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Origins: Folk tunes in methodist hymn books?

GUEST,littlelamb 12 Sep 11 - 10:21 AM
GUEST,leeneia 12 Sep 11 - 10:35 AM
Newport Boy 12 Sep 11 - 11:46 AM
JeffB 12 Sep 11 - 02:47 PM
GUEST 13 Sep 11 - 06:15 AM
GUEST 13 Sep 11 - 07:53 AM
Keith A of Hertford 13 Sep 11 - 08:10 AM
sian, west wales 13 Sep 11 - 10:54 AM
CupOfTea 13 Sep 11 - 05:56 PM
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Subject: Origins: Folk tunes in methodist hymn books?
From: GUEST,littlelamb
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 10:21 AM

Hi

I'm new on here but I'm starting a dissertation on folk songs local to my area. I'm from near Ingleton, N. Yorks so looking at songs from North Craven and South Westmorland preferably. It's quite a Methodist-y area and I've been struggling to find original tunes. I've found references to folk songs being 'wiped out' in areas such as Cornwall and Wales where there is a big Methodist influence and I think the same could be true for this area.

Does anyone know where I might find some actual evidence of this or could suggest where I may find some really old Methodist hymnals to steal some tunes from?

Thanks, littlelamb


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Subject: RE: Origins: Folk tunes in methodist hymn books?
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 10:35 AM

How about contacting the headquarters of the church in your area to see if they have archived the various editions over the years?


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Subject: RE: Origins: Folk tunes in methodist hymn books?
From: Newport Boy
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 11:46 AM

If you can get to London before Christmas,
Wesley's Chapel has an exhibition which seems to be exactly what you're looking for.

Phil


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Subject: RE: Origins: Folk tunes in methodist hymn books?
From: JeffB
Date: 12 Sep 11 - 02:47 PM

I believe that Slane (which is more or less The Banks of the Bann) is a Methodist as well as Anglican hymn.

Not sure if this is quite what you're looking for, but I have some choral Christmas pieces in West Gallery/ Victorian style which are still sung in Cornwall. PM me if you're inteested.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Folk tunes in methodist hymn books?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 06:15 AM

I can't help out, but I can relate a tale I recall from Methodist Sunday school, back in my days of flaming youth....
    Charles, brother of Methodism's founder John Wesley, wrote the songs for the original Methodist Hymnal. When stuck for melodies, he'd travel down to the docks, where drunken sailors would predictably stagger by, caterwauling some exotic chantey or another. Charles would transcribe the notes, and develop them into hymns.
    This didn't sit very well with brother John, who confronted his brother about using barroom music in praise of the glory of God. Charles responded to his objections with "Why should we let the Devil have all the good music?"


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Subject: RE: Origins: Folk tunes in methodist hymn books?
From: GUEST
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 07:53 AM

I hear the declaration, 'Methodists wiped out folk songs' too often. Yes, the Methodists did a lot of harm to the folk tradition; instruments were particularly susceptable. However, in Wales, many folk tunes were used as hymn tunes - and vice versa. "Ieuan Gwyllt" was one composer and hymn book editor who did a lot along these lines. Rhidian Griffiths, formerly of the National Library of Wales, has written a lot on this topic but everything I have of his is a) in Welsh and b) packed, as I am in the process of moving back to Canada. Unfortunately, all the reference material I could use to elaborate on the Welsh situation falls under the 'b)' category so you'll just have to take my word for it, for at least 12 weeks!

Still, if you look in your hymn books, you'll probably see tunes tagged as "Welsh traditional" or "Old Welsh" or similar. Those will be from folk tunes, airs or ballad/carols - the 3 categories we use.

sian


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Subject: RE: Origins: Folk tunes in methodist hymn books?
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 08:10 AM

Some tunes may survive as hymn tunes but it is true that singing of other than hymns was considered sinful and discouraged.
As a result folk songs were lost and choir singing sustituted.
Wales and Cornwall both well known for their male voice choirs.
Folk dance suffered the same fate.
The Presbyterian influence in N.Ireland has been similar.


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Subject: RE: Origins: Folk tunes in methodist hymn books?
From: sian, west wales
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 10:54 AM

Sorry. Didn't realize I wasn't logged in at 7:53. I've never logged out so ... something to do with recent Mudcat gremlins?

sian


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Subject: RE: Origins: Folk tunes in methodist hymn books?
From: CupOfTea
Date: 13 Sep 11 - 05:56 PM

I don't know how you'd filter for Methodist hymns specificly, but the Cyber Hymnal (TM) website lists hymn tune names. In the Episcopal (US) Hymnal, the tune names are credited with things like "American Southern Harmony" "Welsh folk tune" "English Playford dance" and the like along with known composers and lyric authors. Getting hands on actual ink and paper hymnals and searching the tune name indexes in the back might give you some of what you're searching for.

Cheers

Joanne in Cleveland


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