Standards for accepting a gig

Subject: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Marion
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 03:48 PM

Hello. I know a singer-songwriter whose day job is nursing. She told me that she won't perform at any venue that is not wheelchair accessible; partly because of the principle of the thing, and partly because many of her friends use wheelchairs.

I thought this might start an interesting thread:

What are your policies on what gigs you'll play and what gigs you won't?

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: MMario
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 03:58 PM

*grin* I can't be too choosy, but either they have to feed me or pay me. But I do take barter.

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Blackcat2
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 04:00 PM

greetings

I'm curious where you live (or your friend) that this is a problem. Bars, pubs and other venues around here (Orlando FL) are acessable as far as I know. Sure most of the doors are heavy, but patrons always seem happy to hold a door for anyone have a bit of trouble (try 2 guitars, a back-pack and a Irish drum). The U.S. "Americans with Disabilities Act" ahs changed a lot of places. Certainly not perfect (I know most of the ramps at intersections in my city are all cracked up or have large bumps that I wouldn't want to negotiate in a chair. All the places I gig at would be accessable I think, but I'm going to ask a friend in a wheelchair what she thinks.

Thanks for an interesting question.

pax yall

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: MMario
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 04:19 PM

Blackcat - I don't know where Marion is from, but a great many places on Cape Cod, and also here in the Finger Lakes region of NY are NOT readily handicapped accessible. Newer buildings are, but the older ones are not. And there are a LOT of older buildings.

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Marion
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 04:43 PM

Hi Blackcat. I'm from Ottawa, and there is a coffeehouse here (Rasputin's Cafe) that isn't accessible. I don't know how many other venues my friend took issue with; it came up when she was explaining why she doesn't play at Rasputin's, which is probably Ottawa's major folkie-style establishment.

I've heard that there is a prominent concert violinist who also refuses to play where it isn't wheelchair accessible. I can't remember which one though.

Marion

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Roger in Baltimore
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 05:34 PM

Geez, my requirements are not nearly so politically correct. I just want them to turn off the TV behind me during my set.

Roger in Baltimore

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Rick Fielding
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 07:37 PM

Geez Roger you must have clout!

Marion, it would probably be Yitzhak Perlman.

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Liz the Squeak
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 07:45 PM

Roger in Baltimore, you are really picky!! My husband and his band turned up to a pub in Dublin to do a lunchtime gig they had been booked for, only to find the entire clientele glued to a huge 6X8 foot screen that completely obscured the whole of the stage! The attraction was an odd game similar to hockey, called shinty (yes, that is with an 'N'), so no-one even noticed when we left. We went across the road to the Brazen Head and had a good ole shindig, where the pub actually closed and opened three times, and we didn't notice!!

As for the disabled access thing, a local shop spent a fortune having one put in, grand opening came, and they discovered that the door opens outwards only......

And my church spent ages wangling room for a disabled access toilet, only to discover that the door to the hall wasn't going to be wide enough.... Luckily we discovered that before it was built, but we still ended up with a double sink and no drainer.....

LTS

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Brendy
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 09:48 PM

Shinty?. On a big screen?. in Dublin? It's just that I can't imagine it. In Scotland perhaps, but are you sure it wasn't Hurling, the fastest field game in the world and quite possibly the most dangerous? I can imagine that OK, but to insist that a band plays as a sort of a sound-track to such a match is preposterous, and the manager of the place should have been sent off for an unprofessional foul.

Unfortunately, musicians seem to always ocupy the lowest part on the totem pole when it comes to consideration from pub owners etc. I insist on such things not only being turned off, but plugged out from the wall.

It's not that I demand that people listen to me, but there is a certain mutual courtesy involved here.

Remember 'Bob's Country Bunker' in the 'Blues Brothers'? I wouldn't lower my standards in cases like this. I can put up with a lot of shit in pub gigs; folks after all are out there to enjoy themselves, but part of the entertainment is not the humiliation of the musician. As mentioned in other threads it can be a quite nerve-wracking thing to get up in front of an audience in the first place.

Youse were right to get out of the place, and the 'Brazen Head' is a much cooler place to be entirely.

In this country, thank God, it is an accepted norm to have the old contract signed before you even think of going near the place, and the musician's union look very grimly on any kind of untoward behaviour on the part of licencees. But unfortunately it is our lot to not only be a musician, but to be the defenders of our own dignity, which can, at any time be subject to an intense shattering by the people who employ us.

is míse le meas: Breandán

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: _gargoyle
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 10:14 PM

GEEEZZZEEEEE!!!!

