Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?

Subject: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Nick
Date: 09 Oct 12 - 07:28 AM

Latest bee in my bonnet...

How much does an £18 ticket to a gig cost?

I went to see Walter Trout last night (and very enjoyable he was too) and will be going to see Frank Vignola on Wednesday (for £10). But I realised how difficult it is to actually buy them for the advertised price.

In both cases the only way to do it is to go to the venue and buy them in advance in cash which is often not possible or practical.

In the end I spent £20 on the door in cash as it was the cheapest option (I can understand that paying on the night is less good for the venue as there is a certainty in knowing who is coming and paid in advance etc and they need to have a highly skilled person on the door with the ability to know what money looks like etc). On line via TicketWeb it comes up with the £18 ticket PLUS the £1 booking fee for the inconvenience of having to ask for it when you get there. You then go to check out and IT'S GONE UP ANOTHER £2.16 for a service charge. So my £18 ticket is actually a £21.16 ticket). Which is a 17.56% rise on the advertised price.

Perhaps it's just me - one arm of the family is Scots with Yorkshire bits - but it annoys me a little and doesn't seem to benefit anyone but the ticket folk

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: WindhoverWeaver
Date: 09 Oct 12 - 07:56 AM

Why there would be a booking fee and a service charge, I do not get. One or the other is, I suppose, reasonable; After all, the booking site needs to make money to stay in business. The alternative would be for the promoter to add that charge into the ticket cost and pay the agent directly, but then that would hit everyone, not just those using the booking site.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: bradfordian
Date: 09 Oct 12 - 08:05 AM

I got exactly the same issue with our ROBIN HOOD BEER FESTIVAL.
Advance Ticket + 8% booking fee + £1.50 transaction fee, so a £10 ticket ends up as £12.30. Whats the difference between a person sat at a computer terminal and a person in a booth on the day? Ans: company makes more money cos they don't have to pay the person in the booth now!

bradfordian

Think I'll just pop round to my local store, they have just stocked up on PUMPKIN Beer!

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 09 Oct 12 - 08:36 AM

Ans: company makes more money cos they don't have to pay the person in the booth now!

I bought some arena tickets through the UK TicketMaster site the other week and was vaguely discombobulated by the ticket delivery options.

For just over £2 I could have the tickets sent to me by post. Or, for just over £2.50 I could have the tickets emailed as a PDF and print them out myself to bring to the venue.

So if I pay for the paper and I pay for the printer ink, and the same employee on the same door at the same venue uses the same barcode reader to read the ticket I printed off as they would do on the ticket they printed and sent me through the post ... that costs me more?

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Leadfingers
Date: 09 Oct 12 - 08:44 AM

Its all down to Sod's Law , which states quite categorically " Thou Shalt Not Bloody Well Win!"

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 09 Oct 12 - 09:08 AM

wegottickets don't seem to be too bad, as things go.

I think they charge a £2 booking fee, which is how they make their money.

So if I'm organising an event, I price tickets accordingly: at £3 less than they do on the door. So the punter pays, in total, £1 less than they would if they just turned up on the night.

I'm surprised to hear about such a big discrepancy for advance tickets: they're normally cheaper, as a buying-early incentive!

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: TopcatBanjo
Date: 09 Oct 12 - 10:48 AM

I completely agree about the whole rip-off industry that has built up around ticket buying, and would second the opinion that Wegottickets are the best I've found when you have to use an agency to get hold of event tickets.

Their fee is actually 10% (not £2) so for instance a £9 ticket would have a 90p fee added, or 2 x £15 tickets would have £3 added. Their system is that you gain entrance by quoting your reference number (whether you want to print the confirmation or just write it on a bit of paper or whatever) so there are no postage charges. I use them whenever possible, and most of the small, intimate gigs I go to use them as at least one of the agency options.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 09 Oct 12 - 11:02 AM

ah, right. I didn't know that. (and I've used them at several events I've organised! Shows just what a pro I am!)

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: John Routledge
Date: 09 Oct 12 - 11:04 AM

+1 for Wegottickets.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: GUEST,DTM
Date: 09 Oct 12 - 01:58 PM

I don't go to anything that involves giving Ticketmaster (and their likes) one penny. Screw them - they're not screwing me.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Nick
Date: 09 Oct 12 - 03:48 PM

But should the gig be a little more straightforward? Perhaps quote the ticket price

as

£18 + taxes?

Or whatever.

Out of annoyance I nearly didn't go the gig and that can be no good for the venue or the artist - especially the artist on whatever deal they are booked in

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Nick
Date: 09 Oct 12 - 03:52 PM

By the way - there is still a person in the booth. You are right - usually it is a man.

Usually on a deal that suits all. £x and you get to listen to the music for free and spend your £(x+y)over the bar which is okish?

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: MoorleyMan
Date: 09 Oct 12 - 04:50 PM

This is all getting insidious. It's virtually stopped me going to ticket-only gigs, wherever a booking fee or surcharge is involved. It's a matter of principle, not to mention that no part of either fee actually goes to the artists themselves... And the more the agencies get away with this practice the more they will do so. No wonder gig audiences are declining...
Sorry for the rant... but it has to be said.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 09 Oct 12 - 05:15 PM

I always allow people to reserve tickets for payment on the door. No additional fee. I very seldom get let down as people appreciate the fact that they can reserve and can pay on the door.

