BS: The NSA Scandal/Snowden

Subject: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Songwronger
Date: 07 Jun 13 - 11:17 PM

"That means no more illegal wiretapping of American citizens. No more national security letters to spy on citizens who are not suspected of a crime. No more tracking citizens who do nothing but protest a misguided war. No more ignoring the law when it is inconvenient." -- Obama, running for president in 2007

And now, a new scandal, the NSA scandal:

...At issue is the disclosure of a highly classified court order—issued by a judge on the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court—that forced a Verizon subsidiary to hand over on a daily basis to the NSA call logs for all of its customers....

This is a sweeping surveillance program—the sort of activity that two Democrats on the Senate intelligence committee, Mark Udall of Colorado and Ron Wyden of Oregon, have been complaining about for years. The pair have warned that the government was engaged in a surveillance program under the Patriot Act that went beyond what most people would assume permissible given a reasonable interpretation of that law. They have not been able to reveal details of the classified activity in public, but the two senators have noted that Americans would be alarmed if they knew what was going on....

Another administration official was explicit on this point, noting that Congress was regularly briefed on this and that if this is a scandal, the Hill is complicit. The White House's pushback goal is obvious: get reporters to ask Congress, what did you know and when did you know it?

Perhaps the White House can spread the responsibility. But the program was initiated and run by the executive branch. It will justifiably draw much criticism, which may resonate more widely than the in-the-media outrage over the Justice Department snooping on the Associated Press and a Fox News reporter. "This is a truly stunning revelation," Elizabeth Goitein, codirector of the Liberty and National Security Program at the Brennan Center for Justice, told the Washington Post. "This suggests that the government has been compiling a comprehensive record of Americans' associations and possibly even their whereabouts." After Benghazi and the IRS, the White House may finally have to confront a real controversy over a program it truly owns.

http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/06/nsa-spying-obama-scandal


"NOBODY IS LISTENING TO YOUR TELEPHONE CALLS"

Barack Obama promised the American people "nobody is listening to your telephone calls" as he faced deepening questions over whether he had allowed the US surveillance state to run out of control.

Speaking on the eve of a major US-China summit in California, Mr Obama was forced to push back against accusations that his administration had expanded on Bush-era surveillance systems that he had once campaigned against.

Under intense fire from both the liberal Left and libertarian Right for trampling on Constitutional freedoms, the president defended secret programmes which collect data on hundreds of millions of US phone calls and harvest huge amounts of online information about foreigners.

Mr Obama, who as a candidate accused George W Bush of making a "false choice" between liberty and security, found himself accused of carrying on a "fourth Bush term" after embracing the same surveillance apparatus designed by his predecessor.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/barackobama/10106919/Obama-on-NSA-surveillance-scandal-nobody-is-listening-to-your-pho

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 12:06 AM

No more illegal wiretapping. Songwronger, once again I knew you would be trying to sling Bush-era shit and hope it stuck exclusively on Obama.

From Wikipedia

In mid-August 2007, a three-judge panel of the United States Court of Appeals for the Ninth Circuit heard arguments in two lawsuits challenging the surveillance program. The appeals were the first to reach the court after dozens of civil suits against the government and telecommunications companies over NSA surveillance were consolidated last year before the chief judge of the United States District Court for the Northern District of California, Vaughn R. Walker. One of the cases is a class-action lawsuit against AT&T, focusing on allegations that the company provided the NSA with its customers' phone and Internet communications for a vast data-mining operation. Plaintiffs in the second case are the al-Haramain Foundation Islamic charity and two of its lawyers.

The news this week is old stuff. Americans have such short memories. The metadata mining has been legal in several administrations, it continues to be legal, yet if someone doing all they can to help the GOP stall legislation thinks they can generate a scandal to slow down Obama's progress in his second term, they'll try it with any old thing anti-Obama Americans can become indignant about. Bengazi, Susan Rice, IRS. . .

The subhead of your Mother Jones link says explicitly If this disclosure of an extensive domestic surveillance program leads to a real controversy, the White House says Congress should share the blame.

SRS

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 12:24 AM

Metadata (metacontent) are defined as the data providing information about one or more aspects of the data, such as:

Means of creation of the data

Purpose of the data

Time and date of creation

Creator or author of the data

Location on a computer network where the data were created

Standards used

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Deckman
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 12:29 AM

This is just another republican attempt to strike back at the core issue: Obama won and Romney lost! bob(deckman)nelson

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 12:38 AM

I hereby give the NSA permission to use my phone records. Why should I care?

