UK v US

Subject: UK v US
From: selby
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 01:21 PM

I work for a UK organisation that by the end of the year will be taken over by an American Company. I need help with. 1 They talk of work being fun, does that mean I will have to wear a red nose to work ? 2 Community does that mean I have to do thing after work in the comunity or does that mean work comunity? 3 Are there any cultural differences I should be aware off? 4 They are a Virginia based company is that good or bad? Keith

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: wildlone
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 01:38 PM

OK for you we were taken over by the French.wl.

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Barbara
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 01:51 PM

Uhm, it really depends on the company, selby. Can you say who it is? All the words you cited, without the context, could mean just about anything -- from "we are really open and will let you do whatever you want", to "we are going to hold your hand every minute".
Virginia? Well, you'll have to learn that 'yawl' is a collective noun meaning 'all of you' not a boat.
Blessings,
Barbara

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Little dorrit
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 02:21 PM

try not to worry Keith at selby - I used to work for american express who were great employers.

However, if your a racist class conscious bigot who believes woman should work twice as hard for less money than men, and that the public school you attended has more importance than your ability to do the job, then try to stick to one of our great british institutions- insurance or banking for example.

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 03:38 PM

Little Dorrit - you could always try Fords at a certain Essex town where the white stilletoe shoes are waiting to go dancing round the handbag......

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 04:07 PM

I left the company that I used to work for shortly after an American company bought something like 50% shares (this was about 10 years ago). They introduced a lot of changes such as Team Leaders instead of foremen...

I don't know whether this example is typical or not but I have yet to meet anyone who says that the changes made were for the better and I have often been told "that I ought to be glad that I'm not still there"... and the general feeling amongst the people I have spoken to was that the quality of the product deteriorated as a result.

This is just one company and I am only going by what I have been told - just hope it is not the norm and a lot of this probably was to do with the attitudes of UK management.

In my opinion, the company had started a policy of promoting "yes men" who didn't know how to do their jobs, people who could impress the management with fancy looking graphs that didn't really mean anything... long before there was any American inluence.

Jon

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 04:21 PM

Just to add to my last comments. My own feeling regarding quality was the worst thing that ever happend was BS5750 which I think later became ISO 9000.

Apart from the paperwork it created, it seemed to create an attitude whereby if the stanard was satisfied (ie do what we say we do), it was OK e.g. if a batch of a component came in and was not to drawing, if we tried some and they seemed OK, we could document this and use them and nobody would worry that they were no to standard.

I was involved in the MRP side and we began documenting every possible movement of material - I was the one who had to write it. We soon discovered grey areas - little things like no real system for tracking new revisions of components. Of coure we didn't fix these things, my task was then to rewrite that part of the manual in an ambiguous manner (or in some cases delete any reference to a particular procedure) so that we wouldn't get picked up when we were inspected (against our documentation).

Jon

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Melbert
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 04:46 PM

I had the opposite experience. I worked for an American Company (at a UK facility) who were taken over by a British outfit. Overall I preferred the American approach. Introduction of "team leaders" and concepts of "plant ownership" and "empowerment" are really developments of japanese work ethics, I think.

Now I work for a Swedish Company. Hmmmmmmm..........

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: SeanM
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 04:49 PM

Yeesh Jon... Are you sure you don't write for Dilbert?

In any case, if you want to see the worst-case scenario from working for American "enlightened" companies, Dilbert IS the place to go. Sad, but true.

M

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: wildlone
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 05:40 PM

To go back to "quality" and working from drawings I once worked as a turner/miller and I turned some shafts as per specification XX +/- .05mm. I then started to mill out some holes again XX +/- .05mm of course the shafts were to fit the holes. Not wanting to have to redo all the work I pointed out the problem, a XX +.01mm shaft will not fit a XX -.01mm hole in the old days you could just carry on and use your brain, make to fit. not now management had to come in the drawing had to be re-submited and re-drawn i was told later I should "not query the drawings as they are drawn by experts".
So def of expert:EX somthing that once was, but not now.
SPURT, a drip under pressure.

