Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'

Subject: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: GUEST,lughnie
Date: 13 Jun 12 - 07:30 PM

Hello- I was wondering if anyone has the phonetic pronunciation available for "Se Dubh an Dath' (Black is the Colour). The lyrics in Irish that I have are as follows:

Se dubh an dath, de gruaig mo ghrá
Tá bheolaí cosúil le blathanna aille
Tá mean gáire deasa agus lamhaí bóg aici
Is táim i ngrá leis an áit a sheasann sí

Táim i ngrá le mo ghrá is tá a fios aici
a chusla mo stór mo ghrá gheal
Táim ag súil leis an la a mbeadh seans aici
bheith le cheile gan éinne linn

Níl aon am agam, tá mé ag dul leag
Saisúil ní bheadh mé go brach
Scríobhfaidh mé litir, cupla líonnta gear
Mar gheall ar an tsamhraidh is an aimsire bréa

It's such a lovely traditional tune; singing it in Irish might be nice at a future session. Many kind thanks in advance.

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: Marje
Date: 14 Jun 12 - 12:42 PM

It isn't an Irish song, although it has tenuous connections with Ireland. If you don't speak Irish, why not sing it in English, the original language it was written in? You can do more justice to a song if you understand the words you're singing.

Further details here:

thread.cfm?threadid=32248#422605

Marje

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: MartinRyan
Date: 14 Jun 12 - 04:57 PM

I agree Marje... To my ear, I'm afraid, it's a a not-very-poetic (and at times, I reckon, just poor) translation which serves neither the song nor the language well. Sorry.

Regards

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: s&r
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 10:40 AM

But can/will anyone answer the OP's request?

Stu

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: Leadfingers
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 11:05 AM

Is this more of the plot to render ALL folk music whatever the origins
as Irish or Celtic ?

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: Marje
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 11:28 AM

Even if someone thought it was a good idea to offer a phonetic transcription, it's very difficult indeed because English isn't very phonetic in the first place. There's no agreed, consistent way of transcribing many of the sounds, particularly the vowels and diphthongs, of another language, especially as they may not correspond directly with the phonemes of the English. It can be done for the odd phrase or two, but to attempt to transcribe whole chunks of Irish into "phonetic" written English is almost certain to lead to a mangled and distorted result.

If a singer really wants to sing a song in a language they neither speak nor understand (not something I'd recommend), their best hope is to learn from a live or recorded version where they can hear how it should sound. And it's likely to work best in a song that was originally written in that language, rather than a translation.

Marje

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: Dead Horse
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 06:10 PM

Well said Marje.

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: GUEST,Learaí na Láibe
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 07:14 PM

Doesn't look like very good Irish to me either.

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 15 Jun 12 - 10:03 PM

But it's an American song.... originally written by John J. Niles..... isn't it?

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: Brian Peters
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 04:59 AM

'Traditional, appropriated by' John J. Niles, more like. See the thread linked by Marje above for details of the Appalachian version collected by Cecil Sharp in 1916, which provided the template for most subsequent versions.

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: CET
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 04:40 PM

I have to say that the OP is asking a fair bit of the Mudcat Irish speakers - how to pronounce an entire song. Singing in a language you don't speak is possible. Opera singers do it all the time, but the think of the hard work and training they do, and the time they spend listening to other singers. There is no short cut. There are some Irish language songs I would like to do too, but I would find someone who had the skill and willingness to teach me before I trotted them out in public.

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: Leadfingers
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 05:33 PM

I honestly dont see the point of singing a song if you dont understand what you are singing !

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: GUEST
Date: 16 Jun 12 - 08:58 PM

The OP has not said they don't understand what they are singing, though, have they?

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: Richard from Liverpool
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 06:10 AM

And while we're at it, let's have a Swahili transliteration of The Star of the County Down.

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 06:43 AM

OK, will this work for you?:


Karibu na Banbridge Town, katika kata Down
Asubuhi moja ya mwezi wa Julai,
Chini ya kijani boreen alikuja Colleen tamu,
Na yeye alitabasamu kama yeye kupita mimi na;
Naam, yeye anaonekana hivyo tamu kutoka kwa miguu miwili bare
Na rangi ya nywele za rangi ya mbegu za mafuta yake;
Elf vile coaxing, uhakika mimi mwenyewe shook
Kuhakikisha kweli nilikuwa huko.

    Kutoka Bantry Bay hadi Derry Quay,
    Na kutoka kwa Galway Dublin mji,
    Hakuna msichana nimeona kama Colleen tamu
    Kwamba mimi walikutana katika kata Down.

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: Richard from Liverpool
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 09:19 AM

Thing of beauty that

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: Marje
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 09:20 AM

Great stuff! It has a definite flavour of computer translation, and it doesn't rhyme, and it doesn't scan, but what the hell, it would make a change from the over-performed standard version.

Marje

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 17 Jun 12 - 10:27 AM

Google translate doesn't do poetic. It was fun for a moment though.

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: GUEST,lughnie
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 06:17 PM

Hello all, OP here...

Wow, didn't think this question would open up such a can of worms! For the record, I am a studying Irish and I obtained the lyrics from Martin Dardis's website ; Martin is from Co. Dublin and included the Irish lyrics alongside the English ones for this particular song. The lyrics in Irish are actually very close to the English meaning. I have found that studying songs in a language help me to learn that language more easily; it seems like some others here have had a similar experience.

In retrospect, I probably should have asked if anyone knows where I might be able to find an audio recording of the song in Irish...

Thank you-

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: Leadfingers
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 06:32 PM

Good Luck with your studies ! Glad to hear you ARE learning the language - I have enough trouble in English ! LOL

Subject: RE: Irish pronunciation 'Black is the Color'
From: MartinRyan
Date: 19 Jun 12 - 06:57 PM

GUESTlughnie

Good luck with learning Irish - it's a wonderful, rich language. It's a great idea to use songs to help you learn. There are lots of simple songs in Irish which you might consider trying. They will have a more naturally Irish construction (both music and lyrics) than any translation of a song from another language - however beautiful or familiar!

Go n-éirí leat.