Birmingham Traditional Music Club

Subject: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,George Frampton
Date: 11 May 12 - 05:31 AM

I've been going through some old cassettes i made in the 1970s of some folk clubs in Birmingham. I went to the Birmingham Traditional Music Club between 1974 and 1976, just as the English Country Music movement was beginning, so proved a rich melting pot for my interests.

I'm trying to locate the members of 'Brummagem' who were Bob and Chris Lapworth, and a guy called Les. Does anyone know his surname?

There was also a woman I had never previously met who sang 'Cock Robin' which I recorded, and I have no name for her. Any offers?

I was a regular at The Old Crown, Trad, and Black Pig clubs (as well as the University club) at the time. I've only ever been back twice to the clubs since leaving. Happy days!

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 11 May 12 - 05:46 AM

George ... try Chris Coe and Roy Palmer. They may know.
Derek

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,George Frampton
Date: 11 May 12 - 05:57 AM

Thanks Derek. Will do if I don't get any response. Pete and Chris were touring at that time so seldom got to the Old Crown when I was there - it was mainly run by Mick Bramwich, Phil Cross, Dave Bruton, Mike Frost, and John and Sue Percy among others, some of whom I'm still in contact with. I'm trying Dave Hunt at the momemt, as he was occasionally there.
I really don't recall meeting/seeing Roy at clubs during my time there - that doesn't mean to say he wasn't there, of course - such is my memory for faces!

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: The Sandman
Date: 11 May 12 - 07:24 AM

dave james should be a good bet.try googling it you will get his e mail and phone number, i gigged a couple of times dave james did the bookings there

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 11 May 12 - 12:52 PM

George .. Topic did an LP called The Wide Midlands, which featured, among others, Pete and Chris (when she was still "Richards"), The Singing Tradition (whose members included Bob Lapworth) and Les ivall (that might be your missing Les...). And Roy Palmer. Also, try Pam Bishop (who is on the LP and who is still actively involved in the area - she edits a magazine ....Folk Monthly? She's involved in storytelling now....)
Derek

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: Noreen
Date: 11 May 12 - 04:34 PM

The Wide Midlands



George, The Black Diamond Folk Club which used to to be at the Old Crown in Digbeth, is still going very strong, and Phil Cross who you mention is one of the residents.

I'll let him know about this thread if you like.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,George Frampton
Date: 14 May 12 - 06:34 AM

Thanks for all this, I've check out both Birmingham Trad and Black Diamond threads. Interesting! I note that both Derek Catley and Phil Cross are currently residents, and there is a CD available. Please pass on my compliments!

I have both these people on my tapes. Any news on Mick Bramwich and Sean Myles? I met Mick in Sidmouth in the 1980's and recall he told me he now lived in Devon. I've met some of the other regulars through my Morris dance connections.

Thanks all to 'Catters who have put up Bob Cooney threads. I wish now I had seen him more.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 14 May 12 - 12:32 PM

Les Noden was the other member of Brummagem. He was a postman inBrum, but he became a fisherman in Brixham.

I saw Les and his lovely wife Chris in a bar in Brixham. he was in a duo with another guy, and he was hopeful of Barrie Roberts and Bill Caddick publishing the song, Mermaids in Songsmith magazine. maybe Bill caddick had Les's address.

I seem to remember the Lapworths lived on a narrowboat. They were a weird little trio. the showstopper was a Gary Glitter song called I love you love, d'you love me true love? And they were sometimes totally unaccompanied - sometimes they had guitars and bowed psalteries.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: Brian Peters
Date: 14 May 12 - 02:50 PM

I saw Mick Bramich in Totnes just last Friday. Author of a very successful anglo concertina tutor. He has a web page here, with his contact details: Mick Bramich

The Black Diamond, one of the very best folk clubs in the world!

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,George Frampton
Date: 15 May 12 - 11:07 AM

Les Noden! Thanks Al.

Mick Bramwich (like many of us) was only just learning melodeon and concertina when I left Birmingham in 1976. I have a recording from BBC Birmingham's 'Gentlefolk' of him playing melodeon accompanied by Sean Myles on concertina. Mick is/was an excellent guitarist, and I know he was giving classes at Sidmouth (with books as well) one year. Thanks for that info.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 15 May 12 - 03:23 PM

As i remember I contacted les, by the simple means of looking up les Noden in the Brixham phonebook. That's how I come to see him doing the gig.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: Jood York
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 04:38 AM

Hi George

I think the woman who sang Cock Robin may well have been me. I have an album made by a couple from the black country which they made as they were emigrating, I don't recall their names but I think they had something to do with local radio and this had myself and many of the other regulars at the time. I'll look it out and see if there's a list of names. I do recall Dave James, Bob and Sue and there was I think another lady called Shirley.

