What is Folk Music? This is...

Subject: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 06:22 PM

Absolutely...

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 06:33 PM

Oh dear!

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 06:56 PM

Too much for you, Richard?

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Wesley S
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:08 PM

Is that Estaban on guitar??

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Don Firth
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:20 PM

My guess is that this fellow is to Native American music what Harry Belafonte was to Caribbean music.

Like Belafonte, very listenable, puts on a good show and all, but I tend to doubt that this is the way they do it on the reservation.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Stringsinger
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:24 PM

This is really nice. When music becomes acculturated it has a creative vitality.
I think that folk music can be appreciated in different contexts. First, new elements
can be introduced to enhance it or it can remain without any adornment whatever.
Folk music really is a product of acculturation, musical blending of different forms.
There is no pure folk music as there is no pure race.

There comes a point in a musical performance when the creativity that is added to
basic folk music in the form of a tasteful arrangement (a subjective opinion of course)
enhances the performance.

There is something to be said for the simplicity (not simplistic) of folk music unadorned by an arrangement added to it as well.

When you listen to enough folk music you can distinguish between the basic form of it from the added arrangements.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: RTim
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:29 PM

I think I see Kenny Aronoff on Drums!!
He has played with Richard Thompson and the guy with the broken guitar - Pot Head??
Yes - Willie Nelson!!
So it must be Folk Music.....
My niece went out with Kenny's twin brother and I once cooked Christmas dinner for his parents!!

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Jeri
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:32 PM

I found a radio station when I was driving through northern NY state and above it in Quebec. It was indigenous people's music station. Some traditional music, but quite a bit of modern music based on traditional styes. Mirabal is a bit slick, but it's the same general idea.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: kendall
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:37 PM

Depends on how broad minded you are.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:37 PM

That is NOT my idea of folk music any more than any thing on Television is - Its pretentious pseudo stuff !!

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lighter
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 07:58 PM

It's like Celtic Woman, except he's a guy and not Celtic.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,from Tokyo
Date: 13 Oct 11 - 10:52 PM

this thread is good.

kiyohide

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: ollaimh
Date: 14 Oct 11 - 09:30 PM

celtic woman is a pop version of traqditional stuff. there's nothing wrong with that. they do some fine gaelic singing on occasion.

this guy does the equivalent for taos natives. i wouldn't buy the album but i see nothing wrong. and those hats are quite common in the southwest ans mexico--it's kind of ethno centric to take a pot shot at others cultures hats.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 04:07 AM

Is it enthno-cenricto callanother culture's traditional music folk?

Just a thought...

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 04:09 AM

Let's have that again shall we?

Is it ethno-centric to call another culture's traditional music folk?

Just a thought...

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 04:44 AM

Great coat...!

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Tootler
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 05:09 AM

celtic woman is a pop version of traditional stuff.

It's also glitzy and more about presentation than about the songs themselves. A sanitised version of traditional stuff is more like it.

this guy does the equivalent for taos natives.

It's also glitzy and highly commercialised and - I suspect - also sanitised. I don't know enough about his culture to say for certain, but the style of presentation suggests it.

In both cases it's "folk" aimed at a mass market where presentation triumphs over content

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 05:13 AM

This is! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HhlZE7gXmG4 (skip to 1.25 for the song to kick in).

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Will Fly
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 05:22 AM

Danyel Waro is superb - straight from the heart.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Musket
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 05:24 AM

Get my mate Chris to sing it in the upstairs room of a pub with candles on the table with his finger planted in his ear.

Then... yep, it's folk.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 05:53 AM

If what the chap is doing is folk (which I suspect might be what it originated from and, if so, fine) then it it still is only part of folk and does not define it.

If it isn't folk, also fine, but there's no need to call it folk if it isn't.

My disgust was at the apparent return of the "Folk is what Lizzie likes" definition.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 06:17 AM

Lizzie is the worlds greatest authority on ' folk music ' so if she say's it's ' folk music ' then it jolly well is, just ask Show Of Hands about her.

Dave H

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Duke
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 07:59 AM

One of the problems of being old is that the subject of "What is Folk Music" comes up again and again and again and again etc.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 09:11 AM

If only something else would...