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Songwronger
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 12:56 AM

1994, CALEA.

Since '94, all digital communication has been mined. Next year, the new NSA facility in Utah will become the home of all that mined data. The federal government will have all financial, internet, cable TV, telephone, texts, emails and so on connected to each of us in one place. Any cop on the side of the road will be able to access that data.

SRS accused me of "stalking" her once, the hysterical biddy, and now she's defending the system described above? I believe she is not just an apologist for Obama, but she is insane. She makes me reconsider my anti-pharma position.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 12:58 AM

For God's sake, Joe, don't do that! They'll figure out where the guns are hidden if it takes the rest of the century.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Songwronger
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 01:04 AM

Medical records, school records, ALL PHONE CALLS, eavesdropping conducted through iPads, cell phones and the like, intersection scans of your car's license plates, face scans of you as you walked the streets, GPS information.

The Utah facility will have yottabytes of storage space. It will be able to store a nearly infinite amount of information. It will have a spotty record of what you did in the paper age and a TOTAL record of what you've done in the digital age.

And Obama reassures us by saying no one is listening to our telephone calls.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Don Firth
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 01:06 AM

Songwronger, I know Stilly River Sage personally and have known her for many, many years. A VERY aware, sane, and level-headed person.

You're the one here who's 'round the bend. Obviously, from the number of threads you've started and the amount of time you spend on it, it's abundantly clear to everyone here (with the possible exception of GoofuS, who's just as batty as you are) that you have a downright pathological hatred for Barack Obama.

The people ELECTED him!

SUCK IT UP!!

Don Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 01:27 AM

Songwronger forgets so much, when it's convenient.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 01:28 AM

What a DUMB post!
They also elected Bush...TWICE...Nixon...Carter...Clinton...and they ALL sucked...(speaking of sucking it up...)

Now, that being said, our phones and computers have been monitored for a LONG time....and so what?...Yeah, it would be cool to have privacy, but then, who needs to doing doing 'mischief'?
If they monitor Mudcat, well, then they must be laughing up a storm, when they read how naive some of the partisan politicking going on in here.....AND....they'd also know, that I've been correct on a whole lot of shit that has, and is going down....but like a war/correspondent/photographer, this composer tries to catch the angst, and put it into music...which I've done pretty good(if i do say).
Other than that, they must be laughing again, when they see some of the old farts taking themselves so fucking seriously!...and then, this is even funnier....they think others should do the same....Right Don???

Oh,....suck it up!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Joe Offer
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 01:38 AM

I used to do intelligence work, and I did investigative work for a career. To get the job done, you have to go through a thousand pieces of useless information to find one tidbit that has any value. Professional analysts have a very disinterested attitude toward those thousands of useless pieces of information, so the people tied to the useless information, are protected by the tedium and disinterest of the analysts.

Intelligence offers protection in a way that is far less damaging and less violent than just about any other kind of defense. But to conduct intelligence work, the intelligence workers have to be trusted.

And, for the most part, they are trustworthy - and there are pretty good controls to keep them that way.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 01:54 AM

Oh No!!..Joe is an intelligence guy!..He's 'monitoring' us....and look at how many ridiculous posts he has to read....even just to find one that makes sense!!
jow, explain to them 'Echelon'...and how it works....they'd only argue with me!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 01:57 AM

ooops..(typo)..JOE, explain to them 'Echelon'...and how it works....they'd only argue with me!...and then tell them how long it's been around!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 05:19 AM

So tempted to pepper all texts, calls, emails and posts with mine field of questionable words and phrases, just to make life interesting for the poor people who have to trawl through it all.

Hot words and terms squeezed into completely innocent contexts.

I plan to DISCHARGE a confetti BOMB at a big EVENT in LONDON next week.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 07:44 AM

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/06/07/prism-u-s-surveillance-programs-reveal-barack-obamas-broken-promise/

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 09:37 AM

http://news.nationalpost.com/2013/06/07/prism-u-s-surveillance-programs-reveal-barack-obamas-broken-promise/

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Rapparee
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 11:13 AM

Ya know that you folks are taking this way too seriously.

Joe's right -- I did "looking up" work for years and you can sort through a lot of manure before you find a diamond.

If you knew the first thing about it you'd realize that...never mind. Your minds are made up, the doors closed, and welded shut.

