Genevieve Tudor

Subject: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 06:48 AM

I've been lurking for a few days, wondering whether or not to join in with the arguments that Lizzie starts but decided that I couldn't be bothered. I'm surprised that she hasn't picked up on this, though.

There may already be a thread on this but I can't find one. Do people know Genevieve Tudor's Sunday Folk on BBC Radio Shropshire is under threat in the latest round of BBC cuts? I'd do a blue clicky but I'm not very good at them. There's information on Facebook and it's easily googled.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: Bernard
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 07:07 AM

Not only Genevieve, but Geoff Speed and Phil Ambrose on BBC Radio Merseyside...

As I've said so often before on this subject, the way forward is the community radio stations. It really isn't worth the effort trying to change the Beeb's attitude - far better to show them by example!!

Ali O'Brien and I were on BBC GMR (now BBC Radio Manchester once again), they axed all the 'specialist music programming', and now we're on Oldham Community Radio 99.7fm (also on the web).

We broadcast live every Monday from 7.00pm to 8.00pm, repeated at the same time on Friday, and our 'Listen Agin' feature goes back a few months, not the measly week the BBC offers!

There are dozens of excellent web-based folk programmes to be found, too - we did a year with Radio Britfolk (now 'The Music Well') between the Beeb and Oldham.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 08:00 AM

I mentioned Genevieve, along with Phil Brown of Radio Lancashire, on another thread as paricularly good examples of the stalwart work that goes on and the depth of musical acceptance within the 'folk scene' (whatever that may be :-) )

Good luck with the campaign to keep her on air. I will certainly join in. I just hope it is not hijacked for personal gain like most good causes seem to be!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 08:28 AM

"I've been lurking for a few days, wondering whether or not to join in with the arguments that Lizzie starts but decided that I couldn't be bothered. I'm surprised that she hasn't picked up on this, though."

And how inflammatory is that, Chris??????


I hope Genevieve gets to stay. Something tells me she won't.

Her show was another I tried to make far more popular on the BBC boards, as I did with Folkwaves. Once again, none of you chose to stand beside me, so eaten up are you with 'trying to make a point' and spewing out venom, as can be seen from that post above.

I doubt there will be any BBC folk programmes left in the end.

You choose to keep your world small and victimise those who try to bring it out...


Go figure...

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 11:02 AM

Her show was another I tried to make far more popular on the BBC boards, as I did with Folkwaves

Please, please, please, please don't try to make Phil Brown's show more popular...

DtG

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 11:26 AM

The thread is about Ms Tudor, not yourselves.

There was indeed a thread a while back, Chris. As to

"I'd do a blue clicky but I'm not very good at them."

Put the link you want ckickified on this thread and I'll turn it into one for you.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: Bernard
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 11:28 AM

Squabbling amongst ourselves won't help matters... the Beeb is totally out of line, ignoring the remit of our licence fee.

Unfortunately, it's a large, lumbering monster that cannot easily change direction...

Historically it has been proved over and over again that complaining makes not one jot of difference, so we must show the corporation by example that wrong decisions have been made.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 11:33 AM

It's here

With the lovely Genevieve pretty much as I rememebr her when she came to Swinton.

And I see no squabbles! Well, not yet anyway :-)

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 11:52 AM

Dave, wasn't there a petition on the last thread?

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 12:18 PM

I don't remember seeing one but you could be right. Maybe Lizzie started one? I don't know. All I have seen is the Facebook page which then links to the online consultation pages of BBCs 'Delivering Quality First' web page here.

Was it that?

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 12:44 PM

I was tangentially involved with the Folwaves campaign to no avail...But having spent my whole working life at the BBC, I was under no illusions as to the outcome. Sadly all specialist music is destined for the chop due to the cap on the license fee, and having to take on the expense of the World Service in the next year or so.
Folk programmes come very low down in the broadcasting food chain. Sad though the losses of shows that have a small but loyal fan base may be, That's the way the bosses see it.
No amount of complaining by certain parties will change anything. Particularly If they're not prepared to stand in the cold winter weather demonstrating about it.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,999
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 01:26 PM

Sorry, Dave. That isn't it, but thank you for trying.

I'm thinking the thread may have been started by GT herself. Can't remember because I only glanced at the thread because I'm not a Brit and my name on a petition wouldn't count for anything.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: BTNG
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 01:43 PM

I'm not Britain, yet I can listen to Genevieve Tudor, on BBC Radio Shropshire, thanks to the miracle of the internet, also thanks to the aforementioned internet, I can ......e-mail...and that's what I've done,to let the BBC know that there are people out there, other than the British, that are listening and will continue to listen for as long as the programmes are there. I can't stand outside the BBC (in the cold) simply because I'm not there, but believe I would if I was there, because I believe strongly enough. I really do dislike defeatist attitudes(of certain parties)

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 01:44 PM

"I'm thinking the thread may have been started by GT herself. Can't remember because I only glanced at the thread because I'm not a Brit and my name on a petition wouldn't count for anything."

