Etiquette question

Subject: Etiquette question
From: Christie from Wisconsin
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 11:52 AM

This may seem like a dumb question. I went to my first folk session last night. Everybody was playing along. I tried to join in on a few songs but was having a lot of trouble, and getting a few glares from some of the other musicians. There was finally a song that I felt like I was able to play, so I played along, quite happy with my progress. About halfway through the song, a man left the circle. After the song was over, he came back, snatched my guitar from me, and proceeded to cut each of the strings with a pair of pliers. Then he threw my guitar on the floor outside of the circle and sat back down. Nobody said anything, so I just left my guitar on the floor, and went home. Needless to say, I am quite hurt and humiliated by the whole event. If this is how things are normally done, I don't know why everyone enjoys playing together so much. Maybe in a couple of months I'll buy a new guitar, then never play it outside my home again. Is this standard behavior for these gatherings?

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:01 PM

I have never heard of more outrageous behavior! This is absolutely not the way jam sessions work!

This hateful man probably rules the rest of the group, who wouldn;t speak against his hateful actions. Of course you should get a guitar and play, and of course you should find a session where you are welcome, and where you can play and sing with people who respect themselves and each other. Shake the dust of this event from your sandles, and move on. Life is too short, and music too important to let this abusive event hold you back from the joys that music, and good sessions, have to offer you!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: annamill
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:07 PM

What an a**hole!! I don't like violence, but sometimes there is a place for it. I hope you are going to make him pay for the strings, and GO GET YOUR GUITAR!!! Give him a kick in the shins for me. Blast!

And don't give up playing. Just join a nicer group. Geez!

Love, annap

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: moonchild
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:11 PM

Christie ... that is the worst story I've every heard, bar none! I feel so badly that it happened at a folk music session and can assure you that this behavior is not the norm. Certainly, you should retrieve your guitar, apply new strings, and go forward. If you're not used to playing with a group or just learning guitar, tell the session people just that. We all needed to garner experience at one time and this is how you get it. Don't hold it against the rest of us because I cannot imagine any of my mudcat peers doing something so outrageous. Maybe it was what is called an "elite" session which seems to cater to those who only think of themselves as the best musicians around and many of us, included seasoned musicians, would not be in that type of session. As I said, go forward ... moonchild

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Marion
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:15 PM

Somebody please tell me that this is a joke.

Marion

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Christie from Wisconsin
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:19 PM

Right on Marion. It's a joke.

Sorry everyone. Sometimes the demented freak in me comes to the surface.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:22 PM

annap's comments express my original thoughts ... I would certainly have put the bastard's lights out if I was there!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: radriano
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:35 PM

Dear Christie:

I have never heard of such a thing happenning! This is in no way typical behavior, especially in the folk music crowd which is usually pretty tolerant and forgiving. It is amazing to me that any crowd would condone this kind of thing.

If you want to join this crowd again you might want to get in touch with whoever leads or sets up the event. Talk to them and find out what the local rules are. There are usually etiquette guidelines for any gathering. Having said that I still can't condone his behavior. He destroyed your property!

radriano

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: annamill
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:42 PM

Christie, I'm sorry. Did you say this whole thing was a joke? Were you being sarcastic? Welll...the laughs on us, isn't it.

annap

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Christie from Wisconsin
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:45 PM

Yep. It's a joke. Didn't mean to embarrass anyone. Just felt like telling a good lie.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: annamill
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 12:49 PM

Well, Christie, it was a good lie. Here lies one dead thread.

annap

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Tony Burns
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:01 PM

Great trolling Christie!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Christie from Wisconsin
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:01 PM

You killed my thread!

You bastards!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Tony Burns
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:02 PM

... and a South Park fan too.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: DougR
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:03 PM

Christi:

I think it was a rather poor joke in very bad taste. You got a lot of nice people's heart's racing. If that was your intent, then you accomplished what you set out to do. You must feed on a very weird sense of humor.

DougR

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:18 PM

I think it could be refered to more appropriately as flaming, phoaks. And, you are right, DougR!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:34 PM

I'm glad I stayed quite on this one! It almost produced some very unpleasant suggestions (like using the pliers for a different purpose) from me.