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: thosp
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 05:55 PM

Selby---- it usually means,that while they are talking to your face-- they have someone behind you-picking your pocket

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Mudjack
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 06:16 PM

I worked for a company here in America that was owned by German based Company. I gave them far more than they ever gave back. The European attitude that they can do no wrong was prevalent and a long time promised "profit sharing never happened. But the attitude of we are better than any else is what kept bothering me. The Germans pay Germans more than they pay Americans because they are Germans, not based on any qualifications.
selby, I hope your new company owners are fair and appreciate their workers, no matter which country they call home. Bottom line is we live in a world that demands fat profits. I think it has to do with the capitalistic system that breeds greed and is dominating the world. We can't fight it, we just have to sell our services to the highest bidder, that's just the price we pay for being in the working class.
Mudjack

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Melbert
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 06:23 PM

Mudjack - you speak of the European "can do no wrong" attitude. I don't think that's a fair generalisation, although I accept that it's typical of the Germans, and (Heaven knows) if the Lord had meant there to be a European Community then he would never have invented the French!
I have worked for the UK arms of more than one American organisation and the most frustrating common aspect of those experiences has been their refusal to accept that any suggestions originiating from outside the US are worth persuing.

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: bob schwarer
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 06:38 PM

"Yawl" is also used when addressing one person. Also, "All yawl" is often used.

Bob S.

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Freddie Fox
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 07:57 PM

I was amazed when I was in NY, at just how much misunderstanding there can be between two nations who supposedly speak a common language. eg. in England, a jerk is a hard tug...

I think that the only way round misunderstandings is to ask straight off, never mind embarrassment.

We have a loveley couple from America at our church at the moment, and it causes a great degree of hilarity at times [yes, in the services as well!]

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Malcolm Douglas
Date: 06 Nov 99 - 10:53 PM

Two nations separated by a common language?

And compulsory drug testing too, perhaps.

Malcolm

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Jeri
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 08:04 PM

Learn terms like "shifting paradigms" and "thinking outside the box." It isn't a "problem," it's an "opportunity."

Learn how to be positive, and stop saying things like "We can't do that," replacing it with "Sure, we could make that work as long as we killed Steve in accounting and replaced him with a money machine."

Read Dilbert.

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 09:12 PM

#1 - "work is fun" They want you to be an enthusiastic employee. They are afraid of employees being negative, demanding legal rights, etc.

#2 - "community" I don't know the context but they're hoping for a familial committment.

#3 - "cultural differences" You might expect the people with whom you will be dealing to try to explain everything in the context of sports. Understand that I'm not talking about highly paid scoccer stars who get drunk and beat up their wives for the national newspapers, but concepts such as "teamwork," "personal sacrifice" and "do-or-die execution" as opposed to individual effort.

#4 - "Virginia-based" Probably means scared to death of unions and that they are Christians in the sense they actually go to church on Sunday.

Good luck. If you need further advice, it costs $300 an hour. I'll be in the UK from 12 - 22NOV and available for consultation at a pub near you. Check here for my schedule.

If the situation becomes really acute, take 2 asparin and call me in the afternoon.

All the best,
Dan Milner

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: MandolinPaul
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 09:34 PM

On the other side of the coin, my sister-in-law moved to England a couple of years ago. One time she was discussing a co-worker with a group of people. She said that this guy spends a lot of time f***ing the dog. Now, here in Canada that means that this guy wastes time and doesn't do any work, however, her English co-workers had never heard this expression before, and instantly assumed that this was an accusation of the worst kind. They couldn't understand why he would find this dog so attractive.

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: MandolinPaul
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 09:38 PM

...and by the way, Mudjack and Melbert. Any statement that starts with "Germans are..." is a stereotype. Until you have met and grown to know every German on the planet, you are not qualified to make such a statement. Perhaps what Mudjack was trying to say was, "The German guys I worked for were assholes".

Disclaimer: No, I am not German. I'm just plain old southern Ontario white trash.

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 10:18 PM

Damn! When I saw this thread I was hoping Selby,wildlone, Parkes and the rest of the Brits were gonna challenge us to a basketball match. Or football. I think we can give em a run for their money at anything but irony. And maybe competitive rowing.

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: sophocleese
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 10:20 PM

Was that real football (soccer) you were thinking of LEJ or just American football?

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Guy Wolff
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 10:49 PM

I so enjoy both sides of the Atlantic for such diferent reasons...I find in the arts{I'm a potter/musician} that the great danger and sometimes downfall here in the US is self endulgence {Sorry all} and the great danger in the UK is contrivence{SP?}..Rediculous sweeping statments not worth much but the good news is when you start mixing the two cultures together they can enrich each other..Now play well together you guys and I'll look in when I get back from Honduras next week...All the best Guy

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 11:45 PM

Now sophocleese, it sounds like you are using irony there, and...as I said before...we'll concede that contest right up front!:>}

LEJ

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: sophocleese
Date: 07 Nov 99 - 11:57 PM

I'm Canadian LEJ. Just a spectator in this game :-)

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: sophocleese
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 12:03 AM

PS, I didn't even MENTION the CFL now did I?

