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Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax

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Stringsinger 20 Aug 13 - 10:14 AM
Leadfingers 20 Aug 13 - 10:28 AM
Stringsinger 20 Aug 13 - 10:32 AM
GUEST,The vandal who stole the handle 20 Aug 13 - 10:39 AM
Jim Carroll 20 Aug 13 - 10:43 AM
GUEST 20 Aug 13 - 10:44 AM
bobad 20 Aug 13 - 10:46 AM
Little Hawk 20 Aug 13 - 11:08 AM
Jeri 20 Aug 13 - 11:13 AM
Jeri 20 Aug 13 - 11:14 AM
Stringsinger 20 Aug 13 - 11:14 AM
Little Hawk 20 Aug 13 - 11:41 AM
Jeri 20 Aug 13 - 11:54 AM
Little Hawk 20 Aug 13 - 11:58 AM
Stringsinger 20 Aug 13 - 12:55 PM
Little Hawk 20 Aug 13 - 01:13 PM
Don Firth 20 Aug 13 - 01:48 PM
GUEST,Stim 20 Aug 13 - 02:01 PM
wysiwyg 20 Aug 13 - 03:17 PM
Joe_F 20 Aug 13 - 03:17 PM
Don Firth 20 Aug 13 - 03:48 PM
Bill D 20 Aug 13 - 04:52 PM
GUEST 20 Aug 13 - 04:56 PM
GUEST,Allan Conn 20 Aug 13 - 05:25 PM
Don Firth 20 Aug 13 - 05:39 PM
bobad 20 Aug 13 - 05:40 PM
Little Hawk 20 Aug 13 - 06:29 PM
voyager 20 Aug 13 - 06:39 PM
alex s 20 Aug 13 - 07:01 PM
Little Hawk 20 Aug 13 - 07:14 PM
GUEST, reidh beallagh 20 Aug 13 - 10:09 PM
Little Hawk 20 Aug 13 - 11:46 PM
GUEST,Allan Conn 21 Aug 13 - 03:01 AM
GUEST,Allan Conn 21 Aug 13 - 03:22 AM
Jim Carroll 21 Aug 13 - 06:35 AM
voyager 21 Aug 13 - 08:53 AM
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Little Hawk 21 Aug 13 - 09:58 AM
Ron Davies 21 Aug 13 - 10:22 AM
Little Hawk 21 Aug 13 - 10:26 AM
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Subject: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 10:14 AM

Dylan hoax: Lyrics no sense

Hot off the press. I always wondered about this. Too much, too soon.
I think he got lucky with some of his songs.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Leadfingers
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 10:28 AM

I have long wondered wether B D was seeing how far he could go as a 'Modern Poet' , and eventually realised that the critics could be fooled for ever so went back to just writing good songs


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 10:32 AM

Another news flash, it may be that Dylan's quotes are a hoax but I just don't know.
If they're not they had a lot of people fooled.

Since I'm not a Dylan fan, it matters not one way or another to me.

I never thought of him as a great poet and was shocked to discover he was given an
honorary degree from "Hahvahd". It shows just how low the educational system in
this country has sank.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: GUEST,The vandal who stole the handle
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 10:39 AM

Consider the source for this article before taking it seriously.

About
Posted By The Global Edition On Sunday, June 10th, 2012 With 2 Comments

Theglobaledition.com is world's most global news source. Information found on this website is so unique that it's impossible to find it on any other website, unless someone copy-pastes it without our knowledge, in which case this sentence is totally unnecessary.

Sometimes we do use real events and names of people and/or institutions in our stories but only for satirical or parodical purposes. If you are one of them and you don't want your public persona to be exposed to the public sense of humor, please let us know at editor (at) theglobaledition.com and we will do our best to ignore it.

We do our best not to provide you with factual and accurate information. If that by any chance happens, please let us know so we are able to correct the mistake and fire the author who allowed himself to think he is a journalist.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 10:43 AM

Can I be the first to say I never had the slightest doubt about it
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 10:44 AM

It's actually harder to deliberately write some meaningless lyrics (providing they are reasonably good lyrics in terms of their effect, structure, rythm, etc) than it is to just naturally write lyrics that do mean something...at least at the subconscious level...because the subconscious almost always gets involved in the process.