Just remember, when you blame Obama, that this was authorized by CONGRESS under the BUSH administration along with such other violations of civil liberties as the Patriot Act, TSA, and DHS.

Fer gawd's sakes, people, this has been going on since the 1960s!!!

If you don't want "them" listening in, do what Bin Laden did -- use a courier.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,larehip
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 11:28 AM

This angers me because people should have known 7 years ago that this was going on after Bush bypassed the FISA court (which IS illegal) and had ALL the telecommunications giants turn over their data (without a court order) and people sat there on their stupid asses and said nothing.

NOW all the sudden, it's a big deal!! Well, guess what--it's legal what Obama did and Verizon was under a court order to turn over their data and the FISA court is not being bypassed. So why get upset over this now but it was ok when Bush was breaking the law??

Where the fuck have people been for 7 fucking years?!?!?

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 11:31 AM

They've been sucking on the TeaPublican teat- and are now trying to shift the blame for pure political advantage.

And the boobocracy are lapping it up.

God help America- oh, ye nation of morons.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 11:51 AM

I agree with Joe Offer, Rapparee, and Niggardly Bastard.....even though Rapparee did leave out NDAA!!

GfS

P.S. ..and as usual, Greg just had to bitch, without saying anything. I gues he is so 'ticked off' that he threw his Martini across the jacuzzi!

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,larehip
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 12:12 PM

I think it's the way the repubs use the media. When bush was breaking the law, his opponents were asking, "How can this be legal? This is clearly unconstitutional," and the public barely took any notice. When Obama is doing the same thing only legally, the repubs are going to the media and shrieking, "HE'S INVADING YOUR PRIVACY AND DESTROYING YOUR FREEDOMS!!!! STOP HIM!!! STOP HIM!!! BEFORE IT'S TOO LATE!!!!!!!! OH GOD SOMEBODY PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE PLLLLLLLLEEEEEEAAAAASSSSEEEE STOP HIM (sob sob sob sob sob)!!!!!!!" And this gets the public's attention and holds it. The repubs are good at getting hysterical in front of the cameras to get attention. Calm, rational discourse doesn't work on the public--it's boring and they don't understand it anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 12:22 PM

It really does seem a bit much for the US government to be in effect saying "of course we will not interfer with the freedoms and rights of US citizens. We will just do that to bloody foreigners."   And the same mindset applies when it comes to oher stuff, like locking people up without trial for decades on end, or torturing them.

Human rights are human rights, and they apply to everyone, regadless of citizenship.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 12:24 PM

I guess I've been 'sane' for a LONG time...here's a post from Obama's first campaign, which says (and I have more, specific ones from that time):

Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 29 Aug 08 - 01:18 AM

"Just been reading the posts....some really shallow stuff there! No mention of his accomplishments or his policies that most people think about..or that effect all of us....Any word on dissolving our borders, without even getting the public's feedback..??Same with our currency, and form of money..not a word...immigration....shhhh....getting our rights back, from all that was done in the Bush years(make that Bush, Clinton, Bush,jr,...not to mention the president Bush heaped upon himself the most sweeping, additions of power to the presidency, in our history...is Obama going to get rid of them...or ..(?). Waffling on the middle east??....and just HOW, or what's his plan, specifically to turn the economy around, more than just saying, 'We'll do it'?? And by the way, 'Change'...?..what to?..another form of government, without the will of the people???..the government enacting more 'safeguards' (read: intrusion), into our lives?..Why not?...they tell us we need them to do everything else for us?
And Amos, my dear pal Amos, you should re-read your posts! You sound like a gullible naive, starry eyed adolescent with a jar of Vaseline, as big as a basketball!
Maybe the reason for the stage, being just like the Greek Gods, and just like Bush's...ever stop to think, its run by the same outfit, with a great big propaganda media, to keep us blind, and/or distracted from the real throne of power??? ..of which is not elected??
Anyway..its obvious....all hype, no substance!"

And NOW, (finally), the disillusioned Democrats are saying that Bush and Obama are just doing the same thing, started by Bush!

