The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:52 AM

Guessing GUEST,The Good Ship Band is really GUEST,The Ship Band

as googling the good ship band does not bring up the [ungood] ship band or this thread unless you use the word ceilidh, which you wouldn't as they are not a folk band.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: BTNG
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:07 AM

You ceased to be fumnny posts ago, "Ship" bugger off

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,The Good Ship Band
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 11:05 AM

Please can someone stop this thread as Its messing up my bands google links and we're nothing to do with it

My Band

Thanks

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 09:52 AM

@GUEST,The Ship Band

You're so funny.

Sorry I meant laughable.

I suggest you and do some research on Gerald Ratner amongst others.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,Dan
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 08:59 AM

Problem is Adam, that comes across as a challenge. And it's not hard to find out how we might get this page to number one on Google...

Also, are you paying per click for the paid ads? So every time someone clicks you have to pay for it? You know what to do everyone... ;)

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: TheSnail
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 08:58 AM

Not drawing any conclusions, but GUEST,L Singer has never posted to Mudcat before (under that name) and hasn't posted again since starting this thread.

GUEST,Skyranger and GUEST,Dick Burst have only ever posted to this thread.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: Silas
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 08:32 AM

Could be a British National ceilidh band?

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,Well Spotted Dick Burst
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 08:30 AM

No, it's not a 'National' ceilidh band, it's just an agency who have a lot of musicians on their books through out the country and put scratch bands together. Simple.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,Skyranger
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 08:09 AM

@Adam - It can't be libellous, because so far I haven't seen anything untrue here. Your attitude alone shows someone with little to no regard for customer service, and someone with very limited social skills.

Also, welcome to the internet. If you don't want clients to see you acting like a rude, self important, unprofessional child, then don't act like one on a public forum. Even if you are one.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 08:08 AM

Ah-hah - spot the style - are they perhaps a "National" ceilidh band?

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 07:54 AM

You sadly give yourself away Adam by trying to take the piss out of a dance troup with a very very long pedigree, firmly founded in the folk tradition, merely in order to distract from your own lack of pedigree in any sort of tradition, or any depth at all.

BTW it's the Brittania Coconut Dancers [ from Bacup ]

Dave H

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,Jigs N Reels Agency
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 07:45 AM

did you see any hemeroids when you last looked ?

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,blogward
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 07:40 AM

@Adam: So is the 'p' silent or not?

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,The Ship Band
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 07:22 AM

Hello again

This thread is brilliant, and not the first time we've sparked heated exchanges on here http://mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=112047. That was another thread also contributed to by Messrs Stephens and Bridge, and we still refer to the comment on there about us looking like we were the "Bees' knees"

So just to clarify a few things, mainly one thing actually:

YES WE ARE MOCKING YOU (well spotted dick).

Also, there is nothing wrong with my web site, and in fact it cleverly solves two problems; 1) When looking for bands (most) people search locally for something that is supplied nationally and b) a lot of young talented musicians do very little about marketing themselves.

Yes, when some people say they want a 'local' band, they mean a 'cheap' band, and they will find the Short-Shorts-Rochdale-Beardy-Coconuting-Banjo-Band if that's what they want. Others search locally without realising even if they're after something better, and they find us.

This Mudcat page however, is (i believe) libellous and currently ranking 15th for Google search term "the Ship Band".

I really don't want to spoil the fun and genuinely enjoy being called a money grabbing twat by weirdy beardy types. In order to ensure that all mudcat users can continue to read this page at their leisure but without any danger that anyone who I would ever want to hear from will accidentally come across it is there any way that someone can add the following meta tag to this page:

[meta name="robots" content="noindex"]

(obviously <> rather than [] but i can't post it otherwise)


Thanks

Adam

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,Jigs N Reels Agency
Date: 27 Oct 11 - 07:08 AM

