BS: Police Brutality

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,wysiwyg minus cookie
Date: 15 Feb 16 - 09:07 AM

Yes.... but it's important to be aware that IN THE U.S., the glitz of using SWAT in THAT that way provided the marketing necessary to slip over-funding for SWATs (even in tiny, rural police departments) past the white public in order to fund a drug war when the drug use here was actually waning.... which resulted in the disproportionate (genocidal) mass incarceration of a rising ethnic group, with extreme violence.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,#
Date: 15 Feb 16 - 12:19 AM

The lines between what it means to be a soldier are confused with what it means to be a cop. Their functions are or at least should be different. The development of SWAT teams started way before Reagan's presidency, and the use of snipers to deal with civilian issues changed the face of policing. Today, too many cops seem to be buying into the machismo part of it all and it is not serving the people well by the looks of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,wysiwyg minus cookie
Date: 14 Feb 16 - 08:08 PM

From The New Jim Crow, how and when US policing moved beyond racial terrorism to fully militarized policing:

The transformation from "community policing" to "military policing," began in 1981, when President Reagan persuaded Congress to pass the Military Cooperation with Law Enforcement Act, which encouraged the military to give local, state, and federal police access to military bases, intelligence, research, weaponry, and other equipment for drug interdiction. That legislation carved a huge exception to the Posse Comitatus Act, the Civil War–era law prohibiting the use of the military for civilian policing. It was followed by Reagan's National Security Decision Directive, which declared drugs a threat to U.S. national security, and provided for yet more cooperation between local, state, and federal law enforcement.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Donuel
Date: 14 Feb 16 - 07:14 PM

nytimes/hospital.com

Man goes to hospital for his manic medicine and gets shot.
Not a shot but a bullet to the chest.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Feb 16 - 05:44 PM

Anmd the hits just keep coming! in "post-racial America".

White police officer alleges racial bias after being fired for shooting black man
Matt Kessler in Oxford, Mississippi
Thursday 11 February 2016

A police officer who shot and killed a 26-year-old man in Columbus, Mississippi, has filed a lawsuit alleging he was fired from his job because he is white and the man he shot was black.

In a seven-page complaint, Canyon Boykin claims he is the victim of racial discrimination and that his 14th amendment rights were violated. He claims that he would not have been discharged "except that he is white and the deceased was black".

Boykin was fired after he shot and killed Ricky Ball, in a case that has raised suspicion, questions and protests from the local community. Members of the city council say the official reasons for firing him were because he violated department policies by failing to activate his body camera, by posting offensive messages on Instagram and by allowing his girlfriend to ride in his police car for an unauthorized "ride along". Columbus city attorney Jeff Turnage said that the body camera violation occurred when Officer Boykin failed to turn on his camera before shooting Ball.

Turnage also points to an Instagram photo that Boykin posted that makes use of a derogatory term for black people.

Article Here

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,wysiwyg minus cookie
Date: 10 Feb 16 - 10:13 AM

Having not had time to read the whole thread, I would hope someone pointed out to Megan that when the whole system is skewed to treat ppl differently because they are perceived as members of an oppressed legally group, violence is more likely than not in each case of alleged brutality. Truth is less likely to be the first story told after the fact. The dynamics of investigation need to be different when SYSTEMIC abuses are alleged.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 16 - 09:17 AM

Thanks Guest, but that link isn't working for me - I Googled Police Brutality and got the headline of over 3,000 cases - but couldn't clickie it - the boys in blue must have been busy!!
Works perfectly otherwise
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Feb 16 - 09:00 AM

LINK

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 16 - 08:27 AM

The vast majority, if not all cases of police brutality in Britain (not counting Northern Ireland) have been committed against non-armed - not criminal citizens, the overwhelming number of them have been against protesters.
There is no excuse for police brutality of any form - none, though I am not surprised there are those who appease it; nor am I surprised who they are (you could have written their script in advance).
last year there were over 3,000 police officers being inveestigated for alleged police brutality - all were still on the beat (SORRY - CAN'T CLICKIE IT)
http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/crime/over-3000-police-officers-being-investigated-for-alleged-assault-and-almost-all-of-them-are-still-on-10220091.html
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 09 Feb 16 - 07:55 AM

Blaming the victim happens all of the time.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Feb 16 - 09:01 PM

You couldn't make this shit up......


