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Subject: Praties & Over there From: BobLusk Date: 19 Sep 99 - 09:58 PM In the "Famine Song" - Praties grow small it says: Note: Refers to the great potato famine of 1847-1848. Oddly enough, this song is probably a parody of a song, "The Wonderful Song of 'Over There'", published by Atwill in 1844. Another case of the parody outlasting the original. In any case, there are a large number of Ameerican parodies of this one. Does anyone know any more about this? "Over there" is in DGT as a American Southern song including a lot of the potato verses, but I have a feeling that the origional would be quite a bit different. Bob Lusk |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Praties & Over there From: dick greenhaus Date: 19 Sep 99 - 11:46 PM The "original" (published 1844) as available on the Levy Sheet music site. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Praties & Over there From: paddymac Date: 19 Sep 99 - 11:55 PM Bob; Dick - can either of you post the "original lyrics? This might also be a good song to ask 'catters for any parodies they know. |
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Subject: Lyr Add: OVER THERE^^ From: Joe Offer Date: 20 Sep 99 - 04:24 AM Another song to the same tune is the union song, Step by Step. Click here to get to The Wonderful Song of "OVER THERE!" "A Doleful Ballad, One of the 'Olden Time.'" Here's what I read from the Levy sheet music. Maybe somebody with better eyesight (or a better monitor) can make corrections: OVER THERE-Joe Offer-^^ |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Praties & Over there From: BobLusk Date: 20 Sep 99 - 07:57 PM Thanks for the replies. I'm trying to remember my Irish History. I know that 1847 was the big year of the potato famine. Had it started in '44 when the song was published? I don't think so. If not, what is the meaning of the song? Atwell I guess was a NY publisher? I'll have to look it up again. There was a derviation of this song collected in Vermont called Over Here. Curiouser and curiuser. Bob |
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Subject: Lyr Add: THE 'TATERS THEY GROW SMALL IN KANSAS^^ From: Sandy Paton Date: 21 Sep 99 - 12:29 AM Fellow I knew in the wheat harvest at Larned, Kansas, back in 1945, sang a version of "The 'Taters They Grow Small in Kansas" that was quite similar to published versions that I've seen since. The first verse is used as a chorus. THE 'TATERS THEY GROW SMALL IN KANSAS Oh, the 'taters they grow small in Kansas, The 'taters they grow small in Kansas. Oh, the 'taters they grow small And we dig 'em in the fall, And we eat'em, tops and all, In Kansas. Oh, they bake a skunk pie in Kansas, They bake a skunk pie in Kansas. Oh, they bake a skunk pie, And the crust is made of rye. You gotta eat it or you'll die In Kansas. Oh, they chew tobacco thin in Kansas. They chew tobacco thin in Kansas. Oh, they chew tobacco thin, And it dribbles down their chin, And they lick it up again In Kansas. Oh, the people never wed in Kansas. The people never wed in Kansas. Oh, the people never wed, Or so I've heard it said, They just tumble into bed In Kansas. Lots of versions of this to be found in the various collections. (Try Randolph, Fife, etc.) But this is the way I first heard it, and it's the way I sing it yet. Sandy ^^ |
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Subject: Lyr Add: PRATIES THEY GROW SMALL^^^ From: Philippa Date: 21 Sep 99 - 06:41 PM In Ireland the words are 'over here', while in America they're 'over there'. The potato blight hit Irish crops for three consecutive years, which largely accounts for the severity of the Great Famine (there were social and political factors as well, of course) So it's usually dated as starting in 1845. The blight rendered potatoes inedible; if only they were merely small. But any small potatoes edible potatoes would have had to be eaten, rather than planted as usual to provide a crop the next year. Whether or not this song actually arose from an Irish famine I leave for more knowledgeable Mudcatters to comment on. PRATIES THEY GROW SMALL Oh the Praties they grow small over here, over here Oh the Praties they grow small over here Oh the Praties they grow small, And they're failing since the fall So we eat them skin and all, over here.
