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Subject: Lyr Add: IN THE PINES (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: Peter Timmerman Date: 02 May 97 - 03:35 PM Following up the invitation (in a recent thread) to post lyrics, I noticed that the version of "In The Pines" in the database is different than the terrifying one Joan Baez used to sing -- I think it comes from Leadbelly originally. Does anyone know where this song comes from, and are there other verses than those below? IN THE PINES
Black girl, black girl, don't lie to me:
My father was a railroad man
You caused me to weep; you caused me to moan
The longest train I ever saw
Black girl, black girl, don't lie to me, |
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Subject: RE: In the Pines From: Barry Finn Date: 02 May 97 - 08:56 PM Black Girl, In The Pines, Longest Train has been commonly traced to black convict coal miners. Sharpe collected a version in Kentucky and it is found around the southern mountains. As long as the convicts kept up with their work load traditionaly they'd be allowed to receive women, and be left alone. "Black girl, black girl what have I done, to have you turn your back on me, Ive robbed no bank I've killed no man I've done no hanging crime". The practice of leasing out convict for coal mining, and other forms of hard labor started right after the Civil War ended and continued in the mines until 1928, the practice didn't finally end until the mid 1960's, and for that matter it may have started up again. |
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Subject: RE: In the Pines From: Date: 05 May 97 - 09:36 AM Dear Barry, Many thanks. I had no idea that was where the song came from. Wasn't there a miner's strike over bringing in black convicts as scabs sometime in the late 1800's? I vaguely remember a song attached to the event. Yours, Peter |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: Mr Happy Date: 02 Feb 10 - 09:24 AM http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uRtd9TFfScU |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: autoharpbob Date: 02 Feb 10 - 10:01 AM Great version by Leadbelly, but the consensus seems to be the song predates him - like most around that time (Carter Family!) they were singing songs they already knew and claiming them for their own. Heard Sarah McQuaid do a haunting version of this recently. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: GUEST,TJ in San Diego Date: 02 Feb 10 - 11:18 AM I remember being asked to do this song back in the late 1950's as a semi-unaware college kid and realizing how unsuited I was for it - being both white and male, for starters. I really loved the feel of it and the haunting melody - still do. I'd have loved to hear Odetta do this one. I was never able to hear Leadbelly's version. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: bobad Date: 02 Feb 10 - 11:27 AM Leadbelly also sang it as "My girl, my girl......." |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: GUEST,Doc John Date: 02 Feb 10 - 12:06 PM Yes, bobad, he used to sing it that way sometimes and I heard he was none to keen to do so. White singers such as Cisco Houston used to sing 'My Girl' although Lonnie Donegan recorded it is 'Black Girl' again. Both superb versions. It's sometimes listed as both of these titles as well as 'Where Did You sleep Last Night?' Interesting information, Barry, which I didn't know. The song always sounds like it's part of a longer one as is 'Who's Gonna Shoe Your Pretty Little Feet' Mike Seeger recorded a song about convicts putting the unions workers out of a job, but I can't recall it now. Rather like the situation in 'Matewan', essential watching for folkies! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 02 Feb 10 - 02:56 PM The haunting Dock Walsh 1926 version posted in thread 38433. Also Howell's. In the Pines |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: GUEST,Tunesmith Date: 02 Feb 10 - 03:37 PM This "pop" version was a big hit in the UK in the 60s. Was it a hit in the States? Black Girl -The Four Pennies |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: GUEST,Tunesmith Date: 02 Feb 10 - 03:43 PM Here's the Nirvana version. Kurt maybe a rock legend but he should have kept away from this song! Nivarna - Where did you sleep last night |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: Goose Gander Date: 03 Feb 10 - 03:57 PM More of a cluster of songs and floating verses than a song. Common to black and white singers in the American South in the early twentieth century. I would be very surprised if anyone could find an 'original' of this one. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 03 Feb 10 - 05:48 PM Yes, a cluster. Some of the songs are easily identified- "Black Girl," "The Longest Train," and "In the Pines." Brown, Folklore of North Carolina, vol. 3, Folk Songs from North Carolina,, H. M. Belden and A. P. Hudson, is the first record (coll. 1921). "Black Girl" was collected by Sharpe-Karpeles. I don't know who first brought this song into the cluster (or when). It is not present in the 1921-1922 version in North Carolina Folklore. Instead, "Little darling ....," and "The prettiest girl ...." appear. A couple of the verses suggest parlor songs- "Oh, don't you see that little dove ....," "Now don't you hear those mourning doves ...." Several verses of the 1921-1922 song (Miss Pearl Webb) have one or two lines from still other songs, e. g., "Look down, look down this lonesome road," "His head was found on the driver's wheel," "Pretty Little Foot". First verse of the 1921-1922 version in Brown: Little darling, little darling, don't tell me no lie. Where did you stay last night? "I stayed in the pines, where the sun never shines, I shivered when the cold wind blow[ed]." Chorus- To the pines, to the pines, where the sun never shines. Oh, I shivered when the cold wind blowed. The tune (in Vol. 5) is the one I have commonly heard. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 03 Feb 10 - 06:00 PM "Black Girl" seems to be the earliest version collected; 1917 by Sharp; only one verse: Black Girl, black girl, don't lie to me Where did you stay last night? "I stayed in the pines where the sun never shines, And shivered when the cold wind blows." According to Wikipedia, the "longest train" verses were added and recorded in 1925. In a 1970 thesis, some 160 permutations of the song appear. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: GUEST,Nikkiwi Date: 04 Feb 10 - 04:07 PM Here's the Nirvana version. Kurt maybe a rock legend but he should have kept away from this song! I dunno about that....it was his version that introduced the song to me (and through me to my 2-1/2 yo daughters who haven't yet quite mastered the "p" sound...lol material when they sing it) |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: GUEST,Tunesmith Date: 04 Feb 10 - 04:28 PM I can think of a number of my mates who could a better job of the song than Kirk! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: GUEST,Nikkiwi Date: 04 Feb 10 - 04:54 PM Tunesmith, so could I - but Cobain exposed the song to many people who might never have otherwise heard it, at least one of whom liked it enough to want to find out more about it and learn it and sing it. And most of the information I found on the song while researching (some of it quite in depth), came from websites created by others inspired by his performing the song (if not his performance of it) So at least some good (imho) came out of his rendition. YMMV Cheers |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: GUEST,Tunesmith Date: 05 Feb 10 - 07:27 AM Good point! I can't see what anyone sees in Lonnie Donegan, but he did introduce a lot of people to the works of Leadbelly and Woody Guthrie. BTW, I do have a lot of time for some of Kurt's rock material. |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: Mr Happy Date: 05 Feb 10 - 07:40 AM Another example of a 'floating verse' song. Reubens Train's also one which would fit the cluster [as above] |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: Sarah McQuaid Date: 05 Feb 10 - 10:05 AM Thanks autoharpBob for the kind comment about my singing! I actually did quite a bit of research on this song for the (24-page!) booklet of the CD I recorded it on. Here's the text from my booklet notes: Also known as 'Black Girl' and 'Where Did You Sleep Last Night', this song is often credited to Huddie Ledbetter, a.k.a. Lead Belly (1888-1949), but in fact it dates back to at least the 1870s, and is probably Southern Appalachian in origin. Cecil Sharp collected it from a Miss Lizzie Abner in Oneida, Kentucky, on 18 August, 1917, under the name 'Black Girl' and comprising just four lines: Black girl, black girl, don't lie to me Where did you stay last night? I stayed in the pines where the sun never shines And shivered when the cold wind blows In Long Steel Rail: The Railroad in American Folksong (2000), Norm and David Cohen write: Two years later, Newman I. White obtained four lines that a student of his had heard sung by a black railroad work gang in Buncombe County, North Carolina: The longest train I ever saw Was on the Seaboard Air Line, The engin pas' at a ha' pas' one, And the caboose went pas' at nine. In 1921-22, Frank C. Brown obtained a long text from Parl Webb of Pineola, Avery County, North Carolina, that included both the "in the pines" couplet and the "longest train" couplet ... during the years 1921-22, Brown did obtain recordings of "In The Pines" – the earliest ones to be made. I first heard 'In The Pines' being sung by Sissy Spacek in the 1980 Loretta Lynn biopic Coal Miner's Daughter. She only sings a couple of lines of it, but I couldn't get them out of my head. A year or two later, I bought a secondhand LP by Jack Tottle called Back Road Mandolin, and that's where I got my lyrics for 'In The Pines', including the substitution of "Little girl" for the more usual "Black girl". Driving home at the end of the day on which I recorded the song for this album, I switched on the car radio just in time to hear Nirvana's version being played. Spooky! And here are the song lyrics as I sing them: The longest train I ever saw Came down that Georgia line The engine passed at six o'clock And the cab passed by at nine Chorus: In the pines, in the pines Where the sun never shines And we shiver when the cold winds blow Ooh ... I asked the captain for the time of day He said he throwed his watch away It's a long steel rail and a short cross tie I'm on my way back home (Chorus) Little girl, little girl, where'd you stay last night Not even your mother knows Well I stayed in the pines where the sun never shines And we shiver when the cold winds blow (Chorus) For more info or to listen to my version of the song, see www.sarahmcquaid.com. Cheers! |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: bankley Date: 05 Feb 10 - 06:36 PM I heard Marty Stuart do a nice version with his band on 'coustic instruments and tight harmonies... |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 05 Feb 10 - 07:47 PM Reference for c. 1870 date? Anything in print before 1917? |
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Subject: RE: Lyr Add: In the Pines (Joan Baez/Leadbelly?) From: GUEST,Rachel Date: 28 Nov 10 - 01:37 AM i have heard many different versions of this song and loved most. i was sung this song as a child and it is very near and dear to my heart. but onei cant figure out. in the movie coal miners daughter sissy is standing on the porch singing in the pines. but she sings it as "the longest train i ever saw was on that georgia line. the prettiest boy i ever saw was.." and thats all i can get. does anyone know the reset of how she sung it? |
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