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: BK
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 12:19 AM

NOBODY says what they really mean some of the time, but Brits do it best, among English speakers. This cultural difference is a major reason why we are "two nations seperated by one language." Talk to your parents generation who worked w/yanks during "The War," - hope they didn't deal w/too may "yank stole my girl" situations.

Brits & Yanks leave different things unsaid, Brits are often much more subtle.. & expect others to automatically know what is unmentionable, etc.. In general we don't, so you think we are idiots, or don't give a damn, we think you are arrogant & stuffy. Obviously there's a great deal more to it than just this, but I suspect both sides are sometimes right, sometimes wrong. I was never able to feel that I caught all the nuances of possible importance around me.. Also most yanks will NEVER fully comprehend the class thing, which may be eroded a little, but hardly gone, no matter how much we watch "Keeping Up Appearances," (I hate that woman! reminds me of my one sister!).

Cheers, BK

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Melbert
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 05:28 AM

For Paul S - Honestly, I was only trying to be provocative. I'm surprised you're the only one who rose to the bait!

Being a "brummie" (i.e. a native of Birmingham UK) I don't believe in such stereotyping - I've been the butt of such jokes more than once!

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Auxiris
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 08:03 AM

While you're waiting for the dust to settle, I think you might at least start off by being glad to still have a job (so many people in Europe don't have jobs these days). Then, if your job doesn't suit you anymore because your company has been taken over by Americans, maybe you'd be better off searching for employment elsewhere. Anyway, if you don't understand what someone says, doesn't it make sense to say so straight out? Give your new employers a chance. . . perhaps they're not so bad after all. Now, Melbert, when you say: ". . . if the Lord had meant (for?) there to be a European Community then he would never have invented the French!" it sounds as if you think that French people are the only flies in the European soup. Probably you are speaking of all the embargos and other assorted "food wars" that regularly tart up the European landscape (where's the beef?). Just wait till the "common money" issue rears its ugly head again! By the by, what are we all supposed to think about a certain European Community country that still occupies part of another European Community country. . .?

Auxiris

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: JedMarum
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 08:39 AM

In many American companies, these days, corporate culture has a dominant work-aholic streak. There are many individuals who work very long hours, work at home, seem to have nothing else in their life than their work. They are neccessarily more productive, either. Work and the work environment is their life!

I worked for an English company for many years. I found them very professional, productive, personable - and I truely enjoyed their sense of humor (once I understood it). My English friends respected the difference between their professional and personal worlds, and always seemed to have a life outside of the office!

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Liam's Brother
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 09:22 AM

...make that 2 aspirin...

All the best,
Dan

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Bert
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 09:34 AM

The most noticable thing you will find is that Americans WON'T LISTEN to you (probably because you are not American). You will have to say everything several times, very slowly.

And you will have to get used to calling a 'rubber' an 'eraser'.

Bert.

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: selby
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 01:04 PM

Lonesome if you can get together a team the I am sure the Brits will give you a game of water polo at Whitby Folk week in the North Sea. Brits will only be excluded if they bring a Doctors note!!!!!! Keith

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Lonesome EJ
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 01:12 PM

I have been to England several times, once when the temp was in the 90's, and have never seen anyone wade into the sea past their knees. So my question is this: when you play water polo, does all the bending over bother your back?

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Fortunato
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 02:34 PM

I don't know about the UK but two themes we hear a great deal about in US are DIVERSITY AND SEXUAL HARASSMENT. They serious and potentially volitile topics. In the US Women and minorities are often found in upper as well as middle management, as they should be. "Team Leaders": American companies are found of programs designed to increase quality and productivity. Essentially these programs are based on the principles of an American named Deming who influenced the Japanese in the '50s. Since then various incarnations of Quality Circles or Team Building have been sweeping through. There are success stories like Xerox and Ford and 3M. In other places the fads have come and gone only to be replaced by another. As cited about unions are week in VA.

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Little Dorrit
Date: 08 Nov 99 - 04:15 PM

Auxiris -what a contrary soul you are! so right in expounding the virtue of straight talking and immediatley wrap a riddle around the occupation of one EC country by another - can't think who you mean so spit it out man! Personally, I have always found we British very straighttalking- we are just selective. Ask a Scotsman and he will have no diffuculty in telling you how much he hates the english, a welshman too for that matter. An englishman who's team is knocked out of a sporting competition (and let's face it this happens a lot) will happily support both scotland and wales -we don't really hate anyone because quite frankly we don't really care about anyone either.Its why we come over as cold and arrogant because we are- but we do like an underdog.