It's a laborious process to deliberately write something meaningless. It's a natural process to convey meaning. Some of Dylan's lines in the surrealist stuff he wrote in '65-66 probably didn't mean anything in particular...but on the other hand, some of them definitely did. I can't think of any song he wrote in that period which doesn't carry a pretty evident and strong meaning, but there will be certain odd phrases in them here and there which are pretty arbitrary.

There is, however, an emotional foundation in them that's usually clear as can be, and it says something meaningful, and that's why people like those songs.

Now, you want to see some really chaotic free verse by Dylan that'll mostly leave you scratching your head? Try reading "Tarantula" (the book).

He had a contract to write that book, didn't really want to much, and he ended up just churning out a bunch of surrealist stuff that didn't communicate anything anyone can make much sense out of.

The period when he wrote that way was pretty brief...basically in 1965 and '66. If you look at the songs he did in '67 after the motor cycle accident when he recorded John Wesley Harding, they are spare, simple, economical use of words, well expressed, and well sung. Most of them are nondenominational religious parables or moral tales about the fall from grace...and it seems pretty clear that he's talking about himself.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: bobad
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 10:46 AM

It's a good way to root out the gullible.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 11:08 AM

The terms "gullible" and "conventional" have been natural bedfellows ever since the dawn of time. If something's in style or is "popular", most people just accept it without question. They don't think about it, they adopt it. This goes way beyond a discussion of Bob Dylan, needless to say.

Then you have some people (a small minority in any society) who will only accept the extremely unusual! ;-) It's another form of gullibility than the conventional, but it's driven by a different impulse...the impulse to be a rebel against convention. Either way, the impulse gets taken too far.

Dylan may indeed have been playing games with critics and sycophants and seeing just how far he could go. He certainly did that in his interviews with the press at the time (in '65 and '66). Many of the answers he gave them were bizarre, often hilarious, arbitrary, misleading, certainly not to be taken literally, but rather to convey how he felt about the very process of being asked the usual repetitive questions by the press. He was ruthlessly making fun of the process and doing it at the expense of those interviewing him...depending on who they were, and whether he liked them or not.

This ended up, curiously, with interviews that could sometimes be far more entertaining than the standard interview is...provided you could see the humour in it. I think he may have done us all a favour. He certainly made the scene more interesting.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 11:13 AM

For the record, a couple sentences and a couple fragments plus a link is not a 'Review'.

It's from May.
Related news:

Marina Abramovic Admits To Lady Gaga She Was Just Fucking With Her This Entire Time
   and
Small-Dicked Environmentalist Purchases Tesla Roadster
   and
Sci-Fi Author Envisions Alternate Reality Where He Has A Girlfriend
   and
Blood-soaked Film Not Suited For Children Due to Nudity
But yeah, bobad, it is amusing to see who takes the stuff literally. (Whatever 'literally' currently means.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 11:14 AM

And while I wrote that, Little Hawk stepped up and was counted.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 11:14 AM

I'll pass. I'm not a fan. There's no question that he did "reach" a lot of people and not in the best way possible. It's probably a satire but it brings up an interesting point. At what point does "surrealist stuff" become good lyric writing? As for the nondenominational religious
parable or moral tale, this stuff IMHO is boring. So the satire about "surrealist stuff"
has a factual basis. The only song I really ever liked of his was "Tomorrow is a Long Time".
Much of "Don't Think Twice" and "Positively Fourth Street" is polemic and bitter. He comes across as a misogynist in song.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 11:41 AM

Just talking about something I've always found interesting, Jeri.

I find plenty of meaning in those songs Dylan wrote during his surrealist phase in 65-66, but there is the odd phrase in them here and there which is probably pretty arbitrary. I don't take the linked article seriously.

