Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Bill D
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 10:07 AM

Ya' know...*I* had never heard of Lonnie Donegan until Mudcat came along.

There are all sorts of reasons why one name escapes notice on one side or other of the pond.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Anne Neilson
Date: 13 Dec 11 - 09:50 AM

Many thanks to those who posted the clickies to video clips -- have been enjoying pootling around the various links.

(And a thank you to Desert Dancer for reminding me of a good time with lots of good people!)

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: kendall
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 11:15 PM

It was a tongue in cheek question. no more, no less.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Elmore
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 10:02 PM

attn:dd: yes, lower case. sorry

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 08:17 PM

Guest Jon, how do you know how I took it?

By your response

"The English invented folk? Really? I wonder what that was I was listening to back in the 40's? Burl Ives, Pete Seeger, etc."

But there again perhaps I was wrong in reading irony or sarcasm in the post you replied to or perhaps did not understand your ironic reply to the irony, etc.

...

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 08:07 PM

I believe it was all lower-case letters, Elmore.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Elmore
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 07:53 PM

Good. Then it's settled. Ronnie Gilbert is THE QUEEN OF FOLK. Thank God.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 05:37 PM

I see Thomas Stern and I cross-posted. Also that a list of earlier Mudcat threads has been generated and appears at the top of the page.

~ Becky in Tucson, actually
(I vacillate and keyboard autopilot must have failed!)

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 05:32 PM

Ronnie Gilbert website

Wikipedia on Ronnie Gilbert

results of Google search for "Ronnie Gilbert" videos

results of Google search for "the Weavers"

The Weavers had their performing/recording peak in the early'50s, and for those of a later generations and without much interest in the folk revival in the U.S., especially if you're a strict "traddie", I suppose it's possible to have missed them (and Ronnie Gilbert) completely. But, if you have any interest in the influences on your influences, you might want to look 'em up.

~ Becky in Long Beach
(with fond memories of Anne from CDSS Folk Music Week ca. 1999)

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Thomas Stern
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 05:23 PM

a thread on Ronnie Gilberts recordings, films etc. was posted
here: Ronnie Gilbert recordings

and some YOUTUBE hits: Ronnie Gilbert on youtube


Best wishes, Thomas.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Don Firth
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 05:01 PM

Actually, if I may be so bold:

I believe folk music was invented by some hairy dude with heavy brows and wearing a bearskin while he sat there in the mouth of his cave banging a couple of rocks together and grunting.

Unfortunately, where this seminal event took place, history fails to tell us.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Anne Neilson
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 04:16 PM

Putting in a plea for a technical magician to post a blue clicky for something from the lady herself!

My personal preference would be for a clip from "Wasn't that a Time!" featuring Ronnie rehearsing 'Venga Jaleo' ahead of the reunion concert. And I know there's also a video clip of Ronnie and Holly Near talking over and singing the song about the Disappeared in S America. (But not, please, any of the TV programme appearances, which seemed quite at odds with the live experience.)

But might there not also be audio clips from various Weavers LPs? What about the great Round the World medley, where the wonderful energy of the whole group and its rhythmic 'engine' was displayed?

If a magical elf -- Mr Joe, please? -- could accomplish any of the above, I would consider that my Christmas had come early!

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Crowhugger
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 03:40 PM

Just so all y'all know, in MY house, I am Queen of Folk!

























;-)

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: kendall
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 03:19 PM

Definition of Folk music: Heavy Mental

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: GUEST,Paul Burke
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 02:28 PM

pardonnez moi, aussi pour "logstanding"

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 02:27 PM

I didn't know folk in the 60's (being a little boy) and resented it violently in the 70s. We (i.e. me and my mates then) saw American influence as pervasive and corrosive. Cultural imperialism, layering on the bougeois imperialism that had marginalised "real" English folk music. The search for "real folk" quickly brought us into contact with the Irish session scene, which was so much more vibrant than anything else we found around (Manchester UK) that I didn't bother with much else for the best part of 20 years.(We'd forgotten about the "English" bit by then).

So I never heard of many excellent folk singers from over there, until much later on. But I'll still reiterate my criticisms from back then, My take on US folk music in 1973 was:

Style trumps content.
It was fashion music- the singers didn't really mean it.
Its roots were shallow (the old are often insanely jealous of the young...)
It had a cachet thanks to media exposure that native traditions didn't have. East altantic traditions had always to be explained, showcased, even apologised for. American music could be played without explanation.
And worst of all, practically ALL the newly composed music based itself on American models. (Actually the stuff that sounded English we thought was of ancient composition...)