Should have been listening(reading) instead of inundating us with stupid 'talking points'!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 12:40 PM

The good news is that judging from the indecipherable rant above, Goofus, you're not any crazier than you were 4 1/2 years ago.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,larehip
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 01:04 PM

Actually, I said back when Bush was still in office that because the people have allowed him to set up all this totalitarian political machinery in the White House, it will still be there when he leaves and every president after him is going to use it. So it does not surprise me a bit that Obama is using it. If I were him, I would too. That's exactly the problem: once it's there, it's there to stay. The time to get mad about it was when it was in process. It does no good to get mad about it now. Way way way too late.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Saniity
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 01:31 PM

Well said, larehip. It is a subject I covered numerous times, as far back as the first convention, where Barrack Hussein was nominated. What happens is we are 'issued' 'talking points' to steer the national dialogue, AWAY from the real issues!!..It's done by both the 'right' and left'..and probably with the co-operation of each other, who, of course, have been bought and paid for, by the people, behind the scenes. The real shame is, a lot of folks on here, came out of the 60's peace movement, got co-opted by the Democratic Party, and because of it, have lost their 'Mojo' for thinking creatively for themselves!!! The Democratic Party was fucked up BEFORE the peace movement, co-opted the movement, then proceeded back to their original fucked up state, and took all those who were stupid enough, to fall in line with them!..Think of them as the illegal aliens, who the Democratic Party is trying to 'incorporate' now. Same deal. That beiaid, the Republican party is just as fucked up...the only people who DON'T think ity's fucked up, are those who are still fucking stupid enough to be in them, spouting their stupid, fucking 'talking points' and NOT reaching out, to talk about the REAL issues, as they did before they got burnt out in the 60's! Lazy!!
Anyway, nice to know someone else sees it, and isn't falling into their psy-ops program!
BTW, Gillymor and Greg are still in pre-school..Don Firth wants to be their teacher's assistant, and Bobert is still trying to get a note from home, to see if it's OK, not to subscribe to his Mom's political party!
Few of them have anything of substance to say, in which somebody actually learns something....they are still at the name calling stage!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 01:36 PM

Had to fix some typos...(for those who don't read typonese)
Moderators can get rid of the other one...

Well said, larehip. It is a subject I covered numerous times, as far back as the first convention, where Barrack Hussein was nominated. What happens is we are 'issued' 'talking points' to steer the national dialogue, AWAY from the real issues!!..It's done by both the 'right' and left'..and probably with the co-operation of each other, who, of course, have been bought and paid for, by the people, behind the scenes. The real shame is, a lot of folks on here, came out of the 60's peace movement, got co-opted by the Democratic Party, and because of it, have lost their 'Mojo' for thinking creatively for themselves!!! The Democratic Party was fucked up BEFORE the peace movement, co-opted the movement, then proceeded back to their original fucked up state, and took all those who were stupid enough, to fall in line with them!..Think of them as the illegal aliens, who the Democratic Party is trying to 'incorporate' now. Same deal. That being said, the Republican party is just as fucked up...the only people who DON'T think it's fucked up, are those who are still fucking stupid enough to be in them, spouting their stupid, fucking 'talking points' and NOT reaching out, to talk about the REAL issues, as they did before they got burnt out in the 60's! Lazy!!
Anyway, nice to know someone else sees it, and isn't falling into their psy-ops program!
BTW, Gillymor and Greg are still in pre-school..Don Firth wants to be their teacher's assistant, and Bobert is still trying to get a note from home, to see if it's OK, not to subscribe to his Mom's political party!
Few of them have anything of substance to say, in which somebody actually learns something....they are still at the name calling stage!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,larehip
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 02:00 PM

I don't care about the political parties. It's the people who are fucked up. They need to quit letting politicians jerk them around with hotbutton topics and jingoism. They're are like sheep. Stop with the herd mentality and start thinking. Otherwise, they deserve to be deceived and victimized by those they elect.

And just to be clear: I support Obama more than I support the repubs who don't appear to me to care about ANYTHING but their own political fortunes. I've had it up to here with them.

There is NO NSA scandal! Everything Obama is doing is by the book, he is within the law--like it or not. The scandal occurred 7 years ago and the biggest mouths flapping about Obama now were totally silent then. They need to be silent now because I don't want to hear their shit. They have forfeited their right to speak.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Lavengro
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 02:04 PM

It seems to me that the US and UK governments are constantly seeking ways to circumvent their own laws with third party help. I would list some examples but I don't want anyone frothing at the mouth. And larehip is right, when it's done it's done. Trouble is that a lot of times we don't know what is being done/has been done in our name until the press breaks the story. Is that how it should work? Why is there such a powerful lobby protecting some freedoms and apparent lack of interest in others?

