Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk

Subject: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 07:32 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/mediacentre/latestnews/2012/mark-radcliffe-adds-folk-to-radio-2-roster.html

see above. seems Mark Radcliffe is taking over Mike Harding's BBC Radio 2 folk show.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 07:39 AM

I like Radcliffe, never listened to Harding.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 07:45 AM

That's excellent news.

I like Mark Radcliffe a lot, but never hated Harding in the way many here do.

How long before the "Mark Radcliffe is crap" posts start?

Lord knows what we'll get when he takes over the programme...

Gasp, he likes 'pop music'

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Silas
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 07:48 AM

Terrible decision - bloody mad.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 07:49 AM

I've never ben mad about folk on Radio 2, but Mike Harding has a long track record of enjoying folk music and contributing to the scene. I am not too familiar with Mark Radcliffe: has he any interest in folk music, for example?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 07:51 AM

Mike Harding - sang in Folk Clubs for years, sang trad songs and others, played all sorts of instruments, wrote some great songs, was very, very funny. Knows loads and loads about folk in all it's forms, knows loads and loads of folkie people and is widely respected by most. Is a brilliant promoter and enthusiast for all things folk.

He will be a very hard act to follow.

Love MR - great broadcaster - love his eclectic take on music - will we folkies be happy when we have heard hos programmes?

L in C#

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Mavis Enderby
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 07:56 AM

Blue Clicky

Well, I like both. Best wishes to Mike and good luck to Mark.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: theleveller
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:04 AM

They should bring back Ralph McTell - he was superb.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Johnny J
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:06 AM

Actually, I like listening to Mark but I feel that a specialist show also requires specialist expertise.
Instead of engaging a "personality" presenter with the aim of attracting more listeners to the folk programme itself, would it not be a better idea to encourage Mark and other Radio Two presenters to play more folk music on regular mainstream programmes?

"specialist expertise"
Yes, I do realise that they didn't get this with Harding either! There used to be a time though..e.g. Jim Lloyd etc.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,JohnnyBeezer(Where's my cookie)?
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:08 AM

I guess Radcliffe has got the gig on the back of his Cambridge Folk Festival chops?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Romania Totale X1V
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:09 AM

New broom . Should irk the purists.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: alex s
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:10 AM

Phil Beer's the man for this job!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:22 AM

Mark Radcliffe knows his stuff and should be an interesting choice to take over from Mike Harding.

The linked article doesn't say - is the programme still produced by Smooth Operations?

And I know this is a radical suggestion for Mudcat, but how about we actually listen to a few programmes before deciding whether it's crap or not? I'm old enough to remember Jim Lloyd leaving, and the Chicken Licken response that got ...

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:25 AM

"but how about we actually listen to a few programmes before deciding whether it's crap or not? "

Xlnt, but no chance

L in C#

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:31 AM

"The linked article doesn't say - is the programme still produced by Smooth Operations?"

I'd be very surprised if not - smooth ops produce all of Mark Radcliffe's other radio programmes

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:33 AM

Maybe Mark will be a smoother operator.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Silas
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:34 AM

The question is just why they felt that MH was no longer the man for the job? I can't see any sensible answer to that one.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Bernard
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:36 AM

Mark is a highly respected folk performer in his own right - look for 'The Family Mahone' on YouTube, for example...

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:40 AM

"The question is just why they felt that MH was no longer the man for the job? I can't see any sensible answer to that one."

Well it's not inconceivable that Mike Harding might simply not have wanted to do it anymore... you'd have to be a Radio 2/Smooth Ops insider to know the answer to that one.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Bernard
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:43 AM

On Facebook Mike is saying he was given no choice...

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:44 AM

I reckon a double act between Mike Harding and Mark Radcliffe - including a doubling of the length of the show, would be top. And MR is a long term folk fan. It would be a shame to lose MH though. He has a lovely radio manner. And he likes Sproatly Smith...

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:50 AM

I wonder how many of the posters to this thread actually listen to the show?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:51 AM

Mark Radcliffe has been on the radio for a long while now. He is a music enthusiast, and has always tried to provide interesting music on shows he has presented. Some people will like his personality and others will almost certainly hate him.
As for credentials, he has been the singer with The Family Mahone, a band in the style of The Pogues (At Cropredy - Radcliffe is in the white jacket and straw hat).
He has also presented shows from the Cambridge Folk Festival for a number of years.
On his non-folk radio shows, he regularly has played folk music, and also had folkies in the studio for chat and live songs. I seem to recall hearing Gary and Vera Aspey on one occasion and Bernard Wrigley on another.
His general attitude to presenting is somewhat irreverent, but he has a sound knowledge and love of music.
I think he will do a good job of it.
Quack!
Geoff the Duck.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:53 AM

The BBC sacked Mike Harding....

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 08:53 AM

I guess the Smooth Operations Christmas party will be slightly awkward this year.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: alex s
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 09:58 AM

"I wonder how many of the posters to this thread actually listen to the show?"

I would guess most, if not all

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,chris
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 10:07 AM

I hope MR stops umming and er ering and learns to speak coherently
chris

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 10:17 AM

Smoothie Chops are only trying to raise the profile of the programme, and attract more listeners. If in the process of dointg so, they attract more people to folk music, then surely it's not a bad idea.
Still sad to see MH go though, he's like an old mate, as I seem to have seen and heard him around the folk scene forever.
Who can ever forget Napoleon's Retreat from Blackburn?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Silas
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 10:21 AM

You John, obviously - it was Wigan

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Girl Friday
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 10:36 AM

Geoff the Duck has said what I was going to say about Mark Radcliffe, and I think he will be good at the job, but why has Mike Harding been sacked? No mention of it on the BBC website that I can see. I have yet to peruse Facebook though.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 10:41 AM

Mike Harding has NOT been sacked. His contract is ending and he hasn't been offered a new one for this slot. Big difference.

Don't believe everything Lizzie Cornish says...

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 11:19 AM

Like I said Silas, who can forget it ;)





Well; obviously I can

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,JohnnyBeezer
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 11:20 AM

'I hope MR stops umming and er ering and learns to speak coherently'
It seems to me Chris,that Mark has based a lot of his 'Chat' on John Peel's idiosyncratic delivery.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Ricardo
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 12:05 PM

Given folk music's current relative popularity (you even get 'folk' hours on Sky channels VH1 and Vintage, though they rarely venture far from Mumfords, Enya and Simon and Garfunkel) surely there could be room for two folk programmes in Radio 2's weekly line-up? One maybe looking at the more traditional side of things, the other more contemporary (though obviously many acts would fit into both categories)? As things stand, it still seems a bit tokenistic.

For what it's worth, I consider Mark Radcliffe to be the finest radio DJ of his generation, but I'm not sure I'd have picked him out as a folk DJ. Still, it could have been Zoe Ball I suppose.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 12:29 PM

According to Mike's Facebook page he didn't exactly choose to go. Ending a contract, sacking. The end result is the same.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Morris-ey
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 12:38 PM

Presumably it was Smooth Ops that did not renew the contract, not BBC?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 12:53 PM

This is a joke!
Have you seen this guy on the Cambridge Folk Festival TV shows?
His ignorance of all things folk is embarrassing!
Every time he opens his mouth, he demonstrates, not what he knows about folk music, but rather what he doesn't know!
The BBC should be ashamed!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Bernard
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 02:00 PM

I know Mark Radcliffe personally, and have a great respect for his wide and extensive folk knowledge. Those who choose to slag him off before they really get to know him should just wait and see.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Yvonne
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 02:03 PM

Well said Les in Chorlton.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Reinhard
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 02:27 PM

The Guardian: BBC Radio 2 folk DJ Mike Harding hits out at boss after sacking

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 02:31 PM

Bernard, if you think Mark as a "wide and extensive folk knowledge", why does he demonstrate his an blatant lack of a "wide and extensive folk knowledge" on the Cambridge Folk Festival Tv shows?

I know lots of people don't like Harding, but - as has been said - he's a terrific performer with over 40 years of accumulated folk music knowledge.

P.S. I wonder if Mike will now reveal what went on "behind the scenes" of the radio show?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: johncharles
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 02:34 PM

It does not seem a great way to treat a longstanding and well respected broadcaster. I suppose that is show business for you.
john

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,davemc
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 03:09 PM

Glad something's changed about the programme. Got bored with it a long time ago. Will give the new version a listen. Mike Harding had a good innings and doesn't suit everyone.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 03:27 PM

I wish someone would now replace Paul Jones on the Radio 2 blues hour, Monday evenings. He's been at it for over 25 years now - staid and unexciting.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 03:41 PM

Yes, I'm all for fresh blood, but the correct fresh blood!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Western Suze
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 05:04 PM

Think about how much worse it could have been. When Jim Lloyd retired at the same time as his wife Frances Line retired as Radio 2 controller, it's on the record that the BBC had a final short list of two for the replacement: Smooth Operations with Mike Harding as presenter, and the existing BBC Pebble Mill team with Ian Anderson as presenter, who had just finished a 12 year run on the BBC World Service. People who read Folk Roots or have encountered Anderson's bizarre "Rough Guide To English Folk" CD will know how lucky we are to have avoided that alternative.