First of all,thanks to Vic and Sarah for the (unsolicited) endorsements as to how our agency operates.Like anyone else,I enjoy a pat on the back now and then.
But back to the crux of the matter - I could just as easily have set up a website called 'Jigs N Reels Ceilidh Band' promoting myself as caller with my own band of musicians and give an impression to anyone looking at the site that 'this is what you will get'.(In fact,I have considered that option previously and decided against doing so).
For example,Fiona at bandsandmusicians.co.uk promotes her own band (Jigabit) on her website BUT she does not give the impression that this band will necessarily be the band that a client books - she makes it clear that this IDENTIFIABLE band line-up (and I'm sure they must get the odd deps every so often) is an option,subject to contraints of workload/geography/suitability for the event and she also makes it crystal clear that,as an agent,she can arrange for other similar bands to perform.Very straightforward.
Now,with the Ship Band promotion website I suggest that the 'client' thinks that they are going to be enquiring about that particular band.So if you are the Ship Band from Bristol and your punter in Barrow-in-Furness enquires about your band - well,you may wish to do the gig if the fee is right.BUT,if your original intention is to engage another band closer to Cumbria then you are effectively acting either as an 'introducer' (unpaid) - and I'd doubt this - or you are effectively acting as an agent (paid).In the latter case,the promotion website is a promotional ploy to attract clients - and I would consider that to be misleading (albeit,possibly effective but misleading nevertheless).
It would be no different to my representing myself (and the band that I call with most regularly) by way of a website/video clip and pretending that we perform in Truro regularly (being based in Worcs,I think not !).Ok,yeh,we all know that the conversation with your client will run along the lines of 'Oh,sorry,we're already booked on that date but I know a very similar band nearer to Truro bla bla bla...'
In such a scenario,it would be
(a) misleading 'cos the band and I never had the least intention of travelling to Truro
(b) misleading 'cos I would be really just acting as an agent (and should fall under the trading standards of DTI and their mountains of clauses and red tape from which all established agencies suffer)
(c) wasting the time of the client who thought they were checking out a band in the Truro area.
As for the comments about 'bidding for clicks' - frankly,I just can't be arsed to argue the toss or get involved in 'point-scoring'.How you operate PPC is your concern (and mine is mine).
The guy in Oxford should consider Vic's suggestion of Geckoes (or their smaller line-up which they also offer) and also any band that has Flos Headford on fiddle is going to be 'very danceable to'.
Chris Mulvey

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 06:56 PM

Sarah, thanks for some sanity on this totally insane thread :-)

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: Sarah the flute
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 06:28 PM

Another word in praise of Chris Mulvey's agency Jigs "n" Reels who give my band The Flying Chaucers some excellent gigs. They are always well organised and the punters always seem to know exactly what they will be getting music wise which is reassuring from our point of view. This is the good part about using a reputable agency.

Sarah

PS we also play Oxford area

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 06:05 PM

Well, I'm keeping an eye on this intriguing question. As of now(Wednesday evening,Oct 26, 11PMish) the website is still describing the Ship Band as a "Stoke-on-Trent ceilidh band". There are people who might describe this statement as all sorts of things, I will merely say it is a terminological inexactitude. Or,to be more precise, I can't say I've noticed them in evidence round Stoke. They must be keeping an extremely low profile.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 04:56 PM

I'm thinking Dick Burst is a member of this bgus band....really DICK..conning people....into hiring a fake band...one of these days DICK, you're going to get yours....

