Aye, It's a True Song

Subject: Aye, It's a True Song
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 26 May 13 - 11:16 PM

GUEST 

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 27 May 13 - 12:30 AM

Gee, I hate threads that begin with just a link. Threads are supposed to discuss something. What is this supposed to discuss?

It's a link to the song "Easy To Be Hard" from the musical "Hair." It's a nice song, but so what? SJ Lepak, what was your purpose in starting this thread?

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 27 May 13 - 09:51 AM

To share something beautiful and profound. You're right, it doesn't belong here. Kill it. Here's a gun :-) Btw, gun control has nothing to do with folk music. Why the hell do you bring it here?

You know, not every communication in the world needs to become a major discussion where people either bore you to death or spout off arrogantly and tear away at one another.

While you're at it, you should kill my threads and my "membership." The "folks" that hang out here have nothing to say to me. I have nothing to say to them apparently. That's been kind of bothering me since I came here but not anymore. Some people don't fit in certain places. Sometimes that's a good thing.

Last night, I texted that link to a few of my friends also. They answered back positively. Good to know who your friends are. People often worry so much about being accepted, saying the right or wrong thing, that they fail to realize that they don't really need critics and judges, and if that's the way it's going to be, they are better off not being accepted.

Nothing friendly or folksy about this place. It's kind of a sham and a bust where that's concerned. But I warn you, if I hear another beautiful song, I'll probably get that mad urge to post it rather than comment on one of the Jews Suck threads :-)))

Especially people who care about strangers
Who care about evil and social injustice...

Hey Joe, where you going with that gun in your hand?

That's a joke btw. That's another thing, not much humor around here. Listen, I'm not the type of person who can be bullied into behaving as expected, according to someone else's standards. So if you think I'm that much of a pain in the ass, better nip the "problem" right now. Perhaps you'd be doing all of us a favor?

I came here originally to discuss a certain ballad which I now believe doesn't really interest anyone but me and that's ok. But now I'm here for no particular reason- except maybe to dog y'all into becoming more human by being very human myself.

Didn't like facebook either. Could be I'm not a "social" media type person. It's not communication as much as hit and miss self-promotion. Pretty sure that's what it is. I like real faces, real people.

OK, let's move on to something much more important than that song I posted. Who can tell me about Israel's latest "war crime"? I know there are at least a dozen professors out there who can shed light :-)

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 27 May 13 - 10:28 AM

One of these days you gonna have to face it SJ. you're a goddam moron.

You are looking for problems and confrontation where none exist.

We could all start threads with a link to a favourite song with no explanation and nothing to discuss [ discussion forum, get it ? ] that's not what the Mudcat is about ffs.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: Jack Campin
Date: 27 May 13 - 10:56 AM

If listening to that music gives you that sort of attitude, count me out.

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 27 May 13 - 12:12 PM

I think you all should post favorite songs and then discuss them. Imagine that. Listening to and discussing songs! I'm sure the world would come to an end if we all did that. You should rather question why something like this is so out of place on a music site. I posted it like that because I didn't think I had anything to add to it. I thought the song could speak for itself. Why not?

I was not looking for confrontation. I was hoping someone might say something like, "That's a beautiful song and a powerful message and that woman sings it from the heart, like she really means it." If one person had said that, it would have put a smile on my face.Instead, Joe made it confrontational by questioning my right to express myself in the way that comes naturally. I'm not about to let somebody just mow over me like that. A lot shows up around here where one could easily question propriety.

GoddamNED moron? (as in Gasworks CROFT). Bet you feel you got it going on when you can correct somebody. Do you really have to use words like moron? Most people who know me think I'm anything but a moron. But what would they know? After all, they actually know me.

Suppose you inform me in eloquent terms what Mudcat is for. I would love that. Here's what this moron believes Mudcat is about:

Picking apart folk music TEXTS and arguing over what sort of scholarly definition should be attached to folk music - on the main floor. Unrelated, and very often unseemly, bullshit down below.

The whole text thing truly mystifies me. You have all sorts of sound media at your disposal but it's always, "listen to me talk about this," it's never "listen to this, and then talk about it if you feel like it." Ooooh, revolutionary.

Not a problem Jack. Snappy comeback. I think the crickets are calling you.