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: terrier
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 09:54 AM

"One of the problems of being old is" becoming old and still not knowing what folk/Folk is.
I've given up reading what "comes up again and again and again and again etc." and come to the conclusion I'm never going to find out.
When the word 'folk (music)' was first coined, it applied to a specific ideal, the word is now redundant and to keep applying it the the multi genre of modern adaptation of music is totaly inept.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Darowyn
Date: 15 Oct 11 - 12:43 PM

What is Folk Music? This is...
Oh no it isn't
Oh yes it is
Oh no it isn't
Oh yes it is
Oh no it isn't
Oh yes it is

Everyone is saying, in the words of the songs,
"Hooray for our side", ("same as it ever was.")
I liked it.
It looked good, the band was tight, the melody was memorable, and the singing was pleasant to hear.
I don't care what genre it was. It was a good song, well played. I liked it.
Thanks Lizzie.
Cheers
Dave

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 05:32 AM

Ah, but you see my folk music moves forward with The People...it is constantly changing, despite the roots still growing all the way through it...

English 'folk' music is wrapped in aspic, stuck in a museum and guarded by Folk Riot Police who feel themselves to be The 99%, when in actual fact, they are merely the 1%


Show of Hands, Dave?

yeah, sure, ask them about me, for once, in a land far away, **someone** used to write about them, get masses of others talking about them too...

Now.......?

But I'm still waiting for you guys to start up about them, as you're the New Followers of them. And meanwhile, whilst you lot are being silent, I'm still putting their music on the Occupy Wall Street/Canada/Britain/The White House Facebook pages......

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 05:54 AM

They're still acoustic emo rock tho, eh.

Labels eh? I keep them on my food tins, ignore them on my music.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Will Fly
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 05:56 AM

English 'folk' music is wrapped in aspic, stuck in a museum and guarded by Folk Riot Police

I don't know when you last went out, Lizzie, and had a listen to what's around the clubs these days. It's not the music that stuck in a museum - the old songs are as lovely as they ever were - and it's all down to the way in which they placed in front of the audience and to the skill of the performer.

I suppose I've heard "A Blacksmith Courted Me", in its various incarnations, by a number of people over the years. I didn't think another version of it could tempt me - and then I heard Chris Bartram do it recently on the "New Midsummer's Day" CD. No accompaniment, just Chris's beautiful, unaffected, direct delivery. Beautiful and timeless.

The said CD, by the way, contains some lovely Shropshire tunes dug out by Neil Brookes and performed by Neil, Chris and Tony Weatherall. The "old stuff" is still evolving, still producing lovely music for those that want to discover it.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,blogward
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:36 AM

Robert Mirabal, coming to a shopping centre near you.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 06:56 AM

"Robert Mirabal, coming to a shopping centre near you"

For all the Not-So-Smart-Smartasses in here......

Robert Mirabal - Coming to a Folk Festival Near You....

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:01 AM

More Folk Music...

David R. Maracle

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:08 AM

Lizzie, do you trawl the internet looking for new singers to give your approval of and tell us that it's your idea of ' folk music ' and new causes to tell us all to support [ see other threads ] ?

Dave H

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,blogward
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:14 AM

Mirabal is a great exponent - of what? Traditional native American music dolled up with modern gear to feel contemporary. Nostalgia. Top drawer nostalgia, but nostalgia all the same, no less than 'finger-in-the-ear folk'. Mirabal's music's only novelty is its comparative rarity.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:15 AM

Oh, I have no need to trawl, they just come my way, many times through others telling me about these beautiful musicians and songwriters...

I merely pass the message on.

You choose to walk the path, or not, depending on where your Spirit happens to be.

More folk music...accappellaaaa this time..

Joanne Shenandoah and her daughter, Leah with the extraordinarily beautiful, 'Prophecy Song'

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 07:46 AM

"Mirabal is a great exponent - of what?"

Did you bother to look at the link above? The one just below your last post?

He is bringing young American Indian people BACK to their culture and bringing it out to others..

You have a problem with this?

Sometimes he rocks it up, sometimes he doesn't.