It's lucky that Mr Folk Roots hasn't been heard of for years, but I think they should give it now to somebody like Sam Lee who knows everything about folk instead of another ancient northerner.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Ebor_Fiddler
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 06:14 PM

I'm sorry, but I'd never heard of Mr Radcliffe until tonight. What "folk" credetials has he? Does he come out of the performing side or is he some sort of fan?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 06:24 PM

I'm looking forward to hearing Mark Radcliffe. Emma Hartley predicted changes to the Folk Awards - is this the first?

Incidentally, Count Arthur Strong's Radio Show! is produced by John Leonard and Mark Radcliffe. It's a Smooth Operations production with Komedia Entertainment.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: greg stephens
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 06:38 PM

I used to like Tony Capstick

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 06:45 PM

Suze - what's wrong with Northerners?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 07:44 PM

Arthur Stong, the prat who put the 'o' on Count.
Can't abide him at any price.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Dave MacKenzie
Date: 17 Oct 12 - 07:44 PM

I was talking to Mark last Thursday, and he never mentioned Folk on Two (not in the same way that he didn't mention Jimmy Saville). I'd say that if you think that Mark doesn't know what he's talking about, then you just don't get his sense of humour.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:00 AM

Mark is brilliant, he isn't Mike - Mike is brilliant in many ways that I think most folkies recognise and like.

Les

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Western Suze
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:01 AM

S Cringe : nothing her se, but it has rather been the Northern'n'Celtic show for the past decade or however long Harding has been at t'helm. It would be nice if south-of-Birmingham got more of a look in. Mainly though I think it would be nice if somebody in say their 30s or 40s got it rather than another person who will constantly hark back to the old days. It can't always stay aimed at the upper end of Radio 2s demographic. Harding thinks everything he plays is always "cracking" but that might be from osteoporosis.

Subject: Mike Harding axed by the Beeb
From: Acorn4
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:01 AM

Just heard that Mike Harding's show has joined the list of radio casualties - it's now only a few people like Genevieve Tudor of Radio Shropshire left flying any kind of flag for folk music - otherwise it's now just down to the independent stations.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding axed by the Beeb
From: Acorn4
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:02 AM

Sorry,, just seen the duplicate thread which appeared a nanosecond before I posted!

Subject: RE: Mike Harding axed by the Beeb
From: Dead Horse
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:04 AM

Has he been caught fiddling with jelly tots??????

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Chris B (Born Again Scouser)
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:26 AM

I have to agree with whoever said that Radcliffe's presentation of the Cambridge Folk Festival shows isn't an indicator of good things. Mind you, the whole tone of those shows isn't something I enjoy. There's an air of desperation about them, as if someone has decided that folk music needs re-branding by using 'celebrities' like Zoe Ball and Stephen Mangan. In any case radio is a very different medium from television and stuttering and waving your arms around doesn't work very well as a means of communication on the radio. We shall see, I suppose.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding axed by the Beeb
From: GUEST,BobL
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:28 AM

Perhaps he's planning to enjoy a well-earned retirement - he's of the age!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:44 AM

I will miss him playing his guitar along as he reads out the charts. A top bloke & all round good egg - and his photography ain't bad either.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding axed by the Beeb
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 05:28 AM

i wonder what they axed him??

How many mintballs has Uncle Joe got? The meaning of life? Should Prince Harry keep making videos of his willy, or should he just leave it out? (I've wondered that myself)

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 06:22 AM

"I will miss him playing his guitar along as he reads out the charts."

Last time I listened (which was, I admit, several years ago) it was Martin Simpson playing.

"south-of-Birmingham"

Don't you fall off the edge of the world. Here be dragons!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,raymond greenoaken
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 06:58 AM

Here be irony, too!

It was Nic Jones, of course...

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:10 AM

Dave Eyre who presents the Sheffield Live folk programme would be my choice,although his political views are questionable

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: The Borchester Echo
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:10 AM

Last time I heard the programme (admittedly several years ago) he used to read the charts over Planxty Davis which was some kind of sop to get a few pennies of royalties to the Jones family. Would that the BBC had ever lifted a finger to help resolve the big issue.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:12 AM

Mark Radcliffe is credited with saying that Mike Harding is a friend (see Guardian and Daily Telegraph reports). If that is so and the first M.H. knew of this decision was the first and only phone call from Bob Shennan, then so much for friendship. M.R. must have been approached and agreed to the posting long before the announcement. He could at least advised M.H. this was on the cards.

      Also , I read the BBC is wishing to have "a presenter with less traditional tastes", "to bring folk music into the mainstream" and "bring folk to a wider audience". I don`t believe it`s the BBC`s remit to do these things. Rather it should give a fair sample of everything and let the public choose for itself. Where will the listener of "traditional tastes" get his or her pleasure?. Does it mean that we are to be fed a diet of very competent, multi tracked, multi-instrumental, studio constructed productions of songs and tunes, sold to the "wider public audience" under the guise of folk music? I sincerely hope not.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:16 AM

"It was Nic Jones, of course..."

Of course, it was! Memory's going the same way as the hearing!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Chris Cole.
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:24 AM

Absolutely, Steve. Mark does know his stuff. I think he's a great choice. If R2 wants to bring folk music to a wider audience, he's the man to do it. He's also an excellent presenter-I've followed his career since hosted "Hit The North " on radio five live.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,chris cole
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:26 AM

well said, Bernard!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,ian
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 07:51 AM

How many of the contributors here have listened recently? The Planxty Davis played over charts stopped years ago.
As a regular listener, I think it's definitely time for a change. Mike does a fair job but his aphorisms grate after hearing them week after week - grubby little mitts, one of the best ever, etc. Mark Radcliffe is an interesting choice, and I look forward to giving him a chance.
Regardless of who hosts it, a Radio 2 folk programme is guaranteed to plough the middle of the road. T'internet is the place to hear more radical stuff.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 08:06 AM

It will turn into a pop music show before 12 months are out.

Mike Harding ' too traditional ? ' he vastly increased the listening figures by playing more pop/rock/country music, not by playing traditional music.

He's the man who asked The Corrs if they planned to do any more traditional CDs who replied ' we don't do traditional ' why they were on his show in the first place is a mystery.

Having said all that, I saw him many times in folk clubs and he was brilliant, a great instrumentalist, singer, comedian and a really good songwriter, and I think the BBC have treated him very shabbily, sacking him over the phone seems at best cowardly to me.

Mike, Martin Carthy, Ralph McTell, none of them half as good as Jim Lloyd.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 08:36 AM

Oh dear, such weedy laughter ensued, re the south o' Brum post. This morning on Footstompin' someone was complaining the show is Anglocentric, and hoping Mark Radcliffe will put that to rights.
As I pointed out, Smoothie Chops will still be the programme makers, and beholden to the Beeb for their patronage. So my guess is, not that much will change.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 08:42 AM

Last time I heard the programme (admittedly several years ago) he used to read the charts over Planxty Davis

Well, bang goes that illusion! I always had this vision of MH sitting in the studio with his guitar, casually noodling along as he rapped the charts by the dim glow of a VU meter. Shows how much I know, eh? Not a lot when it comes to folkie guitar heroes I admit - though I once saw Nic Jones at the Davy Lamp in Washington and it was a top night out. And I just adore his quintessentially English folk-fiddling on Merlin's Isle.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: theleveller
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 08:58 AM

"Oh dear, such weedy laughter ensued, re the south o' Brum post."

That puts me pretty much on a par with Mike Harding, then :)

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 09:21 AM

I'd be interested to know how Smooth Operations worked with the Beeb in instances like this.

I mean, would it have been that the BBC powers-that-be would have approached the Smooth-Operations powers that be and said "we're a bit bored with this Mike Harding chap, got any suggestions who you could replace him with?". to which SmoothOps would have said "hmmm, how about our Mark Radcliffe?".

I mean, is it that "THE RADIO 2 FOLK SHOW" simply MUST be run by Smooth Operations - and therefore that any presenter of it must be sourced from the Smooth Ops "stable"?