I agree it is a rip off to have to pay extra costs if they quote a ticket price.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: GUEST,Banjiman
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 05:01 AM

I'm with Arthur....... people can reserve and pay on the door for any gig we put on.

Or they can pay in advance via PayPal....... my gig fund takes the hit on the costs of doing this. But it is worth it to actually be able to advertise advance tickets at their real price.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: JHW
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 06:23 AM

I certainly do not believe in paying more for a ticket than it's listed price. This is a similar con to restaurants who claim that service is not included.
Playwrights, composers, actors, musicians, stage electricians, set designers etc. etc. flyer printers, ice cream sellers, usherettes! ALL HAVE TO BE PAID and there is no earthly reason why ticket sellers should be paid extraordinarily.
The relatively trivial cost of selling the ticket should be included in the ticket price.
When I book B&B with Laterooms and the like, the cost of their marketing and service is borne by the Hotel out of the advertised cost of the room. Laterooms do not charge me anything.
So should it be with tickets for events.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 06:43 AM

"Playwrights, composers, actors, musicians, stage electricians, set designers etc. etc. flyer printers, ice cream sellers, usherettes! ALL HAVE TO BE PAID and there is no earthly reason why ticket sellers should be paid extraordinarily.
The relatively trivial cost of selling the ticket should be included in the ticket price."

yes, but... it's all much of a muchness when I, as a promoter, know how much the ticket vendor I use will charge. I could quote "£7.70 advance (including booking fee)" or I could quote "£7 advance (not including 70p booking fee)". But either would be still cheaper than "£9 on the door".

That cut is all that wegottickets are charging for vending tickets for my show. That's not being paid "extraordinarily", it's just... being paid. Sure, it's not going to me or the artists but ... it's their website and they're not charging me anything for selling my tickets for me! The punter saves £1 off the ticket price and knows that he/she has a ticket and doesn't need to worry about queuing up for an event that might sell out. What's not to like?

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 09:16 AM

"I could quote "£7 advance (not including 70p booking fee)". But either would be still cheaper than "£9 on the door"

The price I charge for a ticket reserved for payment on the door is exactly the same as when you turn up on the door. I think the practice of saying £7 if you by before and £9 on the door is salso not the right thing. By allowing people to reserve up front allows them to know they will get in. People turning up at the door may not get in. Howveer the price should be the same.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 09:54 AM

well it's of course your right to do whatever you like.
But personally , it's not a moral issue at all: for me, there's no "should" or "should not" about it; it's simply a question of what works.

I actually think that it is far more fair and congenial to reward someone for having the courtesy of buying a ticket in advance with a reduction in ticket price: that's a commitment to the success of the event.

I know at least one folk promoter that would consider cancelling an event if they felt they had sold worryingly few advance tickets. I also know that if I am promising a visiting musician from America a minimum of £250 I quite literally cannot afford to have too many unknown factors with regard to how out of pocket I might end up being.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: GUEST,Desi C
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 11:17 AM

I honstly think this is a crooked way of selling tickets, and I believe we should boycot venues and artists who use this method. Simply go back to the old fashioned way of booking direct with a venue by phone or tickets on the door only. They'll soon drop theses awful non fan friendly methods

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 11:27 AM

There again, most folkies would baulk at spending more than £2.50 on an evenng of music...

Seriously though, it's all a matter of degree. Wegottickets is not Ticketmaster. Personally I've always been happy with the former. Won't buy tickets from the latter.

The other issue is organised touting by ticket agencies...

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 11:33 AM

I'm a fan, and I find wegottickets perfectly fan-friendly. I like buying stuff over the internet.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 03:29 PM

Matt I very often spend a darn sight more than £250.

My regulars get reserved every time before I sell to other people. So I do not need to up the ticket price for people walking up to the door.

I beleive that to be fair and I always see people walking up to the door as future regulars. I want to look after them, not do them.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 04:28 PM

You reap what you sow.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Nick
Date: 10 Oct 12 - 07:13 PM

But the best £10 I have spent in a long time tonight - one of the very best guitarists I have ever seen live. Frank Vignola. if you are near Whitstable I believe he is playing there tomorrow and then Bedford and London.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 06:34 AM

"I beleive that to be fair and I always see people walking up to the door as future regulars. I want to look after them, not do them."

But I don't put on regular nights. I put on concerts now and again at different venues.

How is it "doing" anyone to elect to price advance tickets cheaper than on the door? I'm not forcing anyone to buy those , er, cheaper tickets. (And surely I'm not alone in noting the absurdity of that sentence?!!)

To anyone grumbling about a perceived "unfairness" in on-the-door prices being higher, I would ask in return "why exactly do you have a problem with buying a ticket in advance? Is it perchance because it commits you to attending the event?" I've got to say, put up or shut up: what is the specific motivation for not buying a ticket? I can't really think of any reasons, beyond the obvious: you're not sure if you actually want or are able to go. I see buying a ticket as an act of commitment. Can anyone tell me it's not?