Jon

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: JedMarum
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 01:45 PM

chuckle ... warped humor ... I did rise to the occasion!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: bbelle
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 02:30 PM

And I certainly feel like a fool. It will probably be a cold day before I rise up to any other threads such as this one. Christie, whoever you are, I hope never to meet you and you should be ashamed of yourself.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Easy Rider
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 03:22 PM

That was TERRIBLE!

You shouldn't play such tricks on your friends. I was really getting upset, till I found out it was a joke.

NOT NICE! BAD GIRL!

EZR

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 03:23 PM

Now, does anybody know who Christie really is?

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: emily rain
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 03:28 PM

oh, come on, you guys.

i had an art teacher once who faked a heart attack in the middle of a lecture... just for the hell of it. he ended by lying motionless on the floor, and when the TA rushed over to help him he leaped to his feet and went on with his lecture. i was livid, having been scared spitless for him, and ever after have envisioned all the things i should have done: told him off, stormed out, dropped the class, complained to the principal, etc. instead i did nothing, and in time he received a more appropriate reprimand: two years later, a well loved history teacher died of an authentic heart attack one morning just before class began. school was cancelled and everyone went home crying... imagine the shame of that insensitive fool as it suddenly dawned on him that sudden death was no laughing matter.

if you're truly offended by this thread, i'd advise you to brush it off, move on, and trust in karma.

but personally, i thought christie's little joke was pretty funny. for me the difference between each instance of wolf-crying is this: people who use folk music as an outlet for their egomania _are_ a laughing matter. i mean, honestly! what a ridiculous concept! true, they cause real hurt to nice people just like any other bully, but the best way to deflate a bully has always been to laugh in his face. the sooner we learn to take them (and ourselves!) a little less seriously, the sooner we can get back to singing some good songs.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Chet W.
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 03:40 PM

Be careful what you joke about, sayeth the sage, lest it come true.

Chet

Subject: RE: Impractical Jokes
From: Allan C.
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 04:12 PM

I am flashing back on when I started working construction as a "gopher" (that's go-for to the uninitiated - as in someone who fetches). I was just returning to where a crew was digging footings when one of them yelled at me, "Quick, run to the supply trailer and get a sledge hammer! We've got a man with his hand caught!"

Soon I was running back up the muddy hillside as fast as I could with a ten pound hammer in my hand. I was almost halfway up the hill when the idea came to me that a ten pound sledge hammer would probably be of little use in getting anyone out of a ditch. Then I saw the smirks on the faces of a couple of the guys. I knew I'd been had.

Not quite as silly as being asked to fetch a bucket of steam or a styrofoam cup full of gasoline.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 04:38 PM

Thinking of hammers, an adjustable rubber mallet seemed to be something that was apprentices used to be asked to get. The favourite that I have heard of people falling for was to go and ask the storeman for a long stand - I believe some have stood waiting for hours!

Jon

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Melodeon
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 04:44 PM

Hey Allan, you've brought back memories there. Hundreds of years ago when I was an apprentice engineer(that's english for an engineering worker - not a locomotive driver) we were sent to the stores by the skilled men for long weights, left handed mandrils, blind drills and all sorts of other non existent bits of engineering tools. I suppose it's all part of the lore of learning a trade, we played the same jokes on our apprentices and I'm sure the will do the same - even in this high tech, no time for anything world that we now live in. Thanks for the memory.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: MMario
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 04:52 PM

A scout camp I used to attend had a staff that for years "hazed" new and younger campers by sending them off for various items...."smoke benders" etc. My troop, not finding this particularly humerous, assembled a chest we would bring with us each year, which included most of the items -- or at least items we could claim were the desired ones. We had left and right handed screwdrivers, ditto for wrenches, we had smoke benders, sky hooks, weasel oil, barber pole paint, right and left handed saws etc. Really bugged the staff when they would send a tenderfoot back to our site and we would probide them with the requested item. Ironicaly, this started when our scoutmaster, who had not grown up in the area, tried to organize a classic "snipe hunt" and had 4 different teams come back with snipe!!! (He didn't know that there is actually a shore/marsh bird known as a snipe, or that they were found in our area)

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: MAG (inactive)
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 06:02 PM

this brings up a very very bad memory for me.

