Folk songs with 3/4 time signature

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: GUEST,Grishka
Date: 29 May 13 - 05:12 PM

The uke should not be compared to the recorder, but it has something in common with the tin whistle: being primarily optimized for affordability (hence "penny whistle"), only secondarily for ease of playing. The "re-entrant" tuning makes for cheaper strings and less demand on the stability of the body.

Eventually both instruments developed their own cultures, characterized by slight self-irony even in the hands of virtuoso players. Comparable to designer jeans or gourmet pizzas.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Northerner
Date: 29 May 13 - 12:46 PM

Thank you for all the song suggestions.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Tootler
Date: 29 May 13 - 07:53 AM

Tootler, i do not know what kind of thinking you are talking about, but   i disagree with you, i think using the uke like a small guitar is excellent for small children, small children can also learn the uke in its traditional format with re entrant tuning, why on earth cannot not be used in two different ways.

Dick, I have on many occasions come across the attitude; "OK, they can play the recorder until they are big enough to learn a 'proper' instrument." As if a recorder was not a proper instrument with it's own techniques and repertoire.

That's why I'm against using the baritone uke as a stepping stone to guitar. It smacks of the same attitude. Yes there are similarities between recorder & flute oboe or clarinet but there are also differences. They are not that great that transition from one to another poses a major obstacle but what really sticks in my gullet is the attitude that the recorder is not a proper instrument. I can see the possibility of the same attitude developing about the ukulele.

There is another possibility. There is a guitarlele, a six string instrument size of a tenor ukulele. It is tuned ADGCEA, so the top four strings are the same as standard ukulele and the six strings have same relationship as the guitar so they can learn chord shapes and picking patterns which are adaptable to guitar should they wish.

OTOH why not just let them learn ukulele, they can still learn the basic techniques and if they wish to take up guitar later, they can and keep on with the ukulele. After all that's what George Harrison did and it seems the uke was always his real love. I don't think the difference in tuning is a major issue. The relationship between the strings is the same. Several of the members of my ukulele group started on guitar and they have adapted no bother. To me it's like transferring between descant/tenor and treble or bass recorder - same fingerings, different notes (or chords).

Geoff

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Ron Davies
Date: 29 May 13 - 07:28 AM

Lots of Carter family songs (which often have a lot in common with 19th century parlor songs--or even originated that way, often with the melody simplified in Carter Family arrangements.   "I'll Be All Smiles Tonight", "Anchored in Love", "That Will Be Heaven To Me", "Whispering Hope", "Mother Was A Lady" (chorus only), "Where Is My Boy Tonight?", "Give Me The Roses While I Live", etc. It's a long list.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Green Man
Date: 29 May 13 - 04:37 AM

Lavender blue.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Northerner
Date: 28 May 13 - 11:38 AM

Thank you all. To enter into the intruments fray, as it were, I have 2 ukuleles, one a soprano and the other a concert, both in standard tuning. I have 4 guitars, but one is a tenor guitar.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: PHJim
Date: 27 May 13 - 05:20 PM

Sorry, I should've tried to find a waltz.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: PHJim
Date: 27 May 13 - 05:19 PM

Grimes' Times by Tiny Grimes

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: PHJim
Date: 27 May 13 - 05:13 PM

Jazz guitarist Tiny Grimes played a tenor guitar tuned Chicago-style DGBE.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 May 13 - 03:13 PM

ah jazz guitarists often use just four strings either the bottom four the top 4 or the middle four, so the posibilities are there to tune eadg or adgb or dgbe or use these intervals but not necessarily the exact tuning, and use as a jazz rhythm instrument

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Johnny J
Date: 27 May 13 - 09:36 AM

Also, even although the notes of the(part)chords *may* be the same, you will often have to rearrange your fingers to play the full chord on a six stringed guitar.

Re *may*

For instance, this A7 on guitar 002020 isn't quite the same chord if played on the four strings of a Baritone Uke, although it will often still sound OK, as the A note itself would be missing, i.e. it would be EGC#E.
So, it should be correctly played as EAC#G

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Johnny J
Date: 27 May 13 - 09:09 AM

You still can't replicate the finger picking patterns(plectrum or soft pick is easier, of course) exactly as the ukelele has only four strings. So, it makes sense to try some alternative approaches to make things sound interesting.