So that's one reason why many logstanding UK folkies might not be as familiar with certain artists as they ought to be.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: kendall
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 02:22 PM

Guest Jon, how do you know how I took it?

Those who think they know everything really annoy those of us who do.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: theleveller
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 01:37 PM

Purely for my own amusement I decided to look back through my vinyl collection from the 60s and see what my early influences were with regard to American folk music. No Ronnie, I'm afraid, but there was Mike Seeger, New Lost City Ramblers, Derrol Adams, Guy Carawan, Peggy Seeger and Tom Paley, Woodie Guthrie, Ramling Jack Elliot, Dave Van Ronk, Tom Paxton, Dick amd Mimi Farina, Phil Ochs..........no, I wasn't into folk music in the 60s.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: GUEST,Jon
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 08:15 AM

Who the fuck said anywhere that the English invented folk?

Wesley S in post dated 09 Dec 11 - 03:38 PM

I don't think it was intended to be taken the way Kendall did.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: TheSnail
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 08:07 AM

I think Martin Carthy was once described as the Crown Prince of Folk.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: theleveller
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 07:59 AM

"The English invented folk? Really?"

Who the fuck said anywhere that the English invented folk? I think you'll find that the tradition goes back way beyond the 1940s, though. I seem to have hit a tender spot with those on the other side of the pond because I don't happen to have heard of one artist. Tough shit - get over it.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: GUEST,Roger Knowles
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 05:09 AM

Hey, Kendall,
I'm a Brit who has heard, and enjoyed the music of Wilma Lee Cooper, I also saw Ronnie Gilbert with the Weavers. Liked her too.
We are in agreement.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: kendall
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 04:37 AM

The English invented folk? Really? I wonder what that was I was listening to back in the 40's? Burl Ives, Pete Seeger, etc.

Almost everything boils down to opinion. A while back we had a young know it all here who thought ELO was folk.

Of all the female country singers, I always liked Wilma Lee Cooper because she was so REAL.How many Brits have heard of her?

By the by, I love Ronnie Gilberts singing.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: theleveller
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 04:07 AM

"how can you be into folk music and not no who the weavers and ronnie gilbert are?"

What a totally arrogant statement. Why do you automatically assume that because someone if well-kmowm in America they'll be equally well-kmown in Britain? Yes, I have heard the Weavers from time to time - not my kind of folk at all. As for Ronnie Crilley, I've been involved in folk music for not far short of 50 years and I've never come across her. I'm sure there are plenty of British folk atrists you've never heard of but I wouldn't go around impuning your involvement in folk music because of it. If you feel the need for a folk "queen" (what a sad idea)then feel free to nominate some local celebrity - just don't expect those to whom she has no relevance at all to agree with you.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Gibb Sahib
Date: 11 Dec 11 - 01:25 AM

GUEST(S)--
Please identify yourself before stirring up controversy.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 08:59 PM

I dont agree with the title I just thought it was an interesting discussion topic shes a great singer with many talents. and how can you be into folk music and not no who the weavers and ronnie gilbert are?

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Anne Neilson
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 01:21 PM

And apologies to Elmore -- I must have assumed that he was the original poster from his leap to defend the lady herself.

I have endless admiration for RG and count her as one of my major influences -- along with such giants as Jeannie Robertson, Lizzie Higgins et al.

And I have a fond memory of a great TV documentary featuring Ronnie and Holly Near -- and an astonishing song about 'the Disappeared' in South America (ashamed to say that I can't reliably remember whether or not it's about Chile -- but some other 'catter will sort me, please!). The interaction between the two singers - separated by several decades of experience - was magical to witness.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Elmore
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 10:23 AM

Attn: E Kane Please note. I did not initiate this thread. Someone made a rude remark about Ronnie Gilbert. Then, I replied with a brief outline of Ronnie's career. Unfortunately, I concluded with my own rude remark, and the thread and I went downhill from there. I think you may have rescued it. Your response was quite interesting. Regards, Elmore

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Anne Neilson
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 03:29 AM

Sorry to see that this thread has become a bit crotchety -- but, equally, not too sure about Elmore's original intention (although there is a possible precedent here in Scotland for Belle Stewart, who is now often referred to as "Queen amang the Heather", from the title of one of her favourite songs and used by her daughter Sheila for her biography of Belle).