Put it another way, if the Beeb were dissatisfied with some aspect of Mike Harding's folk show, could they have asked Smooth Operations to try to source someone completely new as presenter, like, say, Jim Moray or whoever?

It's a genuine question: I'm very curious to know how the system of tender for all these radio slots works. What, in theory, is stopping me, say, from starting a production company and volunteering my radio-show production services to the BBC?

And is it just me or is this whole thing of one radio DJ having 2 or 3 different shows on one station a bit of a new thing - well, a phenomenon that seems to have crept in over the last 10 years?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: MikeL2
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 09:33 AM

Hi

I like Mike Harding very much. I knew him when he first started up and followed his career with interest.

He was a great entertainer and certainly filled the clubs when he performed. I used to book Mike about once a year "to pay the rent". He also helped me by recommending up-and-coming musicians worth having a look at.

I guess after 15 years though regardless of how good or bad he was, it was time for a change.

I don't know much about Mark Radcliffe but I think we should wait at least until he has been doing the program for a few weeks to try to judge him. He won't be Mike Harding- that is why he has been chosen.Who knows?? He may even please The Traddies.

Give the man a chance.

Cheers

MikeL2

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Howard Jones
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 09:45 AM

The Beeb wants to make its specialist music shows more attractive to the general listener so they don't lose their audience. Bringing in an established radio broadcaster (albeit one with an interest in folk), rather than one from within the folk world, is another step along the road.

The general flavour of the show is dictated by Smooth Ops who are in turn dictated to by the BBC. Mark Radcliffe will bring his own personality to the show and may have a little influence on the choice of music, but I suspect the music that is played on the show won't change a lot.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Martin
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 09:46 AM

If I was in charge...I'd have got Lester Simpson & Mick Peat - Folkwaves seemed to me get it all pretty much bang on, give or take a Midlands bias. Banter, old, new, foreign material, intelligent & informed opinions etc. Failing that, we could do a lot worse than MR.

Back to lurking

Martin

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 09:58 AM

Mark Radcliffe is a good DJ and is a fan of folk music. It all depends on what his brief is, though. What worries me is that Radio Two wants something even more mainstream and that the folk show will become yet another radio show dominated by the Mumfords and Marlings of this world, which you can hear enough of on other programmes for them not to need exposure on very short specialist shows. Though I do agree with Mike above - let's give the man a chance. Persoanlly I'd opt for a three hour show co-presented by Radcliffe, Harding and Bob Meyer...

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 09:59 AM

What, in theory, is stopping me, say, from starting a production company and volunteering my radio-show production services to the BBC?

Absolutely nothing, Matt. The change to the BBC's charter and monopoly of programme making means that it must contract out a percentage of its programme output to independent makers.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 10:17 AM

"What worries me is that Radio Two wants something even more mainstream and that the folk show will become yet another radio show dominated by the Mumfords and Marlings of this world, which you can hear enough of on other programmes for them not to need exposure on very short specialist shows. Though I do agree with Mike above - let's give the man a chance. Persoanlly I'd opt for a three hour show co-presented by Radcliffe, Harding and Bob Meyer..."

I'm pretty sure I've heard Mike Harding play a Laura Marling song on his show, for what it's worth. He certainly plays plenty of folk material that in its essence is just as vapid as Mumfords et al. And Bob Meyer plays plenty of quite middle-of-the-road singer-songwriter stuff too - he plays very little traditional song. (Notwithstanding the fact that he gets the excellent Kilkawley Family in session, and that his own albums are proper gritty dirt blues loveliness, I should add!) I noticed Genevieve Tudor had post-Mumford singer-songthumpers Ahab in session the other day.

I don't see how Radcliffe can push the R2 folk show too much further towards the mainstream, it's already pretty close

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 10:18 AM

From 'Guest Ed'
>>>"Mike Harding has NOT been sacked. His contract is ending and he hasn't been offered a new one for this slot. Big difference.

Don't believe everything Lizzie Cornish says..."<<


You are such a fecking twit...
Best BELIEVE that, mate, for I was correct about Mike being sacked....


And yes, I DO accept apologies...but doubt I'll get one from 'the usual crowd' of Cowardly Moaning Minnies....

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,jonesnudger
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 10:19 AM

Yet more b******s from the bloated BBC. Best idea, the one already made: let Mike and Mark share the show and make it twice as long. Mike and I share a bit of backgound, both Crumpsall originally and same musical friends late 50's early 60's. I don't share his wild enthusiasm for every single song and tune he plays. Surely some of the numbers are "not the best thing I have heard this year"? Still, we should be grateful as humble licence payers that the Beeb deigns to bother with folk at all.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 10:21 AM

I'm also correct about this, were Mike to take the idea up, for it would be FAR BIGGER than Mark Radcliffe's Show..and I bet that Alan from UK Folk Music would help him out, just as he has with FOLKWAVES.

Live From The Cowshed

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 10:24 AM

Deposed! is it, by thunder!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 10:54 AM

Sorry Lizzie my friend, but failure to renew an existing contract, does not constitute a sacking. He is contracted till the end of this year, and he will continue to do it till the end of this year. Ergo he is still employed. His contract was not terminated, it was scheduled to end then. I think you may find that Mike is actually self employed too.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:04 AM

Can't say MH hasn't had a fair innings;
and if he's too energetic to contemplate full time retirement
nothing's to stop him setting up his own internet blog radio station.

He's got the experience and resources to make a go of going 'indie'
unshackled from the constraints of mainstream broadcast production corporations.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Mr Happy
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:27 AM

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/entertainment-arts-19988875

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,CJ
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:28 AM

Here's my opinion.

MH's show was far from perfect, but it'd be unfair to blame MH or it as a show for the lack of time traditional music has on the BBC. If the show had been twice the length, for example, I'm sure MH would have covered more bases.

I cannot stand Mark Radcliffe. His show on BBC6 has become a parody of itself. He presents it in such a selfconciously "wacky" way it makes for unpleasant listening. I used to love his shows on Radio 1, even when he went to the middle of the afternoon, he still sounded Real. Now, he sounds forced, anxious and eager. If he transfers this presenting style to the folk show, it doesn't matter WHAT he plays, his jittery style will make the show an unpleasant listen for me.

Finally, I can't help but see this as a move to the mainstream. I hope I'm wrong, but I strongly suspect that there'll be a whole heap of nickdrakes being played. I think some nickdrakes are very good, but there are plenty of places on the BBC where they receive airplay. I'd rather this "folk" show concentrated on more traditional based music not oft (or ever) played on the BBC.

Prove me wrong Mark, relax your style a bit and play music not on the BBC6 playlist.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,soothsayer
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:33 AM

How much do input you honestly think Mike Harding had into his playlist? How much will Radcliffe have? The playlists are dictated by Smooth Operations and I guess by the BBC as well. The personality behind the microphone might help to get certain audiences on board through their own fanbase and their profile but like any BBC radio show they are nothing like autonomous when it comes to choosing the music that gets played. I have it on good authority that Mike Harding often had to play music he didn't really like.

There's been a lot of slagging off of the BBC. Ask yourself, who's decision was it not to renew the contract, the BBC's, or the production company that makes the show?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Spleen Cringe
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:39 AM

"I don't see how Radcliffe can push the R2 folk show too much further towards the mainstream, it's already pretty close."

That's true. I just think it could get even closer...

And I'd second your comments about Bob Meyer's album.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:42 AM

I rarely listen to folk or blues or jazz on the BBC these days - it all seems so gutless. Even the name "Smooth Operations" seems smarmy and gloopy.

I think back to the days of people like Mike Raven, Alexis Korner, Charlie Gillett, Humph, John Peel, Mark Lamarr - people you felt had some personal input to their shows - with fondness. We shan't see their like again.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:42 AM

Ask yourself, who's decision was it to impose on the BBC
the employment ethics and practices of the ruthless corporate boardroom market place !!!???

Time for MH to step down ? maybe ???

But the slimey nature of his discarding is reprehensible.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 11:54 AM

If Mike was told what to play, then I think that is a disgrace!
From what we know, John Peel was never told what to play, and so why would anyone presume to tell Mike Harding -with all his experience on the folk scene - what to play!
All this "dumbing down" by the BBC is very disappointing.
Mind you, the BBC have a long track record of drafting in people, who lack the correct credentials, to run shows
I do hope that Mike does now "reveal all" about the show.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 12:00 PM

"Radio 2's folk show is produced for the BBC by independent production company Smooth Operations, which also produces Mark Radcliffe's other BBC radio ventures."


Says it all really!.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 12:29 PM

How much do input you honestly think Mike Harding had into his playlist?