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: Mary Humphreys
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 04:38 PM

To quote the Ship Band "Of course we use deps, everyone does,"

I beg to differ. Fendragon put on our contract that we usually go out as a foursome, but in exceptional circumstances ( meaning extreme illness ) we go out as a threesome. I can't remember ever using a deputy because the band would not sound the same.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,Dick Burst
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 04:26 PM

The Ship Band are basically the same arrogant, childish t@ats who annoy session goers at many festivals throughout the year. Ignore them, they are mocking you all.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 03:59 PM

Thank you for the "talented" comment. But I would like to point out that the Ship Band is I'm sure just as talented as other bands on the scene. too. In fact I know they are. They just seem to have sadly fallen into some rather murky marketing waters. Because I am damn sure they are not a Stoke-on-Trent ceilidh band, whatever it says on the internet! Enjoy these sites, by the way, folks. I'll bet they are taken down, or radically modified, very very soon indeed.
I organise barn dances in Stoke-on-Trent, by the way. If that group with long beards who play the Rochdale Coconut Dance care to contact me, I'm sure we can put you on.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 03:45 PM

and The Boat Band is very talented..which is also blindingly obvious ;-)

Seriously, they are, folks, worth booking and very worth dancing to.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 03:40 PM

And which, forgive me if I point out Greg, has some artistic integrity rather than being happy to sell its birthright for a mess of pottage.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: greg stephens
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 03:10 PM

May I point out the(blindingly obvious) fact that this shape-changing "Ship Band" has no connection with the Boat Band. Which is more than willing to play barn dances in Oxford, or indeed anywhere else, if the price is right.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 02:55 PM

question: if these"top musicians" are so good, why aren't they performing in the UK's top performing folk bands and acts?

answer: because the so called musicians don't exist except in the mind(s) of the perpetrators of this cheap and very shabby con

-----------------------------------------------------------------------

You've been sussed...give it up and, please, go away. Thank you

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 02:50 PM

"we regularly book musicians that would otherwise be performing in some of the UK's top performing folk bands and acts"

Maybe you should let them!

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: Chris Partington
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 02:35 PM

I assume that Guest Absolute Ship is a troll with no connection to the band; Guest Ship Band may be the genuine article or not, but would do well to remember that not everyone listening in is necessarily of the same opinion as each other, but will uniformly be offended by some of your remarks.

Well, all the hoo-haa has reminded me that I should get a move on and do some work on the marketing side with my band(s). I'm afraid I keep losing interest and forgetting what I've done so far in terms of assembling piccys and stuff. Once I've got my act together I'll put it through the spell-checker (note to The Ship Band, not sarcastic, we all have our little ways). Then if I get really keen I'll hope to make a website as seductive as The Ship Band's. And then I'll be in a position to be marketable by an agent. I am not upset if that makes me part of the entertainment industry, I'm providing a service for money.

Other than a noticeable number of spelling mistakes and over-enthusiastic cloning of the site to make it misleadingly look as if they're local to several places at once, I can see no fraudulent claims on there, nothing that many other bands don't also claim.

Their members, like many bands, are spread around a bit, which presumably provides the excuse for all those websites, (a real put-off), they are willing to travel for gigs, they tell you who's likely to be in the band. And yes, everybody uses deps, too. Whoever it is each time, I've no doubt they deliver an acceptable product.

Still, they should rein in the webmaster. People notice these things.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 12:53 PM

GUEST,absolute ship the ("p" is silent, the "t" isn't) obviously takes fraud seriously....it's a criminal offense, sunshine, just remember that

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: Mo the caller
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 12:42 PM

"I have often wondered who .... come across my site through Google searches for which we rank 25 (ceilidh band Oxfordshire) rather than clicking on the paid link at the top of every page"

Why should I click a paid link? I always use the seach results so that I can compare things myself, not the paid adverts.
Last time I clicked a paid ad I was looking for CAB and it took me to someone who offered to sort all your problems - for a fee.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,martin ellison
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 12:26 PM

I lost a long post addressed to Mr shipband just then, no idea why. I can't be bothered to write it all again so I think I can condense it thus:

What an ignorant, patronising, insulting, money-grabbing twat you are.

Martin Ellison

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,absolute ship
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 12:18 PM

"I also don't like the designation of folk music as "the entertainment industry"" - hahaha does that make folk music 'above' or 'below' the entertainment industry or does it simply mean it is not entertaining and should only be preformed sat on cold hard backed chairs on out of tune instruments? - @richard bridge - if folk music suddenly became even more popular would you stop liking it? What is a ceilidh if not entertainment, I'm pretty sure it's billed as that as part of the reception at wedding for example.

