 sj |
||
|
||
Most difficult tune or song
|
|
|
Subject: Most difficult tune or song From: Rick Fielding Date: 22 Oct 99 - 01:18 AM Holy Cow! I feel like I've just run a three minute mile. I've known the old Les Paul tune "Little Rock Gettaway" for a number of years and a couple of weeks ago I thought I'd REALLY learn it well to play in concert. Well, it's one hell of a difficult tune. I'm playing it in F (cause it sounds best to my ear there) with melody and a bass line, and for the first time in years my fingers are actually aching. I'm going to persevere though. Just curious what songs or tunes folks have considered REALLY difficult to learn. The tune "Dill Pickle Rag" on the banjo also has given me fits. Rick |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Lady McMoo Date: 22 Oct 99 - 05:20 AM I just cannot play the Irish traditional tune "All around the world" despite having attempted to learn it for 25 years. All other musicians I know can play it without problem and I can easily play some other tunes others find difficult. It's almost as if I have a complete mental block on that particular tune. mcmoo |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: 1979 Date: 22 Oct 99 - 06:56 AM One song that is bugging me very much at this particualr time is "The Flowers of Bermuda", by Stan, "The Man", Rogers. I know like McMoo that it is not a really difficult song but when it comes to playing and singing it at the same time I just cannot get the right strums. |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Allan C. Date: 22 Oct 99 - 08:28 AM I play a song called "I'm A Drifter" which I have only ever heard done by Vince Martin and Fred Neil. The way I play it involves, E, B minor, G (third fret), and A (fifth fret). When called for, a C9 is also used. All of these are played as three-finger chords with no barre (in other words, open strings, standard tuning). The chords are played in rather quick succession. I learned (at Annap's first gathering) never to attempt this song after having consumed more than two beers! |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Vixen Date: 22 Oct 99 - 08:29 AM Wow-- It makes me feel better to know that a musician of Rick's stature has tunes that he finds tough! Like McMoo, I seem to have a mental thing about Miss McCloud's Reel when I flat-pick it. I have to sort of mentally slide into it sideways, and then not let myself realize I'm playing it. It "gives me fits" because I learned it 20 years ago, and I love it, and whenever I play it *at tempo*, I get cramps between my thumb and index finger and my wrist aches, and it usually turns into a "train wreck" about the second time through. I play things like "Devil's Dream" no problem, but not Miss McCloud. I've been practicing relaxing my right hand while playing, and that seems to help sometimes. The frustrating thing is, I can play it fine when the tempo is "geriatico" but when I try to pick up speed, I can only get through it once or twice before my right hand gets into an energy runaway, and goes so fast I lose my pick, the melody, and my composure. For singing, the timing of "How Can I Keep From Singing" is really tough for me. V |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: JedMarum Date: 22 Oct 99 - 08:40 AM It's a funny thing; there are songs that don't really seem to be difficult, but they just give you a hard time to play! For me, I have a block with my version of My Grandfather's Clock. I do a finger picked arrangement in C (caped at the 3rd fret to an E flat) and when I hit the line that says ..'of the day that he was born' I pick the melody in a two note octave chord from the D,C,B,A,G. If I sit and start with that line, it is a no brainer; easy to play and I hit it every time. If it's in the middle of the song, I usually miss a note somewhere in the run. It makes no sense, but ... there it is! Svarlet Ribbons is also a simle, lovely tune, and difficult to play ... but worth the ef |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Davey Date: 22 Oct 99 - 09:11 AM I'm presently struggling with St. Anne's Reel on the mandolin. I can't get the notes clean and up to speed, and after a couple of times through it my fingers and left wrist are aching... |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Blackcat2 Date: 22 Oct 99 - 09:29 AM I sing and I like to focus on the hard ones - especially fast Irish ones and the one that has always giving me fits is "Rocky Road To Dublin" I cannot figure out the best places to breathe (or any places to breathe). Mary Mack is tough too, but not as bad - I' willing to sing that in public! |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Arnie Naiman Date: 22 Oct 99 - 09:42 AM There are certain fiddle tunes that I find my fingers just will not connect with my brain properly, and I just can't play them. All of the above mentioned tunes - McClouds Reel, Devils Dream, St.Annes, are not only all finger twisters, but also mind bogglers. What I really