That's three of you now and you haven't said a GoddamNED word about the song ffs. Aren't you even going to say, "OMG! It isn't even folk music!" It is, depending on your definition. But prolly not in Ireland ;-)

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: wordfella
Date: 27 May 13 - 02:24 PM

Well, hey. There's some over-reacting going on here.

An unexplained link (one could even call it disguised) is not a great way to start a discussion. It could even be a trap.

Discussing a song is a fine idea, and I might have joined in. The one-word link, though, is like being summoned to someone's office without knowing what it's about. It's hardly ever good.

Maybe a "Remember this one from Hair?" would have been better...

My 2 cents.

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: Amos
Date: 27 May 13 - 02:30 PM

The title of the thread was the discussion--an offered opinion. Where's the problem? Storms in teacups, anyone?

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: GUEST,Susan
Date: 27 May 13 - 04:05 PM

A trap? Holy Mother of God! I'm busted! I'm gonna have to tell the CIA that I won't be available for anymore assignments! Or is it the KGB? I'll check and get back to you.

Amos, did you ever come across a song so beautiful that you just felt like sharing it with, well, everybody? If so then you might be a singer :-)

A little while ago they were playin' bagpipes. Now it's "Hang Down Your Head Tom Dooley." Got an interesting family :-)

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: GUEST,Susan
Date: 27 May 13 - 05:42 PM

Now it's Yodeling Slim Clark. Aunt Shirley has one hell of a collection. She's putting this thing on.

But there's this one burning question that's vexing the shit out of me. Is clapping at "trad sessions" allowed or not? Cuz over here we call it the "clap track."

Hmmm. Better ask Jim. Btw, Jim, if you want to spout off on the "Israel is too aggressive" thread, you go right the fuck ahead. I'm with ya darlin'. One thing I picked up about you from the get go is, you never do anything you do for the wrong reasons. Let's remove the elephant from the room.

Greg F, I know you got a swastika tatooed somewhere. I'd put money on it. You people love that word folk. Bugger off!

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: GUEST
Date: 27 May 13 - 07:44 PM

Two posts to the wrong thread. That's a record I think.

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: GUEST,Susan
Date: 28 May 13 - 04:32 AM

No, that's not a record. THIS is a record:

The Night Chicago Died 

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 May 13 - 05:03 AM

So, SJLepak, start us off. What do you think of the song "Easy To Be Hard" from the musical "Hair"?

Thanks.

That's what I wanted to know.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 28 May 13 - 06:02 AM

Well, I'm happy to offer an opinion Joe. For me I find the song too self-consciously sententious. Of all the songs in the show I think this the most tedious.

I saw Hair on stage in London in late 1979 or maybe early 1970 and listened to the soundtrack album a lot. All these years later apart from the big anthemic songs (Aquarius, Let the Sun Shine In, I Got Life) which have an infectious beat to carry them along, the song I like best is Frank Mills. It has a gentle, quirky humour that always makes me smile.

Mick

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: GUEST,JHW
Date: 28 May 13 - 06:50 AM

You can place anything for discussion but I'd agree with Joe and say that a thread best not start with an enigma.
Explain how this song is 'a true song' in reality or in how it comes over to you. Give us somewhere to start!

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: GUEST,Susan
Date: 28 May 13 - 10:05 AM

My mom had that album when I was very young. I played it over and over until I pretty much knew it by heart. Yeah, Frank Mills is cute :-)

So the other night I'm driving with my friend Leanna in the car and Three Dog Night came on the radio. I told her I knew a better version. Later on I tracked it down on youtube and played it and we both got teary-eyed. I think it was the sad little boy in the white hat. Didn't strike us as sententious at all (wow, had to look that one up!). Maybe it's because we're women and Lee is black. We love sisters who can sing like that! You'll find very few songs that address that plague we have in our society of people caring more about the plight of strangers than they do their own neighbors.

On impulse, I posted it like that. I told Lee, "These people are folk this and folk that but they are not warm people. Somebody needs to play them this song." Lee says, "Ok, go ahead but I don't got a whole lot of faith in people that actually sit there and discuss whether it's ok to clap at their gigs." I had shown Lee that thread and we howled! Lee said, " Now you KNOW those people can't come in my church!" We like our jazz and other forms but we don't for care much for the modern singing style. Overdone. Too melismatic actually. If they really want to yodel, they should do it like Slim :-)

What do you think of the other one? Now that's a true song. It really happened. It's a great song. I love that song. Aunt Shirley dug that one out.