Such a long time ago. Great memories.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 05:33 AM

There was a beautiful lady with a remarkable voice who sang The New Deserter - I remember Mike Blair (veteran of many folk outfits) saying he thought she looked like a ballerina.

My chief memory was that she sang Ratclif Highway as Radcliffe Highway, which sort of fitted her - it made it sound more like a Victorian novel, written by a lady in long dress - less like a rat infested stew!

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 02 Jun 12 - 08:46 PM

refresh

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: Jood York
Date: 07 Jun 12 - 07:36 AM

Found the album but no list of names. Will dig out the record player and have a listen for clues.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,George Frampton
Date: 07 Jun 12 - 09:15 AM

Hello Jood. I can't remember your name, but hello anyway!
I've dug up some of the (vinyl) recordings the Lapworths have made. It has been fascinating revisiting old haunts, albeit cybernetically.

I remember a 'featured' evening with the late Mel Dean who later ended in the Old Swan Band. They insisted on calling him the 'Fabulous Beryl' - obviously an in-joke that went way over the top of my head.
Happy days!

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: Jood York
Date: 07 Jun 12 - 01:40 PM

I was Jood Evans then and we used to tip up from North Birmingham YHA Group. It was a great introduction to folk music and we were all encouraged to go forth and research songs and recitations. They were so welcoming. We were very lucky to see some fantastic people perform. I have forgotten many of the names but Ian Campbell and Ali were there occasionally, Nic Jones, Jon Strong. I recall one guest who was an elderly fellow and told stories and sang songs, pretty sure he was from the south coast and had worked on one of the last merchant sailing ships. He was amazing.

I've been trying to remember the names of the couple who emigrated and Mike and Angie seems to ring a bell. Perhaps the Lapworths or Dave James may also have a copy.

Was it Bob who repaired/built instruments? I even had trouble trying to remember the names of the various pubs for the venue. I can't remember the order but there were 2 off broad Street towards the canal and another, possibly the Summerhill Tavern? Ain't senility grand!

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,George Frampton
Date: 08 Jun 12 - 07:23 AM

I went to the club when it was at the Prince of Wales.
I went back to Brum for a weekend ca 1984. It was in a room somewhere behind Aston University and was warned by the Old Crown-ites (then at The Longboat) that it had 'been taken over by poets.' I went anyway, and found what they said to be true!

The 'elderly' fellow sounds like Bob Roberts, or Johnny Doughty. Not there in my day.

I still have the BTMD T-shirt somewhere (I don't think it was chucked in a putsch!)

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,Les Noden
Date: 17 Sep 12 - 08:57 AM

This is my first visit to this site. Such nostalgia!
If you would like to know more about what I'm up to, just Google "Les Noden", or go to a site called flaxey green and look at "solo performers" or "bands/groups" and look at "Devils Elbow"....."Piping Hot"...... "Buttoned Up" (Mick Bramich,myself,Kate Powell,Warwick Downes). We,(Buttoned Up),played Tavistock Town Hall on Saturday,15th.
I also play as a duo called Bollards with Nigel Sture, a well-known concertina/melodeon repairer/tuner.

Keep on singing,

Les

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Sep 12 - 09:02 AM

By the way Big Al, my lovely wife, (who is still lovely and thanks you for the compliment) is called Jacqui.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,Helen Pitt
Date: 17 Sep 12 - 11:54 AM

I used to go to 'The Traddie' and the Old crown in 1978-80. There was a duo that went to the traddie who I think sang Radcliffe Highway. The girl's name was Elaine - not sure of the guy's name. There was also a lady called Kay who was a regular that I've seen in recent times at Whitby festival (though not for a couple of years - but that's because of my absence, not hers).
Whoever is being charged with conveying messages to the Black Diamond crowd could they please pass on 'hello' from me to Phil & Derek as well. Too many years since I've been there.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Sep 12 - 05:24 PM

Hi Big Al,
The lady who sang about The Deserter was possibly Joan Mills who used to sing with Mike Raven who accompanied her. She would have resembled your descripton

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: Black Diamond Brum
Date: 19 Sep 12 - 05:48 PM