Matter of fact, I think some of the most meaningful lyrics ever written are found in some of those songs, such as in "It's Allright, Ma", for one.

Strinsinger - Virtually all male songwriters sound misogynist in some of their songs. That's because we often encounter extreme frustration and disappointment in relationships, same as women do. Gordon Lightfoot, for example, has written many very beautiful and tender love songs, but he also wrote "That's What You Get For Lovin' Me" and "I'm Not Sayin'", which are so absolutely chauvinist that it's almost funny...or infuriating...depending on how seriously you decide to take it.

"Positively Fourth Street" is about as bitter a song as can be imagined. Extraordinary. I'm always surprised when people ask me to play it for them, but some people seem to find it very cathartic, so I will occasionally comply if that's what they really want.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Jeri
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 11:54 AM

Somewhat seriously:
There's a big divide between literal thinkers and abstract thinkers, although quite a number of them can understand the other way of looking at things... mostly the abstract thinkers.
I've heard people say they don't like certain lines because they leave too much open to interpretation. Too much room for the listener to assign their own meanings. That's the whole point of writing that way. While I would dearly love to know what a certain composer was thinking when he wrote a line, I know that if he's writing in that style, it's the effect that matters, not the intention. I'd guess quite a few of those composers would refuse to say, anyway. It means what it means.

There are arguments about whether certain interpretations are right or wrong, but all the arguments are pointless... unless it's a no-questions-possible, can-t-be-anything-else literal interpretation. Even then, people argue. Maybe that's the one constant.

You say 'potato'
I say... it's a dream planted in rich, brown wormlands, free to grow roots and become, under a sun it cannot see, above the rocks it cannot feel, shaped according to nature and keeping to its purpose: to become.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 11:58 AM

Yeah! ;-D Well said, Jeri. That's a wonderful description of a potatoe. (Or potato?) (which is it?)


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Stringsinger
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 12:55 PM

I say.....it's a misty-eyed blowfish in a sea of mediocrity, surfacing to fool the fisherman
into thinking he has a whale.

Another generalization about abstract versus literal but the category left out is
deception.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 01:13 PM

Why do we not have debates like this about Paul Anka and Freddie Fender? ;-) And when will Tony Clifton receive the respect he deserves?


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 01:48 PM

Well. . . .

I can't say that I have ever been impressed by Bob Dylan. Lots of people I knew (particularly blues addicts—and addicts of various other kinds) went bananas over his first record and seemed to think he was the Messiah returned.

But here was a kid from Hibbing, Minnesota who, his school mates said, had a halfway decent singing voice, sounding a bit like Buddy Holly, when he was in his high school rock and roll phase, who, when he took up folk music, apparently gargled with Drain-o to make himself sound like a ninety-year-old who just fell off the turnip truck, dropped his surname of Zimmerman and appropriated the name of a well-known Irish poet, then borrowed the biography of Woody Guthrie (tried to BS Cynthia Gooding about his background when she interviewed him on her radio program).

Then, when he returned Joan Baez's pushing his career (careen?) by treating her in an absolutely shabby manner, he really lost it with me—who wasn't very impressed with him in the first place.

But enough of this.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 02:01 PM

Positively 4th Street, as scathing as it it is, is honest anger toward a hypocritical false friend--the fact that the "you" is unnamed and unidentifiable makes it easy to identify with--we've all thought these things about someone we associated with. Likely, these lyrics, which are about as direct as you can get are a reflection, thought rather than spoken.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: wysiwyg
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 03:17 PM

TuhMAHtoe

~S~


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Joe_F
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 03:17 PM

Don Firth: *Welsh* poet, and not, it seems, all that well known any more. %^)


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 03:48 PM

Welsh. Right! My boo-boo. I really knew better, just in a rush.

"A Child's Christmas in Ireland?" I don't think so!

Don Firth

P. S. Point of interest:   my customary "watering hole" near the University of Washington in Seattle, the infamous "Blue Moon Tavern," has had a number of famous visitors, particularly of the writer-boozer persuasion, one of whom was Dylan Thomas on an American tour in the very early 1950s, shortly before his death in 1953.

