Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)

Subject: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 12:51 PM

Sad news, Amy has just been found dead, heavy week on drugs I am told. She had a great talent.
RIP

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Bobert
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 12:56 PM

Bummer...

B~

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: olddude
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 12:57 PM

Oh that is sad indeed a very talented young lady ... gosh .. when will they ever learn huh ...

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:02 PM

Blimey - Talent gone to waste yet again. Harks back to the 60s and 70s when we had a whole spate of them. I was devastated when I heard the news about both Hendrix and Sandy Denny. I didn't think that another would bother me to much but Ms Winehouse, for all her faults, was a very talented lady.

Sad to read that her Father did not yet know when the story broke - He was on a plane on his way to a Jazz festival. Poor bloke.

Commiserations to him and all the family.

DtG

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:04 PM

Blimey, that is really sad. She was so talented. RIP Amy. It's such a shame that she had to resort to the drugs. She needed a lot of support, but at the end of the day, she was in charge of herself.

Drug dealers have a lot to answer for.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:06 PM

I gotta say it.

She shoulda gone to rehab.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:09 PM

I was so shocked to hear this news. Amy Winehouse was so talented and I loved her music. This is so sad.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:12 PM

Well done, Jack - Got ot out of the way and made me laugh anyway :-)

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:16 PM

Shocked but not surprised sums it up best. I don't follow her music but it was hard to miss her activities in the news.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Wesley S
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:19 PM

Amy Winehouse, the beehived soul-jazz diva whose self-destructive habits overshadowed a distinctive musical talent, was found dead Saturday in her London home, police said. She was 27.

Winehouse shot to fame with the album "Back to Black," whose blend of jazz, soul, rock and classic pop was a global hit. It won five Grammys and made Winehouse — with her black beehive hairdo and old-fashioned sailor tattoos — one of music's most recognizable stars.

Police confirmed that a 27-year-old female was pronounced dead at the home in Camden Square northern London; the cause of death was not immediately known. London Ambulance Services said Winehouse had died before the two ambulance crews it sent arrived at the scene.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:28 PM

An object lesson for those who would emulate her, but will they learn from it?
Probably not!
There are 90+ people who died in Norway yesterday, far more deserving of out sympathy, and condolences.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: goatfell
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:32 PM

? so what about the people in Norway eh? it sad that she is deadbut what about norway and their dead

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:38 PM

I agree about the people in Norway, but that is a seperate thread, or should be. This thread is about a musician called Amy Winehouse.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:38 PM

She was in the Koko nightclub on Wednesday and Thursday nights, was completely out of her head, hasn't been since Friday morning. She was very troubled and so called friends were nothing more than hangers on. She did try to go level several times, but the deadheads arounds saw no mileage in that for their sad lives.

I agree goatfell, those poor families in Norway are in all our thoughts, but that was the actions of a madman. It has nothing to do with her death.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:40 PM

Errrr - Just what is the point of spoiling someones obit by saying that others are somehow more deserving. Those poor innocents in Norway are do warrant our deepest sympathies but why bring them up here?

Start your own thread on the Norwegian tradgedy if you like but I honestly believe there is no mileage in bringing it up to detract from Amy's death.

Is there?

D

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:44 PM

Such a shame. She was too weak to resist the leeches who pushed her towards celeb status too fast just to suck her dry, the jackals who bit at yher heels every step and that hyena that turned her on to crack and heroin. She had one hell of a voice, but all the rest of it was too much-too soon.

Record industry moguls, promoters, celebrity hacks, Fielder-Civil, I hope your sleep is full of nightmares for what you destroyed.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:46 PM

She's responsible for her own life and death--the latter, by the way, being no particular shock to me

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:48 PM

Agree with you whole heartedly George.

How terrible for her parents.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: paula t
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:50 PM

Very sad news indeed.Such a wonderful,raw talent. Any loss of a young life is a tragedy. No matter what the circumstances.My thoughts go out to her parents.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: George Papavgeris
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:51 PM

...or to anyone else, josepp. Yes, we are all responsible for our own life and death. But we are not islands - if we drive others towards the cliff we are responsible for their death too.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:53 PM

An object lesson for those who would emulate her, but will they learn from it?
Probably not!
There are 90+ people who died in Norway yesterday, far more deserving of out sympathy, and condolences. <<

I hope Winehouse becomes an object lesson for people who refuse rehab. That is what she is famous for.

The people in Norway are deserving of our sympathy and condolences. So is Miss Winehouse and her family and fans. I am sure we have enough sympathy and condolences for both.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: MikeL2
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 01:57 PM

Hi

Sad news indeed - but I suppose it is not a surprise. By no means a fan of Amy or her music but I believe she had much to offer if she had been properly managed and handled.

I feel for her parents and family.....sad sad news indeed.

Mikel2

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:00 PM

Anyone with the problems Amy Winehouse had is deserving of sympathy ..... there but for the grace of God ........

I feel so sorry for her family and so sad for her.

She was a wonderful and interesting performer; she had a great talent.

Here she is singing a song I love:

Back To Black

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: SINSULL
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:04 PM

Jack,
My son has been in and out of rehab 6 times - each time ready to go thru life drug free. It rarely works. Eighteen years later, he is still an addict and a danger to himself and everyone who comes in contact with him.
Now let the woman rest in peace. She chose her way. She has paid a sad price.
RIP
SINS

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Arkie
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:12 PM

This is indeed tragic. Double so because she was a troubled soul and a gifted artist. I had an album on my computer because I wanted to hear her. I finally deleted the album because of the awful racket that was going on while she was singing. She did have a fine almost mystical voice and wrote some good songs which might be around for a while.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:13 PM

Amy had nothing to do with Norway, believe me, yesterday she would have been unaware who she was, let alone know what was happening elsewhere in the world.

Yes she took drugs, yes she drank, made a fool out of herself, yes she smoked, are you perfect ?? She was also once a beautiful child loved by her family, yes it is possible she took her own life directly or indirectly. She brought happiness to those of us who loved her voice. Come on, respect her, respect her family and leave the souls of Norway out of this please.