If you were REAL friends you would damn the contraints and lower your friend through the ceiling on his "death bed pallet" if any group was THAT miraculus.

Where There is a Will There is Way

You are only as Dis-Abled as you Able yourself to be.

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Paul G.
Date: 09 Nov 99 - 10:24 PM

My standards are really quite simple, but unfaltering...1) I will not perform in any venue where I would not want my children to be (I don't do bar gigs, nor gigs where my standards of moral/political/human decency are not upheld) 2) Unless its a charitable cause to which I am sincerely dedicated, I expect to be paid...

PG

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: alison
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 12:14 AM

It was probably hurling..... (looks like hockey where you can pick the ball up and wallop it....exciting to watch and I'm sure dangerous to play).... I've heard it called shinty at home too....

we had something on the TV here a few weeks back they claimed it was Hurley crossed with Aussie Rules Football.... unfortunately I missed it... so I have no idea what happened except that the Irish team one.

slainte

alison

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: kendall
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 11:38 AM

I wont do bars clubs or birthday parties. What I do requires more than a teaspoon ful of brains to understand, and, I will not do the "Background music" thing.

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: JedMarum
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 12:01 PM

I guess I'm a bit of a whore; I'll play most places (once). I don't even try loud bars, but play pretty regularly in the restaraunt/bar ciruit. I don;t go back to places that are loud (crowd or rooms; that is some rooms ring like a bell. I rely on a quality sound to make my performances work, so bad rooms aren't worth it). I play some of the local 'showplaces' as well, but they pay locals poorly, so I do them rarely. And speaking of pay, I told my wife recently, I only have to work 1500 nights a year to make a decent wage, and give up my day job!

Basically my selection criteria is; if it's fun to play there; it's a good gig!

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: AllisonA(Animaterra)
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 01:32 PM

Since a member of my chorus uses a wheelchair we only perform in accessible places- and I mean truly accessible; once we sang in a church with a "stair lift" which was humiliating enough for our member; in addition to that our whole concert was held up because the stairs were our and the public's only access to the hall and we had to wait for an older gent to painfully make his way up the stairs before we could get up them ourselves!

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Blackcat2
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 01:39 PM

If the place you want to play (and patronize) is not handicap accessable, maybe you can hook up with a local handicap action group. Most large cities have them, and with their weight, business owners can often be persuaded to change their premises. If the owner is unwilling and uninterested in listening to the requests of people, a protest (picketing is always good) may be warrented.

just a thought

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Fortunato
Date: 10 Nov 99 - 02:47 PM

On standards for accepting a gig... Around my town the musicians gunsling in a lot of bands or trios or solos. Most of my cohorts are bar band types these days and/or pub singers. The questions I hear asked most are:

1)When do we get paid? How much? 2)Is there beer? 3)Does the band leader have a girlfriend who thinks she can sing? 4)Is there chicken wire around the stage? 5)What's the load in like? (Big Roadie question) Given that, I haven't seen anybody actually turn down a gig. So the standards must be pretty damn low.

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: emily b
Date: 11 Nov 99 - 12:36 PM

I agree with Liam. If the place is a good place to play, then I'd go for it. I can't afford to be picky at this point in my band's career. We need all the exposure we can get. It seems a bit counter-productive to limit where you play because certain people will not be able to attend. What about the places that charge a cover? Are they not discriminating against the economically challenged? Or to get ridiculous, why perform at all if the deaf people can't hear you? I know we all have our convictions and that is fine but hopefully, people are taking action against what they find wrong and not just being passive-aggressive. Maybe Marion's friend could help put on a fund-raiser to raise money for the bar to add wheelchair accessibility.

As for my band and my a cappella group, we weigh what we'll get out of it in a non-monetary way. Exposure, a favor to a friend, a good cause. I do think, though, that people value more what they have to pay for. May everyone find great venues that pay well and offer free food and beer and can pack the house.

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: lloyd61
Date: 11 Nov 99 - 01:06 PM

No Smoking is a requirement, also I have a contract that is required before the Gig is considered. If anyone wishes a copy of my contract, contact me at: [e-mail].

At my age it is OK to be a little "Picky"

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Blackcat2
Date: 11 Nov 99 - 01:15 PM

Boy - if no-smoking is a "little picky" I'd be curious what you'd consider to be really picky. That is, unless you choose to stay out of bars and clubs. I don't know any around here that are no smoking - probably just the Borders and Barnes & Nobles cafes.

pax yall

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: lloyd61
Date: 11 Nov 99 - 02:03 PM

Bars are a problem, but it is common in all other settings, and a few Bars, for the management to request No Smoking during the set. Try it, I think you will find it is not as hard as you thing. How can you sing with somke in your face? I got tired of coming home with my cloths reeking smoke.