No, Bruce. It was started by Chris Murray, a teacher, and a one time poster from the old BBC board, who obviously felt it more important to 'have a go' at me, rather than simply start a thread about Genevieve's show.

Par for the course

And now, back to Genevieve. You can hear her show from last Sunday, here:

Gen's 'Sunday Folk' from BBC Radio Shropshire

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 01:46 PM

I can assure you they won't taken ANY notice, no matter how many stand outside the BBC. If they do not respond to emails, and they didn't with regards to Folkwaves, I know, I sent several, they sure as hell don't give a hoot who's standing outside anywhere...

It's the usual 1% running it all, making cuts wherever they so choose, whilst ensuring their salaries stay the same or grow ever larger...

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 08:37 PM

Oh Lizzie, I was only teasing you. I enjoy the threads in which you start an argument and then say "and now, back to..." when you've wound everybody up!! Most of what I've ever said has been tongue-in-cheek but I suppose it's difficult to convey humour on a message board. I usually expect you to laugh with me. I've always admired your passion for music - and it was you who introduced me to Seth Lakeman and Reg Meuross. I don't argue with you any more. I'm over that.

When I said "I'm surprised she hasn't picked up on this" I meant I was surprised that you hadn't picked up on the fact that Genevieve's show is under threat as I know you're a supporter of hers and thought you would like to know that you might not be able to hear her again. I'm sorry if I didn't express myself very well.

I'm not a teacher any more. The world of education is a better place without me and I can safely say that I'm a lot better off without the misery, abuse and stress.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 08:45 PM

I don't think 'Folkwaves' was cut through lack of support and I don't think that's the reason why 'Sunday Folk' might shut down. I think the BBC is cutting back on minority shows in general. I just thought that Lizzie and other people might like to know.

No, 999, I'm not Genevieve Tudor. Wish I was! I don't think she's the sort of person who'd post under another name.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: Jeri
Date: 05 Nov 11 - 09:52 PM

The personal bullshit is best stepped around. T'would have been best left out altogether, but some can't function without it.

I think 999 meant she started 'the last thread' where he saw the link to the petition. She may have, but I can't find it. She doesn't seem to have posted here since 2003.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 01:22 AM

Thank you, Jeri. Indeed that's what I meant.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 02:52 AM

Unfortunately what Ralphie and others have said about the BBC is not 'defeatist' but a realistic look at how they (BBC) work. Before Folkwaves all the East Midland towns had their own folk show. I ran the one on Radio Nottingham for a number of years and was in charge when the Regionalisation plan scrapped the individual shows in favour of one show - Folkwaves, to cover the whole region. Radio Nottingham listeners came to my aid and bombarded the station and the Midland region office, with letters of complaint, 'Keep our own show'petitions,a demo outside the station, and a campaign in the local press. All to no avail. Face to face talks with the station manager and the regional manager simply brought a load of excuses disguised as reasons. Later I was privately told by an pld BBC hand that even if our petitions had a million asuignatures it wouldn't make any difference. The orders had come from London and had to be obeyed. Local preferences meant nothing. When Folkwaves came under threat I supported them, but just knew that they had no chance either. And they didn't.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 02:54 AM

'Later I was privately told by an OLD BBC hand... Sorry for the typo.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: Acorn4
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 04:11 AM

She runs a great programme and I love her willingness to go off the beaten track a bit with what she plays.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 04:18 AM

She went way off that beaten track when she played one of my cuts a few years back, Acorn4. Surprised the heck outta me.

BTNG: You made a good point. What address did you write to? I'll send them a message also.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 05:10 AM

Burl. Thanks for agreeing with me (Oh and hello...Long time no see!) Everyone who has worked at the BBC both National and Local, fully understand that they have their own agenda, and don't forget, Local Radio wasn't set up to service local communities originally.
Imagine during the cold war, some idiot decided to drop "The Bomb" on London...How would the remains of the government communicate with the public? Not from London obviously...Imagine a bicycle wheel with a broadcasting hub in an undisclosed place...out in the country somewhere...The spokes of this wheel stretched out to a miriad of little radio stations...Thus allowing information to be relayed.
Obviously nowadays, this is all a bit redundant, with the Internet et al. So, Local Radio is being dumbed down, because it has ceased to be relevant. That's the way the cookie crumbles. And first up against the wall are specialist music programmes.
Personally I foresee the end of "Local" BBC stations in the next 10 years. Which would be a shame, if only for the reason that really good broadcasters/engineers learnt their craft there.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 06:16 AM

Is this a good place to ask for a set of links to the podcasts of internet FOLK radio?

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 06:58 AM

Far from me being 'defeatist', our programme ran on BBC GMR for nearly four years, and there were people like Peggy Seeger and Roy Bailey (to name just two) battling to keep us on air. It was already a 'done deal' when we found out, and trying to turn a big lumbering corporation like the Beeb is akin to steering an oil tanker... tugs in the right direction may help, but I've yet to see it happen.