Norway has crippled many of us today, young people starting out in life, families left with mums and dad's. Amy's death and those events are poles apart. Please respect that.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: skipy
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:15 PM

Sad event, Yes, but Norway is 10,000 times worse.
Skipy
RIP all.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Tootler
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:32 PM

Sad waste of a young life. Yes she had talent even if her style was not my taste. I feel for her parents who have tried their best without success.

No, Norway is not 10,000 times worse. Why do you have to make such odious comparisons? Both events are tragic in their own way and to those directly involved, the grief they feel is just as great.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: Jeri
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:33 PM

She chose it. It's always a choice, and a person can choose many times, as long as they're still around. Sometimes it takes one try, and sometimes it takes 20. I feel worse for her loved ones who probably kept hoping she'd make a different choice.

She is out of it all. They will carry it through their lives.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:35 PM

Drug addiction, alcoholism etc are terribly difficult to understand, and even harder to overcome. I have seen prisoners who are addicts, they were totally in the grip of their drugs. I don't think they could have stopped themselves, no matter how much they wanted to. I'm truly very sorry for this talented young woman. 27, world-famous and yet her life is now over. Her father, particularly, tried to help her, but addiction is notoriously hard to 'cure'. Let's not judge in any way. R.I.P.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:38 PM

I think it's utterly distasteful to rate one death as worse over another. There's no difference to the people who mourn their loss.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: DebC
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:40 PM

I lost a brother to drug addiction. It's so hard to watch a loved one self-destruct knowing that you have done all that you can do. In the end the only thing you can do is let the person know that you love them.

I don't know about Ms. Winehouse except for the snippets I'd see in the press.

I am sorry for tragic death everywhere.

Debra Cowan

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: skipy
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:41 PM

Please yourself, 1 was a suicide, the others where a slaughter
Skipy

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:43 PM

There are 90+ people who died in Norway yesterday, far more deserving of out [sic] sympathy, and condolences.

That is a rhetorically stinky way to argue about the value of any life.

No one deserves to die an ugly, painful, or violent early death.

From the reactions, it seems that Winehouse had a true talent and was something I perhaps should have paid attention to. Alas, too late, and she way way too young to be silenced.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:48 PM

I am not fit to judge the lives of others who smoke, drink or use drugs, are you ? Is your lungs and liver in good shape ?

Please stop comparing the murders in Norway with the death of Amy. They have nothing in common. Thanks for that.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:50 PM

So sad, and a terrible waste.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Zen
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:54 PM

RIP Amy. Another talent sadly lost.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: I don't know
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:54 PM

May she now R.I.P. A trouble girl at peace I hope. condolances to the family.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,wot?
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:55 PM

You're all assuming that Amy died from an overdose. Wait for the fucking inquest, please!

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 02:56 PM

Agreed, Bluesman. The only thing in common is that they happened about the same time.

I find something a bit pathetic about people who have to establish a league table as to which sad incident is sadder than which other one. The reductio ad absurdum of that is to say that after the Holocaust nothing matters: I have heard it said. But it is an anti-life, negative world view.

Sympathy enough in my heart to feel sorrow and distress for the Norwegian victims and for the lovely but troubled Amy Winehouse. Why should I, or anyone else, try to evaluate these sympathies? Where can I buy the sensitive chemical balance to weigh them up?

~Michael~

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: fat B****rd
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 03:10 PM

I listened to her duetting with Tony Bennett - who was full of praise and affection for her - on the radio last night. What a waste of a talent. When I first heard her she seemed like a breath of fresh air.
RIP Amy.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 03:14 PM

Very sad...what a waste

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 03:29 PM

This is the song that made her famous.
She should have listened to her father.
She should have gone. She should have tried.
This song should not be an excuse for other young people not to try.

Rehab
Amy Winehouse



They tried to make me go to rehab, I said, "No, no, no"
Yes, I've been black but when I come back you'll know, know, know
I ain't got the time and if my daddy thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rehab, I won't go, go, go

I'd rather be at home with Ray
I ain't got seventeen days
'Cause there's nothing, there's nothing you can teach me
That I can't learn from Mr. Hathaway

I didn't get a lot in class
But I know we don't come in a shot glass

They tried to make me go to rehab, I said, "No, no, no"
Yes, I've been black but when I come back you'll know know know
I ain't got the time and if my daddy thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rehab, I won't go, go, go

The man said, "Why do you think you here?"
( From: http://www.elyrics.net/read/a/amy-winehouse-lyrics/rehab-lyrics.html )
I said, "I got no idea"
I'm gonna, I'm gonna lose my baby
So I always keep a bottle near

He said, "I just think you're depressed
Kiss me, yeah baby and go rest"

They tried to make me go to rehab, I said, "No, no, no"
Yes, I've been black but when I come back you'll know, know, know

I don't ever wanna drink again
I just, ooh, I just need a friend
I'm not gonna spend ten weeks
Have everyone think I'm on the mend

And it's not just my pride
It's just 'til these tears have dried

They tried to make me go to rehab, I said, "No, no, no"
Yes, I've been black but when I come back you'll know, know, know
I ain't got the time and if my daddy thinks I'm fine
He's tried to make me go to rehab, I won't go, go, go

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 03:34 PM

I merely pointed out the difference between voluntary, and involuntary!

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 03:45 PM

Very sad news ..... we lost a great talent today.

My deepest sympathies go out to her family.

biLL

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,Frug
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 03:46 PM

Saw Amy a couple of years ago at V Festival in Stafford. She sang brilliantly but looked frail, lonely and forlorn and scared to death. I don't know what demons haunted her but guess they were similar to those that ultimately killed my brother who was a very talented musician with the same dependencies as Amy. Sadly I lost two brothers relatively close together, one was an alcoholic and drug addict, the other a successful family man. I loved them both, I miss them both in equal measure.