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 28 May 13 - 12:35 PM

Susan - That's the post you should have started with; then people would have known where you were coming from.

Nonetheless, all you'll get are people's opinions of the song (or the performance). Some will like it, some won't. Not liking it doesn't make someone heartless or against you, it just means that the song is not to their taste. For me the song's point is just made too crudely. I find the song to be perhaps much of its time and not (time) travelling well. You, and probably others, will disagree. It doesn't make either of us better or worse. (And though I find Cheryl Barnes' version better than Three Dog Night's - which really does sound of its time - it's still not enough to make the song palatable to me. Sadly, I can't remember what I though about the song in the halcyon days of my late adolescence! (to quote another song from those days))

If I want to listen to sisters who can sing like that, I'd prefer to listen to pretty much anything by Billy Holliday or Ella Fitzgerald or Sarah Vaughan. And amazingly I was recently listening to Donna Summer - disco queen! - sing Lush Life, and quite liked it; unlike Nat King Cole's version - a man whose singing and piano playing in general I find wonderful - which I did find too soulless. All a question of personal taste: an unexpectedly good performance from someone I'd never have imagined doing it, a poor performance from someone I would.

We're not all going to like the same things. The song means something to you, which is good for you, but it leaves me cold. There are doubtless performances of other songs which will have exactly the opposite effect.

Heartless though we be, we're not out to oppose you at every step. Just give us a reference point to start from!

Mick

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 28 May 13 - 07:02 PM

I wouldn't have minded an honest reaction as in "No offense, but I never liked that song."
I didn't like that I tried what I thought was a more direct approach. My approach was not well received. I am an emotional person in a very cerebral zone. It's like being the only dog in a room full of cats. I am Muddog. Funny thing is, most people I ever knew who liked folk music were more like me than you. You guys are a different breed. I actually do have a keen intellect but if discussion isn't infused with warmth and humor then I begin to feel misunderstood and out of place very quickly.

Mick, you're not going to charge me for this therapy or anything are you? You're very good at it:-)

Have you ever heard Nat King Cole's original recording of the Christmas Song? Jazz piano. It's my favorite of his four recording of this song. It was actually Nat who insisted on recording it again with strings. I tend to agree with him that the original was a bit dark for general audiences back then. It was the addition of the strings that made it the classic that it is. But I like this one:

The Christmas Song 

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 28 May 13 - 07:31 PM

Susan - I hadn't heard that version, but I do like that.

The early King Cole Trio recordings, especially with Oscar Moore on guitar are some of my favourite small group recordings. I always thought it a pity that in later years his fame as a vocalist replaced that early style and we lost his jazz piano playing.

(In much the same way Sacha Distel became more famous as a crooner than as the bebop guitarist he started out as. And to some extent in later years Louis Armstrong was better known as a popular singer than the brilliant jazz pioneer he was. And if you want to know what knocks me out when I hear it - Armstrong's amazing bravura into to the 1928 West End Blues recording. I can't remember the first time I heard it, but I could tell then why Armstrong changed music as we know it!)

No charge for therapy yet - you'll qualify for family and friends' rate soon!


Mick

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: GUEST
Date: 28 May 13 - 07:35 PM

have you heard MCP ?

thanks Mick for coming to the song sessions inRedbourn some 14 years ago.

You introduced me to some lovely songs

I wish to thank you

It appears I have become a resident at Herga Folk Club ,every Monday evening at 8.00 p.m. at Pinner Green Social club , Northwood Hills Harrow/Hillingdon,   London Uk      
in the intervening years.

the club still soldiers on

Bob Fox appears on monday 17th June.

Thanks Mick

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 28 May 13 - 07:50 PM

Btw, the other night I also texted that Easy To Be Hard video to my boyfriend John, along with a message saying that maybe he should reconsider loaning the money to that kid at work. He texted back, "No, I helped him out before because he had an emergency but this is pure mismanagement." Now, I don't know whether he thought the song was sententious or not, but I do know he didn't let it get to him :-)

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: Mick Pearce (MCP)
Date: 28 May 13 - 07:53 PM

Breezy - hope to get there the week after for the 50th, so I should see you then.

Mick

Subject: RE: Aye, It's a True Song
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 28 May 13 - 09:59 PM

Very nice Mick.

I have all of Billie Holiday. For "God Bless the Child" there are, as with the Nat King Cole song, a recording with heavy orchestration and a low key jazzy version. I prefer the latter.