Chicago Officer, Citing Emotional Trauma, Sues Estate of Teenager He Fatally Shot
By MITCH SMITH   FEB. 7, 2016

CHICAGO — The Chicago police officer who fatally shot a black 19-year-old and an unarmed bystander in December has filed a lawsuit seeking more than $10 million in damages from the teenager's estate.

Basileios J. Foutris, a lawyer for Mr. LeGrier's estate, called the lawsuit "nonsense" and said Officer Rialmo's account of what had happened was "pure fantasy."

"It's a new low for the Chicago Police Department," Mr. Foutris said. "First you shoot them, then you sue them. It's outrageous. I can't believe that this police officer has the temerity to turn around and sue the estate of the person who he killed."

Article Here

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: akenaton
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 06:20 PM

I didn't mean that literally Allan, it was a figure of speech.
Perhaps hard-headedness would be closer to the mark.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 05:23 AM

"I think to be a police officer in a society where firearms are so common "brutality" would be a must on any officer's CV."

No sorry can't go along with that. Firmness and assertiveness I'd imagine are a necessity when the occasion warrants it but there is no excuse or justification for brutality.

I must admit we were probably sheltered in the Scottish Borders in the 70s where everyone, even the troublemakers, got on reasonably well with the local police. However we got a sharp dose or reality one night in Newcastle in the late 70s. Three of us walked out of a pub and a policeman gestured to one of my mates to come over which he did. The policeman then grabbed my mate by the collar and rattled his head off the top of the police car. He then turned round to us and pointing said "there's plenty of room in the cells for you tonight". It was totally unprovoked and I honestly can't think we were doing anything to warrant their attention never mind that kind of assault. They then moved off leaving my mate in quite a shocked state, though thankfully not seriously harmed, but he wanted to just go home after that. Thuggery is thuggery whether you are a policeman or not.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 05 Feb 16 - 03:12 AM

I am still curious about the investigation , what did it reveal ?

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 04 Feb 16 - 10:46 AM

Thanks Jack

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Jack Campin
Date: 04 Feb 16 - 04:53 AM

Yesterday there was a brief followup comment on that from Richard Bridge. It wasn't saying anything particularly controversial, but it got deleted anyway. I presume that was just because some mod has decided to hate Richard.

---

Nothing of Richard's was deleted on this thread. You are mistaken.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,HiLo
Date: 04 Feb 16 - 04:29 AM

Has there been an investigation already?

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Jack Campin
Date: 03 Feb 16 - 10:54 AM

Meanwhile in London - the death of Sarah Reed:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/blogs-trending-35485275

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: akenaton
Date: 30 Jan 16 - 03:44 AM

My point was that the conclusion and the equation of Jack's statistics were flawed, not that police were never brutal.

I think to be a police officer in a society where firearms are so common "brutality" would be a must on any officer's CV.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 30 Jan 16 - 12:17 AM

True...and I'm not at odds with you about this.
I'll go you one further...not just the 'militarization' of the police departments...but the federalization of them as well!...and do we really want a politicized police force??....or one concocted to appear that way, at the behest of the globalist corporate oligarchy?? ..where no one votes for their CEO's???...and they hide behind the curtain???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,#
Date: 29 Jan 16 - 11:40 PM

I suspect the increase in cases of police malfeasance/misconduct is (at least partly) tied to the 'militarization' of police departments. The following link seems to think so, too.

https://www.aclu.org/feature/war-comes-home

And of course you're right that cops are human and there are one helluva lot of good cops out there. But police brutality seems to be happening and whether we see more because it's exposed more is a question that needs answering. I'll see if I can find statistical support for that contention and get back to you. But what isn't questionable is the fact that police brutality is happening.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Jan 16 - 10:42 PM

Yeah, well sometimes even cops need cops..after all they're just people.
To change people's behavior and proclivities, you need to bring in either a psychologist or even, God forbid, a minister.... and the 'so-called left' would shudder at the thought. I think that somehow, I get the impression from the 'left' (or 'right'), that unless you embrace THEIR thinking, in regards to politics, that there is no looking the other way, or forgiveness, until you do.