Not sure why Amy's death is being linked to the tragedy in Norway apart from the fact that deaths involved, each circumstance is deserving of our sensitivity and sympathy.

Frank

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 03:50 PM

The Amy I Knew by Dean Piper

Amy's talent was so huge it is completely incomprehensible to believe that we've lost this voice. When she sang you stopped, looked and listened. She's was truly magnificent. Raw, attention grabbing and full of emotion.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 03:51 PM

well said Mike

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 04:12 PM

I've known too many musicians in my life to feel sorry for one like Amy Winehouse. They jump into stuff that I told them to investigate first and they didn't listen. The result is that they're dead and I'm not. I was in a band where a big fan of ours was also a cokehead. He supplied us with all the coke we wanted for free. He would call us over to his house to do coke with him--absolutely free. I took a look at my guitarist and I thought, "He'll let this asshole ruin his life and I have no intention of becoming a cokehead." I stopped talking to the guy--period. I stopped having anything to do with him. When my guitarist wanted to know why, I told him, "Because he's ruining himself on that crap and he'll ruin you too if you let him." I didn't try to talk him out of hanging out with the guy because it wouldn't do any good. I told him what I thought and he could act as he saw fit. After a couple more months he admitted he had to stop hanging out with the guy because he was getting hooked on that crap. But he had that personality like Winehouse and a few years later ended up a delerious alcoholic in the hospital anyway.

Some people have no sense. You have to police yourself. If you can't, well, I guess that's too bad. I've met too many people with these addictive personalities and I'm sick of it. If you're killing yourself and you know you're killing yourself then I don't have time to waste crying crocodile tears over you. Maybe you could be considerate enough not to put those that love you through this misery. I don't want to hear about your personal bullshit demons. We all have them--what makes yours so much more important than mine that you have to go killing yourself over it and make me miserable at your death? Get a fucking grip.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 04:20 PM

But josepp, the whole point is that they just can't 'get a grip'. They would if they could. They're helpless in the face of the addiction. It's easy for you to step back from these things because you're lucky enough to have the kind of personality that takes control of your life. But others haven't got this in them. It isn't deliberate, they would probably give anything to be able to change. I've worked with addicts in prison, and I've seen how powerless they were to stop. I agree they wreck families and cause grief to their parents etc. But we can't judge them, as they can't help it.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Megan L
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 04:37 PM

Time blew the dandelion clock
The seeds all flew away
Some they landed on the soil
Some to the rocks did stray
But each one was a little seed time blew upon today

Meg

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 04:37 PM

////But josepp, the whole point is that they just can't 'get a grip'. They would if they could.////

And I'm suppposed to cry for them over that? There was a time when I smoked tobacco. One day I stopped. No drama. I just stopped one day.

I used to smoke huge amounts of pot. Ditto as above.

////They're helpless in the face of the addiction.////

And whose fault is that? Nature's?

////It's easy for you to step back from these things because you're lucky enough to have the kind of personality that takes control of your life.////

It's a matter of not letting anything control me. I cannot allow myself to be owned by anything. If I even think there's a possibility that I might be unable to give something up, I immediately give it up.

////But others haven't got this in them.///

I know that. They don't want to control themselves. They want others to control them. They can't handle the responsibility of being their own parent and saying no to themselves and that makes them the most pathetic thing in the universe.


////It isn't deliberate, they would probably give anything to be able to change. I've worked with addicts in prison, and I've seen how powerless they were to stop. I agree they wreck families and cause grief to their parents etc. But we can't judge them, as they can't help it.////

I'm not buying that. That's letting them control you. As I said, I will not be owned by anything addictive--least of all an addict.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: skipy
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 05:06 PM

Ignoring what is here on "the cat" go onto your facebook accounts, or other accounts & take a look at the level of sympathy that is out there, I don't think you will find it to be very high.
RIP, YES! & I have already said that, sorry for friends & relatives YES also.
Skipy

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,livelylass
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 05:07 PM

RIP Amy




PS: There are people on this thread who have also lost family members to drugs. Josepps polemics here are both distasteful, inappropriate and unwanted.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 05:20 PM

The truth hurts, doesn't it? And if you think that was distasteful, I'll go you one better:

Amy Winehouse died the death she always wanted. The great legend who was so tragically taken from us too early but who will lalways live in our hearts--blah blah blah. How do I know? Because, believe it or not, you're not the only one who lost a loved one to addiction.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: SINSULL
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 05:24 PM

It's OK lass. It isn't as if we haven't heard it before. And from our own families.
Amy has moved on and is safe from the diatribes. She rests.
SINS

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Megan L
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 05:27 PM

everyone who died anywhere in the world today was someones son or daughter.

My mother used to say "If you cant say something nice do not say anything " min whit a richt lot oh silence there wid be here at thon rate.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Commander Crabbe
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 05:30 PM

You've got a lot of choices. If getting out of bed in the morning is a chore and you're not smiling on a regular basis, try another choice. ~Steven D. Woodhull

RIP

CC

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 05:38 PM

I can't help thinking that having so little concern and sympathy, not only for the dead girl, but for her relatives who might turn these comments up inadvertently in an internet search, says much about some people's need to feel superior to the less fortunate.

If you have nothing good to say in a thread such as this, why bother to expose your heartlessness?

It is a sad waste of a young and talented human being, whose crime was to be controlled by people almost as heartless, and if you can't find any compassion for her, at least respect the feelings of her family who have lost somebody they knew, and loved, better than any of you.

Don T.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: skipy
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 05:42 PM

A good friend of mine (& a very good engineer during the years that I employed him) lost a battle to/with the bottle & passed away Xmas day last year, we all did what we could to help for years but to no avail, the only one who did nothing to help was he himself, so YES I DO understand the situation, but there comes a point that you have to accept & wait for the outcome that you know will be death. By the time that that has happened you are out of sympathy & a harsh as it may sound, all his mates where glad that it was over for him as he had been living in pain, so far gone that the social system could not help him in anyway.
RIP my mate Mick Nulty (they say you are not forgotton if someone remembers your name after you are gone).
Skipy

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 06:11 PM

There is no need for me to use words like using a dead girls obituary to try and win useless points on a trivial internet forum is there? Hopefuly people will understand that such things are pretty sick. Those are my last words on the subject apart from, 'Rest in Peace? Fat chance...'.