My brother in law, of whom I confess I was not very fond, used to be an incorrigible practical joker. did the fake heart attack thing, and this with fatal sudden aneurysms running in his family.

He was home alone with my then-13 year old neice when he kicked it for real. She thought it was the usual joke and left him lying. When she looked outside 2 hours later and he was still lying, she went over the edge.

Don't ever, ever ever, do this kind of trick on people you love.

MOST sincerely, MA

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: radriano
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 06:54 PM

To Christie from Wisconsin:

Enjoy having fun at other people's expense?

I'll have to remember to ignore any threads from you in the future.

WITHOUT regards,
radriano

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: bbc
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 08:03 PM

Christie,

If you were a member, I would have sent this as a personal message. As it is, I hope this thread dies soon, so people will not think of you this way, should you choose to post again. I feel that this thread was attention-seeking & in poor taste. The folks who make up this forum are loving & responsive & many, I'm sure, snarled or wept when they read this thread. Put bluntly, it's just not nice to jerk people around. You will have to earn credibility after this stunt. If you're interested in making meaningful, sincere comments, please do stay. We'd like your input.

bbc (born in Wisconsin & insulted)

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Sep 99 - 08:06 PM

May I point out the waywardness of a cookie.....Especially since these are "Christie's" first posts.........just a flamer I guess.............good html knowledge though....and why does "demented freak" sound so familiar????......Speaks well too, 'course a lot of people do at times.......generally on the music threads though..........."bastards"....hmmmm..................

Spaw

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: O'Boyle
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 02:04 AM

Let's find her and cut the strings out of her guitar with a pair of pliers.

Rick

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 02:35 AM

Actually, Rick, I think that's what many of the people above just did: Christie just played a riff and a bunch of you were so offended by the outsider's clumsy picking that you just jumped her, took her guitar, cut the strings, and sent her home to nurse her broken spirits. One of you in particular, I feel, seems to have taken on a guardian of the gate role and is playing it with a heavy hand...for the best of reasons, I'm sure, but anyone telling people to piss off, you ain't our kind, makes me awfully uncomfortable.

--seed

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 03:17 AM

I don't particularly want to spend my time wondering whether a thread is genuine or a wind-up. So - I'll try to continue to take things in good faith, and never mind if I get taken for a fool. This whole thing is either a malicious wind-up or a genuine bit of off-beat humour. Life's too short to figure it out or to worry about it. I think that's part of the trouble with text-based conversation - its hard to judge the intent. I reckon if you give the benefit of the doubt then you can be wrong without actually wronging anyone. If the original intention was malicious, well then you have taken the wind out of their sails. That's my considered opinion - after initially getting really miffed & feeling that I would be suspicious of every posting from now onward. Kris

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 07:31 AM

Does this mean I've got to leave my pliers at home in future?

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: KingBrilliant
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 10:12 AM

Steve - of course not - tolerance in all things. I defend your right to carry pliers. To the death if necessary.

:)

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: annamill
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 10:40 AM

I'm sorry if I overreacted, but I don't feel that I did. I have a strong mother instinct, and when one of us gets hurt, I become very defensive of that one. My fight or flight reflex was way up on this one and I don't need the stress, nor do I want to waste that much karma and energy on somebodys kicks.

Was that too rough? I'm sorry. NOT. Damn! There I go, wasting karma and energy again.

Love, Damn it!! annap

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 10:40 AM

Damn! Damn! and Damn again!! Duckboots told me about this after I got home from a rehearsal, and instead of racing to the computer, I went to bed like a fool. Oh how I wish I'd gotten here earlier (like second in line). I would have wanted Christie to tell me HOW he cut her strings with a pair of pliers. Short of defusing bombs, that would have been one of the most dangerous things a human being could do. Ya got 3000 lbs. of pressure on those strings, and even clipping one (assuming you could get the cutting part of the pliers onto one string at a time) could result in very serious injury to the cutter. The recoil of each string would be like a bullet. To actually perform this heinous act would have meant loosening each string first, and since there was no mention of a "string winder" the whole process would have taken at least 4 or 5 minutes, thus dramatically reducing the shock value.
Had you (guess you've gone away, or back to another identity) said "he'd bashed your guitar over your head", I might have bought it and suggested you start working on your "F" chords...after a couple of Tylenols.
Duckboots thinks your Catspaw. (much beloved in this house) If you're an actual other person with a wicked evil twin, I'd welcome you with open arms. I've gotten suckered at times, but holy cow, I'd be worried if I couldn't laugh at myself after stepping into a pile of doo doo. Folks who fake heart attacks must live in some strange parallel universe.