A delusional, self-indulgent mental illness....but they're not crazy..it's the rest of the world!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,#
Date: 29 Jan 16 - 09:56 PM

I expect "misdeeds" from people. That's why we have cops. Cops ain't supposed to be doing the misdeeds.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Jan 16 - 09:45 PM

Of course there are abuses in the law enforcement community...not as much as politicized...for instance, the whole 'Hands Up Movement' which came out of the Ferguson shooting, was based on a perjured testimony, in which the person who gave that false 'testimony' was never charged or prosecuted for perjury..but the phrase in his bogus, exaggerated testimony, became the motto of that movement....and BTW, 'Exaggeration' is just a polite way of saying 'Lying'!....but then the 'so-called liberals' (funded by white, rich guys) take the bullshit and run with it.

..So OK, there ARE misdeeds, BOTH ways. Let's not yourselves agree to support lying bullshit, just because it is 'convenient' to promote your personal biases.

Let the chips fall where they may, and at least make SOME effort, to form your opinions on truth, rather than hoping a convenient lie, can be used to bolster your 'politics'.

Seems fair to me!!

GFS

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,#
Date: 29 Jan 16 - 09:04 PM

http://www.policemisconduct.net/

For the information of anyone who thinks police are squeaky clean or there isn't a problem that needs fixin'.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Greg F.
Date: 29 Jan 16 - 07:48 PM

Well, its Goofus after, Jack. What would you expect?

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jan 16 - 07:04 PM

Police are usually confronting serious criminals, who 9 times out of ten will not be arrested willingly.

As the study stated explicitly, 90% of the ones who got hospitalized as a result of what the cops did to them were not subsequently convicted of a serious crime.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Jan 16 - 03:24 PM

Hey!..Where's the thread called 'Criminal Congeniality'?...or 'criminal thoughtfulness'?

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: akenaton
Date: 29 Jan 16 - 03:08 PM

Police are usually confronting serious criminals, who 9 times out of ten will not be arrested willingly.
That can hardly be equated with scuffles between civilians.

These sorts of studies are meaningless.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Jack Campin
Date: 29 Jan 16 - 11:34 AM

Research into the injuries inflicted by the police on arrested people in Illinois:

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2016/01/160129090504.htm

The conclusion is: you're less likely to get seriously hurt in a confrontation with a random drunken thug in a bar than if you have to deal with a stone cold sober trained police officer on duty. The cops are also much more likely to injure the mentally ill or partly paralyzed than the thugs are, you are much more likely to get kicked in the back when lying on the ground unable to defend yourself, and as measured by length of hospital stay, you will probably be twice as badly hurt. Oh, and there's a 90% chance that after you get out of hospital, you won't be convicted of anything meriting imprisonment.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 27 May 12 - 02:51 AM

I think I've explained my point of view enough. I'm going to shut up.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,punfolkrocker
Date: 26 May 12 - 10:22 PM

I saw a laughing policeman today.. really I did..

First, through our front window, we glanced a patrol car pulling up across the road..
then a policeman running past at full pelt...

As we got up off the sofa to have a better gawp,
2 of 'em were holding down & handcuffing a large enraged muscular thuggish looking bloke
who had only moments earlier been rampaging up our street
involved in some kind of violent disturbance..

Maybe a domestic involving his wife and kids ???

..then 3rd, a rather chubby faced jovial looking policeman
just started to crack a big smile and a have good quick chuckle to himself about something
while standing guard in case he was needed as back up.

A young policewoman then emerged from the thugs front door with a grim discomforted expression
wiping, scrubbing something off her face with a wad of tissues....

All the time the families 2 fierce fighting dogs were barking and howling
to accompany the cacophony of threatening shouts and screams.

He was swiftly driven off to the station and the street returned to normal
just in time for the start of the Eurovision Song Contest.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Stringsinger
Date: 26 May 12 - 01:00 PM

The mindset of police is that they are the supreme authoritarians. Most of them are robocops. Personal needs you may have are not on their agenda. This makes many of them agents of repression since they generally support the ruling class.

Their M.O. is just "doing their job" which is the detached apology that is given for their physical violence, mistreatment and bullying. There are those here who maintain that innocent protesters who are mistreated deserve what they got.

This is an index of the mounting fascism that we see in the world today.

Free speech is to be punished, not rewarded in a pseudo-democratic society.


There are those protesters such as the so-called "black box anarchists" who should be restrained from their violent actions and in this, police are justified for making their arrests. Ideally, police work should include decisions based on justice rather than blind prejudice and there are police who understand this and are interested in enhancing the common good.

The problem is not so much with the police as with the system that enables their bad behavior.