When I asked if MH would play our album on his show he asked me to send him a copy, which I did. That he didn't play it I took in good grace & as a matter of personal taste - plenty of other stations did, from Bob's Folk Show to the Late Junction on Radio 3, so I'm in no way complaining here. Every respect for MH, it seems to me that he played pretty much what he liked to play which is exactly as it ought to be. And I doubt Sproaty Smith & Elle Osbourne are on any official play list, though I'd love to be told I was mistaken!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: greg stephens
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 12:56 PM

I've got a great idea. Have an hour a week programme on Radio 2 that plays records of folk music. just a thought? But unlikely to be implemented.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,soothsayer
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 12:58 PM

not saying he had no input at all, but I have definintely heard that a lot of the playlist was dictated by the producers and there were things he didn't want to play, that he had to.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 01:03 PM

He who pays the piper, calls the tune

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 01:58 PM

The pressure and competition from other broadcasters on the BBC - from many areas - is such that listener/viewer figures are more paramount in their thinking than ever before. With that in view, it seems more likely to me that contracts to independent programme makers (like Smooth Ops) will be awarded with an eye to the ratings that those programmes can bring in. This isn't rocket science, just the market dictating or influencing the action - and a totally different environment from the one in which the BBC operated, say, 20 years ago.

Smooth Ops are bound to have the question of ratings and listener figures in mind when creating their programmes - and 'tune' the programmes accordingly. How they tune them is, of course, open to speculation.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 02:01 PM

BBC Radio 2 folk DJ Mike Harding hits out at boss after sacking

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 02:31 PM

John, from the link above:

>>>>BBC Radio 2 folk DJ Mike Harding hits out at boss after sacking

Veteran presenter to be replaced by Mark Radcliffe after 15 years presenting Folk Show


Mike Harding says controller Bob Shennan only rang him once and that was to sack him. Photograph: Jude Edginton/BBC
BBC Radio 2 presenter Mike Harding, who has been axed as presenter of the station's folk music show after 15 years, has hit out at its controller Bob Shennan, saying the only time he rang him was to sack him.


Harding will be replaced in the new year by another Radio 2 presenter, Mark Radcliffe, his first primetime show on Radio 2 since he switched to 6 Music last year.


"In 15 years I have built the programme from 70,000 listeners to 860,000 listeners. In all that time I have never had a single phone call from Radio 2 to say I was doing a good job even though I instituted things like the Folk Awards with my producer John [Leonard]. I built that show up over the years with a lot of hard work because it is music that is in my blood," Harding said.


"Last Tuesday I got the only phone call I have ever had from Radio 2 – from Bob Shennan – telling me he was pulling me from the programme. No reason was given beyond that they wanted to make it more 'live'. No other presenter was mentioned."


Harding, who currently pre-records the show, said he could have broadcast it live if requested. He will continue to present the Wednesday evening slot for the rest of the year, with his last show on Boxing Day.


"I will continue to do it with the professionalism that I have always done," said the singer and comedian who had his own show on BBC2.


Harding, who is also known as the "Rochdale Cowboy" after his 1975 chart hit, turns 68 later this month.


He said age should have nothing to do with presenting.


"Folk music spans the generations," he said. "Young people don't care how old I am as long as I know what I'm talking about. I'm a player, I'm a musician. It's my life."


Radcliffe, who currently presents a late-night show on Radio 2 alongside his afternoon 6 Music show, which he co-hosts with Stuart Maconie, said: "I can't say how thrilled and honoured I am to be doing this.


"I am also well aware of how loved and cherished Mike Harding is and it is daunting to be following in his footsteps. He is a friend and someone I respect enormously and I really want to pay tribute to the sterling job he's done on the Folk Show for so long. Thanks Mike, from all of us."


Shennan described Radcliffe as a "firm favourite with Radio 2 listeners [with] unrivalled broadcasting credentials and longstanding passion, knowledge and hands-on experience of folk music".


The Radio 2 and 6 Music controller added: "I'd like to thank Mike Harding, who has spent 15 years at the top of his game, delighting fans with his expertise and rooting out the very best folk music.


"On his watch, folk has enjoyed a huge surge in popularity and Mike has been key in supporting the genre and introducing Radio 2 listeners to a broad range of new artists. We very much hope to work with him again in the future." <<<


It would seem that Mike felt he was felt sacked, perhaps not 'there and then' but he was given just a few weeks to pack up and go, basically..

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 02:34 PM

Mark Radcliffe on Mike Harding (taken from above)
"I am also well aware of how loved and cherished Mike Harding is and it is daunting to be following in his footsteps. He is a friend and someone I respect enormously and I really want to pay tribute to the sterling job he's done on the Folk Show for so long. Thanks Mike, from all of us."


Well, in that case, Mark, you should have let Mike know what they were planning, then told the BBC where to stick their nasty little 'arrangement' done behind Mike Harding's back.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 02:42 PM

Unfortunately, Lizzie, if you work in a medium like broadcasting - where you're essentially a freelancer - such decisions, which affect your own future in the medium, are not easily made.

No-one lasts for ever - and rather than blame Mark Radcliffe for taking up a job which advances his career - if there was a "nasty little arrangement", then castigate Smooth Ops/BBC. Let's suppose that Mark Radcliffe had done, as you might see it, the "right thing" and refused the job. Would that have changed Smooth Ops' decision to release Mike Harding? I doubt it very much.

They wanted a change - they got a change. The manner of that change may be open to debate, as is obvious from this thread. But let's not be naive about the nature of the way that broadcasting operates and has always operated.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Lizzie Cornish
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 02:56 PM

At what point does someone stand up and say "No, this is wrong!" ?

Never?

You don't treat someone who's worked for you for so very long like this...

If Smooth Ops were also in on it they too should hang their heads in shame...particularly as John Leonard is a friend of Mike's....

I'm sick of shitty people treading on others to advance their careers or stay in with 'the BBC Boys' whilst saying how 'cherished' someone is to them...

Personally, as I'm sure you know, I've NO respect for Smooths Ops or the BBC after their behaviour towards me, but I was of no significance in their working day. Mike had worked for them, WITH them, for many many years and as such he should at the very least have been treated in a decent manner, with him being informed first and then Mark going to him to see if it was OK...

But hey, that's just lil' ol' me..

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 02:58 PM

These hoo-hahs about actors/actresses/presenters being replaced crop up over and over again in broadcasting. Does anyone recall another such when Ellis Powell was replaced by Jessie Matthews as Gwen Dale in "Mrs. Dale's Diary"? It's an instructive analogy. "Mrs. Dale" started in 1948 and, in 1962 (14 years later), it was decided that the programme needed change - so it was renamed "The Dales", got a new theme tune by Ron Grainer and, in 1963, Ellis Powell was sacked with a fairly large controversy! Sounds familiar?

It caused such a hoo-had, in fact, that a play was written based broadly around it - "The Killing of Sister George". I remember the day that "The Dales" series finally came to an end - in April 1969 - and walking into the BBC Club bar in the Langham to see Jessie Matthews in her mink stole being feted by the Good and Gorgeous...

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 03:00 PM

"Advance his career"? Sorry Will but MH is a "niche broadcaster" and Radcliffe doesn't fall into that category. SO; if he thinks this will adavnce his carrer, then Folk on Two, is in for an enormous change of direction,.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 03:05 PM

John - I'm not in a position to pronounce on why a broadcaster like Mark R would or wouldn't take up a job offered to him. That's up to him and it may or may not be an advancement. But to suggest that he shouldn't take a job because of the circumstances of the replacement of his predecessor is not how the real world works.

My view - and I don't even listen to the damn programme - is simply to see what a hand he makes of it. As others have said, give the man a chance.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 03:28 PM

Remember he already works for Smooth Ops too.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 03:40 PM

"If Mike was told what to play, then I think that is a disgrace!"

Here is the story I was told. After Jim Lloyd's retirement and the Ralph McTell stop-gap, BBC Radio 2 head Jim Moyer called the "great and good" of the folk world, the festival organisers, media etc, into Broadcasting House for a lunch at which the replacement for Folk On 2 would be announced. When one of the SmoothOps people said the presenter would be Mike Harding, there was general dismay. One of the festival organisers blurted out "But what the f*** does Mike Harding know about the folk scene?" as, back then, he'd pretty much vanished from it after his hit single. "It doesn't matter," replied the SmoothOps person, "we'll be telling him what to play."