Rick

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 11:11 AM

Rick, I hadn't thought of the danger aspect. I carry a set of wire cutters in my banjo case and frequently cut the strings to speed up the proces of changing them. I do reduce the string tension to a safe level first though - as you said, cutting a properly tensioned sting most certainly could cause serious injury.

Jon

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 11:12 AM

annap, you didn't overreact and have nothing to apologise for! Your heart is in the right place. There comes a time when it isn't wise to turn the other cheek.

Rick, in this case, I don't think this is a wicked evil twin, I think it is the original parading under a pseudonym.

kat

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 11:22 AM

When I was in high school, my art teacher plotted a "happening" - what is now probably called "performance art." He had scripted out his own shooting by a disgruntled student, played by my best friend. I knew about it in advance. If I'd had a little more warning, I might have been able to get another blank bullet, and reversed the un-funny joke a bit.

Wait until teacher begins to get up and explain the "joke"... "I knew about this stunt - it was a blank cartrige. Now let's see what happens when I put a real bullet in..."

Seriously, nobody thought this was funny - it wasn't meant to be. It was meant to provoke an emotional response and get people thinking. It got me thinking how much I hated people being manipulative. (At that time, there had been no incidents of school shooting that I'd heard of, and kids didn't bring weapons to school. The teacher would probably have been fired in a New York minute these days.)

And to you folks who are trying to laugh at yourselves for being had, don't. You responded appropriately, and there was no reason to suspect anyone would pull such a dumb-ass stunt.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: JedMarum
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 11:39 AM

... and here I was wishing I could have been there at Christie's most embarassing moment to cause grevious bodily harm to that ignorant (though it turns out imaginary) bastard! And it was sooo unnecessary! As Rick Fielding points out, the fellow would undoubtably caused himself harm by releasing those powerful strings so suddenly. Whatever was I thinking!!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: JedMarum
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 11:39 AM

... and here I was wishing I could have been there at Christie's most embarassing moment to cause grevious bodily harm to that ignorant (though it turns out imaginary) bastard! And it was sooo unnecessary! As Rick Fielding points out, the fellow would undoubtably caused himself harm by releasing those powerful strings so suddenly. Whatever was I thinking!!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Christie from Ohio
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:05 PM

This may seem like a dumb question. I bought my first guitar yesterday, from a small used shop downtown. I'd never really played before, but the guy at the store tuned it up for me. I asked him why there was only five strings and he acted as though I was the biggest idiot he'd ever met. I managed to get this guitar for quite a good price, but I've been having problems trying to play it. I'm not really convinced that he tuned it properly. Then a friend told me that guitars are only supposed to have four strings, so I don't even know what kind of an instrument I purchased. Needless to say, I am quite hurt and humiliated by the whole event. Any advice?

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Mudjack
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:07 PM

I think Christie from Wisconsin was really Bob Dylan Zimmerman ceeping into the Cafe.......,
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Rita from Wisconsin
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:15 PM

Perhaps Christie, my fellow Wisconsiner (Wisconsinite? Winsconsonian?), had been reading the multiple etiquette threads and decided lighten things up a bit, on the topic. It would appear that she was a little too convincing in her attempt at humor, then was unable to back out gracefully enough.

Christie from Ohio, on the other hand, has a serious problem and needs our help.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: JedMarum
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:23 PM

well Rita - I think Christie has been convincing but her humor has been appreciated, at this point!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Marion
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:28 PM

Now I have a serious problem and need your help too!

If cutting a tense guitar string is that dangerous - don't the strings sometimes break on their own in the middle of a hard-strumming song? Do people get hurt that way?

And is it the same for fiddle strings? If they snapped during play and swung wild, you could lose an eye, couldn't you?

Is there a word for phobia of your instruments?

This is a serious question - I don't want to feel like I'm strumming/bowing a time bomb.