Oh, I wish that we were geese in the morn, in the morn
But the God in whom we trust, over here, over here, |
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Subject: Tune Add: THE PRATIES THEY GROW SMALL From: alison Date: 03 Nov 99 - 08:07 AM Here is the usual Irish tune....
X:1
If you'd rather hear the tune without the hassle of translating try new MIDI site slainte alison |
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Subject: Lyr Add: OVER HERE^^^ From: wildlone Date: 07 Nov 99 - 07:22 AM A similar version OVER HERE. Oh,the praties they are small, Over here, over here ! Oh, the praties they are small, Over here! Oh,the praties they are small, And we dig them in the fall, And we ate them coats and all, Full of fear, full of fear.
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: GUEST,Bob Lusk Date: 27 Dec 09 - 01:45 AM There is still the question of how the song was published in NY in 1944 before the famine hit? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: MartinRyan Date: 27 Dec 09 - 05:14 PM There is still the question of how the song was published in NY in 1944 before the famine hit? Eighteen.... and it was the OTHER song! Regards |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: GUEST Date: 27 Dec 09 - 07:34 PM Mr. Lusk, You have posted less than 50 times in ten-years,both as a guest and as a member. What is your itch - regarding the Irish? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: GUEST,999 Date: 27 Dec 09 - 07:48 PM "1740 => First Irish potato famine, 1740-1741, due to The Great Frost of the prior year, causing devastating crop failure for Ireland, as well as most of Europe." "Great Irish Potato Famine, the famine in Ireland between 1845 and 1852 Highland Potato Famine, a major agrarian crisis in the Scottish Highlands from 1846 to 1857" |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 27 Dec 09 - 07:51 PM Thanks to Bob Lusk for reviving this thread; there seems to be a large group of songs with similar form, dating back to the 16th c. The earliest verses asociated with the Irish potato famine seem to be c. 1848. The song may have been bewailing the small size of the potato in crops 'over there', a pre-famine complaint. It is one I would like to know more about. I could find only notes about the copy at Levy, posted by Joe, but neither sheet music nor lyrics. david kidd 18 songs |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: Jim Carroll Date: 28 Dec 09 - 07:43 AM Georges Denis Zimmerman gives this as a foortnote in his songs of Irish Rebellion "Many recent anthologies quote wrongly as a song of the famine period Over Here (Oh, the praties they are small...). The air was learnt in South America and does not sound Irish; the words were written by A.P. Graves, (see Miss H. Galwey Old Irish Croonauns, p. 16). It was first printed in 1897, in Graves's Irish Folk Songs, pp. 76-77." Jim Carroll |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: GUEST Date: 23 Sep 23 - 12:41 PM I have a slightly different version of the tune, this from Ian Campbell's book "Come Listen" X:1 T:The Praties They Grow Small C:Traditional M:4/4 L:1/4 Q:1/4=110 K:G EF | GFED | E2EF | E2EF | E2EF | GFGA | B2AB | cBAG | F2EF | GFED | E2EF | E2EF | E2 || |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: Lighter Date: 23 Sep 23 - 02:24 PM This song wasn't originally about the potato famine at all: the 1844 publication date in New York undermines that idea, particular when the sheet music calls it "'A Doleful Ballad' One of the Olden-Time." So does the appearance of the "geese" stanza, exactly as we know it, a comical campaign song called "Cidercratic Lament to be Sing by All Good Locofocos on All Good Occasions - Air" My Name is Robert Kidd" in the "Spirit of the Age" (Woodstock, Vt.), Nov. 5, 1841. The song includes lines like "And there's the Buckeye State, gone to pot" and "Maryland too soon/ Has caught our sleeping coon,/ And slung him to the moon." It was based on a similar satire in the "Burlington [Vt.] Sentinel" of Dec. 3, 1838, which also included the geese. A writer in the "Lancaster [S.C.] Examiner" (Dec. 23, 1840), recalled hearing about the grease-accumulating geese during his schooldays, an unspecified number of years earlier. Nor is there anything Irish in the "Over There" lyrics. But it's