Unfortunately, I wasn't there that night.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Bill D
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 04:52 PM

Dylan always reminded me of Picasso... he COULD paint well, but did not always bother because people would buy anything he did.

The first time I ever heard Dylan, about 1964, I listened to about 8-9 tracks of one his first albums and said: "What is THAT?" Then I said "Hmmm... a couple of those are moving and strong, if not exactly wonderful musically."

I like "Hattie Carrol" and "Masters of War" and a couple others... as powerful statements... not for easy listening.

The mumbling and what felt to me like "affected" style meant to be vaguely similar to black blues just left me shrugging.

I dunno... if *I* had discovered an easy way to be a millionaire, I might have tried it.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: GUEST
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 04:56 PM

And this is the latest stage of the ongoing hoax, if you want to call it a hoax.

This is one of our most gifted tricksters playing another riff. That's what Dylan's always done. Have you ever known him to do the expected thing? No. He's playing with our senses again.

Even at his worst (and this sounds like a low) he's never failed to entertain. While we're watching the parking meters, he's off to the next U-turn, always staying ahead of everybody's expectations.

That's what has made him great. With every album and every tour he's gone off in a different direction, antagonizing fans who expected him to stay in the same mold. His life, the same—always leaving for the next station, with Sad-Eyed Ladies weeping in his wake. He's always keeping a few too many balls in the air at once to quite follow with the naked eye.

I say this as someone who's been astonished and nourished by his music and his mind since my 20s when he came on the scene: this is another one of his changes. Enjoy it. But don't believe it too much. Because he'll be saying something totally different next time.

Best to all, Bob


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 05:25 PM

"highway 69 Revisited" "Blonde On Blonde" "Desire" and "Blood On The Tracks" all come in on my favourite album list. apart from that many other albums are laced with classic songs even if some of the earlier ones are more than a bit borrowed. I don't rate his first album at all. All personal taste I know.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Don Firth
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 05:39 PM

I'm generally unbamboozled by Dylan (Bob, that is) mainly because I tend to simply ignore him. He wrote a couple of interesting songs in the protest vein back in the Sixties, but there was a lot of that going on. It seemed to be the fashionable thing back then. I tended to like Tom Paxton's stuff, but then, so did a lot of people.

Frankly, I much prefer traditional songs, well performed, without trying to be cute about it, or adopting some phony persona.

Don Firth


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: bobad
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 05:40 PM

"highway 69 Revisited"

Isn't that the name of a porn movie he appeared in?


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 06:29 PM

Well, we all have our own tastes. I look for songs and singers who:

- move my emotions powerfully
- give me something interesting to think about in their lyrics
- convey a strong intelligence
- hold up some kind of high ideals in their songs
- honor the past musical traditions AND innovate at the same time
- have a certain kind of unique intensity and style

And along that line I have greatly appreciated (in no particular order):

Joan Baez
Buffy Sainte-Marie
Bob Dylan
Leonard Cohen
Jackson Browne
Mary Chapin Carpenter
Lynn Miles
Al Stewart
Ian Tyson
Sylvia Tyson
Odetta
Melanie
Judy Collins
Joni Mitchell
Gordon Lightfoot
Willy Nelson
Emmylou Harris
Loreena McKennit
Neil Young

Now the interesting thing is that (with the possible exception of Joni M., who can be rather caustic about some other performers at times) all these people, when asked, have expressed great appreciation for each other's contributions and creativity in the field of music...and most of them think very highly of Bob's work, while he has also spoken highly of their work in most cases.

That shows good sense on their part. And experience. And maturity. Having done the hard work themselves, they know enough to respect similar hard work by someone else.

Whether you like the performer's style or their voice is a matter of personal taste, but don't think they didn't have to work pretty hard to get there. It is no easy ride, and not for Mr Dylan either.