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Blackcat2
Date: 11 Nov 99 - 04:25 PM

Most of the bars/pubs I peform/hang out in have fairly good air filtration systems, but when I look around I see 50% or more of the patrons are smokers - an unfortunate statistic that owners cannot easily ignore. From what I've seen I don't have very much trouble avoiding smoke blowing as me directly but it's the over-all effect of the smoke - like your clothes reeking. I personally can imagine hearing a favorable response from the audience when the barman or barlady says, "And now performing live here's Tom Cook who requests that you refrain from smoking while he's singing." May be I should FIRST request a wall of chicken wire. . .

pax yall

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: lloyd61
Date: 11 Nov 99 - 06:15 PM

I remember playing in Bars that should have required Chicken Wire, I played in a Blue Grass Band, They were good days, we had a lot of fun. Yes, we had to put up with smoke and lots of it, but now I'm to old for that environment. I now like a audience that listens, does not smoke and sings a long.

Good luck in the Bars and Pubs and have fun, time goes fast

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: DonMeixner
Date: 12 Nov 99 - 12:19 AM

Playing a gig for me has very few "Depends On" for me to worry about. If I play a single. I need a sound system that works. A glass of ice and a pitcher of ice. A straight back chair and thats it.

If I'm with my band, we supply the sound but the gig must have some power supply, the glasses and pitchers of ice are the same. We stand rather than play. We like to park close to the door and have coffee and sodas supplied.

I work in the disability biz and I have to say that I'd rather play in accessible venues. I'd also rather pay my bills on time and band money allows me to do that. Also the other four guys don't have the same convictions I do when it comes to accessibility. But the band says we all play or no one plays. I'm not gonna ditch a gig based on my convictions and do four others out of $100.00 a man for a nights work.

Don

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Barbara Shaw
Date: 12 Nov 99 - 08:27 AM

We play benefits, but only for events we believe in.

I only turned down a paying gig once. It was a private dinner party at someone's house, and we were to be the background music during the cocktail hour for a group of 30-somethings (two of whom are our neighbors). The thing fell apart when the hostess asked me, "What exactly is bluegrass, anyway? Would you mind auditioning for us?" She called back a week later to say we didn't need to audition, but I told her it wasn't the sort of event we wanted to perform at.

Fortunately, we're not trying to make a living at it, so we can be choosey. I take my bluegrass seriously, and don't want to mix any bad vibes into what is a wonderful avocation, so I don't play where the music isn't respected.

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Terry Allan Hall
Date: 12 Nov 99 - 09:30 AM

Right on!

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: kendall
Date: 12 Nov 99 - 10:39 AM

Good for you Barbara

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Melbert
Date: 12 Nov 99 - 11:04 AM

I get lots of bookings for December 21st.

That's 'cos the audience usually says "it'll be a cold, dark day befor we come to see you again!"

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: robin
Date: 12 Nov 99 - 12:22 PM

Waterloo County, up here in Ontario, Canada has all bars, restaraunts, and all public access places except private clubs going smoke free January 1, 2000. To smoke in a private club you will have to be a paying member.

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: DonMeixner
Date: 12 Nov 99 - 11:40 PM

Barbara,

Good on you! Ny band would probably have had the same reaction. We do many benefits in a year. And we respect each needful organization we play for. Luckily we've never had to worry or wonder if our music was respected. I'd probably as would the rest of the guys said "Audition? Come hear us when we are at Filthy McNasty's. We don't audition."

When a band has been around for 30 years there are certain rights you enjoy:-).

Don

Subject: RE: Standards for accepting a gig
From: Sam Pirt
Date: 13 Nov 99 - 06:45 AM

I am not choosy about where 'I will play gigs' The more gigs you do the more experience you have, some gigs may be more difficult than others but that should just be logged in your bank of gigs of experienc and beside you can get some good stories on the way. I do gigs from concert halls to little pokey pubs, but each place has its own charicater, but I would say this. Don't get underpaid for what you do otherwise you may start to be used by people and not appreciated. Its funny because if you do charge a lot the people make more of an effort to enjoy the night, that said it is always important to do the odd free or lower paid gig because after all the more playing you do and the more people hear you the better and it isn't all about money (it isn't for me anyway) I love playing and unless I am already booked for something on the same night I don't usually turn gigs down.

Cheers, Sam