Marion

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: JedMarum
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:33 PM

strings do break during performance sometimes, and players do sometimes get hurt ...

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: catspaw49
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:43 PM

It ain't me folks......like I said before, I think its a stone cold joke.........and now we add the Ohio bit...Very entertaining.........but it ain't me babe (or Boots)

Spaw--Still having doubts about Hiroshi Ogura

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: annamill
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:57 PM

I can't believe how long this thread has lasted. (here I am prolonging it too) Christie from wherever must be LHAO. annap

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Christie from Alaska
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 12:58 PM

Ha ha ha ha .... Ooops! Where's my ass?

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 01:00 PM

Christie, depends on whether it's a dulci-guitar or a banjo-guitar. In order to discover which kind it is, you have to remove the back carefully with a hammer and chisel. You'll then be able to read the lable stuck on the inside front of the guitar. Of course, some guitars have nine strings, but it's easy to add them on with a hammer and nail.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 01:03 PM

I have, in more than thirty years of performing onstage, had many, many strings break. Other than an elevated heart rate from the sound, I don't recall ever having experienced any adverse physical effects. My daughter was once clipped by a mandolin string which broke during one of her solo breaks, but she was able to finish the set, and had beyond a slight welt where the string had popped her. Many years ago, I was present onstage when a well-known bluegrass banjoist actually cut the strings off the banjo of another musician as he was playing. It was done in fun, and there were no injuries.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 02:52 PM

Christie from HaHa land, I love you and want to bear your children.

Actually a good point has been raised. A breaking string can cause a lot of damage to one's eye. (been there, done it) Don't ever cut 'em off without loosening them.

If you ARE Catspaw, I'd insist on five years at obediance school first.

Rick

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: annamill
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 03:09 PM

Gee Rick, sounds more like Gargoyle to me than Catspaw.

L.,A.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Marion
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 03:17 PM

THE Bob Dylan??!! Here at Mudcat??!!

Now you're toying with me, Mudjack...

Long live Dylan,

Marion

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 03:17 PM

my point exactly, annap

this definitely is NOT 'Spaw

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Allan C.
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 03:21 PM

Nah! Garg is a lot less artful than that.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 03:36 PM

I haven't noticed "g" ever talks with people. He comes in, passes verbal gas, and leaves before the stench gets to him.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: lamarca
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 03:44 PM

Gee, Rick, you sure seem to want lots of kids...now, as a professional molecular biologist, I can see there are a few problems we'll have to clear up before you can start bearing all those kids...Can someone hand me the wire cutters?

(Note:JOKE!

JOKE!

JOKE!

Just want to make sure no-one misunderstands...)

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: lamarca
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 03:47 PM

Especially Rick - I love you, but let's just skip the children, OK?

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 04:08 PM

I once had an A string on my violin break in the middle of a Christmas concert; sure good practise for 3rd & 5th positions. Didn't hurt me except for a sting on my arm; I could easily believe one's eye could get hurt, though. There is a lot of tension.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: annamill
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 04:10 PM

lamarca, are you the evil-doer? Shame.

annap

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Marion
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 05:11 PM

Katlaughing, do you mean to say that you kept playing, but the notes you had rehearsed on the A string you spontaneously switched to the D string?

{bow} {bow} I'm not worthy...

Marion

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: lamarca
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 05:26 PM

Nope - I'm not computer savvy enough to toss my cookies like that...

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 06:21 PM

LOL, Marion, the D and the E, as some of the notes were originally played on the A in 3rd position. Remember, those were in the days, in school, when I practised religiously, both at home and school, on a daily basis. Even had orchestra class every day! I still have the knowledge, but the skill is very, very rusty. No bows needed, I am sure you sound a lot better than I would now. I did have a fantastic first teacher, old "Granny" Grantham. She was strict, tough, unrelenting, and I was lucky enough to study with her privately and make it to concert mistres of our little grade school orchestra! Actualy all of my private and orchestra teachers were great.

kat

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 06:26 PM

Forgot to include this: it is easy for anyone to post anonymously or under a pseudonym. For info on how to keep your cookies from being read, or how to "toss" them, as lamarca said (I LIKE that imagery:-), just click here kat

