New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk

Subject: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 03:41 AM

There is a brand new UK site for folkies, worth checking out;

http://www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk/

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 03:44 AM

Well, at least it includes the possibly useful coinage "modern folk music".

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 04:18 AM

I don't think the debates will be quite as robust as they are here, but I think it worth supporting

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 06:19 AM

At present any attempt to get to the forum receives:

"Connection Problems

Sorry, SMF was unable to connect to the database. This may be caused by the server being busy. Please try again later."

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: Silas
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 06:22 AM

yes, they appear to be having a few teething problems

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: treewind
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 06:30 AM

It's been in existence for a few months now, but just moved to new hosting, which might explain the teething problems. The new site includes a ready-made gallery feature and lots of photographs, which is useful but is likely to gobble up bandwith.

Maybe it's suffering from the Mudcat Effect, a relative of the Slashdot Effect "when a popular website links to a smaller site, causing a massive increase in traffic. This overloads the smaller site, causing it to slow down or even temporarily close".

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 06:32 AM

Blog's out, too.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 06:41 AM

Looks good at the moment - Very comprehensive too. I shall certainly support it.

Thanks for th eheads up.

DtG

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 09:33 AM

Thanks for the offer langchanp, but Beats by Dr Dre headphones are never cheap. They're also not very good headphones. Sennheiser and Beyer headphones are much better.

Fighting the war against Spam with You And Yours-style helpful consumer advice...

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 11:28 AM

Looks like Alan has ironed out the bugs in this new forum and it is all up and running again - just need a few members and some contributions...

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 11:30 AM

is the world ready for this......?

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 11:41 AM

BTNG - well we are, don't know about you, but frankly, it worries me not a lot.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 11:47 AM

It doesn't bother me one way or the other, personally, the site will either thrive or it will not.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 01:38 PM

Well it provides what we need in the UK. Alan is doing a great job.
Great that we have something in the UK that IMHO is far better than Mudcat (and that is saying something). At least we understand each other here in the UK.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: GUEST
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 02:41 PM

Yes I agree that a good UK site is well overdue, but mudcat will always be mudcat and will always be there.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 03:04 PM

Yes of course Mudcat wil always be here.
However, at times it is nice to chat to Ukers who understand out humour and what a the UK is about.

Sometimes UKers are made to feel second rate on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 03:11 PM

It's a commercial site, which MC isn't.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 03:12 PM

How do you mean?

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: Will Fly
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 03:15 PM

Sometimes UKers are made to feel second rate on Mudcat.

No - not true. I've never been made to feel that in any way. I suspect that many of our American friends get pissed off with the interminable "what is folk music" wrangles that turn up. I also suspect that the mud-slinging, name-calling and vituperation that arises from time to time between - mainly - UK 'Catters is wearisome in the extreme.

It's also true that many of the long-serving Mudcat people are American - not particularly strange when you consider the origins of the Forum - and there will inevitably be strong links between that set of people. Nothing weird in that.

Mudcat, in my comparatively short time here, is a vibrant, exuberant, fascinating forum, with more sheer knowledge and expertise in it than anyone could imagine. Treat it with respect - and you get treated with respect, whever you hail from.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 03:27 PM

some UKers get pissed off with the interminable "what is folk music" wrangles, and I certainly don't feel second rate, no reason to.

so I go to this new site, and what's the first headline I see on the front page?

What is folk music.

there's no answer, of course.

and, you know, there is a certainly slickness about the site, not sure if that's what John MacKenzie meant but Mudcat definitely isn't slick, and that's part of the charm in't it?

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 03:52 PM

Having read the user terms, I have decided, for the time being, not to register. Incidentally, the bit about not posting anything that is in breach of international or United States Federal law strikes me a moronic. Firstly, if it is a UK forum it should refer to the laws of or applicable in any part of the United Kingdom. Secondly, if like all good colonial states it is going to require us to observe US Federal law, why not require us to observe US state law as well (which in some states prohibits anything but missionary position sex)?

Bah!

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 04:02 PM

Good point Richard. Just gone off it.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: GUEST,UK Folk Music
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 04:58 PM

Thank you all for your interest in the Forum and indeed the website, I'm sure you will be in for some surprises in the near future.

