Great Watersons clip -1973

Subject: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: GUEST,Dom
Date: 29 May 11 - 12:37 PM

Just found this clip on youtube

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M4IKN9qPpUY

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 30 May 11 - 01:37 PM

Dom, what a great clip! Thanks for posting it.
Here's a blicky: The Watersons - I'm a Rover
Description reads: "The Watersons captured in 1973 for Alan Plater's television play
Land of Green Ginger, part of the BBC's Play For Today series."

And... your clip led me to some others, all from a 1965 documentary about them --
filmed by Derrick Knight (Lal's husband?) for the BBC: Travelling for a Living:

The Watersons "North Country Maid"
(There are some technical problems with this one, but they're worth putting up with.)

The Watersons "Hal-An-Tow"

The Watersons "30 Foot Trailer"

The Watersons "Bonnie Ship The Diamond"

To me, it was a revelation to see them all when they were so young...

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: Artful Codger
Date: 30 May 11 - 05:44 PM

A DVD of Travelling for a Living is included in the compilation Mighty River of Song. Other songs featured in the documentary were:

Jolly Waggoners
Three Score and Ten
The Coal Owner and the Pitman's Wife (sung by Louis Killen)
Jolly Old Hawk
Dido Bendigo (providing an example of how they worked up their songs)
Greenland Whale Fishery (with Killen)
The Barley and the Rye

I list these because clips of these songs, appropriated from the same source, may also be floating about in YouTubia.

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: GUEST,Dom
Date: 30 May 11 - 05:57 PM

yeah,great stuff, great film that,'travelling for a living'.

The land of green ginger clip is intriguing, who is the big,bearded guy singing with them, is that their Cousin,John Harrison as seen in the earlier clips.Would love to see the full film.Mike's performance in the clip is great..

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: RobbieWilson
Date: 30 May 11 - 06:25 PM

Excuse my ignorance please. Who is the tall man?

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: GUEST,Dom
Date: 30 May 11 - 06:38 PM

yeah,thats what I was wondering

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 31 May 11 - 12:03 AM

Tall man their cousin John Harrison, original member of group, who provided some guitar accompts when they were first formed early-60s. Big man with beard one Bernie Vickers, I think, who sang with them for a while during the 70s. That #4 spot was eventually, of course, filled by Martin Carthy when he entered the family.

Wikipedia worth consulting for history of the group.

~M~

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: Artful Codger
Date: 31 May 11 - 12:53 AM

Yes, my guess is that that tall, bearded man in the clip is Bernie Vickers, who joined the Watersons briefly when they re-formed in 1972, after Norma returned from working in Monserrat. (John was presumably still down south, where he'd gone to study with Sligo fiddler Michael Gorman, after the group disbanded in 1968, though he eventually resettled in Hull.) Vickers was soon displaced by Martin Carthy, Norma's new husband, who was recruited in the summer of 1972, but considering Carthy's many projects around that time, Vickers may have continued to sing with the Watersons for a while yet when Carthy wasn't available. A photo of the Watersons with this bearded gent appears in the Mighty River booklet just at the point where Vickers' involvement with the Watersons is mentioned, though in general the photos don't correlate closely with the text. I'm pretty sure John's not the man in the clip, given his appearance in the documentary and in the Mighty River booklet photos (including one where he's bearded).

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: Folkiedave
Date: 31 May 11 - 05:01 AM

I can add a little to this since I appear in the clip!! I am the one in the pale brown sweater with his back to the audience. My wife Helen is sat next to me and opposite us facing the canera are Graham and Eunice Mathers. When Folk Union One was formed Eunice was membership no. one.

When Norma came back from Montserrat the Watersons re-formed and John was down in London so Bernie Vickers - the tall bearded guy - joined the group. Their first concert back had Planxty as support. Bernie left shortly afterwards and Martin took his place.

The clip shown, and I seem to remember there are others from the same play - was filmed upstairs in the Haworth Arms Beverley Rd Hull. It was (and looking at the website still is) a student oriented pub near the University.

The TV company made the fatal mistake of supplying real beer and we all had a big singing session afterwards which led to someone falling off the stage whilst singing General Taylor.

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: GUEST,Gail
Date: 31 May 11 - 08:04 AM

And just to answer a question in the original post, Lal's husband was not called Derrick, though I suppose it's possible the film's maker was related to him.

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: GUEST,folkiedave
Date: 31 May 11 - 08:49 AM

Lal's husband was called George.

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: JennyD
Date: 31 May 11 - 10:36 AM

Thanks so much for this clip - I remember the Haworth Arms well at that time and this took me back a long way.

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: GUEST,Gail
Date: 31 May 11 - 12:19 PM

Me too, I was at Hull University from 1971-74, much of which period was spent in the Haworth and the Bluebell. I think we were lucky to live in one of the 'hubs' of the UK folk scene at that time.

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 May 11 - 12:22 PM

did Mr Ogilvy sing with them as well at some point

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: The Sandman
Date: 31 May 11 - 01:14 PM

peter? ogilvy

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: Artful Codger
Date: 31 May 11 - 01:27 PM

Pete Ogley was with them (along with John Harrison) when they were calling themselves "The Folksons". The Mighty River booklet says that they dropped the "twee" name for the family name in 1963, and that Pete left the group, which I assume means at about the same time.

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 31 May 11 - 01:28 PM

Thought I'd Google & see if I could find the whole documentary somewhere, and bingo: Watersons Travelling For A Living 1965 BBC

Also tried to find a link for the other one & found something here: Play for Today - Land of Green Ginger

Note: These may not work for everyone; Land of Green Ginger is an exe (type of Windows) file, so if you have a Mac you may not be able to access it --
unless you have a helpful friend with a PC. Travelling For A Living is in 3 parts and is a rar file, and may also be problematic if you have a Mac.

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: GUEST,Folkiedave
Date: 31 May 11 - 04:11 PM

Pete Ogley indeed began with the original Folksons. The story was that he felt they wouldn't get anywhere singing English traditional songs!!

He later became a member (founder member if I remember correctly) of Cockersdale. In his latest incarnation he was the man who built the set for the production of "Time Gentlemen Please" which the Demon Barbers et al are touring this year.

Spoke to him last year at the premiere of the show and he was in great form.

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: GUEST,Dom
Date: 01 Jun 11 - 01:53 PM

did the lineup in the film record anything? anything else on film of the watersons?

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: GUEST,Folkiedave
Date: 01 Jun 11 - 02:38 PM

As a foursome no. Bernie appears on some of the original Bright Phoebus tracks.

Subject: RE: Great Watersons clip -1973
From: Artful Codger
Date: 01 Jun 11 - 03:50 PM

The lineup in the documentary (John Harrison, Norma, Lal and Mike) recorded the first two Watersons albums, Frost & Fire (1965) and The Watersons (1966), as well as appearing on some anthologies. The re-formed group didn't record a full album until for pence and spicy ale (1975, with Carthy). See Reinhard Zierke's Watersons discography page for a more complete listing.