Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Mavis Enderby
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 12:05 PM

Tut tut.

less and less = fewer and fewer

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 20 Nov 12 - 05:50 AM

Blandiver. Many thanks. just testing also.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: MikeL2
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 02:28 PM

like this eh??

just testing

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Guest TF
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 02:04 PM

J from Kemsing."output of a programme is the result of the input of a number of people, not the least of them being the controller". That's the problem at the BBC: too many controllers and less and less programme makers.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 11:20 AM

WITHOUT the spaces!!! D'oh!!

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 11:19 AM

Italics is done with HTML - best see the HTML tutorial, but simply put, if before you write a sentence you put:

< i > (without the spaces)

and after it you put:

< / i > (again with the spaces)

then everything in between will be in italics. Do it with b instead of i and it will be bold. Lots more possibilities. Have fun!

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 10:36 AM

How do some of you posters manage to write in italics?

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: Will Fly
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 10:29 AM

We have all seen examples of "refreshing". Shakepeare`s characters in jeans and rugby shirts, A.Conan-Doyle`s hero in Saville Row suits.

And one of the greatest versions of "The Merchant Of Venice" I've seen was done in Victorian period by the National Theatre - Olivier and Plowright starring... So...?

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 10:27 AM

Surely the output of any programme is the result of the input of a number of people, not the least of them being the controller. In his letter Mr.Shennan says "the show will be refreshed (as all shows need to be periodically)". He must accept his share of responsibility for any staleness that crept into the programme and I trust he will also make way for a fresher thinker. He could then view the curve, of which he speaks, from a different perspective.

We have all seen examples of "refreshing". Shakepeare`s characters in jeans and rugby shirts, A.Conan-Doyle`s hero in Saville Row suits.

UGH!!

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: nboldock
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 09:48 AM

He'll probably *survive* as well... damn fat fingers.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: nboldock
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 09:47 AM

I'm all for Radders myself - a smart, knowledgable and witty presenter, and a folkie to boot.

He once described being bottom of the bill at Cambridge FF (as frontman of the Family Mahone) as the highlight of his career, such is his love of folk. He led the Cambridge FF coverage on Sky Arts this year and did a pretty good job in my opinion.

Change is inevitable - I've nothing against Mike Harding but the show has, over the years, become many things but certainly not exciting. Harding's not being abandoned to a life of penury sleeping in a cardboard box under Charing Cross bridge (as Christy Moore might put it) - I think he's probably going to surive, don't you?

Embrace the change, and give Radcliffe a chance. You might just be pleasantly surprised.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Ralphie
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 09:33 AM

I don't understand the problem. The BBC have have a decision. They are not going to change their collective minds. So, Get over it people. 15 years was a pretty good innings. I've worked with both Mike H and Mark R. Very different, but, very knowledgable in their own ways. I'm ambivalent about the change. but, one thing I'm sure of is that the Beeb will not change their minds.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 09:16 AM

You miss the point - you don't have to advertise People Music, because People Music just happens regardless. It's feral, populist, and (in general) anthema to folk fans. It doesn't matter if it's a bunch of street musicians inspiring spontaneous flash-mobs outside the Arndale circa 2012 or an old shepherd singing ballads to his flocks in the Wild Hills o' Wannies circa 1912, the context defines the potency of the content which, once removed from that context, no longer strictly exists.

but the people also happen to like BRITNEY SPEARS and tie the yellow ribbon and tiptoe through the tulips

Style / quality of the music is immaterial here; all that matters is its context & ability to TRANSFIGURE the CEREMONIAL / RITUAL experience. Is this the place to remind you all that BRITNEY SPEARS is an anagram of Presbyterians?? I think Folk is not just religious, but is very Presbyterian to boot.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: theleveller
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 08:52 AM

"you end up with many punters wanting their money back"

But if you advertised it as "folk" you'd get bugger all people who wouldn't want to pay and even then would demand their money back if it didn't fit their particual definition of folk.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: The Sandman
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 08:22 AM

blandiver, true but the people also happen to like BRITNEY SPEARS and tie the yellow ribbon and tiptoe through the tulips, so your People music can include and embrace much. the problem is if you put a notice advertising people music tonight at joe bloggs pub, none would know whether they were going to get britney spears, or tie yelow ribbon, or a 30 minute improvisation of winner takes all or matty groves, you end up with many punters wanting their money back

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 19 Nov 12 - 07:08 AM

Q: since when have their been any boffins in charge of deciding whats folk.