still startling to see the "Freeman's Journal" of Dublin (Dec. 22, 1863) frankly assuming that the "Over There" song is American - and typically ridiculous. A "wonderful" song, as advertised on the sheet music, implies entertainment, not tragedy or pathos. There isn't much pathos in eating "clam pie," wishing to be "a geese," or accumulating "much grease" - over there or anywhere else. Consider this, from The Era Almanack [sic] and Annual 1872 (London: The Era, 1872): "We have heard a crowded house roar with merriment at one of his effusions, from which the following stanzas are extracted :— Potatoes they grow small — over there, Potatoes they grow small — over there, Potatoes they grow small: you must eat them tops and all — over there. "I wish I were a geese - over there, I wish I were a geese over there, I wish I were a geese: to accumulate much grease - over there. "Rubbish! we hear the reader exclaim, and rubbish undoubtedly it i; but “Laughter, holding both his sides,” is present whenever and wherever it is sung by the gentleman to whom we now allude." Or the Chicago Sunday Tribune (June 12, 1898), referring to the 1830s: "Wentworth...thought he would show them that a white man could sing as well as an Indian. Bringing out an old fiddle, he started to sing in the same droning chant as the Indians. I remember the first verse. If it was made up for the occasion or if it was one of the songs of the time I will leave unsaid: I wish I was a goose [sic] All forlorn, all forlorn, Eating corn, eating corn. I would accumulate much grease, All forlorn, all forlorn. "And this he kept up until both he and the Indians were exhausted." There are numerous newspaper references to the song on two continents, but a connection to the Famine has to wait till 1944 (Chicago Daily News, June 17). The source of information is Richard Dyer-Bennett. "Over There" gave birth not only to the satirical "In Kansas" (by 1889) but also to the bawdy "In Mobile" (by 1941). It's an interesting family tree. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: Lighter Date: 23 Sep 23 - 03:57 PM New York Tribune (July 28, 1873) (The Maumee River is in northwestern Ohio and northeastern Indiana.): "Even here on the Maumee...fever and ague and small potatoes were set to music, living long...in the immortality of indifferent song: The potatoes they grow small, On Maumee, on Maumee, And they eat them tops and all In Maumee." Detroit Free Press (Feb. 6, 1881): "Sixty years ago the home of Congressman Hurd was only heard of in song as the place 'where potatoes they grew small on Maumee.'" * St. Louis Post-Dispatch (Dec. 19, 1897), p. 14: Potatoes they grow small In Kansas; Potatoes they grow small In Kansas; Potatoes they grow small, And they dig ‘em in the fall, And they eat ‘em, skin and all In Kansas. “He also harped a stanza about roosters which lay eggs in Kansas.” * Chicago Daily Tribune (March 19, 1928): "The late [vaudevillian] Eddie Foy [1856-1928] sang: Potatoes they grow small in Kansas, Potatoes they grow small in Kansas. They plant them in the fall, And it doesn't rain at all, And they eat them skins and all in Kansas. There are no old maids in Kansas. There are no old maids in Kansas. When a girl is thirty-one, A policeman gets a gun And shoots her just for fun in Kansas. "And repeated calls for encores would exhaust Eddie's supply of verses until he simply sang the air to the words of 'Rub-a-dub-dub, rub-a-dub-dub.'" * There is also a scurrilous anti-Yale version: /mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=3921 |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: Lighter Date: 24 Sep 23 - 03:41 PM [Thomas Sheldon Andrews] "Ira Andrews & Ann Hopkinson, Their Ancestors and Posterity" (1879): "Now, when I was a boy [in the 1840s], I used to hear a song, a part of the first verse of which I still retain in my memory, and it is as follows: Tune— 'Captain Kidd.' Potatoes they grow small, in Maumee, in Maumee, The gals eat them tops and all, in Maumee. But I assure you the 'Superior 'was not a 'small potato' steamer...." (Small-potato = insignificant, inconsequential.) This "Maumee" version, which long antedates those with "Kansas," seems to have been rather familiar for decades in the Midwest. It could account for mutations into "Bombay" and "Mobile." |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: Lighter Date: 24 Sep 23 - 09:35 PM There's a text (no tune) of "Over There" in William Allen Hayes, "Selected Songs Sung at Harvard College, 1862-1866" (1866). The lyrics are essentially identical to those of the 1844 sheet music, except the "geese" stanza comes first, and the entire song is somewhat strangely titled "The Geese." |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Thompson Date: 25 Sep 23 - 02:27 AM Incidentally, the potatoes most commonly planted in Ireland as the main staple food, and for a huge proportion of people the only food, with milk and herring, during the famine years of 1845 to 1852, when the crop repeatedly failed, was the lumper, which grew to a size where one potato would be cradled in the arms. Lumpers are particularly subject to infection by the blight. In recent years there have been experiments in growing them, and their flavour was critically received… however, in a country and time when a man's typical diet was two stone (nearly 13 kilograms) of potatoes a day, they grew reliably. The blight hit all over Europe, including Scotland; it was particularly severe in Ireland because the British government - then the occupying power - refused realistic aid. In Scotland, where aid was provided, famine did not ensue. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: GUEST Date: 25 Sep 23 - 07:39 AM ^ 'tis a shame there's no "like" mechanism on this 'ere site, but thanks for the post, Thompson. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Lighter Date: 25 Sep 23 - 08:08 AM Potatoes are supposed to be planted in the spring - even in in Kansas. So the ridicule is more pointed in versions, like 1844, that note "They plant 'em in the fall" rather than "dig" them. The lines about shooting old maids appeared earlier in the Saturday Evening Post, Jan. 18, 1908, and chewing tobacco thin in the Lancaster [Wis.] Weekly Teller, Nov. 7, 1889. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Rex Date: 25 Sep 23 - 12:33 PM I have been merrily follow Lighter here and there on the Mudcat as he leaves little gems for me to pick up. Even a reference to the mighty Maumee. But Lighter, you mention a Cidercratic Lament sung by Locofocos in 1841. This seems to be leaning towards the Van Buren camp but could be Harrisonish. Either way, I cannot find it. If you have more of this ditty, would ye kindly share it? |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Lighter Date: 28 Sep 23 - 02:08 PM Thanks for the interest, Rex. Here's the complete song. All the states mentioned went for Harrison in 1840. Spirit of the Age (Oct. 1, 1841): CIDERCRATIC LAMENT. TO BE SUNG BY ALL GOOD LOCOFOCOS ON ALL GOOD OCCASIONS. Air: - “My name is Robert Kidd.” I There's Illinois and Maine, they are gone, they are gone, There's Illinois and Maine, they are gone; There's Illinois and Maine, Gone back to truth again, And from this ’tis very plain: We are done, we are done And from this ’tis very plain: We are done. II And old Varmount, the jade, follows suit, follows suit, And old Varmount, the jade, follows suit, And old Varmount, the jade, After all the vows she made, Has the Cidercrats betrayed, What a brute! what a brute! Has the Cidercrats betrayed, What a brute! III And Indiana too, what a shame, what a shame, And Indiana too, what a shame; And Indiana too, By instinct ever true, Has washed out all the blue From her name, from her name, Has washed out all the blue From her name. IV GRAND CHORUS. – All together! – now, then! – now! Oh, I wish I was a geese, all forlorn, all forlorn, Oh, I wish I was a geese, all forlorn, Oh, I wish I was a geese, ‘Cause they eat their grass in peace, And accumulate much grease Eatin’ corn, eatin’ corn And accumulate much grease Eatin’ corn. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Lighter Date: 28 Sep 23 - 03:00 PM The lines about Buckeye State and the "sleeping coon" (the symbol of the Whig Party) occur in a longer version, expanded to nine tedious stanzas, in the Nov. 12 issue of the same paper. Both of these seem to have been inspired by a similar 1838 satire on the defeated Ohio Whig governor Joseph Vance, which also featured the geese. It may not be coincidence that the earliest mention of it was in the "Maumee City Express" of Dec. 1. Various versions of the "Robert Kidd" song may have been in circulation at the time - including the hymn tune that carries "Wondrous Love." |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Lighter Date: 05 Oct 23 - 08:31 AM Western Kansas World (No. 24, 1894): "From the weird pen of Ewing Herbert, poet lariat [sic]: Rep. roosters lay eggs in Kansas; Roosters they lay eggs in Kansas. Roosters they lay eggs as large as beer kegs; They've whiskers on their legs in Kansas." Ewing Herbert (1866-1947) was editor of the Brown County World (Hiawatha, Kans.). |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Rex Date: 08 Oct 23 - 04:50 PM I've been out away from online material. Thank you Lighter for this complete 1841 song. And you even come up with a tie in to the Maumee verses. Very nice. I was recently looking upon that very Maumee. Much obliged, Rex, who is back in the Rockies |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Thompson Date: 11 Oct 23 - 02:45 PM Ach, I don't know. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Thompson Date: 11 Oct 23 - 02:45 PM (though when I was a child I remember it as "and they digs them in the fall) |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Lighter Date: 11 Oct 23 - 02:48 PM But evidently a minority practice - especially if, as in the song, fall planting results in such small potatoes you have to eat the "tops and all." |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: GUEST Date: 23 Sep 23 - 12:41 PM I have a slightly different version of the tune, this from Ian Campbell's book "Come Listen" X:1 T:The Praties They Grow Small C:Traditional M:4/4 L:1/4 Q:1/4=110 K:G EF | GFED | E2EF | E2EF | E2EF | GFGA | B2AB | cBAG | F2EF | GFED | E2EF | E2EF | E2 || |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: GUEST Date: 25 Sep 23 - 07:39 AM ^ 'tis a shame there's no "like" mechanism on this 'ere site, but thanks for the post, Thompson. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Rex Date: 25 Sep 23 - 12:33 PM I have been merrily follow Lighter here and there on the Mudcat as he leaves little gems for me to pick up. Even a reference to the mighty Maumee. But Lighter, you mention a Cidercratic Lament sung by Locofocos in 1841. This seems to be leaning towards the Van Buren camp but could be Harrisonish. Either way, I cannot find it. If you have more of this ditty, would ye kindly share it? |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Rex Date: 08 Oct 23 - 04:50 PM I've been out away from online material. Thank you Lighter for this complete 1841 song. And you even come up with a tie in to the Maumee verses. Very nice. I was recently looking upon that very Maumee. Much obliged, Rex, who is back in the Rockies |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: Lighter Date: 23 Sep 23 - 02:24 PM This song wasn't originally about the potato famine at all: the 1844 publication date in New York undermines that idea, particular when the sheet music calls it "'A Doleful Ballad' One of the Olden-Time." So does the appearance of the "geese" stanza, exactly as we know it, a comical campaign song called "Cidercratic Lament to be Sing by All Good Locofocos on All Good Occasions - Air" My Name is Robert Kidd" in the "Spirit of the Age" (Woodstock, Vt.), Nov. 5, 1841. The song includes lines like "And there's the Buckeye State, gone to pot" and "Maryland too soon/ Has caught our sleeping coon,/ And slung him to the moon." It was based on a similar satire in the "Burlington [Vt.] Sentinel" of Dec. 3, 1838, which also included the geese. A writer in the "Lancaster [S.C.] Examiner" (Dec. 23, 1840), recalled hearing about the grease-accumulating geese during his schooldays, an unspecified number of years earlier. Nor is there anything Irish in the "Over There" lyrics. But it's still startling to see the "Freeman's Journal" of Dublin (Dec. 22, 1863) frankly assuming that the "Over There" song is American - and typically ridiculous. A "wonderful" song, as advertised on the sheet music, implies entertainment, not tragedy or pathos. There isn't much pathos in eating "clam pie," wishing to be "a geese," or accumulating "much grease" - over there or anywhere else. Consider this, from The Era Almanack [sic] and Annual 1872 (London: The Era, 1872): "We have heard a crowded house roar with merriment