Pavee (Irish Traveller)

Subject: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,Phien O'Phien
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 04:05 PM

Pavee ( Irish traveller) writing lyric's from a Travellers perspective seeks fiddle, guitar, accordion, bass, tin whistle etc...for gigs, album...

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 25 Aug 11 - 05:19 PM

I would be interested in reading the lyrics if possible and the tunes if some could be put on you-tube.

When were people started to be called Travellers? My great grandfather and his 3 brothers were listed as "4 Travlers" on some document..although we have no reason to believe they were Travellers as they were from Dingle. mg

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,mayomick
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 04:00 AM

Where are you based Phien ? If you around Dublin you can email at :
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 09:33 AM

I'm certainly intrigued. You can check out my guitar playing if you go on Youtube and punch in 'Ildanach'.   I'm the guitarist who isn't singing. I'm in Liverpool, by the way.

Best of luck in any case.

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,Phien O'Phien
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 03:53 PM

"When were people started to be called Travellers? My great grandfather and his 3 brothers were listed as "4 Travlers" on some document..although we have no reason to believe they were Travellers as they were from Dingle. mg"

We have been called irish Travellers since the turn of the last century as far as i know... Shakespeare mentions the "roving Irish" in one of his plays...But the name we know ourselves by is "Pavee' That used to be a secret word as is much of our language...but it is used often now...Many Pavee left Ireland and settled all over the world...Murphy's village in the USA is made of all Pavee's who left during the famine..some self claimed experts on our culture state there can be no more than 120.000 of us in the world although that is probably higher than what there actually is...more like 70/80, 000...we are a minority within minorities...

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,Phien O'Phien
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 04:02 PM

mayomick

Im In The UK just outside london...im hoping to sing at the Dale Farm camp tomorrow...this is the largest Traveller camp in the Uk which the council and government are looking to evict the Travellers off their own land...something they were a few years ago slating Mugabe for doing the exact same thing...

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,Phien O'Phien
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 04:14 PM

ChrisB

I watched some of the gig on youtube...very good...There is many Pavee up the north, mostly in manchester, there is one in the big brother house as well lol...how that ever happened is a mystery, id of thought a Pavee on a NASA space ship to mars was more likely! who's says Travellers are not moving into the main stream...lol....Most of the Pavee singers either sing pop..Shayne Ward or Traditional Irish songs/music...The Furyes...not many are like me writing from the Traveller side of things...There is a market its just the case of putting it together..

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 06:40 PM

Are there women musicians in the States? Around Murphy's village? I know the Music Box Project was trying to make contact last year as they recorded women from all different cultures in U.S. mg

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 06:43 PM

Do you know where they came from before the famine? Did they leave in clusters or just meet each other once here? Are there census or baptismal records of them here? I know they did travel but had a home base..well..I don't know that for sure. I am speculating. mg

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 06:43 PM

Also, I have a few songs I have written about the famine so you can PM me if you would like. mg

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 07:07 PM

There is many Pavee who believe that we are the indigenous people of Ireland...Our history is not known outside of our people and even then only to a small amount within..Murphy's village came about by those Travellers who left with a priest called Father Murphy and when he died they built a settlement there...There are of course women singers and any Travelling event or meeting usually ends up with a sing song...of old and new songs...at a Traveller event in Galway in 2005 i sang song i wrote called "town of my birth" and last year my cousin in new jersey sang it to me over the phone and asked if id ever heard it before...it took 5 years to cross the water...I also wrote a song about the famine but from a Travellers eye view..called the 'country girl' which is what we call female who are not Travellers..i sang it in Canterbury but to date havent got around to doing anything more with it or many others...

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 26 Aug 11 - 07:52 PM

Would you be willing to put a few up on you tube or send us MP3s? I could send you mine...mg

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 27 Aug 11 - 04:50 AM

Hi Phien. Thanks for your kind words about the Youtube clips. I'm originally from the London area myself though my parents were from Mayo. I've been up north about 13 years, first in Manchester and lately in Liverpool. There's a nice little session in Liverpool on Mondays at the Edinburgh in Wavertree, on Sandown Lane, if you're ever in town. I was last there a couple of weeks ago - there was a piper called Simon Doyle there with this three young daughters. Don't know if you'd know them but they're great musicians. John Rooney, the piper, was there as well. I'd heard about John but not had the chance to play with him before. Very flamboyant player, and quite fast when he wants to be. I also work with a singer from Cavan in a duo (Fiona McConnell, who's also in the band with me). If you want to PM me at [e-mail] I'll send you a few tracks if you like. Good luck at Dale Farm today. Hope the weather's better than it is up here this morning!

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,The Doyle Family
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 06:48 PM

hello there my name is simon doyle the uilleann piper that chris so kindly mentioned from the liverpool session ''edingborough inn'me and my three girls who play tennor banjo, button accordion, and fiddle might be interested in your project we have just recently played at sidmouth folk festival 2011 and also whitby festival 2011 we are irish travellers and have received a great welcome from everyone at both festivals we are on u tube just type in the DOYLE FAMILY or email me at [e-mail] all the best?