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Christie from Omaha
Date: 29 Sep 99 - 07:11 PM

It's even easier if you do it from work.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 12:50 AM

I see that most of you have come to your senses and recognized Christie's joke for what it is. Thank you. Some of you even share my view that it's kinda funny. What I don't understand is those of you who seem to think it's the work of Gargoyle--have you ever seen Gargoyle apologize, recognize the humor in what someone else said, make a joke on that, and apologize again, all in the kindest tones? I like Christie of Wisconsin and hope she continues to post--she has a kind of kinky sense of humor--I like that in a person, otherwise how could I tolerate Catspaw? Or myself or Leej or Kat or Art or Rick or Banjer or any of the other kinky komiks who live here?

--seed

By the way, there's no danger in cutting guitar strings, at least to the cutter--unless he is cutting them while checking how straight the neck is. People sitting next to the cutter might be in danger, however. Of course you might scratch your guitar while trying to slide the pliers under the strings, so loosening them might not be a bad idea.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 01:03 AM

How I love a mystery. Well now I know it's not Catspaw, cause he works in his basement making those macrame and possum innard dulcimers and I doubt he's got a computer down there. For what it's worth Catspaw definitely IS "T in Oklahoma", however on the "millenium" thread. It's got his paw prints all over it.

Ya know Seed, we may all be full of hot air about Christie. She/he might very well just be a brand new Mudcatter checking out our ability to laugh at ourselves. God knows Max did on April 1st. My God, maybe it is Max!

Rick

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: emily rain
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 01:56 AM

ditto seed.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 02:18 AM

Emily, I noticed that you were one of the few rational voices during that stretch last night. Also, I checked out your picture in the Mudcat album--woops, I'm in love again (sorry Barbara and Harpgirl [wherever you are]).

--seed

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 03:35 AM

IMPORTANT WARNING - PLEASE READ THIS!

Friends, we've all overlooked something important here: steel strings are very hard and will damage the cutting edge of your pliers. When you go to cut strings, you naturally use the cutter part of the jaws, close to the pivot pin of the pliers. DON'T! I know: I have a good pair of pliers with big holes between the cutters' edges from trimming the ends off new strings. What you must do is get a pair of pliers with wire shears on the edge - looks like a big groove about two or three mm (1/8") wide. If your'e not sure, ask at your hardware store.

Of course, the real danger in cutting other people's strings is the other people ...

Steve

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Cara
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 09:39 AM

I don't think it's Gargoyle either, but I do think someone was intentionally flaming, for whatever reason. It's not funny to take advantage of people's good nature, especially not disguised as a stranger in need.

Gargoyle doesn't spell as well as Christie though, nor write sentences as coherently.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Bert
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 10:07 AM

Gargoyle 'has' been known to apologise occasionally.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 10:09 AM

He also does quite well with spelling and coherence when he wants to, esp. when adding something about music.

I can't believe I just wrote that!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 10:10 AM

I think it was a "troll," not a "flame." (picky, picky, picky) I also think it was Christie, not anyone posting under a pseudo-pseudonym.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: sophocleese
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 10:15 AM

For the newly inter-netted what is trolling and how does it differ from flaming? How many other technical terms are there to describe variations of rude behaviour?

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 10:56 AM

I can't seem to find an on-line dictionary right now with the definitions of these words, and I have to go to work.

Trolling is a post designed to provoke a response, usually emotional. Like "What is Folk" or "Dylan Stinks."

Flaming is an angry (or angry-sounding) post. "What are you, an idiot? Folk is Dylan and he doesn't stink, yo mama does." People can have fun with flaming or take it seriously. There are whole newsgroups devoted to the "art."

Jeri

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 11:00 AM

To work, Jeri, and you're feeling sick as a dog? Hope you get to feeling better.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Larry B.
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 11:01 AM

I have a nine-year-old son who thinks it is hilarious to take me in by knocking on the door when I am in another part of the house, then laughing when I go to see who it is, and other jokes of the "made you look" variety. The response I have settled on for this type of "humor" is to smile slightly to acknowledge that it is a joke, segue to a mildly disgusted look to show how little I appreciated it, and then press on.

LB

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: annamill
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 12:55 PM

Jeri, Congrats, Kid. Good luck and I hope it goes well.