The absurdity of this debate becomes clear when you factor in the fact that my on-the-door ticket price might well be substantially cheaper the event on the next night at the same venue! Or most other events taking place around London.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: JHW
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 06:37 AM

Matt Milton
In my comment 'there is no earthly reason why ticket sellers should be paid extraordinarily' by extraordinarily I intended to mean outside of the ticket price.

I remain convinced that all of the costs of putting on the show should be included in the ticket price and that includes the cost of selling the ticket.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 07:19 AM

JHW, that simply makes it a hidden not an explicit cost. And most small promoters haven't got the set up to arrange online ticket sales themselves, which is why they use agencies. Do you expect those agencies to work for free?

Arthuritus, whilst your approach may work for you (and no-one is trying to make you stop doing it), I think it's totally uncalled for to pan people for offering a discount for buying a ticket in advance. You choose not to offer that discount, even though it's common practice and has been for years. Were I to use equally emotive language to yours, I could argue its you who are 'doing' the fans. However, I'm not going to.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 07:25 AM

When you say:
"the costs of putting on the show should be included in the ticket price and that includes the cost of selling the ticket."

how is a promoter supposed to account for the fact that if the tickets are available through multiple outlets, the price will be different?

I'd quickly run out of space on my flier if I said "£5 in advance/£7 on the door, but £5.50 in advance if bought from wegottickets, £8 in advance if bought through ticketmaster, £7 in advance if bought through folkgigsuk, £15 in advance if bought from some dodgy tout outside the tube down the road from the venue" etc etc

I mean, you're right in that it is really annoying when the more piss-takey outlets (like ticketmaster by the looks of it) add an absurd booking fee.

But with wegottickets, the fee is minimal, so really all you have to complain about is the 30 second time discrepancy between being informed that the ticket price is not £7 but £7.70. And, when you consider that that is all wegottickets are taking, and that in a pre-internet age you'd still have paid a minimum of 25p to have your tickets delivered, well...

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 09:27 AM

Our ceilidh series has a cheaper price if you pay (them) in advance. They used to give you the same discount if you rang and reserved tickets and paid at the door but now they will reserve tickets (until 15 minutes after start time) but no discount unless paid for. Which sounds fair to me - just phoning to reserve a ticket only means that you intend to come, not that you really will.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Nick
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 02:42 PM

I have no issue at all with people charging a differential price for on the night or not. The more that people buy in advance the less money needs spending on new brown trousers.

I didn't raise it to have a go at people I know work enormously hard organising stuff - like on this site.

It's similar to the annoyance someone recently said trying to balance airport deals - is the 0.01p deal with the £198 taxes worse than the etc etc.

A little hover over bit of Javasrcipt or something that even someone like me could create would be clearer. It's the last £2.16 that got me. Not the £18. Or the £1.

It's the bit that goes - OK? Checkout...

EXTRA MONEY I DIDN'T TELL YOU ABOUT BEFORE

There is nothing to stop Ticket Web from being able to display not only the £1 charge but ALSO the £2.16 charge or whatever it is.

One seems straightforward and the other seems sneaky. Sort of - 'you've got this far so you might as well give me a couple of £'s extra because you've got this far' and (evererybody else probably does it as well; whether thay do or they don't)

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Nick
Date: 11 Oct 12 - 02:44 PM

In fact I thik I'll write to the Guardian now...

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 07:54 AM

Well I get between 60 to 100 each concert, so it clearly works for me. 100 is the maximum I can get in. People who reserve, always attend, unless they are ill or a beravement or something liek that occurs. I wouldn't want their money in such a situation.

Each to their own.

Many people today, tend to make their mind up a few days before.

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 08:57 AM

When you say:
"the costs of putting on the show should be included in the ticket price and that includes the cost of selling the ticket."
how is a promoter supposed to account for the fact that if the tickets are available through multiple outlets, the price will be different?
I'd quickly run out of space on my flier if I said "£5 in advance/£7 on the door, but £5.50 in advance if bought from wegottickets, £8 in advance if bought through ticketmaster, £7 in advance if bought through folkgigsuk, £15 in advance if bought from some dodgy tout outside the tube down the road from the venue" etc etc

How about trying:

The price of a ticket is £10, no matter how you buy it.
1, If you buy from me early, I get the full £10, you know you've got a place, and you know I've got the full payment.
2, If you buy through a ticket agent, then that reduces the payment I get, because I discount my charges to them to prevent them adding a premium. I do this because they do increase the sales of tickets, and increase the chance of giving the performer a full audience. (I'd rather not, but that's the way the cookie crumbles)
3, If you buy at the door, it's still £10- but you risk getting turned away, because if I relied on 'on the door' sales I'd have no idea of the expected numbers.

Okay, I don't put on gigs, but the above seems reasonable to me (as a consumer). I'd rather know the money was going to the club putting on the show, rather than benefitting some middle-man (although that may be a necessary 'evil')

Subject: RE: Ticket for gig:how much is a £10 ticket?
From: Arthur_itus
Date: 12 Oct 12 - 11:14 AM

Agreed Nigel