Its the same people who'll be telling Mark Ratcliffe what to play, I imagine. So nothing to worry about there.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 03:42 PM

John - I really know nothing of Mark Radcliffe's broadcasting - never heard him. I know very little about Smooth Ops other than that they are contracted to produce programmes for the BBC. And I rarely listen to folk on the radio or TV for that matter because the little I've heard bears small relation to much of the music that I play and enjoy "live". I've listened to Mike Harding's show perhaps half a dozen times over the last 15 years and can take it or leave it.

My point was in response to Lizzie's view that Radcliffe should not have accepted the job of replacing Harding because of the way that (we assume) Harding was treated. And the only point I made - and would still make - is that the world of music/theatre/broadcasting and its ilk doesn't work like that. Radcliffe's refusal of the job on 'ethical' principles - even supposing he knew of the way that Harding was treated (and we don't know that) - probably wouldn't have made a hap'orth of difference to the initial decision to not renew Harding's contract.

As I don't listen to radio folk output, I honestly don't have a view of how the the programme in question might change for the "better" or "worse" - a view which could only be subjective at best.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 03:47 PM

I was thinking more that he might jeapordise his present job, if he refused, and find himself in the wilderness.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Howard Jones
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 03:50 PM

The report on the BBC's own news website says their aim is "to incorporate folk music more seamlessly into our mainstream programmes".

They clearly don't understand that the reason minority areas of music need their own shows is precisely because they don't fit into their mainstream programmes. Or that the point of having a public service broadcaster is to cover those areas which otherwise would not get covered.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 03:54 PM

Ah - got you. Well, who knows...

In my Beeb days, most broadcasters/presenters were not classed as "permanent" staff, but were employed on a regular, renewable contractual basis which meant that they could work elsewhere as they chose and therefore earn money outside the BBC. "Permanent" staff like myself couldn't do this - and our contract stipulated that everything that we did - such as writing a book - was the exclusive property of the Corporation, even if it had no connection whatsoever with the Corporation! So, in those days, DJs could do work for the BBC but also freelance outside its walls. Whether such free arrangements exist for Smooth Ops contracted people I haven't the faintest idea.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 03:55 PM

(That last post was for John> :-)

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:05 PM

From Andy Kershaw (on Facebook)

This is a disgraceful and completely unnecessary decision. Mike has built up this fine show, and its audience, from nothing. He is an excellent broadcaster, a true enthusiast, and he knows his stuff. To drop him is a kick in the teeth for Mike - and his loyal listeners. I would have hoped Mark Radcliffe - an outstanding broadcaster himself, a nice guy, but not a noted folk music enthusiast - had the integrity, solidarity, principle and moral backbone to refuse to replace Mike - who didn't need replacing. Alas, it seems not.

He's got a lot of support.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:46 PM

One of the most beautiful songs I've ever heard, which unlocked so very much of my Dad for me, for my Dad, like Mike's (whom he never got to meet) was an RAF Navigator...

Mike's Dad never made it back...

Mike Harding - 'Bomber's Moon'

I fully agree with Andy Kershaw!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:52 PM

From Andy Kershaw's page.....

Petition to Reinstate Mike Harding - Please sign and share....


FB Photolink of Mike and this story to share - From Andy Kershaw

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:56 PM

For fuck's sake, should we keep evevything in the world the same forever?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: GUEST,Dave G
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 04:59 PM

Mike Harding took over this programme when it was dying on its feet and turned it round with HIS excellent choice of music. He has played a major role in developing the careers of several of our finest (Kate R, Seth L, Cara D, Unthanks etc.) and, 15 years on, is still doing an excellent job in the one hour a week that we have for a dedicated folk music programme on national radio. I have nothing against Mark Radcliffe, himself a performer of songs with the Family Mahone. My worry is the direction the show moves in. Are we likely to see a move to more mainstream ideas of folk (Mumford and Sons, Fleet Foxes etc)?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 05:00 PM

Realistically, the BBC never gives way to petitions to reinstate people as it would mean them admitting they were wrong. As per Andy Kershaw himself, Folkwaves, A World In London and numerous others down the years. Actually, Kershaw would have been a better replacement for Harding if he had to be replaced - its ridiculous that somebody who has won so many Sony Awards is unemployed. And he's a northerner which seems to be part of the job description.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 05:01 PM

I'd like to keep the waistline I had 50 years ago

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding
From: Howard Jones
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 05:02 PM

The BBC Trust is currently carrying out a public consultation on its "Purpose Remits". It might be appropriate to ask how the BBC's stated intention "to incorporate folk music more seamlessly into our mainstream programmes" meets its objectives of "covering a wide range of cultural activities", "stimulating creativity and cultural excellence" and "representing the UK, its nations, regions and communities".


The consultation can be found here:

BBC Trust consultations

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 05:14 PM

Me too, John! :0)

Andy Kershaw's Facebook page

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Folk Yarn
Date: 18 Oct 12 - 05:45 PM

His show was shite and the next show will be shite

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 02:02 AM

Talking about Andy Kershaw, a number of years ago - on a TV show - he made a smart-arsed comment about Hank Williams, and, as a result,
I've never listened to his shows or read his columns since.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Roger Knowles
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 02:06 AM

As a lover of both folk & country music, I was appalled by the BBC choice to appoint Bob Harris to MC the country show years ago. I do not listen to it much nowadaysdue to the material chosen by him.
I fear it will be the same with Radcliffe, what I saw from the Cambridge festival did not impress me at all. He doesn't seem to know his subject.
Mike Harding, I'll miss you.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Geoff the Duck
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 03:24 AM

These days, I tend to only hear Radio 2 when I am driving. Moving kids around on evenings means that I heard bits of Mike Harding and Bob Harris. It always seemed that i heard better Folk stuff on the Thursday Country show than on Wednesday.
The impression I always got from the MH show was that is a performer wasn't a youngish female, an American, or Martin Simpson, there was little chance of hearing anything from them.
I used to like Folkweave, especially the bits recorded at actual Folk Club gigs.
Quack!
GtD.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 03:34 AM

"I think back to the days of people like Mike Raven, Alexis Korner, Charlie Gillett, Humph, John Peel, Mark Lamarr - people you felt had some personal input to their shows - with fondness. We shan't see their like again."

Tom Ravenscroft, Cerys Mathews, Jarvis Cocker, Huey Morgan, Marc Riley, Gideon Coe all have personal input into their shows - you can hear it. In fact, Will, I suspect you'd enjoy Cerys Mathews' show: she's a big fan of acoustic blues, gospel and related music.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 04:10 AM

I've really tried to like Cerys Matthews show, even to the point of waking up early on Sundays on purpose, but I just find her squeaky airhead persona too annoying. It's lovely to hear somebody in the throes of enthusiastic discovery of folk and world music, but she needs a producer who knows their stuff and can stop her making so many terrible errors, as a balance. Reminds me of a Mike Harding show where he played a track by American singer songwriter Shawn Colvin and then said something about "a cracking track from the talented Mister Colvin". And it's pre-recorded. And they didn't even notice to do a re-take or blooper edit. He so obviously hadn't even bothered to listen to the track the producers were dropping in. So Mark Radcliff can't be any worse, just a different set of mistakes.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Noddy
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 05:18 AM

Should have been replaced long long ago.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 05:29 AM

(GUEST(s) - if you could add a consistent little handle to your posts, then we'd be able to distinguish comments from GUEST from comments from GUEST.) :-)

There seem to be several distinct but interlinked themes about the topic:

1. Whether the show should change or not after 15 years.
2. Whether Mike Harding should or should not go.
3. Whether Mark Radcliffe should or not should be chosen as presenter.
4. Whether Mark Radcliffe or anyone else should have accepted the role of presenter.
5. Whether any presenter would be anything other than a front for a pre-selected playlist.
6. Whether "folk" should or should not be brought into the mainstream.

There may be others - like: should anything, anywhere ever change! The only one that has any passing interest for me is no. 6 on my list.

For the life of me I can't see whether it matters that the music that we like (whatever that music is, not just folk) should be "in the mainstream" or not, or "brought to a wider audience" or "given more exposure in the media". Are we in thrall to radio and TV? Is the only measure of the greatness of music the number of people who listen to it, or the number of times it's played on the radio? I have dozens of different musical interests - 18,000 tracks on my iPod at the current count - and many of my favourites will never be heard on the airwaves from one decade to the next. Rina Ketty singing "Berceuse du Reve Bleu" - the Holy Modal Rounders blasting through "The Year of Jubilo" - Jean Sablon singing "Le Fiacre". Why should I care about that "lack of exposure" - and how on earth could it possibly detract from the music itself?