Hi Helen, Kay now lives in Whitby.
Regards Paul Ryan and the gang.
http://blackdiamondfolkclub.org.uk/

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,Helen Pitt
Date: 20 Sep 12 - 09:22 AM

Hi Paul

That would explain why I've seen her at the festival there! Give my love to everyone. One of these days I'll get back to see you all - I keep getting great reports of the club from people who've guested or visited.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,Birmingham
Date: 20 Sep 12 - 01:31 PM

I was just getting into Folk music in those days, remember the crown and B'ham trad but I'm hopeless with names. However I have a weekly E-newsletter of Folk and acoustic news, it goes to quite a few in Brum who may be able to help. If you send me your e.m address I'll put in an appeal for you, just send it to Desi at [e-mail] putting Newsletter in the Title
Cheers

Subject: Old Crown and Black Pig
From: Black Diamond Brum
Date: 05 Oct 12 - 02:33 PM

Hi George, As you know by now the Black Pig went the way of all bacon but the Old Crown under the guise of the Black Diamond is still going strong. We have an large photo archive going back several years and I was wondering if you had any photo's also I would love to hear any of the cassettes perhaps as mp3 tracks. They would be nice to have for our 50th bash. Regards Paul Ryan.

http://blackdiamondfolkclub.org.uk/

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,Bob Lapworth
Date: 22 Jul 13 - 06:47 PM

Hello George,

I've only just stumbled upon your postings about BTMC and, in particular, the group 'Brummagem'.

Les Noden was the third member of Brummagem and I see he has posted a reply, so you will be able to contact him - he now lives in Brixham. Chris and I saw Les and his wife Jacqui about two years ago when Les did a guest spot at the Black Diamond Folk Club in Birmingham.

Chris and I haven't lived in Brum for well over thirty years so we handed over the running of the BTMC to Dave James who ran it on a weekly basis until about a year ago when it finally closed. By the way, contrary to one of the replies, Chris and I have never lived on a narrow boat.

I well remember Judith Evans (as she was then) singing 'Cock Robin' and also 'Dancing at Whitsun'. What a fabulous voice.

As BTMC approached it's 25th birthday (1999) the idea evolved to produce a commemorative CD and I was asked to produce it. Efforts were made to contact as many as possible of the singers that sung there over the years, but with only moderate success. Regrettably, neither yourself nor Judith were contacted, despite efforts being made. However, several of the old Aston University crew were contacted and appeared on the resulting CD which, owing to delays, was actually released to celebrate the club's THIRTIETH birthday. You may be interested to know that several of the Aston University people from that time were contacted and appeared on the CD. From memory, these include Ged Wilson and John and Hilary Rawles (I can't remember Hilary's surname before she married John). I could send you a copy of this if you let me have your address.

The vinyl record that Judith refers to in her posting was probably the one recorded by Mike Shadforth (on a domestic tape recorder in his front room) that was put together as a 'Farewell' gift for Alan Wheatley when he left the area and was no longer able to come to the club. Mike lived in Kings Heath (Birmingham) at the time and he and his wife Angie were about to go to America because that's where Mike's job (as a hospital Doctor) took him. Later they moved back to England and settled near Stoke-on-Trent, where they still live, but they are now divorced. I don't have a copy of this record, but I do have a cassette tape copy of it so, if you have a copy, I might be able to help you identify the singers.

Finally, I think the lady mentioned in a couple of postings who sang Ratcliffe (or even 'Radcliffe') Highway was Linda Burns.

If you want to get in touch I have a Facebook page or you can email [e-mail]. If you send me your address (please don't post it on a public forum) I will send you a copy of the BTMC CD.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,Les Noden
Date: 27 Aug 13 - 10:51 AM

Good afternoon to all Mudcat readers and in particular to Bob and Chris Lapworth. Pity we did not get a chance to socialise for longer at the Black Diamond gig. Let's hope we can meet again sooner than later.    Can anyone help me with this one?.........A neighbour of ours is trying to obtain a "Cosmotheka", (Dave and Al Seeley) L.P. She was a big fan of theirs when she lived in the Midlands hundreds of years ago, (her statement, not mine!) I would be much obliged for any pointers.   Best wishes, Les and Jacqui Noden.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,Roger Baker
Date: 09 Oct 13 - 07:37 AM

I think you'll find that I'm one of the voices on the record. I had a copy myself but it warped quite badly over time. I'm singing the spoof broken token song. I remember Andy Casserley is on there playing a couple of tunes. Ged Wilson sings "Here's the Tender Coming." I'm still around in Birmingham but not singing much nowadays (some would say I never did!). My time is split evenly between Europe and Thailand, as I'm employed as the head of technical services for a large Thai chemical company. I still dance the Morris occasionally - I think there are only three of the Aston RAMS still actively dancing. I'm with Jockey, Alan Moran is with Green Man and Alan Chetwood has moved back to London where he dances with Greensleeves. Hilary's maiden name was Morris, but I was told by Alan Moran recently that she died of cancer last year.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,Faye O'Connell
Date: 21 Nov 13 - 10:04 PM

I'm looking for Noreen ratcliffe, is this her on this thread?