We take on board all your comments and have amended the Forum login accordingly. The Forums is easy to navigate and lively.

We did have a few issues today because of an upgrade that didn't work and corrupted the database. That took some hours to put right and the login message was part of the re-installed program.

The concept of UK Folk Music might be a little difficult for some people to grasp, as it's unlike any other folk music website. The website is almost at the end of a complete re-design and the new look is really clean and professional in appearance - we hope to launch very soon.

The Forum which your members refere to is only a small (but important) part of the whole concept. In addition to the Forum - The Gallery is now fully functional and in the new year we will be featuring Folk Music Podcasts from within UK Folk Music. The podcasts will be catering for the UK and will cover the nation with regional folk programs from familiar presenters.

We invite members of Mudcat to view what UK Folk Music has to offer and welcome interest from folk music fans worldwide.

Yours

[e-mail]

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: GUEST,UK Folk Music
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 05:06 PM

I read the comment about 'What is Folk Music' with interest, and agree with the poster....However, the reason for it's inclusion on the UK Folk Music index page is - it's one of the most popular Google Search keyword terms, and likely to lead people to the UK Folk Music website.

Keywords are very important in achieving high ranking and results in Google the term was included with the sole intention of appealing to people using it in Google Search.

Hope that explains why it's used...

Alan
[e-mail]

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 05:30 PM

"What is Folk Music" is a key question for anything that purports to be a folk music site. And it is not incapable of resolution if people apply intelligence and logic. It is also avoided by the site's use of the expression "modern folk music" which would solve the problem if some did not feel the need to exterminate or subsume folk music.

I may go back to the login in due course. User terms should be drafted by a lawyer with relevant expertise.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: GUEST,UK Folk Music
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 06:06 PM

Richard,
Perhaps I should have made it a little clearer for you to understand.

The login message is part of the program which runs the UK Folk Music Forum - and it was there in error, and has been removed.

The 'What is Folk Music' term seems to be perpetuated mainly by Mudcat Cafe if you try a Google Search....perhaps if it wasn't mentions so much on here, it would disappear...

Thanks for the opportunity for me to mention UK Folk Music again.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: BTNG
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 06:36 PM

"What is Folk Music' term seems to be perpetuated mainly by Mudcat Cafe"

ad nauseum ad infinitum

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 06 Nov 11 - 07:32 PM

As another site and yes I'm doing weel but have had a couple tonight so.....

Sometimes UKers are made to feel second rate on Mudcat.

No I suspect in terms of US vs UK. UK is over represented on MC and is freely permitted a loud voice by it's US owner.

"What is Folk Music' term seems to be perpetuated mainly by Mudcat Cafe"

I think that comes down to Mudcat being the biggest Internet forum, certain people always willing to be divisive and others willing to jump in (often again)to their side of the cause. Not sure you can't have it and be that open (or perhaps be taking sides)...

My own personal probably biggest gripe these days...

Mudcat is the main centre of attention but not even close to being a centre of sharing of folk. I'm being a touch harsh her but in sort of principle while the Mudcat busily copy pastes the next set of lyrics to get stuck in the dt or a thread because no one can really upset the system and Mudcatters pat themselves on the back, the rest of us are looking at technologies such as abc, means of sharing, etc.

In that respect, Mudcat has been the biggest bottle neck and non interested (at least in terms of Mudcat membership) party I'm aware of.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:29 AM

The registration terms have now been removed.

Jon, I would like to see a readier method of getting melodies to songs too, but quite a lot of the DT does have some sort of rendering of a tune - although the tinny little piano sound is annoyingly hard to fit to the words, usually, I find. But it's better than nothing.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:50 AM

I suppose so, Richard and I apologise for my outburst last night. I should keep my feelings to myself...

Re fitting words to the tunes. I need to improve on this but an example of an attempt at doing this from the lyrics in a karaoke type midi file can be found on the song links at the folkinfo database, eg. try the kar link on this page.

While the dt abc conversion I made, will send the abc through our abc converter for transposing, printing, etc. I haven't tried the online karaoke player with the dt.