Also, when you do move to a six string instrument, you still have to think of what to do with the other two strings although I have seen some people only play very simple chords using the top four strings.... I actually saw this method taught in a very early guitar tutor.

A baritone ukelele isn't much smaller than a small guitar, of course.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: The Sandman
Date: 27 May 13 - 08:30 AM

picking patterns do correspond if you get a baritone uke tuned dgbe, next, most guitar are too big for small children, and not good quality, baritone ukes are good quality and relatively cheap.
the uke is a fretted wooden instrument, that with corect gauge strings can be tuned in any tuning , the same as the guitar. it does not have to be tuned with re entrant tuning.
Tootler, i do not know what kind of thinking you are talking about, but   i disagree with you, i think using the uke like a small guitar is excellent for small children, small children can also learn the uke in its traditional format with re entrant tuning, why on earth cannot not be used in two different ways.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Johnny J
Date: 27 May 13 - 07:48 AM

"A ukulele is an instrument in its own right "

True, while they are both from the same family and familiarity with one of them will help you understand the other both have their own subtleties and different techniques, playing stills will suit each instrument differently. So, it's not necessarily a good thing to transfer everything you've learne don the uke to the guitar or vice versa.

It's the same thing with the fidlle and the mandolin. Of course, the tuning is the same and the fingering is "similar" but you still have to approach each instrument differently.... i.e. picking patterns don't always correspond to bowing(Most of the time, in fact) and ornamentation is different.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Tootler
Date: 26 May 13 - 06:59 PM

No, Dick. Get them a small guitar. A ukulele is an instrument in its own right not a stepping stone to something else. As a recorder player, I've come across too much of that sort of thinking.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: The Sandman
Date: 26 May 13 - 07:01 AM

i can see that the dgbe tuning[baritone uke] would be very useful as a way of teaching small children to lead on to the guitar

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Johnny J
Date: 26 May 13 - 03:10 AM

I've been playing ukelele for a year(Among my other pursuits) and my eyes have been opened as regards the versatility and potential of this instrument.

As as been mentioned, there are several tuning possibilities, choice of high or low "G" string, various instruments in the family and so on.

I used to think that it was mainly used for strumming chords and can be very effectively. However, many of the complex patterns while fine for certain songs don't always suit folk and traditional music. So, I'd personally stick to more simple patterns. It's a matter of taste though.

Also, there are lots of lovely tune and melody arrangements composed for ukelele which take advantage of the high "G" string and the "campanella" style. It's also possible to play these by using notes on the E and A strings and there are many different and, sometimes, opposing views as to which arrangements are best.
However, it does give you an option to include nice "ringing" notes etc and other effects even although it doesn't always feel like the most natural way to play at times.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: GUEST
Date: 25 May 13 - 10:39 PM

Forget Me Not is a sweet song, three quarter, and very singable.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 May 13 - 06:47 PM

ok, so my point about playing house of the rising sun, was to play arpeggios of chordsinvolving picking six quavers.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: PHJim
Date: 25 May 13 - 06:07 PM

Hey Tootler,
I have a book of ukulele arrangements by May Singhi Breen that I bought at a flea market that has the uke tuned in many different ways depending on the key, all relatively the same, but higher or lower like your ukes.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Tootler
Date: 25 May 13 - 06:01 PM

I have a soprano tuned aDF#B, useful instead of a capo as a capo, especially on a soprano uke, gets in the way. I also keep a concert uke tuned fBbDG, a tone down from standard.

aDF#B was once considered the standard for soprano ukes. I have a George Formby songbook and it specifies different tunings for different songs. As well as gCEA and aDF#B, it also specifies BbEbGC, a semitone higher than aDF#B.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: PHJim
Date: 25 May 13 - 04:28 PM

Some folks also tune their soprano ukes to aDF#B, a full tone higher than the popular gCEA tuning. I have some friends who have ukes in GCEA (low G) for melody playing and gCEA (high G) for chording. A lot of wonderful melody playing can be done with the high G tuning.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Tootler
Date: 25 May 13 - 02:15 PM

Standard tuning for most ukes (soprano, concert & tenor) is gCEA reentrant; i.e. the G string is tuned to a higher pitch than the C string. The reentrant tuning is part of what gives the uke its character and it is essentially a strummed instrument. You can pick with a uke and it can work very well but you can't do bass runs as there are no bass strings, so picking basically involves playing arpeggios in the treble register.

