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BS: So this is about 'so' ....
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Subject: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: meself Date: 26 Jul 12 - 01:12 AM So I'm just wondering if this is an international phenomenon in the English-speaking world or if it's just Canadian: for the past few months, whenever I hear some pundit being interviewed on radio, they commence at least their first answer with "So .... ", e.g., "What led you to this conclusion?" "So we conducted a study of college students .... " Some commence every answer this way. (Variants: "Okay, so ... ", "Yeah, so ... "). This is by no means a new rhetorical device, but it has suddenly become ubiquitous. So has anyone else noticed this in their neck of the woods? |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: JennieG Date: 26 Jul 12 - 01:15 AM So long as the interviewee doesn't say "like....so". When I become queen I shall abolish the word "like" from the language. Cheers JennieG |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: GUEST,marks Date: 26 Jul 12 - 01:25 AM JennieG You will have my vote! That is, if Queens are elected! |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: GUEST,c.g. Date: 26 Jul 12 - 02:59 AM I'll vote for you! The words 'like' and 'said' are not equivalent. "So I'm like, are you going to the concert and he's like, no I'm busy" AARGH. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 26 Jul 12 - 04:00 AM In Ireland, they put it at the end, for example, "You won't be wanting a cup of tea, so?" |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Dave Hanson Date: 26 Jul 12 - 04:13 AM Like you got my vote JennieG, like. Dave H |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: MGM·Lion Date: 26 Jul 12 - 05:01 AM Could we, you know, place a, you know, embargo on, you know, "you know", while we are, you know, about it, you know, please? ~M, you know~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Bainbo Date: 26 Jul 12 - 05:37 AM Meself, is happens in Britain, too, more and more. All the time, in fact. I try not to let it irritate me, but once you notice it, you can't help but spot it every time. Another one is the double "is" in the middle of a sentence, as in: "The thing is, is that they don't realise they're doing it" or "The reason is, is that they treat the first clause as if it were a single word and then follow it with a verb." That's grown up in the last year or two and just won't go away. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Allan C. Date: 26 Jul 12 - 06:14 AM I am equally irritated by all of the above. I have also noticed the tendency for some radio interviewees to begin their response to a question with, "Yeah. No." as in "Yeah. No. The band started out in Boise and we just played in local clubs." Speaking of radio, does anybody know the history behind why announcers start nearly every segment with "And ..."? as in, "And now, the news." or "And you are listening to WPUG in Zanesville, Ohio." I find that almost as irritating. Oh, you never noticed that? Well now you will. I'm so glad to have this opportunity to share (and spread) my irritation! (Smile) |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Will Fly Date: 26 Jul 12 - 06:29 AM "The Eggheads - probably the most forMIDable quiz team..." uses a word which would once have been pronounced FORmidable. And as for people doing REsearch when they should be doing reSEARCH - well! |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Amos Date: 26 Jul 12 - 09:19 AM The "ya, no..." temporization is notable in Afrikaans/Boer dialects as well. In my memory the double "is" started out as a technically correct construction, "What it is, is...." used instead of the preferable "It is...". Once that camel got his nose under the tent all bets were like, off. You know? A |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Rapparee Date: 26 Jul 12 - 09:22 AM In the first place they are simply searching again -- doing RE-search -- because they failed in their reSEARCH. So, you guys, the thing is, I wonder what a world without "like" would be, like, like, ya know? |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: meself Date: 26 Jul 12 - 09:54 AM I'm not terribly bothered by the "so" business; it's just something I've noticed and am curious about. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Bill D Date: 26 Jul 12 - 11:44 AM " REsearch when they should be doing reSEARCH The 'correct' syllable to accent seems to be largely a difference between UK and US usage. I have NEVER heard anyone say reSEARCH. Other idiomatic usages, like...like, and "so" and "you know", seem to have escaped and now run free in all parts of civilization. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: MGM·Lion Date: 26 Jul 12 - 12:14 PM Bill ~~ Over here you would never have heard it pronounced any other way: REEsearch is not used here at all. I once OPd a thread on differences in transAtlantic usages; this was one of the ones most often mentioned iirc. ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: GUEST,saulgoldie Date: 26 Jul 12 - 01:01 PM Jennie, When you are queen...No, you MAY NOT ban them. Did *you know* that I *like* you? See there, now? The law of unintended consequences rears its ugly head, oncet again. (Can a "law" rear its head? Yes, indeedie. It is MY metaphor, and I SAY it can. So there!) Saul |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: MGM·Lion Date: 26 Jul 12 - 01:32 PM BTW, Bill D ~ re 'research': you surely heard your Tom Lehrer pronounce it our way in his Lobachevski song ~~ "Plagiarise, let nobody's work evade your eyes, why you think the Good Lord made your eyes?... But be careful, please, always to call it reSEARCH". Delivered, granted, in a cod Russky accent; but even so...? ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: GUEST,999 Date: 26 Jul 12 - 01:45 PM Over thirty years back I overheard two gals (but only one talking). So he goes, "Well?" And I goes "Well what?" And he goes "Well, what what?" And I goes . . . . Keriste. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 26 Jul 12 - 01:55 PM Like, so? Merriam Webster's Collegiate Dictionary accepts both re 'search and 're search. So does the OED. It seems, like, when a word is used both as a noun and a verb (later usage), dual pronunciations are common. Personally, I agree with MtheGM, but English is a varied and evolving language, with widely separated centers (Australia, New Zealand, U.S. and Canada, UK (some local variants!), and as an introduced language in some African and other countries. So, users in GB are far outnumbered by users elsewhere; their preferences carry little weight any more. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: MGM·Lion Date: 26 Jul 12 - 02:02 PM Bill: The Lobachevsky song ~ http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IL4vWJbwmqM Q ~ I don't think your last point entirely valid. Mere counting of heads will not alter the fact that the language, wherever used, is still called "English"; and all dialects variants must therefore surely be regarded simply as dialects of ours, whose preference, in case of disagreement rather than acceptance of variation (which will of course occur in vast majority of instances), must accordingly be recognised as paramount? No?. ~M~ I suspect I know what your reply to this last rhetorical question is likely to be. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 26 Jul 12 - 02:32 PM I also detest the new twenty-seventh letter in the alphabet, namely 'haitch'. It's everywhere, even on TV. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: GUEST,999 Date: 26 Jul 12 - 02:38 PM 'all dialects variants must therefore surely be regarded simply as dialects of ours' Including those so numerous in the UK. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Rapparee Date: 26 Jul 12 - 02:58 PM Iffen I 'member rightly, this here English they speak today came right outa the West Midlands dialect back 'round the time of Jeff Chaucer. And alla that came from stuff like Old Norse and Saxon and Jute and Latin and Gaelic and Gailige and Welsh and Anglo and Celtic and Really Old German, except where stuff like Persian crept in. "All your base are belong to us," huh? |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Bill D Date: 26 Jul 12 - 05:36 PM Michael... I And I must say, 'most' of the American pronunciations do not heavily emphasize the 1st syllable, especially when used as a verb. It stands out a bit more as a noun. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: JennieG Date: 26 Jul 12 - 05:43 PM Allan C, "yeah......no" is prevalent here too. I have even caught myself doing it - and pulled myself up sharply for it. While the English language (I can't speak for other languages) is continually changing and evolving and in many ways becoming richer for that - it doesn't mean we have to like all the changes, does it? Cheers JennieG |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Ed T Date: 26 Jul 12 - 05:52 PM It may have all started with the song lyric "So, this is Christmas" |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 26 Jul 12 - 06:20 PM "haitch" is the standard pronunciation in many if not most parts of England, and is the older way of pronouncing the letter. Dropping the h sound when referring to the letter is a relatively recent local and class pronunciation. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: GUEST,999 Date: 26 Jul 12 - 07:14 PM aitch, haitch and all that. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Allan C. Date: 27 Jul 12 - 06:18 AM So, *grin* while we're talking about REsearch, it would seem only natural to discuss the merits of DEfense. I find it odd that football announcers will sometimes use DEfense and deFENSE in the same narrative. However, none ever waivers between OFFense and ofFENSE. They appear to prefer the former, but always call ofFENSive tackles with the emphasis on the second syllable. Go figure. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: MGM·Lion Date: 27 Jul 12 - 06:50 AM One of the comments to the article ref'd two posts back leads me to the drift point that one abbreviation which rather absurdly takes much longer to say than what it is supposedly abbreviating is www: 'double-u double-u double-u' has 9 syllables, whereas 'World Wide Web' has only 3. If I am ever asked to speak out the name of a website, over the phone or any such, I always say "wuh-wuh-wuh". How do other cope with this? ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: McGrath of Harlow Date: 27 Jul 12 - 06:56 AM One interesting development is the way that the letter "t" increasingly seems to to get dropped at the end or in the middle of words even by people who are otherwise using more or less received pronunciation". |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 27 Jul 12 - 12:18 PM Innit? Rapparee, those foreigners, the Normans, also have a lot to answer for. And Randall Cotgrave and others who put out dictionaries with new words that they thought were needed by the agglomeration of tongues called English. (And) so it came to pass..... |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Bert Date: 27 Jul 12 - 01:48 PM Eliza, but Canadians already have an end of sentence word EH! |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Bill D Date: 27 Jul 12 - 02:31 PM " I always say "wuh-wuh-wuh". How do other cope with this?" I don't bother, since most, if not all, browsers assume that the WWW is there when you paste in an address. If I HAD to say it, I would say "dubya-dubya-dubya". We are posting in Mudcat.org...very seldom does one NEED to specify the entire 'code'. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: GUEST,Eliza Date: 27 Jul 12 - 02:33 PM McGrath, glottal stops have become quite fashionable these days. I noticed Prince William, of all people, let a few slip into his words on TV. As did Tony Blair, in spite of his top-notch education at Fettes. As for 'haitch', well, it's bloomin' common innit? |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: JohnInKansas Date: 27 Jul 12 - 02:40 PM The accent on the word "research" is variable among many in the US, although no real rules exist that I know of. It's not as common in US English for people to be aware of the declensions of nouns or conjugations of verbs, and adjectives and pronouns are foreign beasts to most. REsearch is most commonly used as a subjective noun, and often as a verb. reSEARCH is more commonly heard when it's an objective noun, although it may vary. Verbals, and adjectival nouns/verbs are too variable for comment. These are, of course, offhand observations not based on research on the word. It is also (in the US) fairly commonly considered almost a custom to MISPRONOUNCE some words "colloquially" to emphasize a particular sense of the usage - especially among "sports" advocates, coaches, and announcers - with the hope that it makes them seem like "one of the gang." Pronouncements on differences between US and UK usages are generally risky, since there is often too much variation (especially on the US side) to declare a particular deviant as being representative of general use. About the only term I can think of where a persistent difference has been found is the term cluge, cludge, kluge, kludge - with variable spellings on both sides, that nearly always has been a derogatory term (pronounced like "fudge") in UK usage but can be a "high compliment" in some US usage ("pronounced like "huge") . Of course that may have changed in more recent usages in either/both places, since on either side it's "slang" (or maybe "jargon") and subject to use by people who don't know what it means - or at least what it meant in earlier times. John |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: AllisonA(Animaterra) Date: 28 Jul 12 - 09:05 AM Re the OP, around here "So" has become the new "um" as a niose to make whilst gathering one's thoughts. The chairman of a committee I am on does it for the start of Every. Single. Thought. and I am attempting both not to be driven crazy AND not to fall down the rabbit hole and get into the same habit! For me, the result is that I find myself taking more time thinking out what I have to say, and thus eliminating most of those unnecessary noises. Not that it always works, yanno? |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Q (Frank Staplin) Date: 28 Jul 12 - 01:53 PM cluge et al.- I had to look this one up, as I had never seen or heard it before. Found it in the urban dictionary. So I prefer the more rustic(?) dead meat. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: Ed T Date: 28 Jul 12 - 02:49 PM He is so, like, hottt. Like, I really like him soooo much. |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: catspaw49 Date: 28 Jul 12 - 03:01 PM So, like, uh, whatza point? I mean like, you don't really need one, ya' know, but just sayin'................ Spaw |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: JohnInKansas Date: 28 Jul 12 - 06:33 PM a niose to make whilst gathering one's thoughts As one of my High School teachers would have said: "More often it's a noise made while the speaker pauses and waits in the vague (and usually vain) hope that some sort of thought will magically appear." (But the teacher was sort of an odd duck who stressed preparation and rehearsal for formal public speaking.) John |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: MGM·Lion Date: 28 Jul 12 - 11:40 PM Bill D: But 'dubya x 3' still twice as many syllables as World Wide Web, innit? ~M~ |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: katlaughing Date: 29 Jul 12 - 12:25 AM Just so'se ya all know, you, like don't hold a candle to Ditzee Lee, who made her early appearances in that thread whilst using MY cookie! |
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Subject: RE: BS: So this is about 'so' .... From: MGM·Lion Date: 29 Jul 12 - 12:33 AM They come and they go. The infuriating "if you like" appears, mercifully to have died the death. Always made me want to scream, "Yes I love it; now get on with it for fuck's sake!" Sports commenter Ron Atkinson never tired of it; then got the sack for a racist remark with his mic still on. Served him right. He was bound, if you like, to come to a sticky end, if you like. ~M~ |