I think 'fraud' has been mistaken for heavily marketed. It would appear that every other are of the music scene has managed to progress in terms of how it markets itself - why not folk? I've heard of a bunch of tossers who use an arrogant, old fashioned and inclusive forum called mudcat to whinge about folk music not being like it was 'in the old days' posting nude pictures made in photoshop of A.L Lloyd and discussing the rumours that Cecil Sharp could bring 3 woman to climax with with the flick of his collectors fountain pen and now i have experienced this first hand.

Bravo - most amused and certainly i feel recruited as a new member, i'll certainly be checking back in the future to reacquaint myself with the ignoramus' that still dilute what is actually becoming a progressive and professional industry.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: BTNG
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 10:28 AM

the "p" is silent the "t" isn't...by the by, nice try by someone who's a regular (obviously) at passing themselves off as The Ship (silent "p") Band, a plot twist one could see coming a mile off LOL but that's old Mudcat for ya!;-)

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,blogward
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 10:21 AM

Is that 'Ship' with a silent 'p'?

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: Will Fly
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 10:11 AM

The idea that a group of musicians that get together to rehearse the Rochdale Coconut Dance and compare notes on the beards hanging below the bottom rim of their short shorts once a week are more qualified as a band than the "scratch band" of professional / semi-professional musicians that we put together is laughable.

Oh - really?

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,Spanish Jim
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 09:01 AM

The Glorystrokes! They're based just up the road and can be relied on to put a nice gentle, pleasant night together.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: Vic Smith
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 08:40 AM

Yes, certainly Geckoes. They performed at our Lewes Folk Festival earlier this month and were pretty damn good.

And whilst I am writing, could I put in a word for Chris Mulvey and his Jigs'n'Reels agency, as he has posted in this thread. Our band, The Sussex Pistols, generally get plenty of work, thank you very much - and we have encountered some not-entirely-honest sharp operators amongst agents so that generally, when agents approach us, we say, "We don't work through agents, thank you very much." However, Chris approaches us several times a year and we always take the gigs that he offers us if we are free. He is friendly, easy to work with and efficient and I would recommend him to anyone. I don't think that he has bands that are "on his books"; I think he has - over the years - built up a network of bands that he knows that he can work with in different parts of the country.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 08:00 AM

Geckoes...

Baz

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 07:51 AM

It seems to me that the promotional practices of "the Ship Band" are considerably less than honest. I've had this problem before (when I did co-run a folk club that paid guests) with bands who are not the people one expects or who are not the players on their demos, and who sound crap in comparison to what one was expecting. Club members were disappointed by the quality of the acts provided.

I also don't like the designation of folk music as "the entertainment industry". You can keep Mr Cowell and stick him where the sun does not shine.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,Cat Kelly
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 07:43 AM

Hi, thanks for the mention Mo.

Yes I'm happy to advise on ceilidh bands in Oxfordshire - please get in touch on [e-mail]. (I do the bookings for Oxfolk ceilidhs and am also a caller and musician myself.)

Re The Ship Band; for what it's worth I have both called and played with them. They are nice chaps who take the music and the industry seriously, but themselves less so. And sometimes they're a bit too cheeky for their own good ;)

Cheers
Cat x

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,Skyranger
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 06:22 AM

To be honest, now I just wouldn't want to book you because you seem unnecessarily offensive and unprofessional. Not to mention pretty self-important.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,The Ship Band
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 05:32 AM

I have often wondered who it is that has that much spare time on their hands that they come across my site through Google searches for which we rank 25 (ceilidh band Oxfordshire) rather than clicking on the paid link at the top of every page, but I really should have made the connection between this practise and Mudcat users.