The baritone uke is tuned DGBE, commonly with a low D string but even in this case quite a few folk use reentrant tuning with a high D string.

Also quite a few uke players like a low G string in otherwise standard tuning. This is especially true of tenor uke players. Quite a lot of discussion on the ukulele forum I belong to revolves around the high G/low G issue.

You might notice that if you capo a guitar at the fifth fret, the top four strings match standard uke tuning with a low G string.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 May 13 - 09:34 AM

what is the tunings that different people use for uke, because with correct gauge strings they can be tuned like the top 4 strings of a guitar in standard tuning ...dgbe

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: The Sandman
Date: 25 May 13 - 09:31 AM

house of the risng sun works on guitar with finger picking ripple pattern, with a plectrum, if you hit a bass string for the first quaver, and play six quavers or half beats down up down up down up, on treble strings that should work, alternatively replace plectrum with thumb for first beat then fingers up for the next five quavers or half beats

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: PHJim
Date: 25 May 13 - 09:12 AM

Here's another simple finger pickin' waltz pattern for ukulele:

_____________3__________
______0_____________0___
___0____________________
_________0______0_______

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Murray MacLeod
Date: 25 May 13 - 07:25 AM

As Tattie Bogle so astutely observed above, it is a simple matter to turn any 4/4 tune into 3/4.

"Star of the County Down" and "Rose of Allendale" are two which spring to mind as being performed equally frequently in either signature.

IMO I prefer to play "Rose of Allendale" in 3/4 , and "Star of the County Down" in 4/4, but they both work either way.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 24 May 13 - 09:38 AM

Paddy's Green Shamrock Shore
Banks of the Bann
Midnight on the Water
Lullaby of London (Pogues)

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 24 May 13 - 03:26 AM

Johnny J, I found my cookie after a massive attack of head-scratching.

I like both tunes to "Red Red Rose" but neither of them is in 3/4 (normally!)
If Northerner fancies a wee Burns tune in 3/4, try "Ae Fond Kiss" but again wait till you've got the fingerpickin' licked!

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Jack Campin
Date: 23 May 13 - 12:46 PM

Something a bit different - the Russian song "Stenka Razin", which G.S. MacLennan morphed into his pipe march "The Kilworth Hills" after hearing it sung by Russian sailors in Leith.

http://www.kaikracht.de/balalaika/english/songs/izza_bal.htm

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Northerner
Date: 23 May 13 - 12:07 PM

Johhny J, yes, I do intend to work with other time signatures. Tattybogle, I intend to add picking to my ukulele playing before too long.

Thank you all. A generous selection of songs with the 3/4 time signature means I can try things out with them - different strumming patterns, different strumming techniques, and yes, eventually, fingerpicking. You've given me some good songs to have fun with!

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Snuffy
Date: 23 May 13 - 09:14 AM

Wild Rover
Black Velvet Band

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: PHJim
Date: 22 May 13 - 11:46 AM

With the picking pattern above, the chords which have unison notes on the first and fourth strings sound better if they're modified. An F chord, normally 2010, sounds better if you make it 2013.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: PHJim
Date: 22 May 13 - 11:41 AM

I have seen this variation on Peggy Seeger's "Lullaby Lick" done for waltzes at our local uke group, using the thumb on the 3rd and 4th strings, index on the 2nd and bird finger on the 1st:

________3_____3______
_____0_____0_____0___
__0__________________
________0_____0______

It can be simplified by leaving out the last two second string notes.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Johnny J
Date: 22 May 13 - 11:17 AM

I would also add that, for a waltz, I'd generally prefer to use a picking pattern although there are simple strums that would also do or a combination of both especially with The UKE.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Johnny J
Date: 22 May 13 - 11:14 AM

Have you lost your cookies as well, TB?

"My Love is Like a Red Red Rose - yuk!"

A lovely tune if you play Burns' preferred melody.... Major Graham's.

By the way, the OP is talking about the ukelele as opposed to guitar although there also options to finger pick there too although many of them like to strum.