****

bobad -

If the Dylan porn movie had ever been made, it would have probably been based upon either "Ballad of a Thin Man" or "Wiggle, Wiggle". ;-)

Gay porn in the first case ("the sword swallower walks up to you and he kneels, he crosses himself and he clicks his high heels, and without further ado asks you how it feels, and says "Here is your throat back, thanks for the loan")

or cooking porn in the latter ("Wiggle, wiggle like a bowl of soup!")


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: voyager
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 06:39 PM

Blind Boy Grunt (aka Bobby Z., Bobby D.) is the archetypal GEMINI (constantly changing in persona and artistic craft).

See also the movie -
    I'm Not There (Here) (her) (he)

Hee hee hee

voyager


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: alex s
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 07:01 PM

Hollis Brown makes very grim sense to me


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 07:14 PM

And North Country Blues does too. Hibbing was a dying mining town that had seen better times, so Bob had good reason to be inspired to write such a song.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: GUEST, reidh beallagh
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 10:09 PM

he's kidding. The stuff that makes NO SENSE at all, is from being super high on speed and LSD. The stuff that is odd yet hauntingly reminiscent of sense is when he was coming down. Desolation Row, for instance is while mildly amped and toked up looking out on the town in his mind. he just doesn't want to say "yeah I got high all the time. I was high when the motorcycle crashed. So fucking what?" I didn't even know that guy fucked edie sedgewick, got married, had kids, and almost died in accident, before I got out of jail in 67. High High High.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Little Hawk
Date: 20 Aug 13 - 11:46 PM

There could be such a drug connection as you suggest in a song like Desolation Row, but it seems mainly to me to be a comment on what he saw as a decadent and decaying society around him, a theme that Dylan has been writing about for his entire adult life in one way or another. And it's also a comment about various mind games people play...both on themselves and on others...various forms of pretense and hiding from life, such as the marvelous verse about Ophelia:

Now Ophelia 'neath the window
For her I feel so afraid
On her 22nd birthday
She already is an old maid
To her, death is quite romantic
She wears an iron vest
Her profession's her religion
Her sin is her lifelessness
And though her eyes are fixed upon
Noah's great rainbow
She spends her time peaking into Desolation Row


That is simply marvelous poetry. And haven't we all known some people like Ophelia, whose profession is their religion and whose sin (their primary problem) is their lifelessness? Some of us may be people a lot like Ophelia.

Elsewhere on the liner notes he says that "lifelessness is the great enemy". And that's no accident. The same thought is echoed in the verse about Ophelia.

It isn't meaningless writing, it's writing so absolutely full of meaning that it practically jumps off the page.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 03:01 AM

You're right Hawk I love that verse too and it makes perfect sense. There are other lyrics which I've not fathomed out yet what they are about. If they are about anything. However that isn't an issue for me anyway. Sometimes it is just the sound of the words themselves or the imagery that is thrown up by them that draws me in.

Anyway of the albums that I mentioned many of the songs are straightforward lyrics and not these abstract ones. It is just great music and can still draw the young uns in. My son was about 16 when he said to me on the sly "Dad what was that song you were listening to about Mr Jones?" It was Ballad Of A Thin Man and he then disappeared with two or three Dylan albums and was hooked. No prompting or direction required from me.

Classic examples of abstract songs are two of David Bowie's lyrics on Hunky Dory (ie one of my all time favourite albums). They are Quicksand and The Bewley Brothers. I haven't a clue what he is singing about but I love the sound and imagery in the lyrics. Doesn't stop me liking the straightforward narrative of old ballads. Doesn't have to be one or the other :-)


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: GUEST,Allan Conn
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 03:22 AM

As to the Woody impersonation etc we as I said I'm not a fan of his first album anyway. Love Freewheeling and Times They Are A Changing though. However come on he was only a kid when he arrived in New York! Jeez I'm thinking give the guy a break. Besides you don't need to like an artist to like their work! Or do you?

