Help with recording

Subject: Help with recording
From: Clifton53
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 08:52 AM

O.K. folks, who can help me. I wanna get myself on tape somehow. How do these mini-home recorders work? If I buy one, what else do I need(Besides a mike). What about a real pro studio? How costly ? Can I hire studio time just to fiddle around? I've been playing for years, but I have little recent experience. I'm thinking along the lines of development,not topping the charts.

Thanks, Clifton

Subject: RE: Help with recording
From: Bugsy
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 09:06 AM

Clifton - where do you hail from. I'm sure that there are lots of us who have made recordings independently but It's no use me telling you what to do in Australia if you live in Greenland. You'll get much better advice from someone who lives in your locale, about studios, etc..

cheers

Bugsy

Subject: RE: Help with recording
From: John Wood
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 03:20 PM

As Bugsy says.....Depends where you are.
I produced a sampler CD with 26 different artists on it a couple of years back.
We did the whole album in the studio,BUT everything was VERY WELL REHEARSED.
I certainly wouldn't recommend hiring a studio for just experimenting.
Best advice I can give is to get hold of a MINI Disc,with record function,and of course a GOOD mic.Then you can experiment to your hearts content,and if you get any good recordings it's possible to ``doctor´´them afterwards.
Got plenty of other tips,but this'll do for starters.
Greetings John.

Subject: RE: Help with recording
From: Melbert
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 06:03 PM

John,

I'd be interested to learn more about "doctoring them afterwards". I've just invested in a minidisc and mic. As fas as I can see the only option I have is to play the recording back into my sound card and edit it on the computer. The only editing facilities on the minidisc itself seem to be changing track order and inserting / deleting track marks.

If you can offer any advise in this area I'd be grateful.

Subject: RE: Help with recording
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 06:12 PM

For convenience and portability there's a lot to be said for just using a mini cassette-recorder, with a built in microphone, using standard sized audio-cassettes, up to 90 minutes a side.

Stick it down on the table next to where you are playing or singing, and it picks it up pretty well. Not hi-fi, but good enough for collecting and swapping songs and tunes, and it fits in your pocket since it's not much bigger than a pack of cigarettes, and much better for you. The one I've got cost £24.

Subject: RE: Help with recording
From: Mudjack
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 06:34 PM

Clifton53,
I went back looking for some related threads and can't retrieve them. I think it was Bert and Dave Swan who threw some neat stuff about using your PC with a recorable CD.
My experiece is to do a project for yourself with no intentions of selling the units, then use a basic tape recorder and reproduce them at home. You won't like it, you just can't perform your music and do all the tech stuff with any kind of results. I spent $500 for a Yamaha 4 trk sound on sound and spent many hours putting music together. And when finished felt like I really cheated myself. I shoud have spent the money for a small studio and found a folkie who will produce the project. That costs money but good money spent.
If you are planning to sell these units, be sure to have enough money to follow through with pressing at least 500 CD's. A $3000 bill will be a good ball park figure. The CDs' are the selling point to get yourself booked at venues. With out the CD, concert presenters go "ho-hum..."I"ll dig around and see if I can find the old thread. I lost it when I crashed my PC. I want to find it since I was supposed to make contact with these Catters when I travel to the bay area.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Help with recording
From: Mudjack
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 06:49 PM

It was Fadac and Alan of Austrailia. I hope this clickie thing takes.
Click here
Mudjack

Subject: RE: Help with recording
From: John Wood
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 07:00 PM

I'd agree with McGrath if all you want to do is practice or hear what arangements sound like.
Trouble is you get tape hiss!
That doesn't matter if it's``just for fun´´.
BUT if you want to use the recordings for something a bit more serious at later date,then mini disc is a good media.
Believe me,I learned that from experience,having recorded the first three Irish Music Festivals we had here in Oslo.
I did that onto ordinary tape(very good quality),and regret very much afterwards that I didn't go digital.

Melbert:When I mentioned``doctoring´´,there are several things you can do.
I've got some very good``live´´recordings by plugging a mini disc straight into the mixing desk(I have the advantage of being the sound guy sometimes)and I might add.....with the artist/groups permission.
You can just let the disc run,and chop it up into individual tracks afterwards.
I have a SONY MZ-R30 Portable recorder and use a Sony stereo ECM-MS957 mic.which gives excellent recordings.
The recorder notes the times of recording automatically on the disc,and you can write in song titles.
In adition I have a Yamaha MD4(which is a 4 track digital mixer)and a Yamaha DigitalReverb.
By running the mini disc into the MD4,I can then adjust tones,reverb. ect.

You can of course plug the mini-disc into your sound card and edit there.There are plenty of good programs on the market.

