Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice

Subject: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: GUEST,Silas
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 08:30 AM

Hi - I need two really good acoustic pick-ups for a fylde Orsino and a Martin HD28V. I don't like the soundhole ones, I want something good, something that sounds acoustic and something that wont affect the sound or dynamics of the guitar when being used acoustically. Some independant advice would be good, money is not really an issue here, but the sound is the most important thing.

thanks

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Phil Cooper
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 08:36 AM

I've had highlander SA mics installed on several of my guitars. They are not pick ups, but internal microphones. The guitars sound like they ought to, not that quacking thing that some under the bridge pick ups do. I've heard a lot of people here speaking highly of the fishman system as well.

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Bobert
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 08:58 AM

Martin makes a nice pickup... Fishman are also very, very good..

B~

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: GUEST,bankley
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 11:23 AM

LR Baggs 'Anthem' internal mic plus under the saddle wafer, with small pre-amp and controls accessed from the sound hole

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Rusty Dobro
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 11:45 AM

I've just bought a Fishman Apex Infinity under-saddle p/up for a Martin D18 on the advice of my repairman - not fitted yet, but I'll post again when it is. Or come and hear it in action with the Trembling Wheelbarrows at the Folkeast Festival near Lowestoft on 24 August.

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 12:42 PM

It really depends how loud you want to go.

Magnetics and undersaddles will go pretty loud but colour the sound to a greater or lesser degree. I've tried quite a few and I like the Headway snake, but I also got a good result with a Shadow Powersaddle into a Fishman preamp. B-band are a bit too self-effacing for my taste but are fairly true to the guitar (although I have had reliability issues).

Anything with a microphone in will be REALLY easy to trigger oscillatory feedback before you are half-loud and in principle the last place you want to put a microphone is inside something.

Things that stick onto the soundboard etc are also very prone to feedback, but many like the LR Baggs I-Beam. You can also use the LR Baggs I-blend which combines an undersaddle with a soundboard (well, to be accurate, inner bridge plate) stickon, and B-band can do that too.

I have never yet heard a soundhole pickup that sounded much better than a laundryline of wet socks - but I think the Fishmans are maybe the least bad.

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 02:29 PM

What situations are you playing in? Solo? Band? Large or small venues? What kind of music? Folk? Rock? Country?

If you're not playing in a band, the K&K Pure is pretty much the most natural 'acoustic' pickup around, nothing under your saddle to bollocks up your 'unplugged' tone, it's passive so no heavy battery in the guitar that could leak or will need farting around replacing from time to time. It's a pretty 'hot' signal for a passive PU and it's quite possible to do without a pre-amp, but its output impedance is 1 megohm, compared with the UST's usual 10 megohm, so a suitable outboard DI/pre-amp like the Orchid Muting DI, or the Orchid Acoustic Pre-amp is desirable for the purpose of matching the PU output impedance with the input of a PA.

I have K&Ks in my Martins (HD-28V and OM-28 Marquis) and in my Lowden, which I put through either my Orchid Muting DI or Orchid Acoustic Guitar Pre-amp, and I get a lot of comments about how great all three sound. I'm doing solo folky-type stuff.

Orchid Electronics

K&K Pickups

If you're playing in a band and working at high volumes, a UST such as a Fishman or, if you want to go up-market, a Headway or Highlander, would be a better bet from the feedback viewpoint. As I haven't used USTs for a few years I can't really comment any further about them (other than to say I don't like them much!).

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: GUEST,Chris Newman
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 06:35 PM

Another vote for K&K. All my guitars that have pickups have the K&K pure western mini installed. Three little discs superglued to the bridgeplate - no battery and a very hot output. Good system!