Kat, I've read almost all Gargoyles postings and he is very knowledgable and he writes well. In fact, some of his posts have given me the impression he may work in an institution where info on Folk is available to him. Too bad he is so angry and vindictive. BTW, why are we so sure Gargoyle is a 'he'? I'm going to have to go back and read his/her posts again with a different purpose and outlook.

As for Christie, seed, I've cooled down a lot. but I still don't think what she did was funny. Sorry. I've never read anything you, Leej or Kat or Art or Rick or Banjer wrote that made me/us feel like fools. Nuts, maybe, but never fools.

Love, annap

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: --seed
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 02:46 PM

Anna, did you intentionally leave Catspaw off that list? (he has been known to flame for the sake of humor, all right). --seed

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: emily rain
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 02:51 PM

*sternly* seed, you made me blush. shame!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: annamill
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 03:58 PM

Hahahah..No I didn't leave him out on purpose. I took the list out of your posting and I missed him, but he never made fools of us either. **BG**

Emily, how did he make you blush? I love your name. Guess I've said that before, huh?

Love, annap

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 06:10 PM

Jeez Anna thanks for the vote of confidence. I was gettin' a bit worried about the company I was keepin' in seed's list. Granted I've got a twisted sense of humour but it's usually directed at myself! By the way Anna, I can assure you Mr. Gargoyle is a mister. Beats me why he just insults and runs. He's certainly intelligent enough to defend his points of view in an actual discussion, and his knowledge of trad music is extensive. His attitude towards women and folks of Jewish faith are also sadly well documented. His feelings can be hurt because he's brought up my comment on his chords for "Starry Night" several times. (which I've apologised for in another thread) I was reacting with anger to the unrelenting attacks on Katlaughing and his calling another Mudcatter an "idiot". I should have addressed my comment to "those" issues rather than the song. He seems to have allies here who are less troubled by those issues I mentioned than I am however.

Rick

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Sep 99 - 11:38 PM

Rick, I don't think people are allies so much as eternal optimists. Some hold out hope that he'll one day get over succumbing to his urges to carry out vendettas and start treating people like people. I hope that it could happen, but from what I've seen, I don't think he's capable.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 12:25 AM

Jeri, that's a pretty fair assessment, as far as I can tell. And, it doesn't do any good to ignore him, either. As you know, Rick, I am in full agreement with you, esp., with what you mentioned a while back, about bullies; quite often they will act in such a manner as you mention above, i.e. "insult and run". Seems pretty chickensh*t to me. I think he likes sucking in all the goodhearted people whom you call allies, then striking like some stupid hit and run scorpion, shocking everyone and causing the attention-getting furor that must feed what seems to be a very insecure ego. IMHO!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 01:32 AM

Rick, you are no less troubled than I. And, I might add, disappointed and saddened. I have read this man's insights, as well as his prods when he is trying to jog us into thinking over our positions on issues. And I used to find that there was a great deal to be learned. But as I have said before.........his personal vitriol directed at people he doesn't care for, as well as the anti-semitic bullshit, have caused me to have to cut him loose. I would love to have him back in the position of resident curmudgeon, but these two issues make that impossible.

Mick

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 02:04 AM

Well, I guess I'm the only one whose initial response to Christie's first post was " Wow! She must REALLY suck on guitar!" I only started to become sympathetic after seeing how outraged everyone else was. I'm not proud of that, but there it is.

Now I have made a couple of attempts to draw the old Gargoyle out into the light because I figured "hey, he likes the Grateful Dead..he couldn't be all bad," but he never responds. Still, he'll come out with these rather sad posts that bespeak a person who feels very alone and sad:"Catspaw..I'll take one of those drinks...if you are still buying" from Tavern 12. I think that he considers himself a member of this community in the only way he understands...as a lurker at the periphery, both fascinated and repelled by the rest of us.

Seed and Kat, and others who have been his targets, please understand that I consider you dear friends, and any attempt at reaching out has been because I felt it might help this forum to do so.

LEJ

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Big Mick
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 02:24 AM

Same here on that last bit, Leej.