I will say this: an unrelieved diet of folk music, or any other music for that matter, on radio and TV would be boring. Variety is the spice, etc... but there's also the "Off" switch.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Graham, Nuneaton
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 05:29 AM

I hope all of us who are upset by this change are writing to the BBC !   Bob Shennan's the ma Radio 2 controller who sacked Mike.    Also, I hope all the Folk Club and Festival organisers who Mike has supported and publicised will write.....and especially the many musicians, young and old who Mike has had on his programme. Time to take action !

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,raymond greenoaken
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 06:10 AM

Heard on the radio yesterday: "Dave Jones [manager of Sheffield Wednesday] will be talking about his future, and that will be coming up very shortly..."

One thing about the future: from a certain angle it looks very like the past. Back in the 70s, "Genial" Jim Lloyd was eased out of his Folk On Two slot and replaced by a programme called Folkweave, presented by Tony Capstick. This was the same Tony Capstick who was one of the most fluent and hilarious performers on the folk scene at the time, but for some reason he became stiff, tentative and mirthless whenever he sat in the Folkweave chair.

Spool forward twenty years or so, and there's "Genial" Jim Lloyd again being eased out of his Folk On Two slot and replaced by a programme called The Mike Harding Show, presented by...you know the rest. At the time, MH had earned himself a well-deserved reputation as being one of the most fluent and hilarious performers on the folk scene, but his weekly bulletins from the cowshed over the past fifteen years have been, with grisly regularity, stiff, tentative and mirthless.

So my prediction is — Mark Radcliffe? A mere stalking horse. Expect within the year the glorious return of "Genial" Jim, 95 but still firing on all cylinders.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 06:20 AM

UK Folk Music statement on Mike and the BBC

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Bernard
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 06:23 AM

In my experience, the Beeb only criticise you when someting goes a little wrong, and don't praise when praise is due.

Ali O'Brien and I used to broadcast on BBC GMR, and were chastised in no uncertain terms when we inadvertently 'crashed the news jingle' - which means we were still speaking when it kicked in.

The only person who ever praised us for our hours of excellent material - interviews, variety of CD tracks and live material - was Mike Shaft, who was instrumental in employing Ali in the first place.

We now broadcast on Oldham Community Radio, which is far friendlier! For example, whilst our pre-recorded Christmas Special was being broadcast, the Station Boss sent us both a text to say how much he and his wife were enjoying the show!

Just for the record, Oldham Community Radio is available online and has listeners around the world. So we're not a 'poor cousin' to the Beeb. Oh, and our 'Listen Again' goes back rather more than a week...!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: greg stephens
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 06:34 AM

raymond greenoaken makes an extremely valid point that I havent heard pointed out before on this topic. Couldn't agree more. Both Tony Capstick and Mike Harding were performers of huge humour and enthusiasm, plus great background knowledge and experience. Mike Harding stage shows would make you wet yourself, and I remember many moments of uncontrollable hilarity with Tony Capstick. But these qualities, to be brutally honest, did not successfully come out in Folkweave or Mike's current folk show.The problem does not lie with the presenters, it lies with the inability of the power structures of the BBC and/or Smooth Operations to come up with a scintillating format that actually uses the talent they have got.It's emphatically not the fault of the music that potentially could be played, or the potential presenters. The problems were, and will be, structural.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Perceived Purist
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 06:39 AM

One of the postings stated that the appointment would upset the purists.

Most of the "purists" I know did not listen to the "Mike Harding Show" so it is not going to change things.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Howard Jones
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 06:58 AM

Will, I agree with what you say up to a point, but I think it does matter. Of course it's not a measure of the music whether or not it's played on radio. However I remember that when I was a youngster Folk on 2 was hugely influential in my exploration of folk music. It was essential listening. I'm afraid the same can't be said for the current programme, and I fear the situation will only get worse.

I really don't see how minority interests such as folk music can be brought into the mainstream. If they were attractive to the general audience they wouldn't be minority listening. The only way to make them mainstream is to ignore the more difficult stuff and just play music which is already close to mainstream tastes. It may be very fine music, but it rules out a lot of other very fine music. The insistence on moving even further towards the "mainstream" can only result in an even blander programme. The more challenging music which doesn't even appeal to all folk fans, let alone a general audience, will seldom be heard.

If the BBC purports to support these types of music (not just folk), it should at least do it properly. An hour a week isn't really too much to ask. Whether Radio 2 is now an appropriate home for it is another question entirely.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 07:01 AM

I think the BBC has a general dislike of traditional music, what started out as Folk On 2 has been gradually watered down over the years since Jim Lloyd retired and now with Mark Radcliffe at the helm the process will carry on until it's just another middle of the road pop programme with an occaisional ' folk type ' [ Mumfords et al ] song thrown in then that will be that, no specialist folk music programmes on BBC Radio 2 it's a sad day, yet the BBC justify a whole channel devoted to classical music and another one to pop music, it defies logic, or does it ? the knobheads at the top must assume that everyone wants to listen to the same music as they do.

On RTE Radio 1 you can hear traditional music throughout the day, all day, plus the Irish music programmes they broadcast, why does the BBC hate it so much ?

What a disgrace the BBC has become.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 07:29 AM

With Mark Radcliffe at the helm the process will carry on until it's just another middle of the road pop programme with an occaisional 'folk type' song thrown in

Wow Dave, amazing that you can predict the future without any evidence to guide you!

Any chance of some winning Lottery numbers?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 07:35 AM

I`ve been quite busy recently. I `ad that Bob Shennan from the BBC in my cab the other day. `e was going up to the British Library to bone up on traditional music and `e `ad a "Bellow`ead" CD in `is `and.
I said, "Morning Mr.Door(Shenandoah, Geddit?.) You put the cat amongst the pigeons with your not renewing Mike `arding`s contract. They`re going ape on that MUDCAT".
`e said, "I dunno why. We`re gonna still give the punters what they want but just with a fresh face. `e`ll bring folk music to the masses.
I said, "Whatcha got in mind then?"
`e said, "Things like Terry Wogan singing `is "Furry Dance Song"
and Benny `ill" with `is song about the saucy milkman!!"

Whaddam I Like??

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Jim Martin
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 08:12 AM

Dave - I think it's going a bit far to say that RTE Radio 1 broadcasts trad music all day. Don't forget 'Late Junction' on BBC Radio 3!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 F
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 09:52 AM

Trying to remember why I stopped listening to

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 09:55 AM

Trying to remember why I stopped listening to Mike Harding approx 12 years ago...???

Did he develop a habit of talking over live session performance music ???

Something like that annoyed me.........

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: BrendanB
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 10:30 AM

I used to enjoy Radcliffe and Maconie on Radio 2 before they got shifted to 6Music and replaced by a programme of brass band music (a genre which I find very hard to like). I am prepared to give Radcliffe a chance and judge him on his performance, not on prediction.
I was never a great fan of Harding, every performer seemed to be 'my favourite singer/guitarist/fiddler (whatever)' and every track was 'the best version I have heard'. No doubt I am being unfair but I do find his constant use of hyperbole tedious. He is far better as a performer than as a presenter, in my opinion.
My encyclopaedic knowledge in this area stems from the fact that I would listen to Harding while driving to choir practice and Radcliffe and Maconie while driving back home.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 10:46 AM

BrendanB

         I`m relieved to discover I am not the only one tire of Mike`s
plaudits for all as you describe. I often wonder if the artists concerned ever argued among themselves about who deserved what.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 11:05 AM

I really don't care who presents a programme that I have rarely if ever heard. If the new format means more live sessions, so much the better. Next.........

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Albert Thinly
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 11:27 AM

Kill the pig!

This guy replacing Mark Radclife is the worst of all. Apparently all the real folk Mark plays - Mumford, Sting, Marling, is going to be replaced by Only Songs Considered Folk or Acoustic being performed by XFactor finalists.

Bring back Mark Radcliffe!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Erich
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 11:49 AM

I've been listening to folk music for 40 years now and of course I came across Mike Harding (I do have some of his recordings). But I've never heard of a Mark Radcliffe.....

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Western Suze
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 12:21 PM

"Genial" Jim Lloyd again being eased out of his Folk On Two slot

Lloyd wasn't eased out. He hung on well past his broadcast-by date because his wife Frances Line was the Controller of Radio 2. When she retired, he graciously handed in the golden tankard as well. Then Ralph McTell presented it for few months while they put it out to tender. Let's just say he wasn't a natural broadcaster.

Several miles up this thread (17 Oct 05:04 pm) I detailed what happened next, which drew no comment. Still true though.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Western Suze
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 12:25 PM

I think the BBC has a general dislike of traditional music, what started out as Folk On 2 has been gradually watered down over the years

Yes, it was so much better when it was The Yetties, Isla St Clair and Johnny Silvo every week. Hardcore traddy stuff.