DtG

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: gnu
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 06:17 PM

Megan L and SINS (and others)... wise words.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 06:25 PM

Seems Amy joins the 27 Club - along with Robert Johnson, Jimi Hendrix, Marc Bolan, Jim Morrison, Brian Jones, Kurt Kobain, Janis Joplin...

http://entertainment.timesonline.co.uk/tol/arts_and_entertainment/music/article4567970.ece

RIP.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: JennieG
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 06:29 PM

27 is the age, isn't it.....Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin, Kurt Cobain, James Morison, Brian Jones of the original Rolling Stones.....and now Amy Winehouse.....all died aged 27. While I didn't follow either her music or her life, it is too young to lose anyone - condolences to her family.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 06:33 PM

Amy's was, I believe, the last CD I ever bought (2006-ish?). And before that, I hadn't bought a CD in a long time, much less a 'pop' (you know what I mean) CD.

Point is, I liked the music enough to go to a record store and buy a CD -- which is rare in this day, for someone like me.

I even departed from my regularly scheduled programme of 'rousing' shanties to perform one of her songs on my Youtube channel.

(No self-promotion here; far from it -- the singing is poor, and the guitar-playing worse. But a lot of 'folk' music people here will know that if you like a song, you just sing it! And hers were good songs.)
Love is a Losing Game

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Lox
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 07:00 PM

Unfortunately Josepps prejudice is not supported by science.

The fact is that people ARE born addicts.

At least, in so far as their dopamine levels and the stability of their dopamine production is concerned.

Links between dopamine levels and addiction are pretty well established.

Addiction is an illness, just like schizophrenia is an illness, or cancer, or hepatitis.

Amy winehouse lived a miserable existence but brought us some moments of great beauty and soulful depth.

She wasn't famous because of her looks, nor because of her drive or sense of self entitlement.

It was her music and her voice and the heart with which she sang that made us want to know who she was.

Thanks Amy - RIP

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,number 6
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 07:06 PM

Well said Lox.

biLL

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Nick
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 07:09 PM

Just watching a tribute to her on TV and whatever she was like I just enjoy her singing. It seems a sad waste of a life as well as a talent.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 07:29 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xMyQfHWEOh0

Well said, Lox. And stop being your usual tosseriferous self for minute, eh, josepp.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 07:30 PM

a minute

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,Josepp
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 08:11 PM

////Unfortunately Josepps prejudice is not supported by science.

The fact is that people ARE born addicts./////


That is absolutely untrue. Addiction is a compulsion that entails obsessing over the substance or activity one is addicted to. The addict simply has to have it. There is NO POSSIBLE WAY a newborn infant can have such thoughts. They can be born dependent on drugs if the mother was addicted to them at the time of birth but that is not an addiction because addiction entails an obsession with the substance and not a mere dependency.

I can tell you never had to deal with addicts in your life. I had to learn all about it.

It's true that some people seem more predispposed towards becoming addicts than others that might be genetic. But no one knows to what extent this is true. But regardless noe one is BORN an addict--impossible.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 08:23 PM

Well josiedude, it's also true that some people seem more predisposed towards becoming assholes than others................Many of us can tell that by your postings on this thread.


Spaw

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 08:33 PM

Well said, catspaw. Josepp wouldn't know how to put up a tasteful, appropriate post if he had a ten-foot high sign next to his computer giving him step-by-step instructions. He talks like he has history but he writes like a headstrong 16-year-old with nil experience of life.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,josepp
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 08:36 PM

Yeah whatever.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: catspaw49
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 08:44 PM

Make that 13 year old................

Spaw

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: buddhuu
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 08:53 PM

Some of you people are fucked up. Oh, so smug, so clever, so judgemental.

Amy Winehouse was a very fine singer. Someone used the words "breath of fresh air". Damn right.

Real talent. That is rare enough that we should all mourn its premature passing.

Ms W made some mistakes and unfortunate decisions. We all do. We're all human. Many of us are lucky enough to survive the mistakes we make, Amy wasn't. Personally, I am very sorry about that. Very sad indeed.

I could hardly believe some of what I read. Regardless of cause of death, regardless of talent, a young girl of just 27 dies and some of you feel the need to score points off her for her failings?

Well, fuck you.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: BrooklynJay
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 09:55 PM

I can't say in the beginning I knew very much - or anything - about her music. But there's an expression, "Teachers by their students are taught." It proved to be quite true in my case: Over the last couple of years, I heard about (and learned about) Amy Winehouse from my students. I'm referring to her music; her sad battles with her addictions were already known to me from media coverage.

Deep down, I hoped she'd be able to weather the storms, conquer the demons, or whatever other phrase you want to use. She had talent. I wanted to see her triumph. And sadly, it was not to be.

I'm old enough to remember nearly all the musicians mentioned earlier in this thread who died too young (except Robert Johnson). Whether or not it was "expected," it's still tragic to have to add a talented singer like Amy Winehouse to that list.

My heart goes out to her family. To lose her must be devastating. To lose her in such a public way must be unimaginably heartbreaking.

RIP, Amy.

Jay

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: squeezyjohn
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 10:02 PM

The long and short of it ... very sad. Nobody's fault really. Human beings are designed to have very little down time in between sleeping and hunting/gathering food - but we do have an awful lot of leisure time in modern times. Some make the most beautiful art with this free time and others self-destruct - and a very special few do both and it comes to our attention, like in this case.

Even sadder is that some use that time to play golf which is benign AND useless to others!