A : Since the Boffins invented Folk in the first place of course! Before the boffins came up with Folk, people just got on with the craft of making music, which, for the most part, they still do...

*

On Saturday we stood in the freezing night winds someplace outside the Arndale in Manchester watching some East European buskers: three trumpets, one electric keyboard, one accordion, playing a very blurred feral organic 30-minute extended improvisation on Abba's 'The Winner Takes it All' whilst one of the city's street dancers organised passers-by into cordinated moves until there were maybe ten or so people were doing a routine that looked like they'd been rehearsing for months. The crowds just loved it. And no Boffins in sight to put in the specimen jar to fret over its defination in the laboratory - this was a timeless scene of human music making on a human scale. I wouldn't insult it by calling it 'Folk' - just People Music.

People Music is joyful, profound, ceremonial, celebratory, spontaneous, immediate, life affirming. People Music is music by The People, for The People - as long there have been People, there has been People Music; as long as there are People there will be People Music. Folk is People Music gone bad; Folk is People Music taken from the People and made into something it was never meant to be. Folk is People Music defined & collected & contained - which is something you can never do with People Music because true People Music will always beggar belief, let alone description and definition. It is wild, it is real, it is wonderful, and it is Alive - all the things Folk once was before the boffins nicked off the people for their posh kids to play with... Not that The People seem overly bothered mind, they're too busy dancing & singing to even notice.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 02:56 PM

'probably knows which one of Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee plays gob-iron (which is more than I did).'


Of course its possible to go through life thinking that Martin Carthy and Nic Jones developed their guitar technique from ther reed cutters of Norfolk, and despising all transatlantic influence. Many UK Mudcatters do.

Its possible to elect a politician who believes armageddon is imminent as President of the United States. Possible to have an astronaut fly to the moon, believibg that he will find a planet made of green cheese.

Sanity has its place though.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 01:52 PM

Steve, he lost his job, three months notice is not much consolation.its the equivalent to being sacked, your quibbling
his successor was described as popular with radio 2 listeners., god help us.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 01:25 PM

Mike Harding campaign activists should quietly count their blessings
he survived so long
in such a back-stabbing cut-throat youth fetishising media show business....

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 01:16 PM

why was he sacked and what qualifications has his successor got?I have never heard of himis he a bbc joe bloggs

He wasn't sacked, he was given three months notice that his freelance contract was not being renewed in a personal phone call from a BBC manager.

His successor, Mark Radcliffe, has presented coverage from Cambridge, shown awareness of and interest in folk music, has been a member of festival band The Family Mahone, and probably knows which one of Sonny Terry and Brownie McGee plays gob-iron (which is more than I did).

I have no personal axe to grind with Mike Harding and will be the first to complain if the new Mark Radcliffe Show on Radio 2 is dumbed down compared to Mike Harding's tenure, but as Smooth Operations are still producing the show and I'm old enough to remember the horror expressed when Harding took over the show and again when the title changed from 'Folk On 2' to 'the Best Of Folk and Acoustic Music', this is several waves short of being a very small storm in a very tiny teacup. compare and contrast with Danny Baker's sacking from. Radio London, which WAS badly handled by the BBC.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 12:44 PM

If you ask me, that's why we are behind Mike Harding. We know that Mike's bum itches just like ours does.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 12:41 PM

You Canadians are SOoooo LUCKY!