hate is that they are on most fiddler's playing lists in Canada, and I can never feel comfortable playing those tunes with anyone - I tend to just forget about those tunes, and as a result never practice them, so over the years they just deteriorate more instead of improve. -But there are lots of other good tunes out there! |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Jon Freeman Date: 22 Oct 99 - 10:06 AM Although I have no trouble with any of the reels (except Devils Dream which I don't know) listed there are some tunes that have defeated me on the tenor banjo because of technical difficulty but these have normaly involved a passage moving up the neck a little - beyond the B on the first string. One I can play if I paractise at it but always find difficult is the Moving Cloud. Often if I find a particular passage is bugging me in a tune that I am learning, I will modify or simplify it slightly to suit my playing. Also, as mcmoo mentioned, I think that it is possible to have a mental block with a tune. The Monaghan Jig is one like that for me. There is nothing difficult about the tune but where it goes and where my brain tells me the melody should be going are different and in 12 years, I don't think I got through it once without getting lost at some point. Another varient on the mental block theme with me is the tune that changes half way through, e.g. The Tailors Twist has an infuraiting habit of ending up as the Manchester Hornpipe. I noticed a couple of people mention cramp or other aches and pains. If I dive in with a couple of fast reels, I can end up with tightening across the back of my right hand and a cramp in my left forearm. The solution for me is simple, warm up first - I like to start with a couple of gentle hornpipes. Having said that, I would guess that the problems mentioned here are caused by the sheer difficulty of the tunes. Jon |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Date: 22 Oct 99 - 11:16 AM Tabhair Dom Do Laimh (Give me your hand) is such a pretty tune I was pleased to see that someone had put words to it (the Wolfetones? I forget). But now I'm wishing they hadn't, because much as I want to, I can't sing it - because I don't have the three-octave range it requires! I guess I should have known it would be difficult when the recording I heard had two different people singing different sections. I wonder if the range gives instrumentalists a fit too? |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Rick Fielding Date: 22 Oct 99 - 12:14 PM Vixen, I LOVE IT! "Geriatico". That's the way I'm gonna play "Little Rock Gettaway" for the next few days. I've had real trouble getting a handle on certain songs for years now. One is Alfred Karnes' "I'm Bound For The Promised Land". I first heard it while rummaging through Sandy and Caroline Paton's record collection 6 years ago. Part of the problem I guess is that in my way I'm narrower than the most academic traddie in the way I want to hear (or sing) certain songs. Rev. Karnes' skill and emotion just blew me away totally, and if I can't bring something new or worthwhile to his song (by my narrow definition) then I'd rather not mess with it. Same with his "Called to The Foreign Field". I can't imagine anyone else singing that (very antiquated) song any better. Sandy says it's the most powerful American folk performance he's ever heard, and I must have played the record 30 times in a few hours. As to tough fiddle tunes, I still haven't got a handle on "Soldier's Joy" after 25 years. I don't have unrealistic expectations - just a weak up-stroke with the flatpick on either mandolin or guitar. This process is what makes folk music fun though. Rick |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: kendall Date: 22 Oct 99 - 12:47 PM then there's Peggy Gordon, The Minstrel Show, Phil Brown I do all of them, but, they all have someting wierd in the timing or chord sequence. A true story follows.. Years ago there was a man named George who played at all the dances, and was known far and wide as a great fiddler.One night, at the break, a man came to George and asked "Thats a nice fiddle you have there, may I try it?" George.. "Sure do it. the man sawed through a fairly difficult tune, and butchered it. Laying the fiddle down he said "Thats a hard one to play." George "It's a hard one to listen to too!" |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: QRS Date: 22 Oct 99 - 01:47 PM I have two Irish tunes that I find hard to play: The Humours of Lisadell and the wise maid(on Tin Whistle) If I play banjo (five string) I always find Foggy Mountain Breakdown and The Reel of Rio hard to play.. Regards QRS |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Pete Peterson Date: 22 Oct 99 - 01:56 PM Kendall, your story reminds me of a quote attributed to Samuel Johnson, when he heard a piece being butchered by a singer. Boswell sait "It's a really difficult piece" to which Johnson replied "Difficult, Sir? I wish it were impossible!"