Anyway, I didn't want to let this chance pass to acknowledge the significant impact of Ronnie Gilbert on myself and others near Glasgow in the 1950s -- we were members of the late Norman Buchan's Ballads Club at Rutherglen Academy, and hoovering up songs avidly. We learned Scottish bothy ballads, the Muckle Sangs, skiffle, Glasgow street songs, Woody Guthrie songs, and LOTS of American material. Norman's sources for US songs were Sing Out magazine and LPs including the Weavers and Pete Seeger (amongst others). So, very early on, we came to know Ronnie Gilbert's wonderfully versatile voice, whether it was the delicate restraint of 'Bye n' Bye', the sweetness of 'Kisses Sweeter than Wine', the uninhibited drive in chorus songs like 'Tzena Tzena' and -- most wonderfully -- the passion in songs like 'Venga Jaleo', from the Spanish Civil War. Indeed, the latter song was one of the most memorable sections of the film of the Weavers' Reunion, with Ronnie rehearsing with Fred Hellerman over a kitchen table and inevitably being drawn back in to the force of the words.

And I was lucky enough to see her and the Weavers live in Glasgow (early 1960s, I think), and can attest to the taste, energy and sheer enjoyment that she brought to the whole performance. A wonderful introduction to the great variety of folk music -- and a conduit to some of the more traditional singers like Jean Ritchie.
So, thank you, Ronnie -- from a fan!
Anne Neilson.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Don Firth
Date: 10 Dec 11 - 12:55 AM

Nobody mentioned Jean Ritchie.

I agree that "Queen of Folk" is a goofy concept, but there seems to be a lot of fog about.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Elmore
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 06:40 PM

or Louisa Jo Killen

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Paul Burke
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 06:02 PM

Queen of folk music?

Peter Bellamy of course.

Or Shirley Collins.

No, none of the above.

MARGARET BARRY. If she were queen, I'd be a monarchist.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Elmore
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 03:43 PM

Leeneia, Agreed, There is no queen of folk music. I never said, or thought there was such a person. There are some wonderful, talented performers whom nobody would call stars. Stars is a term reserved for performers who are tools of the multinational corporations. I wish I were a tool of the multinational corporations.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: GUEST,Wesley S
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 03:38 PM

The English invented folk music back in 1954 but they still have a lot to learn.

Try this you tube link.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i9Up7ozplwI

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Elmore
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 02:56 PM

Because I Can't type. Actually, I meant The Tune Weavers.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 11:12 AM

If you mean The Tannahill Weavers, certainly. BTW why are you Starting Every Word With A Capital?

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Elmore
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 10:57 AM

Did You Ever Hear of The Weavers ? Jeez

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 10:54 AM

Don't be silly, Elmore. There's more than one way to be 'into folk.' Some people want to make music, others follow the celebrities.

I belong to the first group and couldn't care less who's the queen the folk. I thought this thread was going to be about the Two Ronnies.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 10:52 AM

"How long have you been into folk music, 15 minutes?"

Since 1964 - still never heard of her, or HARP. Obviously doesn't travel.

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: Elmore
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 10:44 AM

Ronnie Gilbert's beautiful contralto voice was a driving force behind the success of the most important folk music ever, The Weavers. She also had a successful acting and solo singing career, and, on occasion worked with Holly Near. She, Holly Pete and Arlo, under the name HARP recorder a memorable double album' How long have you been into folk music, 15 minutes?

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: theleveller
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 04:23 AM

I agree with the above. And who the hell is Ronnie Gilbert?

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: GUEST,from Tokyo
Date: 09 Dec 11 - 12:11 AM

I think so,too.

Kiyohide

Subject: RE: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: GUEST,SirCoughsalot
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 07:43 PM

I think titles like king and queen are contrary to the spirit of folk music.

Subject: Folklore: Ronnie Gilbert queen of folk
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Dec 11 - 07:30 PM

I was reading another article well discussion i guess you could say about whom should be named queen of folk. A whole bunch said Joan baez and Judy Collins and only one mentioned Ronnie. In my opinion I think YES 100% it should be Ronnie. what does everyone else think. also they said that Bob Dylan was the king of folk which I strongly disagree