Also, the latin legal term "Cui bono?" is applicable here.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Janie
Date: 25 May 12 - 09:39 PM

Referring to LH's first post to this thread....Well said.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 May 12 - 06:46 PM

In response to the following:-

""If you doubt the veracity of that statement, you should really have a chat with my cousin Phil, and have a good look at the eighteen inch scar across his torso, put there by the five foot two inch girlfriend of a man he was arresting for assaulting her.

Don T"

Me unlearned friend posted:

""You expressly endorse the statement "If a cop talks to you as though   you might be a threat - its probably cos he's met someone like you that was a threat.""

So what are you accusing me of Richard?............MISOGYNY?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 25 May 12 - 06:39 PM

""Its a medical condition known as being 'a bit of a twat' - they did an article on me in The Lancet.""

Don't worry Al, it's a condition known to strike lawyers too, when they deliberately choose to put the narrowest construction (and of course the one which gives an erroneous impression of their opponent) on what is said, and stupidly stick to it even when the broader scope is repeatedly pointed out.

Twisting the facts is what they do for a living, and it's not too surprising that they find it impossible not to continue it outside of the adversarial atmosphere of their work place.

More to be pitied than blamed!

He hasn't even the nous to realise that the statement he keeps quoting didn't originate from MY keyboard, and that I merely expanded on it.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 May 12 - 09:07 PM

Don and Richard - please don't pick over my words as a source of disagreement, between a couple of the decentest of blokes. I'm well known for talking complete bollocks = particularly from the stage, and on mudcat.

Its a medical condition known as being 'a bit of a twat' - they did an article on me in The Lancet.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 24 May 12 - 07:17 PM

Here are your exact words Don

"With reference to Al's last comment:- ""If a cop talks to you as though   you might be a threat - its probably cos he's met someone like you that was a threat."".

If you doubt the veracity of that statement, you should really have a chat with my cousin Phil, and have a good look at the eighteen inch scar across his torso, put there by the five foot two inch girlfriend of a man he was arresting for assaulting her.

Don T"

You expressly endorse the statement "If a cop talks to you as though   you might be a threat - its probably cos he's met someone like you that was a threat."




Al - I'll never play guitar as well as you!

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 May 12 - 03:22 PM

Cpncerned - you have to take people as you find them. You've found the police service unsatisfactory. Well I have, on occasions - every action is open to a negative interpretation./

I'm sure my father would have been one of the first to agree with you about the venality and unpleasantness of some officers.   However, he didn't want me to enter the ranks of the cops. he said, it made you too cynical about people.

Can't help being a bit dubious about your tale though. Without any police training.. when I got my house burgled, I saw the utmost caution with which they proceded against the burglar - who was a well known criminal. That they should have raided and ripped apart your house on the basis of no evidence -hmmmm.......

I'm not saying you're a liar. Just that something doesn't quite add up. And you seem very anxious to slag off people who (however unsatisfactorilly) do an important job.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 24 May 12 - 02:20 PM

""well I'd swap 'egregious'""

He knows that one well enough Al.

Stock in Trade for the profession.

Don T

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,Concerned
Date: 24 May 12 - 02:08 PM

Hi Big Al

From your responses to my imput I can deduce three things:-

1. Your Father was a hero.
2. The Police are superb.
3. I am grossly mistaken/and or a gross liar.

May I say:-

1. Your Father may well have been a hero and it is good that you regard him as such.
2. The Police are not all superb, some are out and out b******ds
3. I am not mistaken nor am I a liar.

I feel you and others have to acknowledge that there are some officers within the force that are in fact a disgrace to the service. Some that distort the truth, some that take bribes, some that are corrupt, some who are bullies, some who break the laws they are there to uphold. As a public servant the Police should be above all the accusations I have listed above, sadly all are not.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 24 May 12 - 09:12 AM

Richard - have you heard Backwoodsman's music. I feel sure you would like it. And you're both really into guitars AND folk music - far more than I am. I'm sure you'd like each other if you met.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 24 May 12 - 06:13 AM

Owen - we don't agree, we never will, so let us agree to differ and get on with what remains of our lives in peace?

Richard - "Primitive Tribesman".......name-calling is so childish and pathetic don't you think? Clearly you don't, as you seem to resort to it so frequently. I grew up sufficiently to eschew name-calling many, many years ago. Shame you didn't. But then you never grew up and learned the value of a decent haircut either, so why am I not surprised you're a childish name-caller. If that's what posh-toff public schools teach a boy, then I'm so glad my dad was a poor man, and day-boy at a Grammar-School was the best I could do.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 12 - 05:42 PM

do I need to use even shorter words?