In modern English I generally revise that to "Too bad it's not impossible" I attempt classical banjo tunes myself and find MOST of them difficult if not impossible. I think Vess Ossman had three hands. I play simplified versions of some of the great ones; St. Louis Tickle, Smokey Mokes, Peaceful Henry, At a Georgia Camp Meeting, and so on. Dill Pickles on the banjo (in a non-Scruggs three finger style) seems to work out easily-- Rick, would love to compare notes (pun deliberate) some time! |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Jeremiah McCaw Date: 22 Oct 99 - 01:56 PM I remember "Mrs. McCloud's Reel" being done at a slow jam at this past summer's Celtic College in Goderich, Ontario (which I unreservedly recommend, BTW). Now I know that reels are supposed to be done to a certain tempo, but this particular one when slowed right down for the learners in the group aquired a certain bounce and vitality that was just plain lovely to listen to. Sometimes a blinding pyrotechnical speed just ain't what a song needs. |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Vixen Date: 22 Oct 99 - 03:39 PM Rick--I'm glad you like "geriatico." It's one of my favorite tempos for learning new pieces of music! (Another is "turtleissimo" which is more sprightly) I happen to find the variant of Soldier's Joy I first learned fairly easy to play...however, I have since discovered two variants (one version Randy Scruggs plays on the Crown of Jewels CD and the other is on a friend's unattributable homemade tape) that I like much, much better and cannot for the life of me figure out. My version doesn't have anywhere near as many notes in it, which is probably why I can play it relatively easily. Jeremiah--Tim has worked out a terrific dual lead part that harmonizes with the melody of Miss McCloud's reel. I'm going to suggest we try it at a slower pace and see if we can get the "lovely bounce and vitality" to which you refer. V
|
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Torbjörn Date: 22 Oct 99 - 06:28 PM Okay, most difficult is orange blossom special on jaw harp |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Rick Fielding Date: 22 Oct 99 - 09:44 PM Hey Pete, if you are a Vess Ossman fan, I'm a fan of yours. Drop me a line at rfield@interlog.com |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: _gargoyle Date: 22 Oct 99 - 10:48 PM I thought it was "Rhapsody in Blue" until I attempted "Slaughter on Fifth Avenue." |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: harpgirl Date: 22 Oct 99 - 10:53 PM ...I'm struggling with "Ganglat Fran Mockjfard"... |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: _gargoyle Date: 22 Oct 99 - 11:06 PM And THIS ... on the "autoharp?"
Again...a proposal....
Your "gang" meets my "fifth" out on the avenue?
|
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 22 Oct 99 - 11:32 PM Liam. I am not sure exactly what you are doing--If you are double thumbing on what would be a G chord, and bringing that melody line up the B string to D and back down to an open on the G string, that would be about right--and it rolls along very nicely--You don't really double thumb the part before that, and if you rush thru it, your tempo is off for the next part--if you do a slight hold on the "bought" and "morn" notes, it will set you up nicely for the next part-- (unless you're not playing it that way, in which case, disregard this;-)) |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: j0_77 Date: 22 Oct 99 - 11:43 PM First I admit (blushing even) that I love above all else finger picking Guitar :0) But there is one tune that player I know picks even Doc W has recorded it but darn my socks I just cannot get it to 'go'. Tried everything, Rick may well one day show me (hopes...duh prays) Deep River Blues. Advice for Fiddle beginners is free - *T*H*R*O*W* the stave/sheet music in the trash - get a good traditional teacher and LISTEN real carefully to them and good recordings of REAL trad fiddlers _ there are lots of posers out there $$$$ ya know money, that's why they do it!!!!!!!!!!!!! Use only your fore arm to move the bow- DO NOT TRY TO PLAY LIKE Kenny Baker or Mark OConnor from day one! It will not happen. Notes can confuse and mislead! The notation includes somethings that cannot be done on a Fiddle! In does not include things that are routinely done by every folk fiddler I know of. It is just a way to keep a brief 'map' of a tune. It does not include a bowing even if marked for slurs. Miss Mc Clooods reel. Well the best advice I know is get some bowing for it ( ups downs an slurs ) and learn that well. If you are lucky enough to know a good fiddler who can show a bowing do that. Yuppers about slowing down - in fact unless you are playing 1899900 years it is better to slow everything down. I have big problems in that department. I love to Fake a bar if I cannot get it and carry on as if I had played it. I only get noticed if playing with a group and then it's - hey what you play back there? Soldiers Joy and ummm D A string cross bowing - yup that takes time - My friend here in Oklahoma played fiddle since he was 6 years old - now 76 :0) He plays it really simple and he could make a bunch of extra notes but does not! Taught me a pile of old timey tunes. Soldiers Joy can be a joy to listen to as well --->as in Lagh lagh lagh lagh la la la - 4 L-O-N-G bows 3 Shrt bows and a rest! Soldiers Joy -
