It's why people DO go to 'folk clubs'

Subject: RE: It's why people DO go to 'folk clubs'
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 12 Aug 12 - 09:18 PM

Guest,999: Part of newcomers learning the ropes is them finding out if a song they intend to do will conflict with another performer who may have already decided to do that song. I listened to "I'll Fly Away" three times one evening in an hour and a half at an open mike.

Surely it's elementary for someone planning to perform to prepare more songs than they're planning to sing, in case someone else pre-empts one of them? I'm still relatively inexperienced at performing but would never turn up at an event with only as many songs prepared as I thought I'd get time to do. If someone else does one of "my" songs before I get a chance to do it, I just switch to another. The only time I can recall this failing was when I turned up half-way through a singaround due to various delays and was told (afterwards) that the (quite obscure) song I'd just done had in fact been done earlier by someone else.

Subject: RE: It's why people DO go to 'folk clubs'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 13 Aug 12 - 02:56 AM

I find it a bit odd if one person does a particular song - then another says - Ah but have you heard the Scottish version and does it, then a third says, yes but what about he American version and does it - ALL before we can do our planned version (a different English version) of it!

Once upon a time "manners" dictated that if you knew another singer had been doing a song, you would not do that song (a) on his home turf or (b) where he was present. This did I think increase the variety of songs one might hear. Certainly I'd be headed for the bar at the start of the second "I'll fly away".

Subject: RE: It's why people DO go to 'folk clubs'
From: Musket
Date: 13 Aug 12 - 03:29 AM

Why do I go to folk clubs?

Recapturing a lost youth I suppose. Oh, and everybody likes applause. Seriously.

Subject: RE: It's why people DO go to 'folk clubs'
From: The Sandman
Date: 13 Aug 12 - 03:32 AM

Tootler, frequently they do not make a good job of it, because they do not know the song well.
for a trained actor the situation is different he/she has acquired a reading and interpreting skill, most floorsingers reading from words do not have that skill,I have come across one or two exceptions.
is it acceptable for paid guests to have words? if it is not , then it could be argued that the same standard could be applied to floor singers.
another point against floor singers having words is that it creates a small barrier between them and the audience.
part of the skill of performing [in my opinion]is the abilty to ad lib if there is a temporary memory lapse

Subject: RE: It's why people DO go to 'folk clubs'
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Aug 12 - 04:11 AM

Just what I was going to say Dick !! Apart from the inherent Lack of Politeness in CREATING a barrier (The Bloody Book) between the singr and the audience .
I have NO problem with an experienced singer having the lyrics of a NEW song (to them) available as an Aide Memoire when they are working on new material .
When EVERY floor singer is using a book , it certainly encourages me NOT to bother going back to that club .

Subject: RE: It's why people DO go to 'folk clubs'
From: Vic Smith
Date: 13 Aug 12 - 04:39 PM

When did this awful business of people turning up at folk clubs offering to read the audience a song begin? It certainly was not the case way back when..... I suppose it is OK in singarounds where no money is changing hands, but surely it should not be the case when an audience is paying admission. How can you engage and audience and sing with expression if you cannot even remember the words?

Subject: RE: It's why people DO go to 'folk clubs'
From: Leadfingers
Date: 13 Aug 12 - 07:32 PM

Vic - Its imported from USA . I have been at Singarounds in USA where Sing Out is held by nearly every body - The song title and page number are given , and everybody sings 'from the book' .
This is NOT the same way that the 'Good' pro and Semi Pro singers perform , just the less experienced .

Subject: RE: It's why people DO go to 'folk clubs'
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 05:17 AM

I strongly suspect that many of the people who sing from the book, in clubs and singarounds, desperately want to perform but are not prepared to put an appropriate amount of effort in. Many of them seem to be followers of that insulting, ignorant and pernicious 'philosophy': "It's good enough for folk".

