BS: chemical weapons in Syria

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 02:54 PM

Just watched Obama on television slugging away at his policy (which we wre told he doesn't agree with - wonder where our resident prat got the idea that the Tea Party were the Tea Party were the only ones supporting intervention - strange world!!)
It seems the main argument against intervention is that it "isn't in our (America's") interest - fair enough I suppose.
I never thought I would ever support the idea of the U.S. sending troops into anywhere (I was one of the 50,000 crammed into Grosvevnor Square in 1969), but to leave the Syrian people to be massacred by one of out old Allies seems totally obscene to me.
The Assads of this world are largely our creatures - we traded with them, we were silent about their appalling human rights records - we even sold the bastards munitions, even provided the wherewithal to make the chemical weapons they are now using.
After the Arab Spring protests started we were holding Arms Fairs to sell to potential Assads including Bahrain for ****'* sake!
The fact that the Syrian Arab Spring protests were allowed to develop into civil war can largely be laid at the door of the 'civilised' west is due largely to the fact that the rest of the world sat on its hands and did nothing because "it was not in our interests"
If intervention galvanises the U.N. into getting off their collective arses, or even if it only causes Assad to pause and thin on what it MIGHT DO to Syrian/British relationship we are informed he treasures so greatly, we will have at least made an effort.
To sit back and watch further slaughter is unthinkable if we are to continue to call ourselves human beings
"And the great game of the conquering empires goes on and on"
Can't say how much I agree with your last paragraph Guest
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 09:50 AM

From Eric Margolis' latest column...(I've nothing to add to it, except some "bold" coding in one place. He says it all.)

September 7, 2013

Recalling the massacres and destruction during the 1820's Greek war of independence from the Ottoman Empire, then Victor Hugo wrote, "the Turks have passed by here – All is in ruins and mourning."

Today, the nations in ruins and mourning are Iraq, Sudan, Afghanistan, and, to a lesser degree, Libya, all dismembered or broken up by the power of the mighty American Raj.

Syria is clearly the next target of the American imperial bulldozer. After two years of brutal rebellion armed and financed by the US and its regional allies, Syria now faces devastation.

A campaign of air-strikes and missiles will crush Syria's air force, tanks, artillery and communications. Israel stands ready to sweep up the ruins of Syria.

Pure black comedy. Shamelessly stealing Bush administration propaganda, the Obama White House has been actually warning that Syria's chemical weapons (most of their raw materials came from Europe) pose a dire threat to the United States. Syria acquired chemical weapons to counter Israel's large arsenal of nuclear weapons, originally supplied by France.

Failure to act will be another Munch appeasement, warns Obama. But the US Congress could not take action because it was still on summer vacation.

President Obama even allowed there was no urgency for action. The important thing he declared was that America's "credibility" was at stake. Politicians invoke credibility as a excuse after they have made a huge blunder –notably Obama's foolish "red lines" in Syria that boxed the president into a corner of his own making.

What we are seeing is the latest, 21st century version of the new era of colonialism and imperialism, with a touch of Crusader zeal thrown in.

Today, the favored euphemism is humanitarian intervention, but the song remains the same. Syria is not about poison gas or human rights: it's about a proxy war against Iran, the only nation now challenging total US and Israel military domination of the Mideast.

For France, it's about reasserting its former colonial rule in Syria and Lebanon

In 1857, a Chinese baker in Hong Kong tried to poison the British trade superintendent. Britain's parliament was summoned to vote on retaliation against China. The vote did not pass. But soon after a new parliament with more conservatives voted for war.

France rushed to join Britain, citing the killing of a French missionary. Russia and the US joined. The Second Opium War had begun. China was quickly defeated by the western powers and forced to open it ports to their commerce and begin consuming highly addictive opium grown in the British Indian Raj.

Look at current events in Syria in this historical light rather than all the indignation over chemical weapons in Syria. Besides, given that the weird Japanese cult, Aum Shinrikyo, managed to produce home-made Sarin ( I just barley missed its attack on Tokyo's subway), how do we know who really made Syria's gas?

Far more important, the US Congress has become seriously corrupted by special interest money – and that's putting it gently. How else did all the Wall Street bankers escape punishment for their egregious financial frauds and theft?