I did however have a go at writing Folk Play. This stand alone application downloads the folkinfo song database but can also add the (2002 version) dt database.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: John J
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 11:59 AM

It looks rather similar to 'The Annexe' that had some activity a few years back - anyone know if there's a connection?

JJ

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: Paul Burke
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 12:20 PM

I hope you achieve critical mass, unlike some previous essays in the field (remember the Folk Map?). The Session has a good deal of continuity, and that might be partly due to rather ruthless moderation and readiness to bar unruly members.

As for the similarity to other forums, I suspect that's what comes out of the box, along with the references to US law.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: Jack Campin
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 12:26 PM

Looks reasonable but rather too late. It doesn't add a whole lot that I can't find on Mudcat already.

Like Richard Bridge I would never have registered if the site had insisted on applying the law of a foreign country to whatever I wrote. But now there is no visible user agreement at all. That doesn't make sense.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 12:31 PM

Well, there's no user agreement here either. I would suggest a reader agreement that says that any reader (tick box entry) waives any cause of action that (s)he might otherwise have against the site or its operators or posters in respect of any material appearing on the site. That would get round a problem that nearly brought the Volvo Owners' Club forum down.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: GUEST,UK Folk Music
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 12:40 PM

There's no pleasing some people is there!! :P

We're pleased you're happy with Mudcat Cafe Jack, we are not trying to be the same as any other site - what would the point be..?

What we are is flexible and commercial and will be encouraging advertising to allow us to include features like Folk Music podcasts with interactive web pages in the new year.

The whole project is new and constantly looking for new ideas, we welcome helpful comments and enthusiastic contributions which will help to make it unique on the Folk Scene in the UK.

We already have the support of some high profile folk music artists who are able to understand the potential of UK Folk Music and will help it to develop.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 12:51 PM

The only Annexe I can think of was a forum I started a several years ago. There is no connection between that one and ukfolkmusic.co.uk. That particular Annexe started life as a UBB clone written ASP which was then modified and then later shared it code with the folkinfo.org forum. It would have looked closest to the ukfolkmusic board in its original form.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: BTNG
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 01:05 PM

GUEST,UK Folk Music...the world is ready for your site...oh...and pay no mind to Campin...if you do, nothing'll ever get done

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 01:14 PM

Christ you lot, what are you on? Its a bloody UK folk site and forum, its not the bloody EU constitution FFS

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: stallion
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 01:48 PM

so much "handbags" only on mudcat!

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: BTNG
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 01:50 PM

wonderful looking site, I hope it pans out as intended.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 02:28 PM

Silas. Its British and that means a lot to us. Chill :-)

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: BTNG
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 02:34 PM

"Silas. Its British and that means a lot to us"

There are somthings some people don't or won't understand

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 02:40 PM

:-)

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: Sue Allan
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:16 PM

I tried to register but did NOT want to enter my birth date although would have been quite happy to tick a box saying 'over 18'.

I don't actually see any reason I should give my birth date, especially as the form says "We require that you enter your birthday as to comply with US law." Surely we abide by UK law here?

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: BTNG
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 06:32 PM

and in Canada we abide by Canadian law, not U.S. law.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: Will Fly
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 07:00 PM

I wasn't asked to give my date of birth. I'm in the UK.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: BTNG
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 07:18 PM

on UK Folk Music a really great BBC documentary Still Folk Dancing - After All These Years with The Unthank Sisters

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 07:41 PM

Well they let me and Will Fly in, so they obviously have no standards at all.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 09:43 PM

I'm pretty sure the date condition has gone.

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: GUEST
Date: 07 Nov 11 - 09:57 PM

no idea I only got as far as watching Still Folk Dancing - After All These Years

Subject: RE: New UK Folk Site and Forum-www.ukfolkmusic.co.uk
From: katlaughing
Date: 08 Nov 11 - 12:01 AM

Good luck. It looks a decent site even to this unreconstructed, ignorant US of A'er.:-)

WillFly and Jon, thanks for your comments!

Sheesh, there are some MOGs on here. You git yer own forum and yer still at each others' throats. I think it's a UK thing...yer not happy without taking the piss outta each other all the time!**BG**

kat