at one of his effusions, from which the following stanzas are extracted :— Potatoes they grow small — over there, Potatoes they grow small — over there, Potatoes they grow small: you must eat them tops and all — over there. "I wish I were a geese - over there, I wish I were a geese over there, I wish I were a geese: to accumulate much grease - over there. "Rubbish! we hear the reader exclaim, and rubbish undoubtedly it i; but “Laughter, holding both his sides,” is present whenever and wherever it is sung by the gentleman to whom we now allude." Or the Chicago Sunday Tribune (June 12, 1898), referring to the 1830s: "Wentworth...thought he would show them that a white man could sing as well as an Indian. Bringing out an old fiddle, he started to sing in the same droning chant as the Indians. I remember the first verse. If it was made up for the occasion or if it was one of the songs of the time I will leave unsaid: I wish I was a goose [sic] All forlorn, all forlorn, Eating corn, eating corn. I would accumulate much grease, All forlorn, all forlorn. "And this he kept up until both he and the Indians were exhausted." There are numerous newspaper references to the song on two continents, but a connection to the Famine has to wait till 1944 (Chicago Daily News, June 17). The source of information is Richard Dyer-Bennett. "Over There" gave birth not only to the satirical "In Kansas" (by 1889) but also to the bawdy "In Mobile" (by 1941). It's an interesting family tree. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: Lighter Date: 23 Sep 23 - 03:57 PM New York Tribune (July 28, 1873) (The Maumee River is in northwestern Ohio and northeastern Indiana.): "Even here on the Maumee...fever and ague and small potatoes were set to music, living long...in the immortality of indifferent song: The potatoes they grow small, On Maumee, on Maumee, And they eat them tops and all In Maumee." Detroit Free Press (Feb. 6, 1881): "Sixty years ago the home of Congressman Hurd was only heard of in song as the place 'where potatoes they grew small on Maumee.'" * St. Louis Post-Dispatch (Dec. 19, 1897), p. 14: Potatoes they grow small In Kansas; Potatoes they grow small In Kansas; Potatoes they grow small, And they dig ‘em in the fall, And they eat ‘em, skin and all In Kansas. “He also harped a stanza about roosters which lay eggs in Kansas.” * Chicago Daily Tribune (March 19, 1928): "The late [vaudevillian] Eddie Foy [1856-1928] sang: Potatoes they grow small in Kansas, Potatoes they grow small in Kansas. They plant them in the fall, And it doesn't rain at all, And they eat them skins and all in Kansas. There are no old maids in Kansas. There are no old maids in Kansas. When a girl is thirty-one, A policeman gets a gun And shoots her just for fun in Kansas. "And repeated calls for encores would exhaust Eddie's supply of verses until he simply sang the air to the words of 'Rub-a-dub-dub, rub-a-dub-dub.'" * There is also a scurrilous anti-Yale version: /mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=3921 |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: Lighter Date: 24 Sep 23 - 03:41 PM [Thomas Sheldon Andrews] "Ira Andrews & Ann Hopkinson, Their Ancestors and Posterity" (1879): "Now, when I was a boy [in the 1840s], I used to hear a song, a part of the first verse of which I still retain in my memory, and it is as follows: Tune— 'Captain Kidd.' Potatoes they grow small, in Maumee, in Maumee, The gals eat them tops and all, in Maumee. But I assure you the 'Superior 'was not a 'small potato' steamer...." (Small-potato = insignificant, inconsequential.) This "Maumee" version, which long antedates those with "Kansas," seems to have been rather familiar for decades in the Midwest. It could account for mutations into "Bombay" and "Mobile." |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Req: Over There From: Lighter Date: 24 Sep 23 - 09:35 PM There's a text (no tune) of "Over There" in William Allen Hayes, "Selected Songs Sung at Harvard College, 1862-1866" (1866). The lyrics are essentially identical to those of the 1844 sheet music, except the "geese" stanza comes first, and the entire song is somewhat strangely titled "The Geese." |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Lighter Date: 25 Sep 23 - 08:08 AM Potatoes are supposed to be planted in the spring - even in in Kansas. So the ridicule is more pointed in versions, like 1844, that note "They plant 'em in the fall" rather than "dig" them. The lines about shooting old maids appeared earlier in the Saturday Evening Post, Jan. 18, 1908, and chewing tobacco thin in the Lancaster [Wis.] Weekly Teller, Nov. 7, 1889. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Lighter Date: 28 Sep 23 - 02:08 PM Thanks for the interest, Rex. Here's the complete song. All the states mentioned went for Harrison in 1840. Spirit of the Age (Oct. 1, 1841): CIDERCRATIC LAMENT. TO BE SUNG BY ALL GOOD LOCOFOCOS ON ALL GOOD OCCASIONS. Air: - “My name is Robert Kidd.” I There's Illinois and Maine, they are gone, they are gone, There's Illinois and Maine, they are gone; There's Illinois and Maine, Gone back to truth again, And from this ’tis very plain: We are done, we are done And from this ’tis very plain: We are done. II And old Varmount, the jade, follows suit, follows suit, And old Varmount, the jade, follows suit, And old Varmount, the jade, After all the vows she made, Has the Cidercrats betrayed, What a brute! what a brute! Has the Cidercrats betrayed, What a brute! III And Indiana too, what a shame, what a shame, And Indiana too, what a shame; And Indiana too, By instinct ever true, Has washed out all the blue From her name, from her name, Has washed out all the blue From her name. IV GRAND CHORUS. – All together! – now, then! – now! Oh, I wish I was a geese, all forlorn, all forlorn, Oh, I wish I was a geese, all forlorn, Oh, I wish I was a geese, ‘Cause they eat their grass in peace, And accumulate much grease Eatin’ corn, eatin’ corn And accumulate much grease Eatin’ corn. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Lighter Date: 28 Sep 23 - 03:00 PM The lines about Buckeye State and the "sleeping coon" (the symbol of the Whig Party) occur in a longer version, expanded to nine tedious stanzas, in the Nov. 12 issue of the same paper. Both of these seem to have been inspired by a similar 1838 satire on the defeated Ohio Whig governor Joseph Vance, which also featured the geese. It may not be coincidence that the earliest mention of it was in the "Maumee City Express" of Dec. 1. Various versions of the "Robert Kidd" song may have been in circulation at the time - including the hymn tune that carries "Wondrous Love." |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Lighter Date: 05 Oct 23 - 08:31 AM Western Kansas World (No. 24, 1894): "From the weird pen of Ewing Herbert, poet lariat [sic]: Rep. roosters lay eggs in Kansas; Roosters they lay eggs in Kansas. Roosters they lay eggs as large as beer kegs; They've whiskers on their legs in Kansas." Ewing Herbert (1866-1947) was editor of the Brown County World (Hiawatha, Kans.). |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Lighter Date: 11 Oct 23 - 02:48 PM But evidently a minority practice - especially if, as in the song, fall planting results in such small potatoes you have to eat the "tops and all." |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Thompson Date: 25 Sep 23 - 02:27 AM Incidentally, the potatoes most commonly planted in Ireland as the main staple food, and for a huge proportion of people the only food, with milk and herring, during the famine years of 1845 to 1852, when the crop repeatedly failed, was the lumper, which grew to a size where one potato would be cradled in the arms. Lumpers are particularly subject to infection by the blight. In recent years there have been experiments in growing them, and their flavour was critically received… however, in a country and time when a man's typical diet was two stone (nearly 13 kilograms) of potatoes a day, they grew reliably. The blight hit all over Europe, including Scotland; it was particularly severe in Ireland because the British government - then the occupying power - refused realistic aid. In Scotland, where aid was provided, famine did not ensue. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Thompson Date: 11 Oct 23 - 02:45 PM Ach, I don't know. |
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Subject: RE: Origins: Over There From: Thompson Date: 11 Oct 23 - 02:45 PM (though when I was a child I remember it as "and they digs them in the fall) |
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