I suppose I am from another generation so don't have that 1960s mind set anway about him. For someone around earlier it may sound inconceivable but as a 16 year old 17 year old I didn't really know who Bob Dylan was. Or I'd heard the name but didn't really know the music outside his couple of 70s UK hits. I was the singer in a local punk band (just High School stuff etc) when one of the guys was playing a compilation tape he'd made. I heard something and thought "wow what the hell is that?". It was just Dylan singing Blowing In The Wind. Most of the others thought it was absolute crap but I just loved the sound of his voice and the lyric. Started buying his albums and of course there was no youtube in those days so I ended up with one or two turkeys but most were really good and several I thought were simply amazing.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 06:35 AM

Early thoughts On Dylan - 1964
Jim Carroll

Speedwell's confessions cont.
I discover Bobbie Dylan's secret
Jack Speedwell.

Jack Speedwell, disguised as a down-at-heel literary man and rogue journalist, haunts the purlieus of the British folk scene.
Originally a foundling, Speedwell was brought up and educated by lay-brothers attached to an obscure sect of Jehosophart's Wetnoses. By training and temperament he was destined to spend his life writing inoffensive squibs for Song and Dance, organ of the EFDSS. Captured by sinister Chinese agents, he is subjected to prolonged brainwashing and then let loose upon the unsuspecting world of the folk revival. There, carrying out the post-hypnotic commands of his erstwhile captors, he embarks upon the foul task of filtering the poison of ideas into the atmosphere of love and togetherness which surrounds the revival. One of the main targets for his hatred is the boy-genius, B. Dylan. Speedwell never questions the blind forces which urge him on to destroy the public image of this brilliant youth until one day he reads a review written by the famous seminarist, the Reverend Sydney Carter, D.D. and, as a result, his mind is restored to its former balance. Horrified by the realisation of the damage which his evil criticism must have wrought upon virgin minds, Speedwell determines to make amends by publicly confessing his sins.   NOW READ ON:

Consider this couplet from God on your side:

Though they murdered 6 million, in the ovens they fried,
The Germans now too have God on their side,

The tremendous sweep of this couplet, with the extraordinary simplicity of the diction, cannot he matched outside of McGonigal's immortal poem on The Tay Bridge Disaster:

So the train mov' d slowly along the Bridge of Tay
Until it was about mid-day,
Then the central girders with a crash gave way,
And down went the train and passengers into the Tay.

The Storm-fiend did loudly bray
Because ninety lives had been taken away,
On the last Sabbath Day of 1879,
Which will be remembered for a very long time.

Note the way that both these masters make use of the evocative phrase. What could he more stirring than the frying image in Bobby's poem? Everyone in these islands who has ever queued for fish-and-chips and idly read the frying schedule above the great pans will he moved by it. But Bobby's tremendous craft¬manship is seen at its best in Fare thee well, my own true love; the song on which The Leaving of Liverpool was based. The opening stanza is a model of economy:

Oh, it's fare thee well, my darlin' true,
I'm a-leavin' in the first hour of the morn;
I'm off for the Bay of Mexico,
Or maybe the coast of Californ.

The omission of the final "i-a, is a touch of genius, and by effecting it, Bobby Dylan has opened up the road to a completely new and simplified rhyming system.
Just think of its immense possibilities when applied to British place-names; for example:

Do not weep for me, my dear,
For soon 1'll be returning;
By tomorrow afternoon
I'11 be back with you in Birming.
Again:

Goodbye, old girl, I'm leavin' you,
It's back to my old ranch;
Soon I'll be in Calif
Leaving you in Manch.
Or:
Mother, mother, I am hungry,
What is on the shelf?
Alas, dear daughter, times are hard
Now we are in Belf.

It is equally effective in other metrical forms, such, as:

Aberd, Aberd,
Prettiest place I ever heard.

In the second stanza of Fare thee well, Bobby introduces yet another brilliant literary innovation in the phrase:

I'm a'travellin' on a path-beaten trail.

"Path-beaten trail" -what tremendous possibilities are opened up by this kind of usage. For example:

0, my dearest darling, pity my achin' feet
As I proceed upon my way, down the roady street.

Or:
One day I will come back to you,
Along the streety avenue.