Amy Winehouse is dead and that is an awful thing because she is/was a person with real alive people who knew her and will be very upset.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 Jul 11 - 10:35 PM

Well say what you like - it wasn't folk music. Not in the real sense. I bet if Cecil Sharp and Jim Carrol had happened upon Amy's caravan and said sing us some old songs and she'd sung that stuff off the first album.

They would have said, nay lass! you're not doing a floorspot at our club. By the 1954 definition - its complete bollocks.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Musket
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 04:16 AM

Huge talent, issues holding onto reality and dying at 27.

All a bit rock & roll really.

When rock stars were popping off like flies, I was saddened but being young assumed this was how life was.

Now, all I can think is I have a lad her age. Waste of talent? Waste of life.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: alanabit
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 06:06 AM

Even if she had not gone on to make great music, she may at least have gone on to be a happy, fulfilled woman and had friendships - even children. One feels for her family and her real friends. Unfortunately, my thoughts will also turn to the drug suppliers, who preyed upon her - and that includes the alcohol and cigarette pushers. She suffered from emphysema, which made cigarettes a lethal drug for her.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 06:22 AM

You realise there'll be kids turning up at your local folk club from tomorrow and in 30 years time inspired by the songs and singing of Amy.

It just makes you realise the real heroes of the folk revival are the club organisers who will facilitate and help these people. Folk music is what the people want it to be,

The preservers of the tradition, and the people who want to use folk as an adjunct to the entertainment industry - there just two sides of the same bad penny that keeps turning up.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Richard from Liverpool
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 08:59 AM

A brilliant singer who wrote beautiful songs. Perhaps the greatest musician of the 00s.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: glueman
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 10:29 AM

Amy Winehouse was prodigiously talented as a singer and songwriter. If she could have kept herself together she'd have gone down as one of the great white jazz/soul singers. She seemed burdened by her abilities, as though genius had been installed in a regular north London girl without any consent.
RIP Amy.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 11:23 AM

Why are we at war with a country that produces 75% or more of drug related products?
And has this war curbed the availability of drugs on the market?
As they say in legalese, "Cui bono?"

Why is the Mexican cartel so powerful? Who in the US is financing this operation?

Then there is Colombia.

"Lady Day", Billie Holiday had underworld connections that kept her habit going.

The "war on drugs" is a charade, a "don't look under the curtain" game played by law enforcement, many of whom are "on the take". (Anybody remember Iran/Contra?)

Amy Winehouse was a casualty of a failed drug policy. Addiction is almost impenetrable because the underlying causes have to do with politics, religion and economics.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 24 Jul 11 - 12:04 PM

Her father said last year that he feared she would join the 27 club. Sadly his fears came true.


http://thechaosofdeath.blogspot.com/2008/02/27-club.html

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: alanabit
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 04:34 AM

A beautiful and moving elegy from Russell Brand.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,livelylass
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 05:24 AM

Yes, I saw that yesterday. Russel had some very thoughtful things to say, which are also pertinent to some of the comments that have been made on here. Here's the final paragraph:

"Now Amy Winehouse is dead, like many others whose unnecessary deaths have been retrospectively romanticised, at 27 years old. Whether this tragedy was preventable or not is now irrelevant. It is not preventable today. We have lost a beautiful and talented woman to this disease. Not all addicts have Amy's incredible talent. Or Kurt's or Jimi's or Janis's, some people just get the affliction. All we can do is adapt the way we view this condition, not as a crime or a romantic affectation but as a disease that will kill. We need to review the way society treats addicts, not as criminals but as sick people in need of care. We need to look at the way our government funds rehabilitation. It is cheaper to rehabilitate an addict than to send them to prison, so criminalisation doesn't even make economic sense. Not all of us know someone with the incredible talent that Amy had but we all know drunks and junkies and they all need help and the help is out there. All they have to do is pick up the phone and make the call. Or not. Either way, there will be a phone call."

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Barb'ry
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 05:58 AM

I'm sad that she has died - whatever the cause - she was hugely talented and so young. Life is precious.

I'm also sad, and frankly disgusted, that people here can even squabble and argue over someone's death.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: billybob
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 06:11 AM

Thanks alanabit, that is very moving .
A truely wonderful performer. So very sad,
RIP

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Lox
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 06:18 AM

Well Josepp,


You are wrong again.

I have extensive personal experience of the effects of addiction.

That was my motivation for reading up about addiction.

Which is how I know about how it relates to dopamine.

Dopamine production levels are something which are predetermined in the womb and consequently some babies are born with a propensity to addiction.


Before you make any more of an idiot of yourself I suggest you read up on the subject too.

You may have to go deeper than a google search.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Lox
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 06:26 AM

PS

Maybe its not technically folk, but this iis folky enough for me, and certainly stands as a challenge to the naysayers.

Amy jamming to noone in a park on a sunny day

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 07:29 AM

I remember what Gore vidal siad when Truman Capote died.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 08:11 AM

Thank you for the link to the wonderful, moving and compassionate words from Russell Brand. Thanks also for the YouTube link which I really enjoyed watching/listening to.

We have been left with some beautiful and amazing music. She was a truly talented singer/songwriter.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 08:11 AM

+ 1 on what Sinsull, Eanjay, Lox and Alanabit said.

And I have considerable experience of addiction and its effects, not only on the addict but also, and equally importantly, on their family and friends (if they have any friends left).

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: goatfell
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 12:53 PM

it is sad thaty she died so young a waste of life

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 25 Jul 11 - 04:31 PM

No cause of death has been given, while an inquest was opened and adjourned until 26 October. Results of further toxicology tests could take four weeks.

The 27-year-old singer's body was found on Saturday at her home in Camden, north London.

On Monday, her father Mitch Winehouse thanked fans for their tributes, saying: "I can't tell you what this means to us. It really is making this a lot easier."

Visiting his daughter's home, he added the loss left him "speechless".

The singer's mother and brother also visited the site to see the flowers, cards and photos fans laid in tribute.