|
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: DonMeixner Date: 23 Oct 99 - 12:00 AM Hi all. They are all dificult for me anymore. For me the rhythym is the hardest followed by melody lines. Thats why I'm mainly a vocalist anymore. I can sing most any lines and tongue twisters are my favorite vocal exercise. Flowers of Bermuda is a tough tune. But there are many Phil Ochs songs that are just plain hard to play and sing. Changes and Pleasures of the Harbor are my toughest and some of my favoritest. Don |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: 1979 Date: 23 Oct 99 - 11:12 AM Hello! I thought that we were talking strickly guitar here but now that we are into the juice harp, mandolin, we can bring in the tin whistle, bodhran, and an infinite number of insturments. Fact is they are all hard, maybe we could turn this thread into something that gives suggestions as to how to get over these difficulties. For instance, Blackat, when I'm singing "Rocky Road to Dublin" I often get a good breather on the first lines of the chorus I'm usually sucking it in at "Hunt the hare, and turn her down". The best thign to do is sing it out loud in your house and try breathing at different spots and you'll find what best suits you and then keep those places in mind, if possible wich its probably not, when your out on the tear. |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Rick Fielding Date: 23 Oct 99 - 11:19 AM Hey there Jo 77. Yeah, Deep River Blues is a tough one. I've taught it to a few folks, and it's always satisfying when they get it. (for them AND me) I know a few tricks that can make it easier, but they're hard to put on paper (or computer). If we ever meet up at some kind of festival or gathering, I'll throw my 2 cents worth at you, and we can talk fiddlers. (I, like you have got a few opinions.) Rick |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: j0_77 Date: 23 Oct 99 - 01:18 PM I will be makin plans sooon :0) BTW Best pie I ever ate was in Canada - I have a hankering for some more. |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: WyoWoman Date: 23 Oct 99 - 01:33 PM I'm lurking and loving this thread. All of its hard for me right now, at least instrumentally, because I'm rapidly going nowhere with my guitar playing. Singing is another matter. I find blues harder to sing than any other kind of traditional music. (Probably because of my Mother-the-Music teacher's presence in my head saying, "I can't believe she's using her voice *that* way...) But also because I just don't understand the form of blues, the musical logic of it, I guess. If that makes any sense. (And, of course, with my Southern upbringing, any blues I sing ends up sounding country-blues anyway...) WW |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: M. Ted (inactive) Date: 23 Oct 99 - 03:38 PM There is a whole rhythmic thing that you have to learn to do before blues works--when you get it, you can transfer it over easily to playing guitar or whatever instrument and it opens up a whole world for you-- The best way to learn it is to connect with someone who really performs Jazz or R&B or Gospel(not some earnest character who learned everything note for not from Blind Blake 78's, or one of those Curtis Music School kids who bought "The Real Book" and learned to play a dominant 13 flatted 9th scale to a cocktail beat) and ask them to help you learn a few tunes--In a pinch, rappers are good, too-- If there is no one around you, and it is important to you, it might be worth taking a bus trip to someplace where there is a lot going on and spending a few days with somebody who can teach it-- Since you are a singer, connecting with a gospel choir somewhere might be really good-- |
|
Subject: RE: Most difficult tune or song From: Frankie Date: 23 Oct 99 - 04:06 PM I"m almost embarrassed to admit that it's my nick-namesakes' song, Frankie by MJ Hurt. After a quarter century I still can't quite get it right.. Something about the timing is too tricky, sounds like 5 string banjo or something. Nameless one, Give Me Your Hand is a great tune (played at my wedding) and has some big jumps in the melody. I've made an arrangement for fingerstyle guitar in G (CGDGBE) tuning and you have to start low because it gets high. If you remember who did the vocal version let me know.I'll try to track it down too. Very cool site! F |
| Share Thread: |