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 05:33 PM

Hi. Sorry to chip in. This thread seems to be moving ar a stately pace so maybe one of you will see this. I'm trying to track down some records my dad made. His name is Martyn Briggs. He sang on the wide midlands album mentioned earlier in this thread. I also just found an album called the painful plough with Roy Palmer that he sang on too with singing tradition. Id love to know if anyone remembers doing stuff with him. I know there was at least one more album that he's on. It's his 70th birthday in April. I'd love to try and track down any other stuff he has. He passed the folk gene on to me and I now gig regularly with a traditional band in Brighton called boondock. We sing a few Birmingham songs courtesy of him.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 26 Mar 14 - 06:56 PM

'I recall one guest who was an elderly fellow and told stories and sang songs, pretty sure he was from the south coast and had worked on one of the last merchant sailing ships. He was amazing.'

Eric Ilott -maybe....

he used t turn up with a kit bag full of ukuleles, banjo's. I caught his act at the folk club in the top room of the arts centre in Nuneaton.

I remember he asked the audience if anyone was familiar with the South China Seas. strangely enough- no one was.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,Bob Lapworth
Date: 22 Jun 14 - 07:23 PM

Sorry to have missed Martyn Briggs's 70th birthday. I really must log in to Mudcat Cafe more often. To the best of my knowledge the following is a comprehensive discography for Martyn Christopher Jocelyn Briggs:-

1969 - Hand Clappin', Foot Stompin', Funkie, but Folk - Dungeon DLP100/TET124. Just one track - 'Wedgebury Cocking' by Christine and Martyn Briggs and Geoff Leigh.

1971 - The Wide Midlands - Topic 12TS210. Three tracks as follows:-
'Jolly Joe the Colliers Son' and 'The Old Miner' sung by The Singing Tradition incl. Martyn. 'When Shall We Get Married John?' Sung by Julie West and Roy Palmer with accompaniment by Mick Nash and Martyn Briggs on guitar and banjo respectively.

1972 - The Painful Plough - Topic Impact IMP-A-103. Three tracks as follows:-
'The Painful Plough' and 'We Poor Labouring Men' sung by The Singing Tradition incl. Martyn Briggs. 'My Master and I' sung by Roy Palmer and Martyn Briggs.

1972 - Room for Company - Topic Impact IMP- S - 104. Two tracks as follows:-
'Room for Company' sung by The Singing Tradition incl. Martyn Briggs. 'Sing Ivy' by Shenley Court Comprehensive School Folk Group accompanied by (amongst others) Martyn Briggs on guitar.

I hope this helps.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: Mr Red
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 09:21 AM

if you sing Brummie songs (owr kid) there was a thread asking for Brumagem Songs a month back,

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: Noreen
Date: 23 Jun 14 - 01:43 PM

GUEST,Faye O'Connell -sorry, I'm not the same Noreen.

Subject: RE: Birmingham Traditional Music Club
From: GUEST,George Frampton
Date: 26 Jun 14 - 12:28 PM

Hello Bob and Paul,

Exchange is no robbery (or is it rubery?)
I have recordings from the Old Crown and Trad club on cassette which I've transferred onto CD-R which I could copy if wanted.
I'd dearly love any other recordings made at the Trad/Old Crown/Black Pig if anyone be so courteous.
I've only been back to Brum three times since my ill-fated PGCE year, the last being six years ago when my youngest daughter was choosing universities. I see Dave Hunt usually at Sidmouth, John Percy when he comes over there, and the Coes of course. I haven't seen Mick Bramich for years, but realise he lives in Devon. Derek Catley very kindly sent me the words of a song he sang when I requested it some years ago. I heard about Paul Havell on Mudcat earlier this year, although it was Gail I knew from the Old Crown and Holdens Goldens.

In the first instance, you can reach me at [e-mail]

Cheers!