Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'

Subject: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: GUEST,Stuart Reed
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 09:04 AM

This author of this remarkable statement is Mudcat's own Suibhne Astray in a thread about music for dementia sufferers. In case that rather specific thread may not have been of general interest I hope this cross-post is seen as relevant to the board as a whole, done in the spirit of one whose gob has been properly smacked.

On the subject of a suitable repertoire, Suibhne had argued: "...it's not just a matter of songs, but particular recordings...because they carry the key to our entire cultural identity. Singing live just doesn't carry the same significance; it's reductive and utterly bogus."

Subject: RE: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: John P
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 09:41 AM

Sorry, this quote is completely out of context, which makes me not want to bother following up on what you say. Are you saying that Mr. Astray actually believes that? Somehow I doubt it, which makes me doubly unwilling to follow up on what you say.

Subject: RE: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: Mr Happy
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 10:29 AM

This thread is closed

Subject: RE: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 10:36 AM

Cheap indeed! Stick to the thread & keep it in context.

Subject: RE: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 10:46 AM

Wait a minute while I look up what 'reductive' means.

Subject: RE: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: GUEST,999
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 12:01 PM

"Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'"

Well, singing dead is fookin' near impossible!

Subject: RE: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 02:12 PM

Stuart - dear friend and with deepest respect - I think it's pretty obvious where Suibhne is coming from in his posts on the 'dementia' thread. The thought of being sung at by well-intentioned people who think they know what you would like to hear - when you're incapable, or almost incapable of resisting the experience - can be quite horrendous.

My dear mother - now nearly 90 and totally incapable of movement or recognition of anything (as far as we know) - has spent a few years out of this communal musical experience, being totally immobile and, we think, vegetative. Before she became completely immobile, she endured a few years of being wheeled into a mildly urine-scented lounge while earnest, kindly people sang songs she had no interest in. Just a minor change from the incessant background television that blethered away all day.

But who knows what she thought now, because she gives no clue as to what thoughts, if any, are passing through her head.

I'd rather fall over pissed, crack my skull, have a brain haemmorhage and die alone in my bed in my flat - not found for 6 weeks - than go through the hell of dementia. This happened to a hard-drinking mate of mine just recently - died quickly and with no fuss. I know which going I'd prefer.

Which brings me back to the thread topic: singing live in the context of the other thread may well be boring and reductive for the poor buggers being exposed to it. Let's hope it isn't. Singers - don't just assume that because you're doing something you think is worthy, that it actually is.

Subject: RE: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: GUEST,999
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 02:18 PM

Only way to be 100% sure is to do nothing.

Subject: RE: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 03:05 PM

That's just another form of the Great-You-Shut-Up, Will. "Don't make any music in the nursing home because one of the patients might not like it."

I've played in nursing homes and seen residents being attentive and appreciative. If nothing else, it relieves the boredom.

Subject: RE: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: GUEST,Crowsis
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 03:17 PM

Can't say as I enjoy 80's pub covers bands too much (or any pub covers band), I guess an even more watered down version of poptastic 80's hits is what what I'd be fed at an old folks home in my dotage. Some brightly smiling balding man with a backing beat (not too loud) and clearly announced vocals: "Take. On. Meee.. (everybody!)" Mmm..

Subject: RE: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 03:20 PM

Would talking be OK?

Subject: RE: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: Doug Chadwick
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 03:43 PM

.... singing live in the context of the other thread may well be boring and reductive for the poor buggers being exposed to it. ....

Is being forced to listen to someone else's choice of recorded music any better?


DC

Subject: RE: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: GUEST,Suibhne Astray
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 03:54 PM

Seeing I'm being misquoted in Stuart's puerile witch-hunt, allow me to quote something else I said over on the Dementia thread:

Getting back to specific recordings; if in my nostalgic dotage I want to bask in The Revealing Science of God or Jawbone and the Air Rifle or Dead Souls or Prince Rupert Awakes or For Richard or Wurdah Itah I'd rather have the original recording than some well-meaning volunteer with a guitar giving it their best shot. Same goes for Ivor Cutler and Jim Eldon songs, or Folk Songs as a whole - just upload my field recorded archives onto an iPod and press repeat play & I'll be as happy as Larry. Actually, I might as well start doing this now so I may politely decline the offer of having what remains of my precious brain cells 30 years hence beaten into submission by American fecking Pie. There are, it seems, some things a good deal worse than death, or the firely torments of Hell - at least there you be guaranteed to get some good music...

And that was in response to Stuart's rather threatening statement: When your time comes, even if you don't develop dementia, trust me: you'll be singing along to American Pie and The Monkees and loving it. Though to be fair I'd include a fair few Monkeys originals on my Nursing Home iPod - or just play me the TV shows & Head.

Subject: RE: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 04:11 PM

That's just another form of the Great-You-Shut-Up, Will. "Don't make any music in the nursing home because one of the patients might not like it."

It's not intended to be, Leeneia - and no slur on those that give their time and effort to entertaining - just a personal take on Suibhne's comments from my own perspective.

Subject: RE: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: Joe Offer
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 04:19 PM

Of course, all of this would have made a lot more sense if kept within the context of the original thread....

Subject: RE: Singing live is 'bogus & reductive'
From: Will Fly
Date: 02 Feb 12 - 04:20 PM

Exactly, Joe.

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I think I'm going to close this thread because it distracts from the original discussion. Please continue in the original thread.
-Joe Offer-