Mick

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: catspaw49
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 02:37 AM

Leej I completely understand your feelings. And back in May, he too sent a card to me.....humorous in that nicely warped way. Like Mick I found his posts curmudgeonly humorous and often well spoken and insightful. But gradually the humor became blacker and the needling began to lack any vestige of humor. Then along came "armalite" and any connection to whatever I felt before was lost. I wonder about his life based on some other things that happened during that time. The Tavern posting was sad to me also...and that was a bad day for me too....but I got over it. At this point, its going to take more than a reaching out for me or Mick or Rick. Some type of open apology with an explanation of some sort...I dunno.......but something a LOT more than what I've seen so far.

Spaw

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 08:40 AM

LeeJ and Mick, I never doubted you for a minute.Thanks, kat

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: alison
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 09:32 AM

Here's a tip...... don't stand too close on stage to someone playing hard on a guitar.. there I was playing keyboards and singing when one of the strings on Alan of Oz's guitar snapped and skelped me across the bum..... causing a yelp into the microphone and a leap across the stage... the rest of the band continued to play through their giggles.

the talk above about "long waits" reminds me of my student nursing days... and the number of times we sent new porters/orderlies to the stores to get us a fallopian tube......

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: harpgirl
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 11:08 AM

...this distasteful discussion of another 'cat member is in extremely poor etiquette fellas and gals...Knock it off!!!

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Bill in Alabama
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 11:39 AM

Thanks, harpgirl: I agree whole-heartedly.

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 12:53 PM

Bill and harpgirl: he is welcome to join in at any time. A lot of what he has posted is what I would consider extremely distasteful and vindictive. I personally am glad it is out in the open and people are discussing their honest feelings. If what I have said offends you, I am sorry, but I do not intend to sit back & take the crap he's been dishing out to me or others anymore. If I am found wrong by the majority, I will leave.

kat

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 01:07 PM

I can understand Harpgirl's feelings--

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 01:16 PM

That was a bit quick on the trigger--we used to have an intermediate dialogue box where we could stop our errors before they actually went out, but that one got away from me.

What I was about to say was I can understand Harpgirl's feelings--this thread has kind of evolved into a public discussion of a confidential therapeutic file, and I take responsibility for my part in turning it in this direction. Harpie, there's still room in my heart for you, along with Barbara, Kat, Alice, and Emily Rain, and any others to whom I have promised undying devotion.

--seed

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 01:17 PM

That was a bit quick on the trigger--we used to have an intermediate dialogue box where we could stop our errors before they actually went out, but that one got away from me.

What I was about to say was I can understand Harpgirl's feelings--this thread has kind of evolved into a public discussion of a confidential therapeutic file, and I take responsibility for my part in turning it in this direction. Harpie, there's still room in my heart for you, along with Barbara, Kat, Alice, and Emily Rain, and any others to whom I have promised undying devotion.

--seed

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: bseed(charleskratz)
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 01:18 PM

That was so good I had to say it twice. --seed

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: Marion
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 02:57 PM

Sophocleese, another couple of netiquette terms for you:

Shouting = typing in all capital letters

Spamming = the wide distribution of unsolicited/unwelcome material, especially advertising, chain letters, and hoaxes/urban legends like fake virus warnings or appeals to save dying children through email. It can also refer to the circulation of jokes, Darwin awards, Chicken-Soup-For-The-Soul type stories, top ten lists and so on where this is unwelcome. The noun is spam.

Marion

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: katlaughing
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 03:41 PM

...seed, what "confidential therapeutic file"??!! Never heard of nor seen one in relation to anybody on here and wouldn't want to!

You've a big heart.*BG*

kat

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: sophocleese
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 05:11 PM

Marion and Jeri thank you for the information. I'll file it away for future reference.

Sophocleese, whoain'tasknowledgableasthenamemightindicate

Subject: RE: Etiquette question
From: --seed
Date: 01 Oct 99 - 05:32 PM

Kat, it's just that the discussion was turning from speculation on whether he was C. of W. or not to analyses of his psychologcal condition, sometimes sympathetic to him, sometimes not, but nonetheless getting into territory I'd be embarrassed having people discussing in such a public forum. In a way, Gargoyle is being gargoyled--poetic justice, perhaps, but that kinda makes us all Gargoyles. --seed