How easily we forget!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Geoff Woolfe
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 12:25 PM

The problem with Radio 2 is that it will always seems to be the bland leading the bland. Some weeks I've listened to MH all the way through especially when he has an interesting guest,but as often as not I switch off when he plays the usual 'easy listening' folk... you know who I mean!
How often is real 'music of the people' aired on the radio?
Late Junction has been marginalised to the insomniacs slot. And you have to be lucky to get any folk music on regional radio.
As for me - I'm still angry because Dick Barton Special Agent was taken off and replaced by The Archers....

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 01:18 PM

So Western Suze, are you suggesting that those you mention are/were, not folk singers?
I would also be interested to know, why you expected an all traditional programme. It was never its remit as far as I know.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,raymond greenoaken
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 01:21 PM

Western Suze - you've ruined my story arc. Why should we let facts get in the way of a good argument?

But as for Genial Jim being past his broadcast-by date: if you could get beyond his pipe-and-slippers cosiness and fondness for the Yetties, (whom he managed for a while, such was his fondness), you might be forced to admit that he was head and shoulders above the rag-tag assortment of part-timers that followed him in that slot over the decades. With Jim there was no grisly hyperbole, no clunking repetitiveness, no "When I was in Clutterbuck's Monkey Stranglers with Bernard Wrigley" self-promotion, no "What was I going to say next?" (J Kirkpatrick, j'accuse! JK is of course another hilarious live performer.), just smooth-as-the-Medway quiet professionalism. Mark Radcliffe, there's your plimsoll line - but chuck in a few good jokes, there's a good chap.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Les in Chorlton
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 01:53 PM

Support Mike,

sign the petition, it wont stop the Beeb but it will give a shout out for folk and show those of us who have enjoyed the show that we still like, and some of us love, Mike:

http://www.change.org/en-GB/petitions/the-bbc-reinstate-mike-harding-to-his-bbc-radio-2-weekly-folk-show-2

Les

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Harry Basnett.
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 03:01 PM

Really only listen to 6 Music these days...nice on there to hear folk music mixed in with other genres rather than just being shoved onto a one hour show which most people won't listen to. Might actually give Folk on 2 a try again when Mark's presenting it.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 03:02 PM

Is Mark Radliffe that bumbling bloke who intersperses ever sentence he utters with liberal doses of "errrr-umm, errrr-umm"? If so, God help us. At least MH actually knows something about the music he presents.

Good to see Diane back, BTW. Hope you're well now?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: johncharles
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 03:12 PM

Geoff, Dick barton is on radio 4extra at 8 45pm tonight
john

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Nick
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 05:50 PM

So much about the people so little about the music.

It's been mentioned in about 10% of posts maximum.

Surely it will either be a good show which we will isten to or not. I think I've listened to it twice in my life on the way to play live music on a wednesday so can neither get upset about Mike Harding's departure (I'm sure he is a good person and did a good job) or excited about Mark Radcliffe (I'm sure he is a good person etc etc)

If he plays music that people enjoy and he has a good presenting persona then the programme will work.

If not go somewhere else. Plenty of choice.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Nick
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 06:02 PM

So did 860000 people listen to his show every week? That's very impressive.

It seems very high to me

The 7.17m figure for Chris Moyles was similarly interesting.

Figures are often not what they seem - mostly because there are not enough people in this country

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Western Suze
Date: 19 Oct 12 - 06:58 PM

So Western Suze, are you suggesting that those you mention are/were, not folk singers?
I would also be interested to know, why you expected an all traditional programme. It was never its remit as far as I know.

I'm not suggesting anything. I was merely commenting on a previous poster's suggestion that Folk On 2 was more traditional and has been watered down ever since. I disagree. It has always been MOR cosy bland, At one time it was called Country Meets Folk (known out here in the stick as "Country Swamps Folk").

I'm not expecting much change either. It will continue the bland easy listening format designed to not frighten that horse which nobody has heard sing. The Krusby quotient should stay constant. Its Radio 2, for heaven's sake, that's what they do. The only thing I hope is that we won't have to put up with his pal Barbara Dickson at the bloody folk awards any more, assuming they're not next for the chop, which has to be on the cards.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 05:47 AM

"Figures are often not what they seem - mostly because there are not enough people in this country"

Online, podcasts and iPlayer - listeners don't have to be in this country

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Guest - Jan Cole
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 05:20 PM

Forgive me. Although interested in the topic, I got bored of reading this thread. I know several of the contributors and I know what age group they fall into. The postings all seemed to reference back and I saw very little regard for the future. Our 14 year old daughter loves folk music. She has grown up attending workshops at Sidmouth led by the likes of Jackie Oates, Emily Portman, Jim Causely. These are the people who gave folk music a relevance to her. She says we cannot ever stop going to Sidmouth - it is the centre of her universe and she adores her evenings in the Bulverton. She would never listen to Mike Harding - she has built her knowledge of folk music from her father and attending folk festivals since she was a babe in arms. (She learnt Parting Glass from Ed Sheeran's CD) The tradition will not stand still - there are kids out there loving the genre. I doubt she would ever listen to a folk radio show - she would use you tube or google to find out more about the artists she loves. In reality, who takes on the show may well become academic. It really is not how the world works now. Look at how many festivals there are, some that blend genres and do so much to reach out to new audiences. Your debate should not just reference your own desires, but should consider the wider and future audience. We ahould, for example, be considering Jon Boden for the job - he is knowlegeable and charismatic and would pull in a very wide audience.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Richard Tree
Date: 20 Oct 12 - 06:22 PM

As a presenter of a weekly Folk programme on Hospital Radio Lynn for almost 30 years I must say I am stunned and sickened by the shitty way Mike has been treated by those bloody "suits " upstairs in the Beeb.

I fully understand and respect that he might not be everyones cup of tea as a presenter,however he has undeniably done a huge amount of positive work to broaden the appeal of folk - just look at the huge increase in his listening figures for a start!

We seem to have been here before too - FOLKWAVES?

As for "mumbling" Mark Radcliffe   jeez!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 05:10 AM

Geof the Duck - I liked the radio programme that came from the folk clubs better too. Often the floor singers out sung any of the main guests ( as they still do ). The present programme is just about people who have made Cds - no jamming or variation. Perhaps real folk doesn't lend itself to tinned radio.
My choice of presenter would be Jim Causley - I heard him as a compare at whitby and he made a very fine one.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 07:23 AM

"Then Ralph McTell presented it for few months while they put it out to tender. Let's just say he wasn't a natural broadcaster. "

I think Ralph was by far the best presenter of the programme I've heard - I still have dozens of recordings of the show on cassette. A brilliant, eclectic mix of music that introduced me to people I'd never heard before. I listened to Mike Harding for a while then gave up. As for the idea of an all-traditional programme - that fills me with horror and would, i suspect, not last beyond a couple of weeks. When are the traddies going to get it into their heads that folk music is far, far wider than just traditional music.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 07:24 AM

"Our 14 year old daughter loves folk music. She has grown up attending workshops at Sidmouth led by the likes of Jackie Oates, Emily Portman, Jim Causely. These are the people who gave folk music a relevance to her. She says we cannot ever stop going to Sidmouth - it is the centre of her universe and she adores her evenings in the Bulverton. She would never listen to Mike Harding - she has built her knowledge of folk music from her father and attending folk festivals since she was a babe in arms. (She learnt Parting Glass from Ed Sheeran's CD)"

One thing you overlook, though, is how the likes of Jackie Oates, Emily Portman and Jim Causley actually get to the position of playing those festivals in the first place. Or how a festival such as Sidmouth publicises itself. Or how Ed Sheeran gets to make a CD. Or how your daughter even knows who to look for on youTube. Whether she uses radio or not, the musicians she discovers at Sidmouth and on YouTube certainly do (and the organisers of Sidmouth) certainly do. She's a beneficiary of radio and other media without realizing it.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,matt milton
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 07:27 AM

"As for the idea of an all-traditional programme - that fills me with horror and would, i suspect, not last beyond a couple of weeks. When are the traddies going to get it into their heads that folk music is far, far wider than just traditional music."

But, er, Mike Harding pretty much DID play an all-traditional programme! He just played the soft end of it. I'd say 95% of his show was traditional. And the exceptions were generally ones by traditional performers (eg Kate Rusby, Eliza Carthy etc)

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: theleveller
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 07:56 AM

Really? I find that hard to believe.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 08:11 AM

Well, whether you like the music or the person or not, Mike has been treated in an appalling manner by that arsehole at the BBC. For the most part BBC Radio 2 is shitty anyway.