Subject: RE: It's why people DO go to 'folk clubs'
From: GUEST,Don Wise
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 12:50 PM

As an aside, no self-respecting busker would be seen dead singing or playing from a crib sheet.......unless of course they're playing classical music.

Don

Subject: RE: It's why people DO go to 'folk clubs'
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 02:42 PM

Seattle's first "Song Circle" started in summer of 1977. The whole idea was that a whole bunch of people would get together and, size of room allowing, would sit in a circle or some approximation thereof.

Someone would start off. They would sing a song or ballad. Or they would lead a chorus song, such as a sea chantey and others would chime in at the appropriate times. Or they could request that someone else in the circle sing something. Then, the "IT" position would move to the next person in the circle, moving either clockwise or counterclockwise, and they would have the same options: sing solo, lead a song, or request something from someone else, or they could pass. And so around the circle.

This was a most enjoyable way to spend a couple of hours on a Sunday evening, which is when the Seattle Song Circle met. Sally Ashford, with peoples' permission, taped the sessions (as did several of us; I have about thirty cassette tapes of these evenings, containing some really great stuff!!) and self-published a song book containing words and music (Sally knows music and has a good ear) complete with annotations as to who sang what.

We got so good a singing chanteys that the whole group was invited to sing on the deck of an old schooner (the Wawona) during the Moss Bay Sail and Chantey Festival where she was moored in Moss Bay on Lake Washington, along with several other historical ships. We sang a bunch of chanteys in their natural habitat while a crew of Coast Guardsmen raised and lowered the sails (periodic check of the tackle to make sure everything still worked properly), and I got a chance to sing some fo'c'sle chanteys in a genuine fo'c'sle!

Then something came up and Barbara and I were unable to attend Song Circle for a couple of years. When we returned, we found the whole character of the group had changed. Drastically!

Many of the "old guard" were no longer there. And the new people came laden with song books and crib sheets. As we sat there listening and waiting for our turn to come up, we were treated to people who stumbled their way through some song they didn't know and were reading it out of one of their stack of books. And traditional songs were not a main item on the menu. We heard a lot of songs by Jacques Brel.

Our attendance was pretty sporadic from then on.

Then we heard that "The Blue Book" (Rise Up Singing) was the official "hymnal" of the Seattle Song Circle, and people sat around singing out of it.

For some strange reason, we lost interest. As, apparently the original Song Circle members did also.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: It's why people DO go to 'folk clubs'
From: Don Firth
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 02:46 PM

There are still "hoots" and song fests around Seattle and environs. But people are frisked at the door, and any song books or crib sheets are confiscated for the duration of the song fest.

Don Firth

Subject: RE: It's why people DO go to 'folk clubs'
From: Leadfingers
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 04:49 PM

Don - I often think that frisking at the door would be a good idea over here now ! Except I would probably have my Banjo impounded !!

Subject: RE: It's why people DO go to 'folk clubs'
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 14 Aug 12 - 07:47 PM

Vic: When did this awful business of people turning up at folk clubs offering to read the audience a song begin?

Dunno, but I find it irritating. Usually, the book or sheet is either held right in front of the face, absorbing about 50% of the vocal output, or placed on a table so that the singer has to sing into the floor, again reducing the output to a mumble.

I'm a relative newcomer to these kinds of events. I guess I probably know about 30 songs well enough to sing them with a reasonable level of confidence that I won't forget the words or accompaniment (but I still occasionally get a brain fart and forget something). I know at least the same number of songs again *less well* and wouldn't consider inflicting these on an audience until I'm confident that I won't forget them.

I was worse when I first started playing/ singing in public, as I'd often wheel a song out "before it was ready". ie: I had it down "pat" at home, but not "pat enough" for public performance. It took a while for me to realise that you need to have a song down to a level where you know it *unconsciously* before you should perform it in public.

Subject: RE: It's why people DO go to 'folk clubs'
From: SunrayFC
Date: 15 Aug 12 - 04:01 PM

I feel I should say something...