Can you imagine having to ask about civilised shits and uncivilised shits.

Queues for the lavs are an intrinsic part of English folk music - particularly for women. Not just folk festivals - but quite often the pubs where folk music takes place, you see the ladies lined up a the interval waiting for a short squat on a warm seat -unidentifiable yet corrosive smells grabbing at the throat. The toilet paper either in mini size or completely missing - or even worse, suspiciously damp.

Not for Canadians the itchy bum that accompanies so much of our great music. No wonder Canadians are so perky.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 10:49 AM

LOL

Thanks, both.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 10:13 AM

an uncivilised shit = anti social feral children & teenagers

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: Will Fly
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 09:48 AM

Bruce - it's like what bears do in the woods...

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,999
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 09:46 AM

What exactly is an uncivilised shit (politicians aside)?

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 09:34 AM

The Bionic Festival Goer.

His powers of auditory endurance are legendary and he can go for a weekend at at a time without a civilised shit.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 08:36 AM

since when have their been any boffins in charge of deciding whats folk.
dont you mean bigots

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: The Sandman
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 08:34 AM

i have never listened to the mike harding show[i live in ireland].
on the occasions i saw him live,I thought he was good performer, but why was he sacked and what qualifications has his successor got?I have never heard of himis he a bbc joe bloggs

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 18 Nov 12 - 03:53 AM

It's already been decided; & like most decisions in this world it comes from on high and it isn't put to a public vote (who wouldn't bother to turn out if it was). Otherwise, the equation is simple: The People create the music, and The Boffins decide if it's folk or not.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 09:42 AM

I am, because nobody decides for me what is and what isn't folk music!

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 08:42 AM

'Frankly, if I want to listen to folk music, I go to a gig, listen to a CD, watch it on youtube or listen to recordings of independant origin

And if I want to listen to folk music I sing it myself'

And if I want to listen to folk music. I ask Richard Bridge and Jim Carroll. Consult the 1954 definition......after all, are we listening to folk music or just f---ing about?

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: stallion
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 07:05 AM

mmmmmmm      (that is me thinking) It was the manner of the way it was done, like all the employees of firms going bust. Just not the right way to treat people.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Purist Pete
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 07:02 AM

And if I want to listen to folk music I sing it myself.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 06:29 AM

Frankly, if I want to listen to folk music, I go to a gig, listen to a CD, watch it on youtube or listen to recordings of independant origin.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,raymond greenoaken
Date: 17 Nov 12 - 06:18 AM


That sounds just enough like a compliment to let it pass...

>And kate and Anna McGarrigle - really who cares which was which, and who was who.<

One trusts that Loudon Wainwright had a clearer grasp of the issue than I did.

>Being a folk music fan and not knowing that Brownie played the guitar is like claiming to be a jazz fan and thinking Louis Armstrong played the ukulele.<

You mean he didn't — ever?

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 01:35 PM

'"Ahead of the curve" — what's the problem? It's a vivid and economical expression whose meaning is perfectly clear. I admit it — I've used it myself.'

Could it be you're so far ahead of the curve Ray, you're almost round the bend?

And kate and Anna McGarrigle - really who cares which was which, and who was who.

But Brownie McGhee was an enormously influential musician. And I don't mean just in America. I would be surprised if Martin Carthy and Nic Jones didn't pick up a trick or two. bert Jansch described him as his main influence.

Being a folk music fan and not knowing that Brownie played the guitar is like claiming to be a jazz fan and thinking Louis Armstrong played the ukulele.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 10:51 AM

I would have happily taken over Folk on 2 from Mike Harding, but I would have still got him in to noodle on his guitar as he rapped the charts - to me, that's as iconic as 'Sailing By' & 'The Shipping Forecast'. My idea of The Perfect Folk Show would be 80% archive field-recordings (the 'Theme Tune' would be Josesph Taylor singing Brigg Fair), 10% Traddy floor singers from around the clubs, 5% alt. folk weirdness & vintage pastoral electronica / prog all mashed up into a Westwood style collage with 5% random wildlife recordings & church bells. Is that 100%? I never did have too good a concept of number...