I was treated worse by Binder Hamlyn a former large firm of Chartered Accountants after 23 years, and similarly by Maas International - a Dutch owned international vending company after 10 years, and it is happening again!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Continuity Jones
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 08:24 AM

In a fit of 10 minutes of boredom, here's the music from two recent Mike Harding shows. Maybe unlucky to have Bellowhead & Kate Rusby on them (in that they fit the image of his show rather well).


The Saw Doctors The Joyce Country Ceili Band

Pilgrims' Way Tarry Trousers

Heidi Talbot Grace Darling

Bellowhead 10,000 Miles Away

Bellowhead What's the Life of a Man?


Bellowhead Lillibulero

Kathleen MacInnes Tanga Binn Mo Mhathair


Stephanie Hladowski & C Joynes The Dark Eyed Sailor

Kate Rusby with Paul Weller

Bob Dylan Early Roman Kings

Rory McLeod Love Like a Rock

Ralph McTell Don't Think Twice It's Alright

The Shee Sugarwine

Cahalen Morrison & Eli West Stone to Sand

Henry Creaney Swallows Tail/Heather Breeze

Kate Rusby with Chris Thile Awkward Annie

Kate Rusby with Joe Rusby & Jerry Douglas The Good Man

Kate Rusby with Jim Causley I Courted a Sailor

Whapweasel The Hexhamshire Lass

Faustus The Hostesses Daughter

The Moulettes Uca's Dance

Dick Miles Concertina Tina and her Yellow Pashamina

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Leadfingers
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 08:32 AM

I recall some Folk Dance club friends who decided they would start a Folk SONG Club - It would ONLY feature English Traditional songs - Then they realised that between them they would run out of songs halfway through the first evening , so they said only BRITISH traditional songs - that would have just about got them through til closing time , so they said " OK - ALL Traditional songs , which added NOTHING to their list .
Does that sound at all familiar ? An ALL traditional Folk Programme would NOT work , so lets have a good mix , but for God's sake , not JUST Bloody Pop Folk !!

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Will Fly
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 11:00 AM

An ALL traditional Folk Programme would NOT work

Well, perhaps it would, Terry, because if you change the phrase 'Traditional SONGS' to 'Traditional SONGS and TUNES', there's surely enough in the repertoire to last for some considerable time. My own ceilidh band members on their own could offer several hours-worth...

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,achmelvich
Date: 21 Oct 12 - 04:44 PM

he was a bit predictable (kate rusby right here in the studio for a right old natter-but ok) the problem is there just isn't enough time for folk on bbc 2. for that try radio scotland - where there are about 6 hours a week - and tonight at 10pm 'another country' and the late night weekday show has loads of good stuff. there are some excellent shows on the radio-jarvis cocker on radio 6 (sun 4-6) my current favourite. much as i love folk and country i don't want to listen to radio that only plays exactly what i know and like -that's what my records are for. mark radcliffe a good choice, not his fault that the bbc treated mh badly.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Matt
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 03:35 PM

Now's your chance to listen for yourself

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01pgrp0

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 04 Jan 13 - 06:53 PM

Then they realised that between them they would run out of songs halfway through the first evening

Don't be daft. My 52 Folk Songs project, recently completed, eventually saw me singing and recording 99 traditional songs; a few of those were Irish and one or two American, but a good 90 of the 99 were British & most of those English. I learned a few of them for the recording, but equally there are several songs I know that got left out; I reckon I've 'got' at least 60 English traditional songs. (Mind you, I have been doing this for a while - I started singing at folk clubs back in 2003.) Put me in a room with five or six folkies with 40+ traditional songs each, and we won't start to repeat ourselves for a good long time.

Sorry for the slight thread derail, but that perception that English folk song consists of Thousands or more, No John No and Glorious Ale really bugs me - it's totally unfounded, and I think it deters a lot of people from exploring the ocean of old songs that's out there. A two-hour radio programme devoted to traditional songs from England (and Scotland) would be superb. (And they could always lighten the mood with a few tunes.)

theleveller - I don't know why you care what 'traddies' (like me) think. People like me - who turned to traditional songs because of how different they are from the singer-songwriter mainstream - are a tiny and basically voiceless minority; we're never going to determine who gets awards or airplay. When are the anti-traddies going to get it into their heads that you've won?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 03:51 AM

Well if the new blokes pretty good and the old bloke was all right - why don't they give them both an hour? Two hours of folk music a week would hardly be excessive.

Last night, I was was feeling sad and pissed off. ( I had a biopsy on my tongue on Thursday - a bit painful - and my best guitar has started making buzzing sounds - sod!) So there I am disconsolately channel hopping on Sky.

And there are all these mad gits going on about God. Each of them has their own TV channel. Why isn't there a channel for the mad gits of folk music?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 04:52 AM

Pity it's not on Radio 3, then at least we could listen to it in HD stream quality.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 05:09 AM

Is MR aware that he is as likely to be replaced at short notice as MH. Would we prefer a variety of presenters?
FloraG

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: SunrayFC
Date: 05 Jan 13 - 07:49 AM

A breath of fresh air.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jan 13 - 03:35 PM

well I'm going to miss the Mike Harding show. Mark is ok but Mike did the show to such a high standed it was always the hour in the week i stoped all elses and sat and listend to radio 2..........Well Done Mike.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Uncle Tone
Date: 08 Jan 13 - 04:05 PM

In general terms this was all about a programme controller trying to make a name for himself by fixing something that wasn't broken.

It's happened many times before, especially in commercial radio.

Tone
ex- Chiltern Radio Specialist Music Presenter

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Folknacious
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 10:48 AM

In the end it's simply down to whether you like the presenter's style, since they both played exactly the same fairly narrow range of music. I'm sure it'll only be a matter of weeks before MR makes a few gaffes like MH did (which one's Sonny and which one's Brownie, Mike? And was Shawn Colvin really a bloke?). Then the anti-MR nitpickers will have a field day.

There is more interesting music to be found elsewhere on the radio (Late Junction for example) and even more so on the web. Hopefully Harding will get more interesting on his podcast now free of Radio 2 M.O.R. requirements. I'm about to download the latest Froots Radio, which, according to the blurb "goes from Jumbo Brightwell to the Dancing Did via the Comoros Islands". I don't expect to hear any of those on Radio 2 any day soon.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,geoffwoolfe
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 03:06 PM

Could someone please calculate the ratio on MRs show between music and chat? No I mean SHOUTING and a little bit of music.
The new format is probably better than the old - but being old maybe it's not meant for me!
At least we got Pete Coe tonight....
Mind you I can shout as good as him - but it's musical shouting when I sing with Bristol Shantymen.......

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: Betsy
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 07:09 PM

I was late coming to the thread and that's been a good thing. Plenty of opinions for me to read ,for,against and indifferent. I am saddened by the (apparently )ruthless departure of Mike - but the world moves on.
I don't know Nick Dow and why he keeps beating himself up regarding apostrophes , but Nick, if you ARE still reading this thread, supercedes (as you have spelt it earlier) is actually spelt supersedes. Something to do with the Latin verb seder = to carry.
I suppose some could take issue with spelt / spelled , anyway what the fuck ? supersede is one of those words I used for many years - written as Nick did, until someone pointed it out to me. Mea Culpa etc...
Otherwise keep contributing Nick - I enjoy reading your well-constructed comments (apostrophe or spelling mistakes or not).
Yours (tongue in cheek)
Betsy

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: paul vaughan
Date: 09 Jan 13 - 08:17 PM

I have only scanned throught this thread,so I apologise in advance if this has already been covered. It seems to me that, given that there appears to be no single candidate that everybody agrees on, one answer would be to have a series of guest presenters. There are many people qualified to host such a show but may, for whatever reason be disinclined or unable to take on the role on a permanent basis. Maybe this would be a way of keeping the show fresh and offer a varied approach?
Any thoughts?

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Jan 13 - 05:41 AM

2nd episode was a bit lackluster tho

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Matt
Date: 12 Jan 13 - 04:46 PM

We should be reet now weve Mikes podcast from his website and Mark R.

Subject: RE: Mark Radcliffe replaces Mike Harding-Radio 2 Folk
From: GUEST,Littleborough Steven
Date: 20 Jan 13 - 05:17 AM

Mike Harding got the boot because he was too boring. I heard it from the "top" - MR was brought in to inject some new life into a dulling show - it's as simple as that. The manner in which he was given his notice raised a few curious eyebrows, although to be given twelve weeks advance warning that your one hour long weekly show is ending (broadcast, incidentally, through an ISDN link from his house in Ireland) is a lot more than some people get these days. The music scene has always changed and evolved. Progress?