cawsand bay: who was Elinor Ford?

Subject: cawsand bay: who was Elinor Ford?
From: GUEST,Jack Sprocket
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 01:48 PM

On the 'songs that aren't traditional' thread, I commented about Cawsand Bay sounding composed but having no known author. Searching for the song, I see it was mentioned a long time ago in a thread about the dating of songs. It strikes me that, for the knowledgeable, this song should be easy to date:

He said with emotion, "what son of the ocean
Can thus be looked after by Elinor Ford">/i>

Obnviously a famous beauty: but of what period? Google is silent.

Subject: RE: cawsand bay: who was Elinor Ford?
From: GUEST
Date: 22 Jun 13 - 07:03 PM

The song predates 1887.

http://paperspast.natlib.govt.nz/cgi-bin/paperspast?a=d&d=TT18870702.2.25&l=mi&e=-------10--1----2--

Subject: RE: cawsand bay: who was Elinor Ford?
From: The Doctor
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 05:07 AM

This song is in Baring Gould's 'A Garland of Country Song', where it is treated somewhat disparagingly, as 'the melody is without originality and...we do not believe that it is a folk song...it has, however, been accepted by the sailors'. He got the tune from a Royal Marines Bandmaster and the words from an officer. He compares it, unfavourably, with 'The Simple (or Pretty) Ploughboy' from his 'Songs of the West', a version of which, by Whaley & Fletcher, is on Song Links 2. This does not name the girl at all, but the printed words in 'Garland' give her as Helena Ford, but still with no further information. Notwithstanding I like the song, which I heard from Dave Burland, so presumably he does too.

Subject: RE: cawsand bay: who was Elinor Ford?
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 23 Jun 13 - 04:30 PM

I know Causand Bay from the playing of Davy Slater. It "sounded" like a composed song and I thought I had heard talk of it being Danish and later translated into English.

Subject: RE: cawsand bay: who was Elinor Ford?
From: GUEST,Jack Sprocket
Date: 24 Jun 13 - 03:48 AM

Thanks for that link, anonymous Guest, a most useful resource (once I'd found the Maori/ English selector). Bookmarked.

Papers Past- an archive of old New Zealand newspapers

The source (an 1887 nostalgic reminiscence of the old days of sea- shanties) names the lady as Elinor Ford, not any of the possible variants (Eleanor, Helena etc.). Which doesn't make the search any easier as Google insists I really want to search for someone else. Are there any standard reference books about famous actresses, courtesans and the wives of the famous, for those times before the advent of the supermodel and sleb?

Subject: RE: cawsand bay: who was Elinor Ford?
From: GUEST
Date: 05 Jun 17 - 03:40 AM

Eleanor Ford was the wife of Edsel ford and daughter-in-law of Henry Ford. She was said to be a great beauty and obviously very rich. There may be a possibility that a name could be inserted of a current celeb that rhymed or up until that time no name was mentioned. There are no records local to this area of SE Cornwall that mention anybody of this name.

Subject: RE: cawsand bay: who was Elinor Ford?
From: GUEST,Thomas Moon
Date: 22 Sep 18 - 12:01 PM

I know this song from the singing of Strawhead. When I saw in their printed lyrics that the name was 'Elinor Ford', I was surprised as I had always heard 'Helen of Troy' who was, of course, a noted beauty. That's what I sing.