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 02:17 PM

From another thread:


Subject: RE: BS: U.S. Senator - Abolish the IRS
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 09:48 AM

It seems the IRS was induced/told/instructed to check out tea party people. Overkill I say. I'm sure the government's PRISM project and phone surveillance operations would have found what it wanted.

Hell, they were such good ideas that the UK government got involved and neglected to tell its citizens. It wouldn't surprise me to find that Canada has gleaned its share of info. Secret laws? What the hell kind of government passes secret laws, passes laws in secrecy?

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 02:18 PM

Well, larehip, I Almost agree with your post, except I don't support Obama anymore than his Republican counterparts. Lavengro, seems to have his/her finger on the pulse....even though, if you have noticed, during the 'debates', nobody who isn't part of the 'bought off crowd' don't seem to get much hot air time! On the 'so-called left' Dennis Kucinich, was not called on much...or the 'so-called right', RON Paul seemed to be minimized as well..most of the others are just lackey fill ins..

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 03:16 PM

The thing is, there's some courageous person out there who leaked this information, and when their identity is revealed, they are going to be crucified.

I only hope they make it in time to some country with the guts to defend them.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 03:38 PM

McGrath of Harlow: "I only hope they make it in time to some country with the guts to defend them."

Or maybe to a multinational corporation or bank, who can blackmail any who try to come after him.....jeez, maybe they'd even cut them off from the payroll of bribes...or expose their OTHER corrupt sources!...or even threaten them with taking them off the insider trading program!!!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 06:48 PM

Wonderful reading.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Bobert
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 07:37 PM

Yup[, SRS...

The Mudburg Klan can't help themselves... They are addicted and out of control...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 08:05 PM

I found it disturbing and entertaining...those two sides bickering, though their 'stupid talking points' (as mentioned earlier). What they should be discovering together, is that, who is funding both sides, writing the script, and to what end???.....I bet ya' neither side is going to like it, and kick themselves in the ass for focusing on the bullshit dialogue, that's been fed to them, as a part of psychological warfare distraction!
Far more informative, and dialed in!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 08:09 PM

Nice to see people supporting the government in its fight to keep America safe--started by Bush and continued by Obama.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 09:06 PM

I hereby give the NSA permission to use my phone records. Why should I care?

Way back in the dark ages (early 80s to be precise), when I was an active member of CND in Essex, my phone was tapped. It was highly amusing to hear the sudden hanging-up "click" whenever I shouted down the phone "I know you stupid bastards are listening!" As we sold our CND paraphernalia on our Saturday morning stall in Loughton High Road, we could clearly see several blokes on a rooftop on the opposite side of the road filming us and taking photos. We made sure they went home with some quite entertaining footage. The sad fact is that this represented public money being wasted watching a bunch of people who couldn't, and wouldn't, harm a bloody flea.

Do I care? I wouldn't care if some secret service lunatic filmed me wiping my bum, to be honest. What I do care about is that we're paying these eejits to waste our money.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Mrr at home so where's my cookie?
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 09:24 PM

Hey, I saw one of those magic coffee cups the other day, this one had the Bill of Rights on it and if you put a hot drink in it you could watch them (your rights) disappear... I thought it was pretty funny.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 08 Jun 13 - 09:57 PM

It is a good job - designed for people who are never bored (Assburger syndrom helps)

It does not pay well....1,200 USD monthly base (unemployment pays twice that) .... and 31.23 USD for every positive.

I purchased a home on the income from the "LafKats" postings.
Max has shielded himself well...bankruptcy and moving, multiple times, can do that.
Joe - gives a peculiar ... but steady stream ... under ten buck a month.
Felt so sorry for Kendal/Kan .....returned every cent via pay-pal.

Read the Bloomberg "The Porn Copyright Trolls" article by Claire Suddath current edition.

Sincerely,
Gargoyle

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 08:31 AM

Government has 'secretly interpreted the Patriot Act'

It was not until May 2011, as the Patriot Act again faced another reauthorization, that the NSA's secret programs began to receive cryptic attention from two Democratic senators, Ron Wyden of Oregon and Mark Udall of Colorado. Hobbled by the classified nature of the secret programs, the two senators offered up only guarded warnings.

"When the American people find out how their government has secretly interpreted the Patriot Act, they will be stunned and they will be angry," Wyden said during a floor speech in May 2011. He added: "Many members of Congress have no idea how the law is being secretly interpreted by the executive branch, because that interpretation is classified."

The above is from a news article. Read the snippet and weep.

So, the fundamental difference between Bush and Obama is . . . what?