"I was shocked to find that within the folky genre there are people that are trying to hoodwink clients to make a fast buck."…….. Brilliant, although I prefer to think of myself as being part of the "entertainment industry" than the "folky genre". I realise this is beyond the aspirations of some of our "reputable" competitors.

@ Chris from Jigs n reels: Are you actually concerned about our model, or more so about the fact that we consistently outbid you on Adwords? Also FYI, we are "the ship band from Bristol" as well, and we don't advertise in Aberdeen.

Of course we use deps, everyone does, we just do it more efficiently and we regularly book musicians that would otherwise be performing in some of the UK's top performing folk bands and acts

The idea that a group of musicians that get together to rehearse the Rochdale Coconut Dance and compare notes on the beards hanging below the bottom rim of their short shorts once a week are more qualified as a band than the "scratch band" of professional / semi-professional musicians that we put together is laughable.

We have a long and growing list of satisfied customers and are very much looking forward to more slanderous posts on Mudcat in the future.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 03:50 AM

i should have added that flos and neil also play in the old swan band which gives a clue to what monty's maggot sounds like!

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Oct 11 - 03:47 AM

you could try monty's maggot (www.montysmaggot.co.uk - not too flash a site!). I live in Oxfordshire, flos is in gloucester or shropshire, neil in manchester. Nina Hansell depped with us at wallingford bunkfest with her husband calling - they live in wallingford.
jerry

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,Jigs 'N' Reels Agency
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 06:42 PM

As a specialist agency,we represent only ceilidh,barn dance and hoedown bands and several bands that we list are either in Oxford area or willingly travel to Oxford.Of course,we charge a commission/admin fee included within any quoted fees.Bands can vary in numerous aspects which Mo touched upon above.Though I am a caller myself,we do state quite clearly that we are an agency - so I do share your concerns about 'Ship Band' (I'm presuming that what you say is true) as being a bit,let's say,misleading......clearly,the same band won't be in St Austell or Aberdeen ! (And the Ship Band in Bristol might not be too pleased about the aforementioned website)
If you attend festivals regularly and have contacts amongst singers/performers,I'd suggest that you start with them....singers/musicians usually know 'someone who can....' but that is a lot of legwork/phone calls.Most bands should be able to arrange a 'pre-view' in some way,shape or form or forward references which you can take up.And flash band websites do not always equal good bands.In my area (Worcester),there is a band that I consider one of the best around and they don't even have a website ! Can't put them on my website 'cos I've got no pretty pictures of them !
Of course,this is partly a blatant plug for www.jigsnreels.com as I'm running a business ....but as a folkie as well,I like to think that clients get the right style of bands to suit their event rather than just farm an event out to someone who lives round the corner !
Chris Mulvey

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,Bob
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 05:50 PM

Hi,

I'm in Coventry so Oxford is within my reach - I'm a caller and work with various local bands (and less local as well) so feel free to get in touch.

Bob
bob.ceilidhcalling.co.uk
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: GUEST,Laz Gilbert. caller Leicestershire.
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 05:43 PM

http://www.webfeet.org/

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: Mo the caller
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 05:04 PM

More bands and callers here , but of course, they are there because they want to be, not recommended.
Before you contact a band think about what you want. Loud Folk-Rock, Irish style (fast diddley), English (which sometimes means a lot of polka's, unless you are in the NE when it's rants). Any preferences for instrumentation?
Look on the website, there may be a public ceilidh you can go to, but often bands will arrange for people to pop in to a private gig to hear them.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: Mo the caller
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 03:25 PM

I can't recommend a band, but there is a discusion list for Eceilidh and they list bands and callers here.
Cat Kelly (listed) is a caller involved with organising a ceilidh series Oxfolk, she might be able to advise.
On the other hand, the bands that play for ceilidh series for enthusiasts tend to be Nationally know, there are lots of local bands who play for parties, weddings etc.

Subject: RE: The Ship Band ; Fraud Ceilidh band
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 Oct 11 - 03:18 PM

google oxfordshire ceili bands