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Auxiris
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 04:30 AM

So you want straight talking, do you? I thought I was only being discreet AND respecting other people's intelligence by not coming straight out and mentioning British occupation of Northern Ireland. I might add that if England should opt out when the common money issue comes up again in the next little while, Scotland might just decide they want REAL independence.

Auxiris

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: selby
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 05:55 AM

Back supports will be allowed over swimwear. Keith

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Auxiris
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 09:26 AM

I certainly hope so, Keith; it's getting pretty deep. Apologies to you for having gotten so riled up. Good luck with your new management bunch, I sincerely hope that they'll do right by you. Try to be patient with them, but if that doesn't work, have a look 'round for another job.

best, Auxiris

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Roger the skiffler
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 09:32 AM

...and I'm too polite to mention US occupation of Puerto Rico and their unwelcome occupation of part of Cuba....

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: kendall
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 03:43 PM

I hear so many sniping remarks from the English, I'm wondering if maybe you would like to have another go at us? I also wonder if our arrogant pain in the ass attitude was inherited from our English ancestors?

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Bert
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 03:46 PM

Oh! you just haven't got the hang of that English sense of humour.

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Pete M
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 07:52 PM

To paraphrase Flanders and Swan: "It's not that you're wicked or naturally bad, It's knowing you're foreign that makes you so mad!"

Pete M

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 08:07 PM

Ah, two nations divided by a single language.....

And to also paraphrase Flanders and Swan - if we win something, it is always 'another triumph for Great Britain' but if we don't win, 'England loses again'!

Zenophobes of the world don't unite!!

And why DO you sing your anthem to 'God save the King'?

I was hoping for a nice comparison of TV shows actually, but probably just as well when I remember just what I shouted at Fresh Prince the other night....

LTS

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Jon Freeman
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 08:51 PM

Thanks SeanM and Jeri for the references to Dilbert. I used to read it in my parents Daily Telegraph but I have not read it for a couple of years.I have just been looking through the ones on the web. As I think you have probably guessed, Dilbert is well suited to my sense of humour (or is it my cynical outlook?).

Jon

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: InOBU
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 10:12 PM

Well fellow worker... A piece of advice from an international, though rather small union,today, which got its start in the US, and was brought to Ireland by James Connolly - founder of the Irish Transportation Union (and the IRA as well - well the Irish Peoples Army)anyway, the Industrial Workers of the World (wobblies)... and always a good idea, especially when working for yanks, SLOW DOWN, THE JOB YOU SAVE MAY BE YOUR OWN!

Good luck, we all need it Yours in the One Big Union InOBU Larry Otway

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: annamill
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 11:03 PM

You know, I've worked for American's most of my life and it's not too bad. I've had friends here that have worked for the British (Morgan Stanley) and they work loooong hours. We've been spoiled I guess. We work mostly 8, but in NY it's 7 hours a day. The managers in our companies all have to go to sexual harrassment seminars. Not to learn how, they already know that, but to learn how not to. ;-)

We have many vacation days, unlimited sick days, outragous salaries, fantastic health benefits, etc. They don't know who you are either, so unless they have an English traitor amongst the uppers, you will totally be able to take advantage of them. Just "accent" at them and they'll melt.

Unless, of course, you immediate boss is a woman. Then run! American woman have learned to be tough and they cannot be fooled. We have a saying here in Corporate America, If you're a man, you're ambitious. If you're a woman, you're a "Bitch". When I was in charge, I had a saying over my desk. "Be a bitch and make 'em like it".

Well, anyway, just lay back and enjoy it. We ain't too bad. We're probably just like you, mostly. American silliness..we tend to think anyone with an English accent must be intelligent. ;-)

Love, annap

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: Melbert
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 03:20 AM

Let's be hones here - does it really make any difference if your coprporate bosses are Amarican, British, French, German or even Martian? They're still the bosses who pick up the tab and call the tune......
We the unwilling, led by the unknowing, have been doing so much, with so little, for so long, that we are now qualified to do almost anything with nothing.

Subject: RE: UK v US
From: selby
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 01:00 PM

Many thanks for yawl comments,having within the company I worked for being through team leaders , PDP's & PRP's CIG groups, change angents, quality circles back to control command (with scores to settle by some managers). I was attempting to get the feel of where we were heading this time with our new bosses from friends out there in mudcat land .To quote our out going boss when he did a complete shift in attitudes "whilst the pendulum swings the clock ticks" I and many others look forward to working with our new bosses I hope thier humour matches ours on the mudcat. Many thanks Keith