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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: GUEST,henryp Date: 13 Apr 15 - 11:09 AM Liverpool Packet No.1 - A Picture History of Liverpool & Merseyside Liverpool Street Songs & Broadside Ballads Seth Davey of Bevington Bush He sat on the corner of Bevington Bush Astride an old packing-case; And the dolls on the end of the plank went dancing As he crooned with a smile on his face; CHORUS: Come dey, go dey, Wishin' me 'eart it wuz Sunday! Drinkin' buttermilk all de week Whisky on a Sunday. He sat on the corner of Bevington Bush Amid the old wooden beams And the puppets were dancing "the gear". A better show than ever you'd seen In the Pivvy or on New Brighton Pier. But in nineteen-hundred and two Seth snuffed it, His song was heard no more; The darkie-dolls in a jowler-bin ended, And the plank went to mend the back door. But on some stormy nights down Scottie Road way With the wind blowing up from the sea, You can still hear the song of Old Seth Davy As he croons to his darkie-dolls three; Fritz Spiegl writes: I had heard about this song, and took it down when Glyn Hughes recorded it for me on tape, in about 1959, with the words given above (which, incidentally, have since been annexed by commercial entertainers together with an approximation to Glynn's tune, entertainers who have never been near Liverpool, and whose copyright claims to it should be ignored!) * Even now there is a mystery - the second verse is indeed printed with five lines rather than four! It isn't obvious how these lines could be sung to the well-known tune. Ten years later, in 1969, Fritz Spiegl discovered an old lantern slide showing an old man sitting on the corner of Bevington Bush and making some wooden dolls dance on a plank. henryp |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: banjoman Date: 24 Oct 14 - 10:22 AM Noreen - thanks but I thought that Arden House was a lot nearer the city than you describe. The pub was definitely there just before I left Liverpool in 1980 because I went for a farewell drink there, although that pub was I think called simply The Bush. Anyway, its good to revive memories of that great city. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: GUEST,henryp Date: 24 Oct 14 - 06:57 AM There is so little information about Seth Davy that I assume Glyn Hughes had seen the old slide and based his song on it. The slide shows Seth Davy sitting at the junction of the street called Bevington Bush with Scotland Road. In the background is a large building bearing the legend Bevington House Hotel. The 1891 Ordnance Survey shows that there was also a public house standing on the corner. It isn't named, but perhaps it was the pub called The Bush. The buildings fronting Scotland Road have been demolished. Bevington Bush |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: Brakn Date: 24 Oct 14 - 03:11 AM And still "No-one of the precise name of Seth Davy is recorded in public records."(Wikipedia) You would've thought that he may appear in a census or that his death would've been recorded. I can't find anything. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: Noreen Date: 23 Oct 14 - 03:42 PM For banjoman- Bevington Bush, a vestigial end of a street, is still there off the top of Scotland Road. However the pub / Hotel became Arden House, a mission to seamen/Salvation Army hostel in its latter days and was demolished in 1986 (I remember it and have seen pictures of it on the internet somewhere, just before demolition). Lovely article about the area and its history here, from 2010: liverpools-ghost-streets-bevington-bush I'm sure I've posted that link before, in an earlier thread on the topic! |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: GUEST,Raggytash Date: 23 Oct 14 - 03:30 PM Ta Henry, I've been singing this song for a lot longer than 12 years, but I always try wherever possible to sing the words as written by the composer not necessarily the one's I have picked up along the way. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: GUEST,henryp Date: 23 Oct 14 - 09:13 AM From: Raggytash Date: 08 Feb 02 - 03:03 PM I would like to find who wrote the Ballad of Seth Davy and definitive words if possibly I haven't got my folder of Fritz Spiegl's Liverpool Packet to hand, but here are the words from The Spinners programme of 1972. A little late, I know. Seth Davey by Glyn Hughes He sat on the corner of Bevington Bush 'stride an old packing case and the dolls on the end of the plank went dancing as he crooned with a smile on his face CHORUS: (Hum) Come day go day wish in me heart for Sunday (Hum) drinking Buttermilk all the week whiskey on a Sunday His tired old hands drummed the wooden beam And the puppets danced d'gear. A better show than you ever will see At the Pivvy or New Brighton Pier. But in nineteen-o-two old Seth Davy died And his song it was heard no more. The three dancing dolls in a jowler bin ended And the plank went to mend a back door. But on some stormy nights down Scotty Road way With the wind blowing up from the sea, You can still hear the song of old Seth Davy As he croons to his dancing dolls three. Pivvy - Pavilion Theatre :formerly a well-loved music hall, - now (alas !) a Bingo Palace. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: GUEST,henryp Date: 23 Oct 14 - 08:39 AM From a 1972 programme of The Spinners; The three dancing dolls in a jowler bin ended jowler - entry, back passageway. And the puppets danced d'gear d'gear - great! smashing! A Liverpudlian expression of approval. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: banjoman Date: 23 Oct 14 - 05:50 AM I did contribute to previous threads on this topic. My Grandmother who died in 1953 once told me that her father once took her to see a man with dancing dolls somewhere near the top of Scotland Road which fits nicely with Bevington Bush. The pub ( I think) is still there. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: GUEST,Raggytash Date: 22 Oct 14 - 03:10 PM Astonishing!! |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: GUEST,henryp Date: 22 Oct 14 - 02:03 PM Wikipedia says; Davy sang 'Massa is a stingy man', from the repertoire of Dan Emmett, one of the stars of American minstrelsy, which contains the lines: "Sing come day, go day God send Sunday We'll drink whiskey all de week And buttermilk on Sunday" This has been turned around to make the new chorus: "Come day, go day I wish in my heart it was Sunday Drinkin' buttermilk through the week And whiskey on a Sunday" |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: GUEST,Raggytash Date: 22 Oct 14 - 06:40 AM 4. Surely the Pavilion theatre referred to is the Pavilion Theatre ON New Brighton Pier, now known as the Floral Pavilion Theatre. The Pavilion Theatre on Lodge Lane, Liverpool was not built until 1908, years after Seth Davey died(see Arthur Lloyd referred to above) |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: GUEST Date: 21 Oct 14 - 05:52 PM "The Ballad of Seth Davy" by Glyn Hughes (ca.1959) of Liverpool, England [1932-1972]. http://myweb.tiscali.co.uk/gerry.jones/lpllyrics1.html#sethdavy ==== Pictures of Scotland (Scotty) Road, Liverpool - mentioned in some versions of the song - have just come to light: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-29518319 ==== It is otherwise known as "Whiskey on a Sunday." [http://www.wtv-zone.com/phyrst/audio/nfld/04/whiskey.htm] Seth Davy is mentioned by Ray Costello in Black Liverpool: The Early History of Britain's Oldest Black Community 1730-1918 [http://www.amazon.co.uk/Black-Liverpool-Britains-Community-1730-1918/dp/1873245076] as "another black street entertainer...a West African often seen in the Scotland Road area of the city accompanying his cheerful songs with a dancing puppet show." Glyn Hughes recorded the song for one Fritz Spiegl about 1959, and amazingly, some years later, Fritz Spiegl discovered some old lantern slides of Liverpool scenes one of which featured a group of children watching a black man in a bowler hat making some wooden dolls dance on a plank. The scene can definitely be identified as being near outside the Bevington House Hotel in Liverpool. All this information comes from the late Fritz Spiegl's Liverpool Street Songs and Broadside Ballads published by the Scouse Press. [http://www.amazon.co.uk/Liverpool-Packet-Street-Ballads-Broadsides/dp/0901367117] There are some threads about 'Seth Davy' on Mudcat: 1 / 2 / 3 / 4, and here FSC Notes http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=58094 http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=8911 http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=91115 http://www.mudcat.org/thread.cfm?threadid=14342 http://homepage.mac.com/bothways/Sites/fsc/whiskynotes.htm 1. He sat on the corner of Bevington Bush[1], Astride an old packing case, And the dolls on the end of the plank went dancing, As he crooned with a smile on his face. CHORUS: "Come day, go day. Wish in me heart it was Sunday. Drinking buttermilk[2] all the week; whisky on a Sunday." 2. His tired old hands drummed the wooden beam, And the puppet dolls they danced t'gear[3]. A far better show then you ever would see, At the Pivvy[4] or New Brighton Pier. CHORUS: Come day go day........ 3. But in nineteen-o-two old Seth Davy died, And his song it was heard no more. The three dancing dolls in a jowler bin[5] ended, And the plank went to mend a back-door. CHORUS:"Come day, go day........ 4. But on some stormy nights, down Scotty Road[6] way, When the wind blows up from the sea, You can still hear the song of old Seth Davy, As he croons to his dancing dolls three. CHORUS: "Come day, go day........ [1] Bevington Bush = an area of Liverpool, a formerly thickly wooded area between Bevington Hill and Everton Hill which at one time had a pub called "The Bush" outside which Seth Davy busked. [2] buttermilk = the tart liquid left behind after churning butter out of cream. [3] t'gear = the gear, a Liverpudlian expression for fashionable clothing; Seth Davy's dolls were fully clothed [4] the Pivvy = the Pavilion Theatre on Lodge Lane in Liverpool [thanks to Gwil Jones, Liverpool for this] (See: The Pivvy [http://www.arthurlloyd.co.uk/Liverpool/PavilionTheatreLiverpool.htm) [5] jowler bin = simply a refuse bin, normally located in the alley at the back of the house. [6] Scotty Road way = refers to Scotland Road in Liverpool. ==== CJB |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: GUEST,Mike Date: 17 Mar 13 - 06:50 PM If you search Seth Davy on google, then go to Wikipedia, you'll see a pic of Seth Davy in Bevington Bush, Liverpool, with a group of kids around him. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: GUEST Date: 22 Dec 12 - 11:09 AM My Granddad told me he was from Jamaica, an ex-slave who came off a ship...Although not the only "Black" in Liverpool, his ability to entertain the children made him well known & popular...Granddad would have been one of them...he passed away in the 1970s aged 84 |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: GUEST,Philippa Date: 22 Dec 12 - 11:03 AM there's a photo and some info re Seth Davy at http://aliverpoolfolksongaweek.blogspot.co.uk/2011/08/21-seth-davy.html I wonder how could we find out whether he was West African or Caribbean, two possiblities mentioned in the Liverpool song blog |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: Musket Date: 20 Dec 12 - 05:04 AM I can't recall who I first heard singing this, but enjoyed it enough to learn it and have been singing it on and off for thirty odd years. The words I used I think I took from Max Boyce's version, recorded on his "The Road and the Miles" album. In that one, he dies in 1905, not 1902. Whether this alludes to the person or, as I suspect, five rhymes better with died, I don't really know. I also bought a dancing plank doll at a festival and my children played with it for years. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: GUEST,Mike Alcock Date: 20 Dec 12 - 04:13 AM 20 years ago I asked my great Aunt Cissie, who was born about 1890 and spent her whole 104 years in the Liverpool 8 area, if she remembered such a street entertainer. Quote - "He was a "nigger" you know(she called a spade a spade so to speak!), I think he was an ex slave (a good imagination I think!)we were a bit scared of him, poor man" |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: banjoman Date: 04 Nov 11 - 07:46 AM There have been lots of threads about this song and I think I contributed to most of them. Anyway, my maternal Grandmother used to tell how her mother would take her and her brothers & sisters to see a "Black" man with dancing dolls at Bevington Bush in liverpool. The date of 1904 would fit this. There is(or was ) a Pub called the Bevington Bush at the junction with Scotland Road - is it still there? |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: GUEST,Tunesmith Date: 03 Nov 11 - 05:22 PM This is a bit of a novelty! Here's Uncle Rolf Harris singing the song complete with puppets. Youtube link |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: Noreen Date: 03 Nov 11 - 04:03 PM SCOTLAND ROAD "The Old Neighbourhood" by Terry Cook on Amazon Do look at the other threads about this, detailed above (top of page). |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: GUEST,R. Frost Date: 03 Nov 11 - 01:53 PM Seth Davey was indeed a real person. He used to enterain children on the corner of Bevington (Not Bebington)Bush and Scotland Road in Liverpool. Seth was a negro and sang songs and tell tale of when he was a slave. I recommend SCOTLAND ROAD "The Old Neighbourhood" by Terry Cook. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: Noreen Date: 19 Apr 09 - 06:06 PM Probably Jamaican, greg. Several threads here make finding info confusing, best seems to be on the following- Lyr Req: Whiskey on a Sunday |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: greg stephens Date: 19 Apr 09 - 05:50 PM Was Seth Davey black, then? Or did he perform blacked-up? |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: GUEST,Russell Wood Date: 19 Apr 09 - 02:53 PM I learned this song from the Spinners in the 60's, but I asked my Gran (who was born in the late 19th century) if she knew anything about Seth Davey. She said that she vaguely remembered the "dancing nigger-man" (pardon the archaism) with a puppet or something. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: alison Date: 01 Jun 00 - 09:15 PM Here you go all of the above were found by putting the word "seth" into the"digitrad and forum search box).... welcome to Mudcat.... slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: alison Date: 01 Jun 00 - 09:11 PM we had a big thread on this before.. I'll try to find it.... it had info on Seth Davey... slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 01 Jun 00 - 09:02 PM Sorry Guest, Ade. Yes Seth Davey was a real person and "the plank went to mend a back door" as per the version I learned.. Sung by a group called the "Spinners" in the sixties...Shouled have taken more time to post but was called in to work in a hurry... Yours, Aye. Dave (not an ancient scouser but close expat, Rochdale, Lancs.) |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davey From: Dave (the ancient mariner) Date: 01 Jun 00 - 07:09 PM Bevvington Bush... You can fing the song as "Whiskey On a Sunday" in the DT search engine... The Dolls were thrown in a "Jowlah bin" (Liverpool name for a garbage bin)The words I learned were that he died in 1905 but some say it was 1906 or later... Hope this is usefull to you.. Yours, Aye. Dave |