Tim Westwood is my radio hero, BTW - his passion for the music is on a par with the respect he's got from the Hip-Hop community. Mike's like that too actually - as much as I like Mark Radcliffe, I doubt you'd find him in a session with the great Hugh O' Donnell & pals in the Marine Hall bar over the Fylde weekend. And whilst Mike didn't play our album on his show, that's cool by me because I can say that whilst Radio 2 didn't play it, Radio 3 played it twice! Kudos & Credibility! Coo. So that's THREE TIMES I've been on Radio Three in 12 years - getting to be a habit...

PS - Here's the first: http://soundcloud.com/ploughmyth-histories/boca-chica-from-the-moon-part.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 10:43 AM

"Ahead of the curve" is a piece of management jargon meaning absolutely nothing. It's the sort of English that would have Orwell rolling in his grave.

What's interesting about the Controller's reply is that nowhere in it is there a solid reason for exchanging Harding for Radcliffe. There are all sorts of statements about increasing the amount of folk on radio, bringing it into the "mainstream" while retaining the specialist hour, what a wonderful job Harding did - blah, blah, blah - but not one single explanation as to why Harding had to go. I'm not bothered either way, but it's interesting to see the main point of people's anger being sidestepped.

In any case, listening to Radio 2 is like wallowing in a big, soapy tub of warm water while slurping a milk shake drizzled with chocolate and sugar lumps - good luck to you if that's what turns you on. I'm quite fond of blues as well, but I can't be bothered with Paul Jones's hour either. And as for Classic FM... don't get me started!

Signed,

His Majestic Grumpiness from Sussex

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,raymond greenoaken
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 10:06 AM

"Ahead of the curve" — what's the problem? It's a vivid and economical expression whose meaning is perfectly clear. I admit it — I've used it myself.

As for the Sonny & Brownie confusion: until Kate McGarrigle died a couple of years back I was convinced that she was Anna and that Anna was Kate. I don't think it affected my enjoyment of either...but I suppose it might have eroded my credibility if I was the presenter of the Mike Harding Show. Another pearl from the same programme — "It's called Tears Of Lot's Wife and I like it an awful, awful lot." (uttered without an atom of irony)

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 08:58 AM

Well that's what you get with institutions like the BBC these days, Al - marketing crap, management speak. Just wait until you see the words "blue sky thinking"... Bullshit bingo at its worst. I just thank my lucky stars I worked for the Corp in the '60s and early '70s, when it wasn't quite as riddled with TMC - Total Management Crap. The rot set in when McKinsey Management Associates were asked to do a review of the Beeb in the early '70s, and continued years later with Birt and his ilk.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 08:39 AM

I never really felt sorry for Mike Harding up til now.

However the poor sod seems to be working for someone who wants to stay 'ahead of the curve'.

'ahead of the curve' - I think we're talking total prick. That is 'dickspeak' of a very high order.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 08:27 AM

.... poll ????

I meant to type 'petition' -

I must need stronger mugs of tea to wake me up these days..

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,punkfolkrocker
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 08:20 AM

If only such outraged campaign activists & 'well meaning' poll organisers
would put as much effort into spotlighting unfair dismissals
in their local shops, factories, and service industries...

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,B.B.Cone
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 07:14 AM

It doesn't sound like he was kidding - listened to it again on the I-player (about half way through) to be sure.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 04:55 AM

I loved his live appearances too, Will...and also his regular columns in TGO (an outdoors magazine).

I enjoyed it when he parodied the name of TGO's editor, Cameron McNeish, into Macaroon Camiknickers, as I understand from mutual acquaintances that McNeish *hated* it but felt unable to edit it without making himself appear hyper-sensitive. Harding knew this and tried to get it into every column at least once!