I think you'll find The Duncan McFarlane Band do exactly the same thing, yes, even using traditional songs..and they ROCK! I still regard their gig in the main Ham Marquee at Sidmouth's first 'Folk Week' (of 2005, that is, not the ones back in 1876)..as being one of the BEST gigs I've ever seen.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Oct 11 - 11:03 AM

Some may even claim that this tripe is folk music:-) But it can't be because there is not a Nazi uniform in sight...

DtG

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,blogward
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 08:00 AM

Keep your hair shirt on, Lizzie. I just bothered to look at the link and again, I see it as a very accomplished rendition of traditional music in an accessible, modern style. My 'problem', as you seem to perceive my use of my critical faculties, is that traditional music done in a reverential, sanitised and pretentious way (and by that I mean pretending to be more significant than it is) completely fails to peel my banana. It's like those drum dances the Queen has to sit through. If they were real, they'd run her out of the country she was visiting.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,Whitby Oyster Eater
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 10:34 AM

I think you'll find The Duncan McFarlane Band do exactly the same thing, yes, even using traditional songs..and they ROCK! I still regard their gig in the main Ham Marquee at Sidmouth's first 'Folk Week' (of 2005, that is, not the ones back in 1876)..as being one of the BEST gigs I've ever seen.

Fantastic Lizzie, I do so agree. Fantastic band. One of the best gigs I have seen too.

Bringing young people into folk music - where ever they - are that is the important thing.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,Emberto Uco
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 11:14 AM

oh well, in that case then, this is definitely absolutely Folk Music...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZgOd3jgJtvc

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 01:54 PM

The original video is supposed to be a song sung to children, according the announcem,ent at the start.

Performed in elaborate ceremonial dress witha drumkit? I don't think so.

It would be nice if there were available versions of Native American music somewhere in between primary ethnographic recordings (which aren't all that available anyway) and these tacky Celtic-Women-in-feathers arrangements (usually with icky electronic keyboard work - this one is a bit more tasteful with the Michael Nyman style string figuration, but it's still basically a rock video with a few token fragments of Native American melodic material). I can see why there might be reasons that no such versions exist, but there should be more openings for intelligently arranged NA music now than before.

Here's a lullaby from a completely different culture (Sephardic Jewish, sung in Ladino) to give an idea of what I have in mind. It is an arranged setting - there's a melody instrument and a drone - but by and large the voice is left to carry the song on its own, and there's no intrusive crap from the Western music biz added to make it more "commercial".

Hadass Pal-Yarden

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: The Sandman
Date: 04 Nov 11 - 05:15 PM

One of the problems of being old is that the subject of "What is Folk Music" comes up again and again and again and again etc
and one falls asleep during the sentence.

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 03:45 PM

"Bringing young people into folk music - where ever they - are that is the important thing."

Why?

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 04:21 PM

Obviously you've not been to a Duncan McFarlane Band gig, the 'electric' version? If you had, Shimmy, you'd not even have to ask the question...

Suffice to say, they absolutely ROCK! And I've never seen a room so *alive* with people of all ages enjoying themselves..and yes, I was struck at how many young people there were in that room...GREAT to see the music reaching a new audience..

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: BTNG
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 04:29 PM

Because the old farts in folk (great name for a folk compilation)are allowing the music to become stale and unpalatable to alot of younger people.....that's why...there are exceptions to the rule, but, then again, there always are. the echoes of the shouts at Newport 1965 and at the release of Liege & Lief in 1969 are still there....

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 09:29 PM

Anybody know where to find a sound or video recording on the web of a version of that Taos Indian song as a mother sang it, or might have sung it?

(Liege and Lief has no echoes for me - all I know is it was an English folk rock album which I think has a white cover. I could never have named a single track on it, nor could I ever have named a single song Dylan was doing at that Newport gig. I'm just not an old enough fart to have the sort of nostalgia it takes to care about that genre).

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 09:40 PM

Who are these "Folk" you speak of?

...must be a mysterious race of mutant musicians!

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 04:16 AM

And this is Folk...Pura Fe, singing for her Grandfather..

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 04:25 AM

And here, on the Reservation...

Subject: RE: What is Folk Music? This is...
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 04:49 AM

Had a look at the OPs first video clip. Bland but inoffensive. Not sure that the dancing child added much (should have been in bed!)
How relevant it was to indiginous music, I don't know...But it was OK. Wouldn't bother to go and see them though.