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Subject: Seth Davey From: GUEST,Ade Date: 01 Jun 00 - 05:43 PM Any Scousers out there who might know who is Seth Davey in the song of the same name. Did he really exist?? Also, where did he sit on the corner of. I have heard Bebbington Bush - is this correct?? I would like to give some background info. next time I inflict it on my local folk club in Deal. Ta. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: Quirk Malarkey Date: 20 Oct 99 - 05:24 PM bobbys' girl, i'm looking at mine now. got him in norfolk, virginia. learned how to do the dancing and wave his arms about to bluegrass fiddle tunes. i was told he was called a "limberjack" still make'im clog from time to time. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: Paul Date: 20 Oct 99 - 04:44 PM It's really Bebington Bush, not Bevington. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: roopoo Date: 14 Oct 99 - 01:37 AM I've got a dancing doll. The basic principle is simple, but it requires the right touch to get it going properly. I haven't got it, one of his arms keeps wheeling about in a one-sided backstroke, so he hangs on the wall. I saw someone, Rene Pickles, I think, who had some beauties and could make them dance well. She also had a Canadian doll. cheers mouldy |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: bobby's girl Date: 13 Oct 99 - 07:18 PM A jowler bin was a rubbish bin, tho I don't know the derivation of the word. I used to sing this song but I could never understand how the dolls worked until I saw someone with a set of them once. The dolls were wooden with loose joints at the hips and knees, and a wooden rod attached to the back of the body, which the operator held. He sat with a piece of wood about 2-3 inches wide, and about 18 inches long, tucked under his thigh. The doll was held so that its feet just rested on the far end of the plank, and he tapped the plank just behind the doll, making the plank bounce up and down slightly, so that the doll's feet bouced up and down in time, creating the illusion that the doll was dancing. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: roopoo Date: 13 Oct 99 - 01:41 PM Going back to the sixties and "pop" jargon from the Mersey Beat era, anything that was "gear" was good. Yes, I am old enough to remember those days! My daughter has just gone to uni in liverpool, but I doubt I'll be able to get a fan of Metallica and Skunk Anansie to do any folk song research! mouldy |
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Subject: Lyr Add: WHISKEY ON A SUNDAY (Glyn Hughes) From: Ian HP Date: 13 Oct 99 - 01:09 PM Here's a different version of the words and a question or two: i. In these words, what does "danced the gear" mean? ii. What is a "jowler bin"? WHISKEY ON A SUNDAY (Glyn Hughes) 1. He sat on the corner of Bevington Bush Astride of an old packing case And his three dolls would dance on the end of the plank And he'd croon with a smile on his face * Come day, go day I wish in me heart it was Sunday Drinking buttermilk all the week Whiskey on a Sunday 2. His tired old hands tugged away at the strings And the dolls, they danced the gear It's a far better show than any I've seen At the Pivvy or New Brighton Pier * 3. In nineteen-o-two old Seth Davy died And his song is heard no more His three dancing dolls in a jowler bin ended And his plank went to mend some back door * 4. On some stormy nights down Scotty Road way When the wind's blowin' up from the sea You can still hear the song of old Seth Davy As he croons to his dancing dolls three * * Cheers Ian HP
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: DonMeixner Date: 12 Oct 99 - 10:16 PM Saddly Jon, the truth is I can't dance. I was born with a bone in my leg and the Doctor's say that I should never try. Waltzes and two steps are only things that I play. Never to actually dance my self. Its kinda like the difference between reading a book about sex and actually doing it. Thanks for the song. Don |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: Jon Freeman Date: 12 Oct 99 - 01:24 AM I am an angry folk singer who's had an awful thought - Don singing a song in 2 step time - not a waltz as he ought. I'll tell this to some friends of mine - Kelly, Davies and Fiztroy We'll work out how to stop him doing the Wild Colonial Boy. ;-) Jon
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: roopoo Date: 11 Oct 99 - 11:20 AM Alan: it's in 3/4 and G major. Mouldy |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: Alan of Australia Date: 11 Oct 99 - 06:51 AM AKS, Email me: alan.foster@tpg.com.au
Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: AKS Date: 11 Oct 99 - 05:57 AM It never occurred to me that this one could be done in 4/4 but obviously it can, have to get my ears on that Irish Rovers recording somehow! I have the Dubliners' version (recorded 1966) and Danny Doyle's version (rec?; on a collection of Irish (!!?) folk songs) which both are in 3/4. I also remember hearing it in some Dublin pub a couple of years ago played by a local band also in 3/4. I assume that both music and lyrics are by Glyn Hughes, at least on the records that's what is printed to be the author - or is the music perhaps trad? greetings from Joensuu, Finland Arto K Sallinen |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: Alan of Australia Date: 11 Oct 99 - 01:50 AM Hey Mouldy, how many dots to the bar???? |
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Subject: Lyr Add: SETH DAVY From: roopoo Date: 11 Oct 99 - 01:36 AM I have the dots and words to a song called SETH DAVY which is in a book by Jon Raven, "Songs of a Changing World" published for use in schools. It says in the preamble that not much is known about the man, but that he had enough impact on Liverpool for him and his way of life to be the subject of a popular song seventy years after his death (dates the book) and that in this song he is used as a symbol of all those things in life which have disappeared because society no longer has a use for them. He sat on the corner of Bevington Bush 'Stride an old packing case And the dolls on the end of the plank went dancing As he crooned with a smile on his face. CHORUS: Come day go day wish in my heart for Sunday Drinking buttermilk all the week Whiskey on a Sunday. His tired old hands drummed the wooden beam And the puppets they danced d'gear A better show than you ever will see At the Pivvy or New Brighton Pier. CHORUS But in nineteen-o-two old Seth Davy died And his song it was heard no more. The three dancing dolls in a jowler bin ended And the plank went to mend a back door. CHORUS But on some stormy nights down Scotty Road way With the wind blowing up from the sea, You can still hear the song of old Seth Davy As he croons to his dancing dolls three. CHORUS I'm also sure that it has been song by many artists, including the Spinners, who of course came from Liverpool. Cheers mouldy |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: DonMeixner Date: 10 Oct 99 - 11:55 PM Alan, Now that I've had time to reflect on this puzzle. I learned the words from a rovers song book ages ago. But the music I got from a Jessie Owens Irish Dance party recording. The only music I have for it. We play The WildColonial Boy as a waltz or a two step depending on the whim of our front man. I think it should always be done as an uptempo two step. Opinions on this topic seem to vary. The same with Whiskey on a Sunday. Don |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: Alan of Australia Date: 10 Oct 99 - 10:39 PM G'day, The Irish Rovers had a hit with this many years ago here, I'm listening to it now. 4/4 time. Never heard any other recording, never heard it in 3/4 time, hard to imagine. Also, the lines in this version go:
And sad to relate that old Seth Davy died
Cheers, |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: alison Date: 10 Oct 99 - 10:16 PM Haha... I love it.. "my earth address".. makes me sound like an alien.... its on it's way don. slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: DonMeixner Date: 10 Oct 99 - 09:35 PM Alison, I always do it as a waltz. Thats how the Rovers did it and thats my source for the song. I have the lyric: In 1902 poor Sed (Seth?)Davy died, his songs they were heard never more" I can't imagine it any other way than a waltz. Don BTW Alison, I need you earth address please, Send it to DonMeixner@aol.com I lost it and I have a jewelry catalog for you. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: Jon Freeman Date: 10 Oct 99 - 09:32 PM I don't know which is the most common but the only version I know is in 3/4 time. Jon |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: alison Date: 10 Oct 99 - 09:24 PM slight aside.... what time sig have you heard "whiskey on a sunday". I remember it as a waltz (3/4)... but someone played it at our club the other night as 4/4.. they had never heard it done any other way. Which version is most common? slainte alison |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: wildlone Date: 10 Oct 99 - 04:52 PM Thanks Bill, Mother recollects people talking about him when she was small.She thinks he used to sing with his dolls outside the Liverpool Empire theatre. Ihope this may help you Ian.WL. |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: bill\sables Date: 10 Oct 99 - 04:31 PM Wildone, I believe He died in 1915 Cheers Bill |
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Subject: RE: Seth Davy info please From: wildlone Date: 10 Oct 99 - 04:22 PM My Mother says that Seth Davey was a Liverpool street entertainer but she does not know when he died. She comes from Chester,not far from Liverpool. |
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Subject: Seth Davy info please From: Ian HP Date: 10 Oct 99 - 10:19 AM Was the Seth Davy mentioned in the song Whiskey on a Sunday a real person? If so, does anybody have info on Seth Davy? |
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