Greetings John

Subject: RE: Help with recording
From: Escamillo
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 11:13 PM

Clifton, may be an intermediate solution works best, as it worked for me several times. Don't hire a complete studio, but hire a technician with a thing called PORTA-STUDIO (I think it is Yamaha) which cost is relatively low, which is truly portable, and allows to adjust reverb, pitch, reduce noise and mix with any source. The Porta-Studio produces excellent, almost professional cassetes or mini-disks, first at double sampling speed to improve quality, then at normal speed for listening.
I used Sony metal professional cassete tapes, and the quality was indistinguishable from commercial cassetes (not as high as CDs). He mixed my voice with a jazz band and it was excellent (the jazz band), and the cost was $ 30.- and a couple of beers for 90 minutes for three songs, trying to speed up things and not repeating too much.
Best regards,
Andrés Magré (tenor at a major choir, pretending to sing jazz)

Subject: RE: Help with recording
From: John Wood
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 06:12 AM

Thanks for linking that thread Mudjack.
I was in Cornwall on holiday when that came up and I missed it.

John.

Subject: RE: Help with recording
From: Frank Hamilton
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 04:48 PM

Hi,

I am just getting into this stuff. I have a Mac G3 and Performer software. I have a 21" monitor. I have a couple of servicable mics but I think that a great mic might be the most important part of the set-up. I have a burner which can do Red Book.

A lot has to do with what your recording goals are. Right now, I just want to make vocals with string instruments accompanying. I don't like most MIDI backgrounds that I've heard but a bass track is a good scratch track IMHO for rhythm. Getting a good sound out of a vocal and instrument is important to me. It's what I like to hear in a folk performance.

Keep it simple and good quality is my motto. Hard disk affords the ability to have random selection. It's got good editing too. Scuzzy ports are good for downloading to keep the disk free. There's also the pre-amplifier which creates the clean sound.

A lot of warming up (tube sounds) have to do with performance in my opinion.

Just getting my feet wet.

Frank Hamilton

Subject: RE: Help with recording
From: Bill Cameron
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 05:18 PM

Maybe I'm out of date here (what are this mini-disc thingy?) but I think a decent 4-track cassette recorder--ideally one that can run at either regular or double speed, but if that's not available, double speed is better sound quality is still an essential tool for pre-production--roughing out arrangements, and learning some of the basic techniques of multi-tracking--you __don't__ want to go into a studio at $50/hr or more with no idea what you're doing. My Tascam 244, if I could find a used one now, would probably go for $350-400 and its money well spent. I think prices have bottomed out on these because of their utility to musicians.

Get at least one decent mike--if you can't afford a $1000 AKG condenser mike, at least one or two SM57 or SM58--standard performing mikes--will be way lots better than those junkie little tape recorder mikes. The motto GIGO (garbage in garbage out) is very true here. You need to learn the tricks of getting a clean sound, and sycnhronizing your various tracks--using click tracks and ghost tracks. (And simple things like counting in and not making extraneous noises--both simple things that really are learned skills.

It's a lot of fun, really. You don't need to worry about effects when you're recording the tracks, that stuff comes later. First you get the sound clean, then you can mess it up.

If you just want to critique your own sound, or tape tunes to learn, a built-in mike is acceptable--but I would _never_ use one on a tape I wanted someone else to listen to and enjoy. Built-ins ALWAYS pick up motor noise from the cassette machine, and you are 100% guaranteed an ugly background noise when it is played on a decent stereo.

When you want to do a recording for release or serious promotion, a good producer/engineer is a godsend. But you can use the 4-track to learn the basics on your on time before you start paying him or her.

Good luck!

Bill

Subject: RE: Help with recording
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 11:11 PM

My local experience .......Here in Conecticut there are a pile of good little studios that can help one with either doing a "demo Tape"for $25.00 an hour or work twards your own cd $50.00 an hour.The difference in price has to do with the work put into setting mikes and getting a good EQ for what your doing...You just have to ask ypour self if your ready for that kind of thing...I dont think there is anything wrong in trying out the studio experience for a few hours one night to see what it's like...Just know that working with a good engineer/producer can be adictive Good luck and have some fun with it!!! Yours Guy

Subject: RE: Help with recording
From: Harvey Gerst
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 01:14 AM

Hi,

I am just getting into this stuff. I have a Mac G3 and Performer software. I have a 21" monitor. I have a couple of servicable mics but I think that a great mic might be the most important part of the set-up. I have a burner which can do Red Book.

A lot has to do with what your recording goals are. Right now, I just want to make vocals with string instruments accompanying. I don't like most MIDI backgrounds that I've heard but a bass track is a good scratch track IMHO for rhythm. Getting a good sound out of a vocal and instrument is important to me. It's what I like to hear in a folk performance.

Keep it simple and good quality is my motto. Hard disk affords the ability to have random selection. It's got good editing too. Scuzzy ports are good for downloading to keep the disk free. There's also the pre-amplifier which creates the clean sound.

A lot of warming up (tube sounds) have to do with performance in my opinion.

Just getting my feet wet.

Frank Hamilton

Does this mean the wedding is off?

Harvey Gerst