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 06:53 PM

As for indigenous people, have you heard of the "wild men of Dunquin?" Someone in 1830ish Ireland called them aboriginal people...they could very well be my ancestors as that is where they were from.

Some say the dark-haired Irish were among the originals...what do you think? mg

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 28 Aug 11 - 07:09 PM

@ Simon Doyle - it was great to hear you and your family at Whitby, and I will certainly make an effort to come and see you at the Edinburgh in Wavertree soon. Your CD is a real treat to listen to. It was lovely to hear you talk about yourself and your background in the interview you had with Doc Rowe. Well done!

Matthew

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,simon doyle
Date: 29 Aug 11 - 03:43 PM

hi Mathew great to hear from you glad you like our performences at whitby and the interview with Doc Rowe and i am very happy you like our CD, many thanks see you soon.

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 03:52 AM

The word Pavee is claimed by some to be related to 'paviour' - the road, a word dating back to at least the 18th century.
Irish Travellers have a song partly in their own language, Gamman, which starts:

Stash all the Pavees cushing down the tober,
Gannin on theirway and they won't boggat over
(Look at all the Travellers coming down the road,
Going on their way and they won't move over)

Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: Willa
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 04:03 AM

Simon Doyle
I'd like to say how much I enjoyed your family's performance in Whitby.I hope you'll be back next year.

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,Simon Doyle
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 04:19 PM

hi willa thanks for the comment it really means a lot.

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 30 Aug 11 - 07:59 PM

Could you tell us more of the history? As in pre-and post famine..

Are there French Irish Pavee? Some of my Irish ancestry is originally French..Devery..and I believe Lyons might be originally too.

Are there other nationalities who somehow came to Ireland? Or did Pavee travel to other countries to live or work? Are they related to Basques by any chance? I am interested in some Irish names turning up in places like Poland and Russia in the 1800s..I wonder if some got to those places during the famine. mg

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,The Doyle Family
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 08:11 AM

hi matthew thanks for coming over to the session in liverpool last monday sorry the rest of the family wasn't there hope you enjoyed yourself all the best.

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Sep 11 - 08:17 AM

Irish Travellers in context - an exceellent assessment from an article in The Times in connection with the Dale Farm Evictions.
Jim Carroll

1,000 years of prejudice, hatred and distrust


There are few tales that begin in the Indian sub-continent and Irish marshlands during the first millennium after the birth of Christ and reach Basildon in Essex 1,000 years later.
In between there are travels through eastern Europe, Irish famines and Nazi killing camps. Then there are the prejudices, the disputes and the clashing of communities. The history of the 300,000-strong travelling communities, now encamped on 8,000-plus pitches in England, is complex.
First, there are the groupings: the Roma, who are believed to have emerged from Asia 1,000 years ago and to have split into the Romany of western Europe, the Domari of the Middle East and Eastern Europe and the Lomavren of Central Europe.
The Irish Travellers refer to themselves as Pavees and share a common language, Shelta. A study earlier this year provided DNA evidence that it is a distinct ethnic minority, which separated from the settled Irish community between 1,000 and 2,000 years ago. Previously, it was believed that they were landowners who took to the road during the Great Famine. In 2000, they were ruled to be a distinct ethnic group, while Gypsies gained this status in 1976.
Then there are the New Age travellers whose crusty roots lie in the hippy culture of the mid-20th century. One can also throw in a sprinkling of Scottish Travellers, with their own musical and linguistic traditions dating back to the 12th century, and the Travelling Showpeople who have entertained generations with their fairgrounds and circuses.
Gypsies were one of the ethnic groups targeted by the Nazis. At least 250,000 were killed in the Holocaust.

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Oct 11 - 09:00 PM

howya all a song about dale farm....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MIIptoRzQaw

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,Jacko
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 11:03 AM

cool song even the slight lisp adds to the flavour...any gigs in the pipe line?

-------------- Please use a consistent GUESTName--------------

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: Morris-ey
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 12:12 PM

Dale Farm is about abuse of planning law and nothing to do with travellers except that is who have flouted it, this time.

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: Morris-ey
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 12:13 PM

..nothing to do with...

why can't we edit?

Fixed. Check the "preview" box below the form and you'll have an opportunity to correct any errors. --mudelf

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST,mg
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 03:00 PM

Great song..

Have you heard of Hope Sings..it is in the Huffington Post under something about women and United Nations. They want to get women from around the world to sing along on this song..frankly I don't think te song itself is great..OK for performance but not something that sticks in your head..but the concept is.

Anyway, perhaps some of the families here of Pavee culture or other culture could check this out..they are totally now just thinking about how to do it technically so maybe people have insights to share. mg

Subject: RE: Pavee (Irish Traveller)
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Oct 11 - 06:38 PM

spoke to phien, seems the song was a new song done in one take and was put out asap to get it in place...as for flouting planning law...it might be useful to know that 90% of all travelling planning applications are rejected compared to 20% non Traveller...seems the law of fairness is being fluted in the uk constantly when it comes to Travellers the one law for us and one for them is quite true but to the detriment of the Traveller as the % clearly shows..