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Bobert
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 08:55 AM

Terrorists plot get's found out and stopped: Tea Party quiet...

Terrorist plot doesn't get found out and goes forward: Tea Party goes berserk accusing Obama of everything shy of kidnapping the Lindbergh baby...

Normal...

B~

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Don Firth
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 04:17 PM

This morning I heard a fairly extensive interview on the radio with someone from the NSA.

He made it clear to the interviewer and to the listeners that the idea was NOT to monitor who calls whom all the time and to eavesdrop on their conversations, but to build up a data base of who is calling whom, that can be searched when a suspicious situation arises having to do with national security, such as the likelihood of an impending terrorist attack. And that when they do so, they will be looking for specific information

If a person frequently calls a known or suspected terrorist, THEN, with the proper court orders, those phone calls, e-mails or other means of communication will be closely monitored.

Songwronger need not worry that President Obama will be tapping his telephone when he makes obscene phone calls to the young woman living across the street who sometimes forgets to draw her blinds. Nor does Guest Many Miles From Sanity have to worry that Obama will be listening in when he telephones his male lover (while trying to maintain the fiction for the rest of us that he's not actually gay).

Don (Billy Goat Gruff) Firth

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST,Mr. Peepers
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 06:35 PM

"I purchased a home on the income from ----"

The one with the pool at LosCoyetes & Wardlow, Greg?

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: number 6
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 06:44 PM

Whew .... I'm terrified of terrorists. I'm glad there is now a president that is taking proactive action to keep everyone safe.

biLL

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: Songwronger
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 07:20 PM

I was as hard on Bush as I am on Obama. Harder. I voted for Obama and gave him a grace period, but I knew Bush was a psychopath from the start.

But back to the NSA. If this isn't some kind of double-agent PR stunt, then this man is a hero:

Edward Snowden: the whistleblower behind the NSA surveillance revelations

Snowden will go down in history as one of America's most consequential whistleblowers, alongside Daniel Ellsberg and Bradley Manning. He is responsible for handing over material from one of the world's most secretive organisations – the NSA.

In a note accompanying the first set of documents he provided, he wrote: "I understand that I will be made to suffer for my actions," but "I will be satisfied if the federation of secret law, unequal pardon and irresistible executive powers that rule the world that I love are revealed even for an instant."...

He said it was during his CIA stint in Geneva that he thought for the first time about exposing government secrets. But, at the time, he chose not to for two reasons.

First, he said: "Most of the secrets the CIA has are about people, not machines and systems, so I didn't feel comfortable with disclosures that I thought could endanger anyone". Secondly, the election of Barack Obama in 2008 gave him hope that there would be real reforms, rendering disclosures unnecessary.

He left the CIA in 2009 in order to take his first job working for a private contractor that assigned him to a functioning NSA facility, stationed on a military base in Japan. It was then, he said, that he "watched as Obama advanced the very policies that I thought would be reined in", and as a result, "I got hardened."

The primary lesson from this experience was that "you can't wait around for someone else to act. I had been looking for leaders, but I realised that leadership is about being the first to act."

Over the next three years, he learned just how all-consuming the NSA's surveillance activities were, claiming "they are intent on making every conversation and every form of behaviour in the world known to them".

He described how he once viewed the internet as "the most important invention in all of human history". As an adolescent, he spent days at a time "speaking to people with all sorts of views that I would never have encountered on my own".

But he believed that the value of the internet, along with basic privacy, is being rapidly destroyed by ubiquitous surveillance. "I don't see myself as a hero," he said, "because what I'm doing is self-interested: I don't want to live in a world where there's no privacy and therefore no room for intellectual exploration and creativity."

Once he reached the conclusion that the NSA's surveillance net would soon be irrevocable, he said it was just a matter of time before he chose to act. "What they're doing" poses "an existential threat to democracy", he said.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 07:58 PM

I'm not sure that Hong Kong is the best place for him to be safe from the US rendition heavies. Good luck to him anyway.

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 10:46 PM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KEg5JyAVxpY

Subject: RE: BS: The NSA Scandal
From: number 6
Date: 09 Jun 13 - 11:05 PM

Oh by hook or by crook they'll capture Edward Snowden ... after all he is 'unpatriotic' ... funny isn't it ... doesn't matter who the current president is ... if someone speaks the truth they are public enemy number one.

There certainly would be different attitudes here on the Madcat concerning all of this if it happened under Bush's watch.

biLL