Fact. The BBC take no notice and hide behind corporate mumbo jumbo.

Leave them to it and show them by example. The programmes are bigger than the Beeb and can easily move elsewhere and be just as effective. We did it, and our programme goes from strength to strength - the Hut People are live in the studio tomorrow night (Monday 7th November), plus Stanley Accrington for a quick chat about the MSG concert...

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 08:23 AM

Bernard, Looks like you had the same deal from the Beeb as I had.
I like your last paragraph above. The answer is to find another outlet if you can and go on from there. Well done on making it work.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: rumanci
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 11:18 AM

Here's something people can do from their armchairs if they're so inclined !

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 11:29 AM

"The personal bullshit is best stepped around. T'would have been best left out altogether, but some can't function without it."

no they can't can they.........?

anyway, here's the BBC page to go to to send comments, complaints etc..

BBC Complaints

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 11:53 AM

Thank you for the BBC Complaints link.

I'll post their answer within ten days, that being the time they require to deal with complaints sent by e-mail.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 11:58 AM

actually I thought it might take longer, but we can but wait and see, and enjoy while we may!

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 12:03 PM

Their complaints page after the five-step process has a message that says it may take up to ten days depending on the 'research' they need to do to answer the complaint.

I expect the form letter is already written if the answers I get from Canadian government are any indication. I ain't holding my breath.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 02:57 PM

"The personal bullshit is best stepped around. T'would have been best left out altogether, but some can't function without it."

no they can't can they.........?

Then why bring it up again unless to score a point yourself, and who are 'they'?

Methinks there is a bit of the hypocrite in our resident FLA.

Not causing any personal bullshit whatsoever and, hopefully, refresing this thread at the same time. Get over yourselves :-)

DtG

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 03:13 PM

think as you will, DtG...no skin of my nose..

and more importantly, yes 999 I'm familiar with those forms. the form is out of the drawer or file I hear the scratching of the quill, as the stock answers are put in their appropriate places on said form...ahhhhh Auntie Bebb will take care of it all.... *LOL*

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 03:27 PM

that should be Auntie Beeb

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: Bernard
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 03:29 PM

Everyone who complained when Ali and I were being axed from BBC GMR got a 'standard reply'... they know the complaints are coming, they have their response ready, and, worst of all, they don't care.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,999
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 04:32 PM

"I'm familiar with those forms. the form is out of the drawer or file I hear the scratching of the quill, as the stock answers are put in their appropriate places on said form"

Yeppers, BTNG. My last brief missive to the PM's office was about the misuse [I think it was misuse] of a Search and Rescue helicopter and crew out in Newfoundland. Seems MacKay took the opportunity to fit in a whole half-hour of "let's see how this works in the SAR business". The flight went directly from the fishing lodge he was at to the airport that had the commercial flight he was taking back to Ottawa. It was very convenient.

My e-mail to the PM's office was titled

"Minister MacKay and the misuse of a SAR helicopter

Comments/Commentaires : He does not deserve to have that position. I
trust he will be handing in his resignation and that you will be
accepting it on behalf of Canadians. He has defiled the office."

The above was signed with my home address, etc.

The e-mail I got back from the PM's office read as follows:

"Please know that your e-mail message has been received in the Prime Minister's Office and that your comments have been noted. Our office always welcomes hearing from correspondents and being made aware of their views.

Thank you for writing.

Sachez que le Cabinet du Premier ministre a bien reçu votre courriel et que nous avons pris bonne note de vos commentaires. Nous aimons être bien informés de l'opinion des correspondants.

Je vous remercie d'avoir écrit au Premier ministre."

I have heard nothing since.

#########################################

I have done my share of that kind of work and in all honesty, it usually takes that long to teach a few rope-rescue knots or a hydrant hook-up to newbies.

Governments and large corporations wonder why they have lost the trust and confidence of their voters and customers? They need look no further, imo.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,Palmers Green
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 05:22 PM

"And how inflammatory is that, Chris??????"


people that feel they need to use excessive ammounts of question marks are a bit odd I think.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,Chris Murray
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:17 AM

You're right, though. No more personal bullshit. I intended to just post about Genevieve's show but couldn't resist a bit of bullshitting! I'm glad I've started a bit of a debate about the show.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: GUEST,noddy
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 02:30 PM

Not only has Genevieve supported many major performers but has helped those up and coming and highly talented acts who never quite made it Including a duo very close to my heart as my wife was one of the pair. So I think it only right and proper that we all shout loud and long to keep Folk Music on the Radio.
And for the record Ali O also gave the duo support and airplay.

Subject: RE: Genevieve Tudor
From: BTNG
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 02:36 PM

"people that feel they need to use excessive ammounts of question marks are a bit odd I think.'

Montague Rhodes James said the same thing about those people who used excessive amounts of full stops.