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 09:39 PM

Bernie.....had a Fishman under-saddle something years ago on a Martin D16;not much good....quacky sound,etc....haven't much knowledge of electronics,but have had two Martins [OM16 and now an OM35]with LR Baggs I-Beam's...just a stick-on thing on the bridgeplate,a tiny pre-amp in the input cord-jack,and a small volume wheel in the sound-hole...pretty much pure acoustic sound to my ear....preserves the sound and tonality pretty well...there are newer versions on the market which I'm not familiar with...

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 29 Jul 12 - 11:47 PM

I have said before in answer to this very question if you are using a piezo pick up you have to use a pre amp or they will quack and sound awful. I use a L R Baggs para acoustic pre amp, The Chocolate Brick on my banjo with a Pick Up The World. It is the most banjo sounding pick up I have heard.

I have a twenty year old Fishman under the saddle pick up which I use a Barcus Berry basic pre amp and get very good sound from my old guild. It isn't a perfect acoustic sound but it is good and no feed back. I use an out board shure 57 to give it an acoustic boost and I am happy with that.

D

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Seamus Kennedy
Date: 30 Jul 12 - 12:32 AM

Seriously. Listen to Chris Newman.

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 30 Jul 12 - 02:09 AM

What Seamus said. Chris knows about guitars and how to play 'em good!

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Zen
Date: 30 Jul 12 - 05:08 AM

I have used both the K&K Pure and the Pick Up the World #27 and find both reproduce the acoustic sound very well. The PUTW 27 needs a preamp though.

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: RamblinStu
Date: 31 Jul 12 - 04:43 AM

I've used Headway pickups for years and have been very pleased with the results

Stuart Pendrill

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Musket
Date: 31 Jul 12 - 12:29 PM

I too like LR Baggs. I use their Elementis pickup c/w control board for my Rainsong OM10 and the sound is outstanding to say the least.

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: GUEST
Date: 31 Jul 12 - 02:27 PM

Presently, I've got a K&K mounted inside my mandolin that I run through a Boss bass inline 10 band graphic eq ahead of the DI and behind a stomp tuner. GREAT sound. I pull the highest band all the way out and use the other 9 to balance the sound. Volume @ 5

My 6 string guitar is an old Alvarez w/an L.R. Baggs stripped from a Seagull. It's a great PU. Volume w/a 3 band eq and tone shaping. A soundhole plate holds down the feedback and I ease up on the treble. Most acoustic players like to hear that 'ringing' sound like they hear it in their living rooms, but in a performance situation it fatigues the audiences' ears.

12 String is a 'Lawsuit Era' all mahoghany Takamime w/t stock Tak pick-up. Just treble/bass/volume and it still sounds great after 30+ years. A soundhole plate as well. Not the rubberized ones, but the hard plastic ones that have plastic clips that fit under the soundboard and grip the top. Don't know the maker.

My autoharp will be equipped w/a K&K like my mandolin, but probably not run through an eq unless needed, though it will definately have some sort of tuner, either onboard or inline.

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 02:24 PM

Renew

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: GUEST,DonMeixner
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 03:00 PM

I find myself in this situation again. Needing to power up an old acoustic to play amplified situations. I have put a Fishman bridge lick up in another old guild guitar. I run it through an L R Baggs gigpro on my belt. (I am switching that to my guitar strap to make changing gear easier).

I can balance the dynamics with the preamp and the board to get a solid acoustic sound. An I can easily hit the gain if I want to rat out the sound a little. Or I can always use a pedal.

But the rig is solid.

Don   

PS:

Guest, use a pre amp of some stripe on the harp. It warms up the sound and it allows for more usable volume.

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: GUEST
Date: 01 Aug 12 - 03:57 PM

Thanks Don,

My thought was to use a small Mackie board ahead of the main PA system for everything. It has 4 XLR/1/4" channels w/trim/3 eq pots/volume sends and main volume send. Each instrument has it's own eq needs...all different. I can use a DOD A/B pedal to go back and forth between the 6 and 12. The mando and harp are more feedback prone and require more attention. I've got a guitar inline eq I planned to try out on the Harp when it gets set up. The bass eq works really well w/t mando, so I'll leave that alone.