A family spokesman had earlier said the funeral would be held as soon as possible, with coroners issuing interim death certificates allowing arrangements to be made.

Traditionally, Jewish funerals take place as quickly as possible following a death.


So bloody sad.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 03:22 AM

The funeral is today.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,Callingbird
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 03:59 AM

I feel so sorry for her and her family.

Josepp....

Your comments take me back to the early days of aids when there were people like you spitting out hatred and fear.

Your 'holier than thou' attitude reflects your true soul.

No decent, human compassion within in.

People like you terrify me.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,999
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 04:04 AM

I met two of the people from the so-called Club 27 list. I liked them both. I am sorry they died. I am sorry that Amy died. I feel deeply for her family.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 04:14 AM

There is a list of world-changing musicians (well, some were) above, who died early. I know many thought well of Winehouse's talent, but I don't think she was in that league. I'd put her more in the George Michael or Boy George class, talentwise. I don't immediately see why she should have been more "driven by demons than they were". I do think her associations with some pretty unpleasant people were a matter of her own choice.   

I suppose I'm more sympathetic than some but less than some others.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 05:08 AM

Addicts are usually so because of choices they make. That they made those choices is no reason to demonise them the way some on here have tried. We all make choices, some of them are good and some bad. Fortunately for most of us, not all bad choices result in addiction.

It's worth remembering, too, that oftentimes - perhaps most of the time - these choices are made by very young, impressionable and vulnerable people. These are the people that are most easily preyed upon and influenced by the purveyors of addictive substances, be it tobacco, alcohol, pot, heroin, whatever.

In the same way that addiction is the result of a decision, the defeat of addiction also requires a decision on the part of the addict. Only the addict can make that decision, no-one can make it for him. It may be that AW had yet to make that decision - toxicology reports may eventually provide the answer.

People like Josepp should remember that every dirty smackhead or alcoholic is someone's son or daughter and that, no matter what bad decisions they make which result in their addictions, or what good decisions they fail to make to break their addictions, no matter what monsters their addictions may have turned them into, they are very often still loved by those who created and bore them into the world and who carry memories of their once-beautiful children always close to their hearts.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 05:09 AM

I don't know Richard. its hard to get a handle on modern pop music when you're as old as we are.

I've heard people raving about her for the last few years - though I don't get it myself. It might click with me at sometime. It took me two years to remember the tune of Telstar, by The Sputniks.

Very sad for her family.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 05:27 AM

Al, I think Richard's right...much more of a "mainstream poppy" talent than "world-changing", IMO.

I know that the young musicians and music-mad kids I know never rated her that highly...the ones "raving" about her locally were much more likely to be older people who are into the "Simon Cowell experience", or *very* young kids (pre-teens). Certainly the current youngsters "equivalent" to those of us in my generation who were listening to Jimi Hendrix, Janis Joplin or The Doors didn't listen to her much.

Still desperately sad, and all sympathy to her friends and family.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Lox
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 05:45 AM

Richard,

You're right - Amy Winehouse wasn't especially ground breaking musically, but then neither was anyone else in the 27 club, with the possible exception of Hendrix, but from an educated standpoint this is arguable.

The complexity and difficulty of the song I posted earlier, and the one posted below, serve as evidence of the chasm seperating Winehouse and the likes of Boy George and George Michael.

Unlike George and Michael, it is instantly apparent in her singing that she has an advanced understanding of the very difficult harmony of Jazz and has an excellent, creative ear and an accurate voice.

I Have studied Jazz performance to a very high level, and trained and performed with the highest level of Jazz instrumentalists and vocalists and I am fully qualified to inform you categorically, that for her to negotiate those changes and make them appear so easy, whilst simultaneously making the song sound bluesy and soulful, is a skill possessed by only the very best singers.

It is important to add that she embellishes and improvises on the tune, and while this may not be that hard on diatonic folk and pop tunes, you can't do it on jazz tunes without a high level of knowledge and musicality.

Here she is singing the Jazz Standard "there is no greater love"

No Greater Love

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Richard from Liverpool
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 05:46 AM

Well, the extent to which someone is liked by the trendy kids is always something subjective and variable. But just to counterbalance any anecdotal evidence in the other direction, I'm a young musician myself and I know I'm not the only one who listened to her work, because I've spoken to several other young musicians in the past couple of days who are also upset by this because they rated Amy Winehouse very highly. Personally, I thought that as well as being a powerful singer, she was an amazing lyricist, one of the best of my generation. I don't go in for league tables, but I really do feel she deserves to be treated as a true stand-out talent, not just mainstream poppy.

The worst I've heard someone say about her (sticking just to opinions of her records and performance) was that her music was a bit of a pastiche, but I think nobody could deny that the lyrics were written and delivered with such intensity that it took that music to another level.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Lox
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 05:52 AM

PS - in terms of musical ability and talent, Neither Joplin, Morrison or Cobain had anything like the depth of knowledge and understanding that winehouse has demonstrated - Hendrix was the only one who could boast the same type of musical depth.

I love the music of all the 27 club, but an objective non partisan comparison will woark out favourably for Winehouse every time.

I suspect that a bit of rose tinted nostalgic loyalty to our own generation may require us to resist this knowledge, but it remains trues.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 06:00 AM

Learning is not necessarily the measure of the merit of a musician.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Rumncoke
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 06:09 AM

I'd not heard of her - but having looked at a couple of the facebook videos I'm not surprised.

I find her voice unpleasant and her lyrics don't make sense to me, what I can hear of them, but that is hardly surprising as that is not my 'scene'.

I don't know any alcoholics or drug addicts - I supose they don't make it to my age.

Were I a benign dictator I would probably decree that if two doctors agreed that a person was addicted that they should be treated as children, not allowed to manage their own finances and requiring supervision by responsible people. I would allow them a reasonable amount of whatever they were addicted to, as long as that harmed no one, or as much help as they required to avoid it. Their choice.