Don T.

well I'd swap 'egregious'

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 23 May 12 - 04:21 PM

""Well I've seen some appalling behaviour from people with a noteworthy similarity to your forbears - they were all Irish. You don't like it when someone points out that assumptions could be made about you, but you're all for assumptions when made by the police.""

I'm at a complete loss as to how anybody with your education and qualifications can turn out to be such an egregious FOOL!


""Primitive Tribesman - it was DON who said that the police treated people alike because they looked alike.""

NO!! I DID NOT!

I said (repeatedly) that police officers who wish to go on living treat people as a potential threat because they are:-

1). PEOPLE!
2). A POTENTIAL THREAT!

This has absolutely nothing to do with what they look like, how they sound or what kind of shirt they wear.

It is purely because every front line officer has at some time been under threat from somebody who looked like a HARMLESS HUMAN BEING, AND WASN'T!

Do you understand NOW, or do I need to use even shorter words?

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 12 - 09:25 AM

Owen - you may have an unequalled record in the field of defending human rights.

However - you are a prig.

people limke you must drive millions of people away from every worthwhile cause and organisation in the land.   There are divine voices in the bible less self righteous than your dulcet tones,

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 May 12 - 09:03 AM

The point I was making, Don, seems entirely to have eluded you. You said that police treated (and implied that they were entitled to treat) people as threats because "people like them" had been threats. Well I've seen some appalling behaviour from people with a noteworthy similarity to your forbears - they were all Irish. You don't like it when someone points out that assumptions could be made about you, but you're all for assumptions when made by the police.

I have been at group gatherings when police were there in number. I detect a worrying code of conduct - one seen on the video on this thread, and one that did for Liddle Towers and Blair Peach and the innocent man (name escapes me) on his way home in the London riots.

Primitive Tribesman - it was DON who said that the police treated people alike because they looked alike.

Owen - I do tend to think that those to the right of Genghis Khan are either evil or stupid. Or both. We can both thinks of some examples one can find on the social media!

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Owen Woodson
Date: 23 May 12 - 08:25 AM

Backwoodsman. Absolute ballocks. Stereotype. Dictionary defintion. "a simplified and standardized conception or image invested with special meaning and held in common by members of a group: The cowboy and Indian are American stereotypes." From http://dictionary.reference.com .

At no time in this thread, or anywhere else have I said anything literally, or to the effect, that Sergeant Harvey's behaviour was part of a stereotypical image of the British Police. I said there are a lot more like him. That is no more stereotyping than it would be to find a few rotten apples in the barrel and declare that the entire contents of the barrel are corrupt.

If you want an example of stereotyping, this case highly offensive, racist stereotyping, take a look at this; copied from one of the postings above.
"A pint of guinness and a couple of wack fol me daddy-ohs, and they all think Gerry Adams is their best mate, and they're ready to march on the GPO."

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: Big Al Whittle
Date: 23 May 12 - 08:18 AM

obviously the policeman misread the smoke signals - but it still doesn't really add up from the information supplied. Does any of the parties involved have some sort of record - is there any reason why their activities would have been of interest to the cops.

Or maybe you live in a remote village where marihuana use is very unusual. In most town centres, providing its done discretely, most cops don't react. zero tolerance, or no.

Subject: RE: BS: Police Brutality
From: GUEST,Corncerned
Date: 23 May 12 - 08:01 AM

Big Al, I have remained as a guest because, being subject by the Police to the sort of treatment we received, is not something I want to disseminate to those who may recognise me on this forum.
The events may strain your credulity but I can assure you it did happen, one reason may have been that one of his friends did have a sizeable amount of money on him, having said that it was two days before Christmas, with which he was going to do his Christmas shopping for friends and family, that was also messed up because it took him severals weeks to get his money back.
I should point out it was only one officer who was extremely obnoxious and to my mind extremely zealous and threatening, during the time they were in our house he accused my wife and I of money-laundering based, I think, on the fact we had a car registration plate in a cupboard, the car was leased to us and was parked by the house, if he had taken the trouble to note the registration number he would have seen it matched the plate in the cupboard, the man was not fit to be in the Police.