These examples by no means exhaust Bobby's amazing ingen¬uity, there are similar revolutionary ideas of composition to he found throughout all his work; British songwriters would do well to study them.
There! I feel better for having written that. It is as if a great burden had been removed from my shoulders and it is my fervent hope that my humble words will have the effect of wiping out all those dreadful things I once wrote about Bobby. Soon I will he completely cleansed of all my uncharitable tendencies for, in the near future, I intend to make restitution to Joanie, too. Yes, Joanie-pony, one day I will he worthy of you and people will point at me and say "There goes the most amiable fellow in the world."

Folk Music magazine;
Vol. 1 No 10.
1964


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: voyager
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 08:53 AM

"The Jack of Hearts who speaks out
in the time of the ostrich
the one who sees the ostrich
the one who sees what the ostrich sees in the sand
the one who digs the mystery
and stands in the corner smiling
like a Jack of Hearts"

The Jack of Hearts (for Dylan) - Lawrence Ferlinghetti (1976)

voyager


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: voyager
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 09:02 AM

Found this Talking Blues version of the Jack of Hearts. And I dig it.

Jack of Hearts (Mattthew Von Baeyer & David Goss)

Listen up (you hear)?


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 09:58 AM

Heh! MacGonagall...! Oh, yes, the Brilliant Bard of Scotland is well remembered to this day, Jim. I am pleased to see that you appreciate his greatness as well as that of Bob and Joanie.

I rather like "path-beaten trail" phrase. It seems quite evocative to me, and the song works well.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Ron Davies
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 10:22 AM

Hey, LH, you're bearing up remarkably well under this devastating news (thread topic). Sounds like you might survive after all. That's good.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 10:26 AM

You betcha, Ron. ;-) Doing just fine here.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 10:36 AM

"Brilliant Bard of Scotland"
Absolutely - wild horses wouldn't take me over The Tay Bridge!
The article was one of a series of satirical pieces by the mysterious Jack Speedwell published in Fred Dallas's excellent 'Folk Music Magazine'
Whatever one may think of Dylan as a rhymer (I've always concurred with Dylan's own present analysis of his compositions) for me he opitomised the phoninness of the over-hyped 'swinging sixties' "say what you want as long as you don't say anything".
If he'd never existed Langley would have had to invent him.   
He was not so much a "Judas", as somebody called him at Newport, more of a 'Judas Goat' for the rest of us
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 11:08 AM

Well, y'know...my solution to this sort of thing is simple. I listen to singers whose music and lyrics I like. That's what I focus on. If everyone were to do this, I think they'd have no trouble finding what they were looking for and having a good time.

However....if what they're really looking for is a fight or a chance to put down somebody else, then maybe that method just doesn't fit their emotional needs.

Anyway, I haven't been listening to much Avril Lavigne lately. Or much Lady Gaga. But I have been listening to Lynn Miles.


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 12:20 PM

Go along with that LH, but that wasn't what Dylan was really about - certainly not in the context of the songs he was making at the time.
I remember how everybody made a great issue on the wonderful job he was doing for The Civil Rights Movement, yet when he was asked to join Seeger and the rest of them on the Freedom Riders protests on the buses down South, his manager said he was "too busy" and "couldn't afford the fair anyway?"
In the end he was shamed into going when actor Theodore Bikel paid his fare.
Jim Carroll


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Subject: RE: Bob Dylan 50yr. hoax
From: Little Hawk
Date: 21 Aug 13 - 01:03 PM

Yeah, he didn't have much interest in participating in political events or marches...usually avoided doing so. Nevertheless, his songs did do much to help motivate people in the civil rights movement and the antiwar movement, so they proved quite useful at the time. His value was as a writer, not as a direct participant...(and it has been said "the pen is mightier than the sword".)(at times, not always)

He did show up on one notable occasion, though. He and Joan Baez sang at the March on Washington the same day when Martin Luther King gave his famous "I have a dream" speech. I think Peter, Paul, and Mary were also there and sang that day.


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