Incidentally, I don't like a lot of the more complex strumming patterns which ukelele players use(I've now been taught many).... at least, not for simple folk songs and tunes and would generally tend to err on the side of more basic accompaniment for our kind of music.

By the way, I missed the ALP over the last few Tuesdays.
Doctor's appointment, Funeral, and a heavy cold all in that order but I'm sure you'd have managed without me! :-))

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: GUEST,Tattie Bogle
Date: 22 May 13 - 10:55 AM

You can turn almost anything into 3/4 if you try hard enough: can't say I always like the results! Various ceilidh band "waltzes" which were originally in 4/4 include Loch Lomond, A Man's a Man for a' That, My Love is Like a Red Red Rose - yuk!

I would think of House of the Rising Sun as being in 6/8, not 3/4. (Based on The Animals' version which most of us in the UK would know). It's more of a picked out arpeggio: 12and3 456, 12and3 456, etc rather than a strum.

And I certainly wouldn't "strum" on some of the others mentioned: a little simple fingerpicking up and down the strings would sound so much nicer on Amazing Grace, for example.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Leadfingers
Date: 22 May 13 - 05:28 AM

I hdnt realised how popular the waltz is until I did a support for Rose Marie at The Swan in Stockwell , and was doing slightly more 'Irish' than normal - Sang 'The Wild Colonial Boy' and had half a dozen couples happily waltzing to it !

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 21 May 13 - 11:34 PM

Brendan B -

"Slip jigs have a very different character- and I love 'em!"

That was really part of the point. Although there are trends and habits that help you make a first guess, you can't really tell what a song should sound like - or how you'll want it to in your own arrangement - just from the key (time) signature.

The fun part is how you make it be your own music.

No disagreement that I see.

John

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 21 May 13 - 08:28 PM

Bonnie Tyneside
Bonnie George Campbell
Down in the Valley
On top of old Smokey

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 21 May 13 - 04:39 PM

After The Ball Is Over?

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: PHJim
Date: 21 May 13 - 04:12 PM

Steve, a great song and they make a good medley.
Is it true that Peewee King and Bill Monroe had a feud over who came up with the idea of a waltz where a guy loses his sweetie when she dances with another man?

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 21 May 13 - 03:48 PM

Jim,
Excellent stuff. And if we're going to Tennessee, why not Kentucky?

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: PHJim
Date: 21 May 13 - 03:36 PM

Ron, I wouldn't have posted it if I wanted to keep it for myself. I think I heard that from a Peterborough, Ontario pal, Catfish Willie.

I heard Michael Cooney say that if it takes more than two trips to get your gear from the car to the stage, it ain't "Folk".

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 May 13 - 03:30 PM

I imagine that "folk" in this context is songs people like to hear, may want to sing with, and which can be played on the uke.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 May 13 - 03:26 PM

Excellent, Jim.   Mind if we Mudcatters use it?

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: PHJim
Date: 21 May 13 - 02:58 PM

Since everyone seems to have a different definition of what "Folk" is*, and let's not get into that again, how about Dennis Brown's lovely song "Cross Ties On A Railroad"? The Hill Brothers, Randall and Rocky, have a nice version on Youtube.
-
-
-
* My favourite definition of "Folk" is: A four letter word that starts with F and ends with K and if you use it, you won't get played on the radio.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: Joe_F
Date: 21 May 13 - 02:42 PM

Since this thread seems to have taken a broad view of "folk" (without protest! amazing!), I might mention an oddity: "Love's Old Sweet Song", in which the stanzas are in 4/4 but the refrain is in 3/4. Gets away with it, too, IMO. I cannot think of any other song that makes such a switch.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: PHJim
Date: 21 May 13 - 02:39 PM

Peewee King's beautiful song The Tennessee Waltz, although perhaps not strictly a folk song, works well on the uke. It can be done with very simple chords, but sounds nice with these ones:

|G |   |   |C |G |E |A |D |
|G |   |   |C |G |D |G |   ||
|G |B7 |C |G |G |E |A |D |
|G |   |   |C |G |D |G |   ||

E or A could be played as sevenths, as could the D.

Subject: RE: Folk songs with 3/4 time signature
From: GUEST,BrendanB
Date: 21 May 13 - 02:35 PM

Sorry, that last was from me. That slippery little cookie slithered off again.
BrendanB