I agree that the manner of his termination could have been handled much better....but this is the BBC, bastion of Birt-speak, top-heavy hierarchical structures and (surprising for such a liberal-appearing organisation whose "house journal" is considered to be The Guardian) over-deference to authority.

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: Will Fly
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 04:40 AM

Like Rob, I was never ever impressed with Mike Harding's show any time I ever took the trouble to have a listen. The live Mike Harding I saw and loved in Lancashire folk clubs all those years ago was witty, irreverent, musically talented and huge fun. The Mike Harding show was dull as ditchwater, like most of Radio 2's output. He'd been doing it for 15 years, for heaven's sake - why all the fuss about a change - particularly if, as it's been hinted at, he didn't even get to choose the playlist?

The anger seems to have been generated not so much at the fact that he's going, but in the manner of his going - against his wishes, apparently and somewhat impersonally. So - if he'd gone agreeably and with a nice little cuddle from Smooth Ops management, it would all have been OK, eh?

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 04:20 AM

You're kidding , B.B.Cone, right? Or maybe Harding was?

The reply from the Controller sounds reasonable to me. I'll wait and see what 2013 brings, rather than jump into a knee-jerk reaction. I was never that impressed with Mike Harding's show anyway, and as the reply states, all programmes periodically undergo "facelifts", changes of presenter etc. We might be pleasantly surprised!

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: GUEST,B.B. Cone
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 04:12 AM

Would this be the Mike Harding who, in last Wednesday's programme, described Brownie McGhee as his all-time blues-harp favourite, with McGhee being accompanied by Sonny Terry on guitar?

Subject: RE: Mike Harding Campaign - get him reinstated
From: Mr Happy
Date: 16 Nov 12 - 03:51 AM

Landscaping??

Subject: RE: MIKE HARDING Campaign
From: GUEST,Malcolm Storey
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 08:22 PM

Well I have read the letter and can only say that if the man means what he says - and let's face it, it is on record - then we should at least give it a chance.

The only reservation I would have would be the reference to "modern folk music" - but then I would have would I not!

Subject: RE: MIKE HARDING Campaign
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 04:59 PM

Right, come on then everyone, join up!
I've just joined..("Oh, NO!" they cry in unison)

Now, come along, don't be shy, or miserable...go and talk to David who runs the page...just press the 'join' button, top righthand side...

The Facebook page calling for Mike to be reinstated

Subject: RE: MIKE HARDING Campaign
From: GUEST,UK FOLK MUSIC
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 04:30 PM

LINK TO THE MIKE HARDING STORY

Subject: RE: MIKE HARDING Campaign
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 03:07 PM

I think this is the link the OP meant to put here.

Subject: RE: MIKE HARDING Campaign
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 02:47 PM

I(t would be more to the point to start a petition to get rid of Smooth Operations. They are the real fly in the ointment.

Subject: RE: MIKE HARDING Campaign
From: GUEST,999
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 02:05 PM

The unnamed guest was me. Is the OP ever gonna come back and let us read the letter?

Subject: RE: MIKE HARDING Campaign
From: GUEST,Blandiver
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 12:35 PM

There's a letter, and a very considerate reply, in the new Radio Times. The way things are headed, you'd think anyone with any sense would be glad to disassociate themselves from the BBC...

Subject: RE: MIKE HARDING Campaign
From: Mr Happy
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 12:31 PM

Not in UK eiher

Subject: RE: MIKE HARDING Campaign
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 12:28 PM

That link doesn't work from here in Quebec, Canada, fyi.

Subject: MIKE HARDING Campaign
From: GUEST,UK Folk Music
Date: 15 Nov 12 - 12:25 PM

There is a very active campaign on Facebook to get Mike Harding reinstated on his Radio Two show. One of the active campaigners wrote to the controller of Radio 2 and got a reply. We got permission from the recipient to publish the reply on UK Folk Music.
Please have a read: BBC Radio 2 Controller's Reply