'The Banks Of The Nile'

Subject: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: GUEST,Azoic
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 05:01 AM

I was listening to the timeless rendition of "The Banks Of The Nile" tonight on the way home from work,wondering who,if anyone,could perform this to greater affect than Sandy Denny?This is not a rhetorical query.Would it be wrong for anyone else to sing it after Sandy?

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 05:30 AM

Never mind about "after Sandy" ~~ the Young Tradition sang it a whole lot better before Sandy.

In re your main enquiry: there is, thank goodness, no such thing as a 'definitive performance' in folk. Of course anybody can sing it, or any other song they fancy, at any time ~ whatever you or the shade of Sandy might think. How on earth can you consider that that could possibly be 'wrong!

~Michael~

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 05:32 AM

BTW ~~ you meant 'effect', not 'affect'

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: GUEST,Azoic
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 05:40 AM

Thanx-No,I meant "affect" as I was affected by this piece.However, I like to play with language occasionally.

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: MGM·Lion
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 07:41 AM

Don't want to get the thread drifted on to a semantic impasse: but an oddity of the language is that one is 'affected' by an 'effect'. 'Affect' as a noun has an entirely different meaning connected with psychological theory.

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: treewind
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 08:23 AM

affect vs. effect (xkcd.com)

There's a theory developing that XKCD has a cartoon for every occasion...

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 08:35 AM

Ewan MacColl and Pegy Segger did it to excellent effect on "Classic Scots Ballads" (ca1959).

What's more, MacColl and Seeger introduced the song into the revival canon.

Young whippersnappers may find the MacColl-Seeger rendition too rudimentary for their electrified tastes, however.

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 08:45 AM

You sing a song - and really you don't know what will happen. sometimes you waste weeks doing songs that you like, but you will always sound rubbish singing. Its all a bit hit and miss. Of course as you get older, you get more insight into what you can do and what you can't.

And really its no use bitching that someone doesn't do the kind of music you think is valid. If they've got any sense of music or artistic endeavour at all - people should sing what they can. Nothing worse than someone who doesn't understand the nature of their own talent. For we all have talent, but the gift of thoroughly understanding the nature of one's talents to exploit your ability fully is pretty rare.

So i'd say - if you want to sing The Banks of the Nile - go for it. Be prepared to work hard, and listen hard to the performances that have moved you -extract what you can - but bear in mind that what you bring to the table is not what the late Peter Bellamy or Sandy Denny brought - hopefully you will have a new bag of tricks to entertain and delight with - your own.

But be prepared to back off if you can't get it to 'snap' for you.

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: treewind
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 08:58 AM

if you want to sing The Banks of the Nile - go for it.

Absolutely. Sandy Denny doesn't own it, and every folk song that's ever been recorded has been sung again by others who didn't do it so well, and sometimes better too... Never fall into the trap of thinking that the version recorded by someone famous is somehow definitive or correct - especially with traditional material, everyone brings something different to it.

I'm not even sure why the original post was made, or if it was meant to be taken literally.

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: Roberto
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 09:36 AM

Three recordings from the tradition:
a)- the unknown singer on a cylinder recording archived at Cecil Sharp House, in A Century of Song, A Celebration of Traditional Singers since 1898, EFDSS CD02;
b) - Sidney Richards, Somerset, in A Soldier's Life for Me (The Folk Songs of Britain Volume 8, 1970;
c) - Tom Phaidin Tom, in De Danann, The Mist Covered Mountain, 1980.
***
Seven more recordings by musicians of the Folk Revival:
d) - Ewan MacColl, in Ewan MacColl & Peggy Seeger, Classic Scots Ballads, 1959;
e) - The Young Tradition, in Galleries, 1968;
f) - A. L. Lloyd in The Valiant Sailor: Songs and Ballads of Nelson's Navy, 1973 (with Alistair Anderson, concertina, and Bobby Campbell, fiddle);
g) - Roy Harris, in The Rambling Soldier: Life in the Lower Ranks 1750-1900 Through Soldier Songs, 1979;
h) - Martin Carthy, in Right of Passage, 1988;
i) - Nancy Kerr & James Fagan, in Song Links (England/Australia; disc one: English songs), 1998;
j) - Fay Hield, in Looking Glass, 2010.

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 09:42 AM

Agree with everything MGM says.Sandy Denny had a gorgeous voice - no denying that - but was she a great traditional singer? I'm not so sure.Its a very pretty version that she does - very "nice".But its not necessarily a pretty song - "we'll fight the blacks and heathens/On the Banks of the Nile" in Vaughan Williams' version.

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: Maryrrf
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 12:07 PM

I like many versions of this ballad, including Sandy Denny, and Ewan/ Peggy. No one has yet mentioned Niamh Parson's version - here's a link to the Compass Records site where you can at least listen to a snippet:http://compassrecords.com/album.php?id=533 .

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 05:47 PM

Both MacColl and Denny may be heard on youtube. I'll take MacColl.

Denny shouldn't attempt songs of this type.
The singer with "Shorttailed snails" does a better job, but it is a man's song.

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: GUEST,Lighter
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 06:10 PM

Now that I've listened carefully to both, I'm definitely with Q.

There's no accounting for taste.

Better than both, however (if that term applies at all), is Tom Paidin Tom's "roots version" on the De Danaan album. He sounds like he was there.

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: Edthefolkie
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 06:24 PM

Oh dear, Guest seems to damn Sandy's version of the song with faint praise. Should she maybe not have attempted to perform the song because she didn't fit into some arbitrary box invented by the Folk Police? Do me a favour.

Pretty version? Very nice? Sandy would no doubt have had Guest for breakfast if he/she had said that to her face.

As far as I'm concerned, Fotheringay's version is absolutely excellent, as is the Young Tradition's. They are just different and valid ways of approaching the song.

And of course it's not wrong if anybody else sings or records the song - why on earth should it be? Step up June Tabor for one. Or let's see what Lucy Ward makes of it.

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: RTim
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 06:52 PM

Wake up guys - they are ALL good!!

How can you be critical of Sandy's version - that is just being snobbish!!

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 07:27 PM

Fran Mcphail (Voice Squad) sang it in Gerry O'halloran's kitchen one night when he (Fran) had drink taken such that he was having difficulty speaking.

All present had the hairs on the back of the neck feeling and when he finished there was a stunned silence before the raptious acclaim.

Nobody was recording so that one is only for the lucky gathering.

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: GUEST,Azoic
Date: 09 Sep 11 - 09:41 PM

I wonder if June Tabor would refuse to sing this out of respect for the legacy of Sandy Denny.I believe that she'd do a fine job though.

Subject: RE: 'The Banks Of The Nile'
From: Ian Burdon
Date: 10 Sep 11 - 10:11 AM

Adding to the list, I like Maggie Holland's version too.