Again, thank you for the input. The whole set-up is a work in progress. Dialing it all in is going to take some time. I'm going to have a banjo on stage, eventually...not to play, but just to frighten people.

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: JHW
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 09:39 AM

I had a Fishman fitted under the bridge but didn't want holes in the body of my Gurian for an EQ. Do very little with PAs but have found relying on the sound man for eq not always ideal.
Have looked at a Boss pedal with finger operated frequency sliders but that's on the floor.
These days I wondered if there might even be an inboard preamp (the Fishman has a fixed one) with a 'Remote' to set it's EQ?

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: punkfolkrocker
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 10:35 AM

There are actually plenty of affordable standalone acoustic preamp EQs
which can either be used as floor stomp boxes, or on a stand/table...
used as DI boxes for PA, or into guitar amps..

eg Behringer ADI-21 £25

Ashdown AA-Pedal £95

Amazon is a good place for a look for low cost Chinese OEM / clone acoustic preamp EQ pedals...

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Will Fly
Date: 28 Mar 17 - 12:22 PM

I took Chris Newman's's advice at a concert of his some years age and installed K&K pickups in two of my guitars and a mandolin. They're superb. I use them through a Roland Cube - the acoustic channel - and the sound is as good as it gets.

No controls on the fitting itself - but I have a K&K pre-amp that I can use on a belt clip with EQ and volume if need be. Also excellent.

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 04:10 AM

Amen, Will!
Although I'd go Orchid for the pre-amp - in fact I do!

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 04:12 AM

I only use my Orchid pre-amp if I'm playing through a PA. No need for a pre-amp if I'm using my Roland acoustic amp, the guitar channel does it all.

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 04:15 AM

Exactly!

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Will Fly
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 04:22 AM

Just checked out the spec for the Orchid pre-amp. It looks very good indeed.

I rarely use my K&K directly through a PA but, if I did, I think I'd go for the Orchid as well. Before I got the K&K, I used a very good DI box to split the sound between stage amp and PA mixer. I now find I get a better sound "out there" by using a Shure mic dropped just over the Roland speaker - and the mic lead goes to the PA.

The only slight downside of that is I can't adjust the stage amp volume without also adjusting the PA volume - but that's probably a good idea. Once the sound check has been done, I leave it where it is - no guitarist's volume creep for me!

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 08:04 AM

👍👍

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: GUEST,BIgnige
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 08:53 AM

There are many pick ups around, but I think you get what you pay for. What I think is more important what you play them through. I use AER compact 60, on its own or if necessary with a line out the back into the PA. The benefit is that the AER will in both situations give a sound you are familiar with, nothing worse than getting a guitar sound through a monitor you don't like, too quacky, too boomy etc etc.

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 09:31 AM

I have a K & K Pure pickup on my Chisholm guitar. I don't have a preamp, and it's been through a variety of PAs at open mics without any problem....but then I'm just a bumbly, not trying to achieve any kind of professional sound. If I was playing more regularly or in bigger venues I'd probably go for a pre-amp.

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Gozz
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 09:50 AM

I have noticed a number of 3 pad pickups currently marketed as "Pure" but no mention of K & K as the make, so presumably copies, but much, much cheaper than the originals. Anyone knowingly have experience of these?

Subject: RE: Acoustic Guitar Pick -up advice
From: Merritt
Date: 29 Mar 17 - 11:01 AM

JJB Electronics uses an approach similar to K&K but much cheaper. I have their Premier 220 (2 pads) ($40) in a beater travel guitar and it sounds pretty good plugged in via a Fishman preamp. It sounds ok without the preamp but it's better with it, and I prefer to have some control over the vol, EQ, etc. Had it installed by a luthier for $30.

Here's a sound sample I did for someone on another forum looking at JJB, other options. https://soundcloud.com/vern-equinox/jjb-220-sampler