As long as addicts are regarded as adults and able to make their own decisions then some will die. It is inevitable.

It must be the deepest sorrow to their families and friends that they cannot save the one they love from the results of their addiction, but in most cases I can't see that there is anything that can be done, legally, to prevent an addict seeking out what they desire more than life itself.

Anne Croucher

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 06:12 AM

Oh, for gods sake, Richard, what argument or criteria will satisfy your o-so-fastidious perceptions, then?

~M~

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Lox
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 06:12 AM

Well Richard - as you clearly haven't been watching the clips that have been posted, here's another standard beautifully and skillfully reinterpreted by her.


Someone to Watch over Me


And Richard, I posted to explain the difference between Winehouse and Boy George and George Michael

The fact that you are unable to distinguish between these levels of excellence for yourself undermines the authority of your critique significantly.

Your last post indicates nothing more that bloody miinded resistance which supports my suggestion that your view is informed more by loyalty to your generation rather than by fair and objective observation.

I defy you to identify how Cobain, Morisson or Joplin changed the world, let alone the world of music, any more than Amy Winehouse.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 06:18 AM

I tend to agree with Rob there. I never really dug Amy myself, I found her singing - however skilled - to be somewhat uninteresting and derivative. However, that's purely a personal response. I'm not knocking her, and of course now we'll never know how innovative she could have become if allowed to bloom into full maturity - Jazz after all, of all genres, is the medium for grown-up female artists. It's genuinely sad that she will not able to be rocking the world of Jazz fans well into her Sixties, as she should.

Livelylass

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 06:21 AM

The two top comments for the video Lox just linked to give a good summation of the situation.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 06:25 AM

Surely ALL music makes someone's world better and is therefore world changing. The number of people who's world is changed varies but the principle is still the same.

To me it was Hendrix to many others it was Cobain, Morrison and Joplin. One thing I do know - The ones who had their world changed by all these are no different to the ones who had their worlds changed by Amy Winehouse. They are all suffering from the same loss now.

DtG

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,Bluesman
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 07:14 AM

Richard, you should withdraw both of your offensive comments.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Lox
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 07:26 AM

Peter - I disagree on one count with those comments.

They suggest that Winehouses singing is untrained and unprofessional compared to Linda Ronstadt, and that her singing somehow comes from a primal source.

There are numerous musicians in history who have had this said about them - people like Miles Davis, John Coltrane - and about how they express some deep instinctive roar that comes out of the ether, unaffected by learning.

This celebration of the musical "noble savage" is all very endearing at first, until you consider that all the musicians who are described in this way usually turn out to have worked day in day out to perfect their art from a very young age.

In the case of Jazz Musicians like Charlie Parker, Chet Baker, Miles Davis and John Coltrane, the fact is that they were all very highly informed.

They might not have studied at university, but they grew up playing as apprentices under the tutelage of experienced musical mentors - which is basically the same thing as what happens at universities.

I know it isn't anyones intention to denigrate musicians of this ilk to describe them as forces of nature, but rather they are indulging a romantic fantasy and investing the artist with a magical alter ego.

However, I feel it is more respectful to acknowledge the expertise and hard work of artists who truly were consummate professionals - so good that they didn't sound like 'professionals', but instead were able to strike a resonant chord with any listener.

Nina Simone is a perfect example of this - people hear her and imagine the simple southern american black girl with her soul steeped in blues - and this isn't necessarily wrong - but what they often fail to acknowledge is that Nina is a qualified Doctor of Music.

Amy Winehouses Dad was and is still a Jazz singer, and Amy grew up listening to and singing along with Billy Holiday, Sarah Vaughan, Ella Fitzgerald, Diana Kraal etc ... and you can hear them all in her voice.

Her timing and paraphrasing are first class and both original and informed.

Amy went to stage school to perfect her art and developed it through hard work and exhaustive practise.

So to ensure that she gets the full credit she deserves, she should be recognized not just as a silly girl with a gift, but as a total professional whose career was the result of hours of hard graft in the practise room.

On a slightly tangential note, of the musicians I have referred to above, at least 5 out of 8 also suffered from addiction.

Jazz is a hard genre to perform and many musicians take something to calm their minds when they play lest they make utter fools of themselves in the process.

My vice when i play is nothing more extreme than half a beta blocker as it controls adrenaline reabsorption.

Alcohol is the most common drug, but Heroin sadly has decimated the ranks of our greatest creative minds, because they couldn't face getting on stage without it.

Sad but true.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 07:38 AM

Cobain and Morrison and Hendrix each gave expression to a large part of a generation, in Cobain's case to the extent that "Teen Spirit" dominated the form of that type of music for a good number of years.

Joplin's ferocity and power struck me as of greater musical impact.

Brian Jones? Not in the league (although better than the Stones guitarists after him). A look at his track credits shows nothing very remarkable.

Having listened to the Winehouse clip, it bored me. That sort of cafe jazz does. I would go along with "derivative". Having read some of the comments, that anyone could find Winehouse "better" than Etta James simply astounds me. Not that I think Winehouse was bad (although I did find her derivative or as is said above, tending to pastiche). I just don't see her as a musical genius to the standards of (say) Stevie Wonder, Sly Stone, Prince, Michael Jackson, Diana Ross, Howlin Wolf, Grace Slick, BB King, Alvin Lee, Bob Marley or Martin Carthy - or even a singer to the quality of June Tabor, Mahalia Jackson or Mavis Staples in her heyday.

She was a perfectly adequate musician who failed to excite me, and it's a shame she was so screwed up, and probably a bigger shame what she put her parents through one way an another.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 07:44 AM

>>>I love the music of all the 27 club, but an objective non partisan comparison will work out favourably for Winehouse every time.

Yeah, rehashing the Motown sound, adding self pitying, self indulgent lyrics, 50 years later is pure musical Nirvana!

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Lox
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 08:07 AM

Richard,

I am able to deduce quite clearly that you didn't listen to the whole track but only a part of the first half.

