

Sorry that was me on another machine

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: GUEST,Nick
Date: 29 May 11 - 10:02 AM

I subsequently bought one of these Network kits and have wiring to four rooms. Hardest thing is running the wires from upstairs to downstairs without annoying my wife - the other bits are easy. With four + computers in the house sometimes (when sons visit) I bought a Switch but if you have only two machines you could hard wire between two for probably £15

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 May 11 - 10:07 AM

Install network card?

Turn off computer.

Take off side.

Plug network card into the right slot. It will only fit in the right one. Tighten the screw that holds it in.

Put side back on.

Turn computer on.

Repeat for other computer.

Plug both into switch.

Run networking wizard on both computers.

Bingo.

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 29 May 11 - 10:13 AM

And boot power hungry (compared hw router) PC connected to Internet up and wait for it to connect (compared to always connected hw router) so you can use the Internet on the other other one, probably limit your configuration options...

To save about £30 on the job.

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 29 May 11 - 10:28 AM

Not sure what it's like but found a new wired/wireless adsl2+ modem/firewall/router for £9.95 + VAT here.

http://www.eclipsecomputers.com/product.aspx?code=FM-MR4CWG54

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 29 May 11 - 11:54 AM

Thanks all, I've discovered there are network cards in both machines so in the absence of instructions to do it wirelessly I think I'll invest in the kit that Nick suggested and just hope I can suss it out.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 May 11 - 02:07 AM

To do it wirelessly, you fit wireless network cards. These are commonly standard items on Laptops and other portable devices but not desktop PCs.

You would also be wanting either a wireless router (eg. the item I pointed to above for around £10) or a wireless access point.

In my case, I use a switch and a wireless access point. I live in an L shaped bungalow and the phone line comes in at one extreme (which is my room) and I have a wired router there. The most convenient location for wireless in terms of best coverage where it is most likely to be used however is the living room which is the other leg of the L and the access point is located in that room.

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 30 May 11 - 04:39 AM

Thanks Jon, we have a BT Homehub which is wired to my PC and Danny's is connected wirelessly via a USB BT wireless adapter for internet access.

Rather than mess about with trying to fit wireless network cards I think I'll go with the cables 'cos we are both on the same floor and his room is opposite my "workshop/study" so it shouldn't be too difficult to just cross the hallway.

However, maybe I am just thick, but I still don't understand how if both PCs are hooked to the same hub, why they can't interact with each other DUH!

John

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 May 11 - 04:58 AM

They should be able to interact with each other but they need to able to find each other. IP addresses are used for this.

This is another bit where a router device helps. Win PCs by default are configured to obtain an IP address automatically. The router contains what is called a DHCP (dynamic host control protocol) server and the PCs set to automatic will look for and query this to get thier IP addresses and everything should know where everything else is on the network.

If manual setting are used, things might not find one another even with a router because they are on different networks, eg. if one was set to 192.168.0.2 and another was set to 172.16.0.1, they are on different networks.

I think most commonly what's called a network mask of 255.255.255.0 is used, This means the first 3 sets of digits define the network and the last one identifies the device on the network, eg. 192.168.0.1 through 192.168.0.255 are different devices on the same (192.168.0) network.

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 May 11 - 05:07 AM

Should have added that a router has its own IP address and manual settings on PCs have to be for the same network as the router.

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 May 11 - 05:12 AM

One other thing to check is firewall settings on the PCs. They can block communication between the PCs;

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 May 11 - 05:33 AM

And stepping back a bit as I don't think I've made this clear. your BT Home Home Hub looks to be the device I am referring to as a wireless router. I can't see (other than settings) that there should be a problem with your existing equipment.

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 30 May 11 - 06:56 AM

Jon, I think we must be very close to coming up with something, when I click on "my network places" on my pc it comes up with the files on mine (my docs etc) but it also shows Danny's docs like this

My Documents on Danny (Jmn-1ccd300c4ca)

I can click on that and it shows his files, so does this mean we are "joined" now? if so I just have to find out how to "talk" to each other.

I'm getting excited..........

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 May 11 - 07:05 AM

Yes, you can see his computer OK. Check he can see yours too.

It's probably best if I leave what I think will now be Win specific issues (if there are any) to others. It's not an OS I use often.

Good luck.

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 30 May 11 - 07:16 AM

Thanks Jon.

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: MikeL2
Date: 30 May 11 - 08:53 AM

hi whb

I have been out for the week-end so have only just spotted your message.

Like you I am a complete non-techy. I explained my set up earlier and really all I did was to follow the Windows instruction for sharing data etc. Go to Control Centre and click on Network and Sharing.

My network is all devices are physically quite close each other and on the one floor.

I am not sure what you mean when you say you want to "talk to each other". We use the network to make documents, files etc available to each computer and for each to be able to send prints etc to the others.

All of my computers had network cards installed and as I say I just followed the Windows instructions.

Basically though all it entails is that you place your data that you wish to share in the "Public" folder. You then access this from the remote device.

This is an exceptionally simple network but it does exactly what we want from it.

Good Luck

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 30 May 11 - 09:26 AM

Hi Mike, we can access files from each pc now, the original idea for starting this in the first place was because Danny, my 9 yr old, wants me to go to war against him on one of his air conflict games which has multiplayer options on the internet. But I can't seem to get them to connect.

Having said that, we are a lot further forward due to the help and advice I've had on here in the last couple of days, so there is hope for us yet :-)

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 30 May 11 - 09:47 AM

wilbhillbilly, perhaps what you are stuck with now is specific to the game? It might be worth looking to see if they have online documentation or a support forum.

Off the top of my head, there could for example be a port that needs opening on the Homehub and/or PC firewall. Another possibility might be the game is not happy with 2 players using the same IP address (they have different addresses on your network but the outside one is one your Homehub obtains from BT).

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: Nick
Date: 30 May 11 - 09:51 AM

Some info here may help - not the right gamr but same principle

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: MikeL2
Date: 30 May 11 - 11:03 AM

hi whb

Sorry don't do games....but my 7 year old grandson comes on Saturday and I'll bet he knows. We old ones are so thick !!!! lol

Hope you manage it, I am sure someone here will help.

Regards

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Tech: Home network kit?
From: wilbyhillbilly
Date: 30 May 11 - 12:00 PM

BINGO!!!!!!

Nick, that was a great link. Through the advice on there we are now actually in combat, wirelessly, absolutely brilliant!

Only thing now is for me to try and fly this damn plane,I keep getting slaughtered by a nine year old, OH THE SHAME! and to make it worse he is flying a spitfire and I remember seeing them originally!

Many thanks to all contributors, you've made a young man (and an old one) very happy.