BS: Are we less civilised?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we less civilised?
From: number 6
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 01:48 PM

"Are we less civilised?"

civilized as in having an advanced or humane culture, society,

Hmmmmmm .... has the human race ever been truly civilized?

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: Are we less civilised?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 01:12 PM

Well, there are still Irish jokes around, the same as there are MiL jokes, but they have become less socially acceptable, and not at all acceptable on mainstream UK TV. Same with jokes about physically handicapped people, which I remember as a child. They have now totally gone, and a good thing too.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we less civilised?
From: ollaimh
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 01:03 PM

gee i never noticed anyone stopping irish jokes. i hear and read them all the time.

our culture was making progress in the sixties ans early seventies. there has been a right wing backlash that has made racism and corporate greed normal now.

here on mudcat bigots repeat stuff from racists like . "obama is a third generation socialist". or "obama is a national socialist"

and every time a posting is made about a positive action by natives helping others the chorus arises to slander natives with every not so subtle claim there is--whether its relevant or not,

tolerance is disappearing. education and knowledge are disappearing. the worst racist ideas are recycled all the time. some one just posted on mudcat that his family worked land that was red bog never touched by natives. this is the old racist cannard that |they weren\t her before us"   . they were jst passing though, thet israelis use dgaianst nomadic arabs and white south africans use against the natives of the cape. this is saying that because they used the land differently than use they didn't exist. do people understand this meand that people who are using theior land in a culturlly different manner, do not exist. its he oldest racist arguement there is, but people still recycle it.

i watch american politics and gordon gecko almost won the presidency!! one of the leveraged buy out exploitive capitalists(romney) almost won.   people forget in a week.

i recomend everyone read "unconscious cicilization" by john raulston saul, and if you are braqve and ambitious read his book"voltaire's bastards"

in anglo culture, english canada, the united states, britain, australis and new zealand. plain meaning has been so debased that most people no longer have the intellectual tools to even discuss the problems. this is widespread ignorance that rivals the dark ages. we live in a culture that has made warf in every corner of the globe, and people call it freedom. the british and american governments have committed war crimes and murder in almost every nation and people call that enforcing human rights. george orwell was an optimist when he wrote 1984

Subject: RE: BS: Are we less civilised?
From: meself
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 12:54 PM

I'm not determined to sneer, but neither am I determined to carry on an argument that's going nowhere in particular, so ... have a nice day.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we less civilised?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 12:45 PM

That was a seperate part of my question. The clue was in the separate peragraph. If you're determined to sneer, please feel free to do so, it lessens your argument and not mine.
I posit a thought, you reply with a sneer, which does not address the OP.
Please try to be positive

Subject: RE: BS: Are we less civilised?
From: meself
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 12:37 PM

" Now that it is non PC to make Irish or other racial jokes, what happens? ... It's all changed from laughing at the racial stereotypes, to laughing with them.
The same dichotomy exists linguistically, where forbidden words that were once used by "us", to describe "them", are now common currency amongst those who would bridle, were we to use them, on them.
It's becoming, don't laugh at us, unless we give permission, for you to do so."

Yes, how could I ever have leapt to that idea?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we less civilised?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 11:44 AM

Nobody mentioned race. So that's why you don't understand. One wonders why you lept to that idea?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we less civilised?
From: meself
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 10:24 AM

So, let me see if I understand: you feel that you will face social opprobrium if you use certain racial epithets, and are frustrated that members of the races that are the subject of said epithets can themselves use those epithets and not face the same social opprobrium that you would face using them, and you wonder if this is a sign of the decline of our civilization. Um ... nope, don't understand.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we less civilised?
From: GUEST,999
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 10:06 AM

'I am civilized because I have no idea who Ricky Gervaise is!'

Well, I guess that makes me civilized, too.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we less civilised?
From: Bill D
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 09:48 AM

I am civilized because I have no idea who Ricky Gervaise is!

As to PC jokes & remarks... that is a perennially changing cultural situation with no easy resolution. Those who care about respecting others will usually manage to avoid offense... bearing in mind that some make special effort to BE offended.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we less civilised?
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman sans Cookie
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 09:35 AM

PS: Are you sure RG's smugness is terminal

We can but hope.

Subject: RE: BS: Are we less civilised?
From: gnomad
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 07:24 AM

Romans watched gladiatorial combat (to the death) for entertainment, heaven knows what they got up to in the dark ages.

Later hangings were common entertainment, bear baiting, watching the 'lunatics' in Bedlam, hunting as sport (and I don't mean for the pot, not opening that can of worms) cock fighting, one could go on, seemingly without limit.

Much of what we regard as entertainment seems, historically, to be based on cruelty of one kind or another, just the object and the means of that cruelty changes over time. I don't think we are getting worse, but no better either.

PS: Are you sure RG's smugness is terminal, I had thought it merely perennial?

Subject: RE: BS: Are we less civilised?
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 07:05 AM

I still like to believe in Robert Owen's view that given the right environment, humans have a natural tendency towards cooperation and kindness.

Subject: BS: Are we less civilised?
From: John MacKenzie
Date: 11 Dec 12 - 06:55 AM

The growth of casual cruelty, and public humiliation, in the name of entertainment, shows just how selfish, inconsiderate and uncivilised we have become.
Even characters like that portrayed by the terminally smug Ricky Gervaise, mock the socially inadequate, and hold their frailties up to the world, for them to laugh at.
Take a look at what comedy has become. Now that it is non PC to make Irish or other racial jokes, what happens? Father Ted, and Mrs Brown's Boys! It's all changed from laughing at the racial stereotypes, to laughing with them.
The same dichotomy exists linguistically, where forbidden words that were once used by "us", to describe "them", are now common currency amongst those who would bridle, were we to use them, on them.
It's becoming, don't laugh at us, unless we give permission, for you to do so.
So look around, before you laugh at something, that the PC brigade might disapprove of ;)
We all do it, and I think that it's not the laughing that's wrong. It's the feeling guilty afterwards, that seems slightly odd.