Reading your other comments on this subject can only be compared to what it would look like to you if I started waxing lyrical about why Lord Denning was or wasn't my favourite judge.

It is getting clearer with each post that your fingers are in your ears, you are shouting LA LA at the top of your lungs and you are arguing to support your prejudice.

What you are talking about is the measure of your favourite artists iconic status, not their musical significance - and if "speaking for your generation" is the benchmark, then Wham, The Byrds, and Sandy Shaw stand as more representative, having been voted for, with hard cash, by more young folk of their day than hendrix Joplin or Morrisson ever were.

So that is clearly a flawed benchmark.

Hendrix was different as he genuinely had a new approach to music. Apart from the fact that he was informed about music to a pretty high level, (hence purple haze and foxy lady etc), he also wanted music to be experienced in a new way. He didn't want it to be listened to, he wanted it to be felt by the body - hence the high volume and the masses of distortion and other effects.

Electric Ladyland was also a goundbreaking album insofar as its creation involved the development of new studio techniques.

Jim Morrison was a Pin up with a good voice - the elvis of the psychedelic era - but if he hadn't been sexy and charismatic we wouldn't be aware of his existence.

Janis sang with Passion and I enjoy her music, but I can find nothing in it that hadn't been done already big mama thornton or billie holiday, much less that "changed the world".

I don't expect you to like Winehouse, but persisting in comparing her to George Miichael and Boy George, or arguing that she was less of a musician than Jim Morrisson is wilful ignorance.

I think I detect a little baby boomer arrogance creeping in here ...

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Lox
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 08:09 AM

Jack,

And scanning over the discussion, ignoring the points made and neglecting to click on the provided examples before making a meaningless contribution has a similarly profound impact on me every time.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Lox
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 08:12 AM

Oh by the way Richard,

Cobain wasn't even that significant within his own genre.

He was a fluke whose career depended on the groundwork done by Sonic Youth and Mudhoney amongst others.

You are straying further into territory where you are clearly an infrequent visitor.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Jeri
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 08:42 AM

I wish you guys would have the sense to start a "review" thread if that's what you wanted to "discuss".

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: saulgoldie
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 08:50 AM

Maybe this is not for me to say. Perhaps I should let this thread just run its natural course. But it seems to me that we are mourning the premature and untimely passing of one of our precious musical family.

I never "knew" her. But from what I have been able to discern, she was very talented and very troubled. And she left behind not only saddened fans, but very saddened family members as well. And in my own way, I miss her, just as I miss Bill Morrissey.

IMHO.

Saul

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,livelylass
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 08:50 AM

I find it a tad unfair to be judging Richard's comments about Amy's musical strengths/weaknesses according to his age. I'm a bit younger than most on this forum, and if I were to compere Amy to what I would consider to be (very approximately) a more relevant peer group of fellow contemporary female artists, musically she doesn't excite me like Bjork, move me like Grace Sandoval, or impact on me like P.J. Harvey. Talented and skilled Amy was, but just because she doesn't rock everyone's boat in the same way, doesn't mean they are necessarily deaf old gits :)

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,livelylass
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 08:54 AM

Tsk! Make that "Hope" not "Grace"

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Lox
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 12:51 PM

I've got no problemwith artists not rocking anyones boat, just comments that compare them inaccurately with significantly less accomplished artists.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Bernard
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 02:34 PM

Paloma Faith said everything that needed saying without being too sugary on her Facebook page:

Goodnight Amy

When she opened her mouth to sing it was like the heavens opened, the voice of a bygone era, and in it was contained all the sadness and heartache of all the world, and that was what sounded so beautiful. She was so tragically beautiful.

Such a great loss for her family, her friends and her listeners.

I think it is important that people don't romanticise what happened to her, it is a warning to all of us. The truth is, Amy would have been better off alive, not forever young like so many of the other greats. She paved the way for me and others like me and her legacy will live on, timeless and infinite all at the same time.

I am so moved and so grateful for what she contributed to our generation of music and only sad she won't be around to do more.   

Rest in peace.

Goodnight Amy.x

(Paloma Faith)

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: selby
Date: 26 Jul 11 - 04:44 PM

Amy a fine singer songwriter in her own field and sadly those in particularly in her sphere could not protect her from whatever. I only hope we in the folk world can look after our young people much better. the loss of any young life is a sad affair and to sit in judgment not knowing all the facts is to my mind appalling . Personally not a religious person but let him who is not without sin cast the first stone seems relevant at this point
Keith

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 27 Jul 11 - 05:48 AM

Amen Keith.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: GUEST,Patsy
Date: 28 Jul 11 - 05:24 AM

It is so easy to take a swipe at someone when they are gone. It is so sad that such a young talent should die, I heard that it was a mixture of drugs and alcohol that finally killed her but I think it was disgusting that promoters had pushed her to perform before she was anywhere near ready.

Yes the Norway massacre was evil and tragic but I don't think even Amy could have predicted that was going to happen. Unfortunately performers that die in this way are a stark warning to others.

RIP

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: katlaughing
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 01:41 PM

Apparently there were no drugs in her system:

LONDON – Amy Winehouse had no illegal drugs in her system when she died, and it is still unclear what killed the singer, her family said Tuesday.

    A toxicology report shows that some alcohol, but no illegal drugs were found in Amy Winehouse's body. The singer died July 23.

    By Matt Dunham, AP

A toxicology report shows that some alcohol, but no illegal drugs were found in Amy Winehouse's body. The singer died July 23.

The family said in a statement that toxicology tests showed "alcohol was present," but it hasn't yet been determined if it contributed to her death.

The 27-year-old soul diva, who had battled drug and alcohol addiction for years, was found dead in her London home on July 23, and an initial post-mortem failed to determine the cause of death.

Subject: RE: Obit: Amy Winehouse (1983-2011)
From: buddhuu
Date: 23 Aug 11 - 07:43 PM

Shame about all the premature jumping to conclusions.