Now, other wealthy special interest in America are beating the war drums and pulling the strings of their legislators. Israel is pushing the US hard to destroy its old foe Syria – which would remove the last Arab state capable of offering even modest military resistance to Israel.

So it seems likely the upcoming Congressional vote may approve a "limited" war. But remember "mission creep" from Vietnam days? Previous estimates of a so-called limited air campaign against Iran called for over 3,200 targets to be hit repeatedly.

And who will rule Syria after President Bashar Assad is deposed or killed? Today's Iraq, Libya and Afghanistan hardly offer a promising example of Washington-guided democracy.

Washington is still trying to figure out what happened to Herzegovina – it's not ready for Syria's maddening complexity. In fact, I'd wager that most members of the US Congress could not find Syria on a map. Ordinary taxpaying Americans, polls show, are totally against yet another jolly little war that has no sense to it, no exit strategy, and that offers only mayhem and confusion.

But the US chariot of the Juggernaut just keeps rolling along.



****

Wait. I'll add this. There once was a great fascist Axis that threatened the world in the 1940s with a series of invasions and imperial expansions through military force and specious propaganda. It was composed of Germany, Italy, and Japan. One of its creations, Fascist Spain, survived the war that brought down that Axis.

There has been a new Axis rising in the world ever since 1945 (and accelerate since 911). It is composed of the USA, the UK, France, and Israel. It has already crushed several independent nations in its quest to extend empire. It now intends to crush one more: Syria. And after that? Iran.

Who will stop this new fascist Axis in its imperial march across the world? The ironical thing is that the new fascist Axis is composed of the very governments and cultures (in the West, that is) who conquered the last one! That's how it tends to go with empires, if you look back at history with an honest and nonpartisan eye. One bloody tyrant is thrown down, and another bloody tyrant (the victor) rises in his place. And the great game of the conquering empires goes on and on. We in the West presently ARE what we fought against in WWII! The Zionist zealots in the Israeli government presently ARE what their own grandparents were rounded up by and killed by in the 1940s.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 08:51 AM

Breakfast in America- a cup of coffee and a bowl of Syria. Yuck!

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 04:58 AM

Back off you moronic troll
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 04:17 AM

Thread "CHEMICAL WEAPONS IN SYRIA"

Not withstanding Cameron's defeat, UKIP was the only British party opposed to the intervention.
In US, it seems to be the Tea Party.

And most of Mudcat are with them!

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 03:47 AM

"Because we are not discussing Israel Jim."
Do not tell me what we're discussing Keith - you and your moronic buddies have been discussing Israel on this thread since the beginning - you lyingly attempted to claim that I have done the same.
It's bad enough that there are religious nutters running around the Middle East killing each other and using British-sold (regular and chemical) weapons to do so, without having to put up with the thought that the same morons had got as far as to infest this forum
You thought thugs first placed Israel here on the scene - live with it
Back off - and don't you dare tell me or anybody else what we can, can't and should discuss on this forum - you appear to be stricken with a Messiah complex, apart from everything thing else that you have going for you - YOU ARE NOT A FORUM ADMINISTRATOR AND, CERTAINLY FROM YOUR RECENT BEHAVIOUR, YOU NEVER SHALL BE - UNLESS THE LUNATICS ARE FINALLY GIVEN THE KEYS TO THE ASYLUM.
Back off
Unless you suddenly develop the bottle to attempt to quailfy your lyng (oh, I forgot - you "do not lie") I have nothing to say to you; go and talk to Sanitary and take his example of saying nothing (even though he take up a great deal of space saying it).
Israel is a legitimate subject for inclusion here.
Assad and his killers are unfortunately not the only ones in the Middle East. Iran (with her aspirations to nuclear capability) is waiting in the wings, and Israel, in the almost invincible position of having full nuclear capability, the US veto and God (as some of their fanatics would have us believe) on her side, has been doing her slaughtering for a long, long time - not the best prospects for the future for us and ours.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 02:59 AM

Kieth: "Because we are not discussing Israel Jim."

Hey man, stop for just a second....think of all the emotions that got stirred up about this, just thinking about it... ....OK?...........OK?......They're trying hard for that, for some hidden agenda....THEY STILL DON'T FOR SURE WHO DID IT......OK, you can breathe again......Now, can you see why, a lot of people are suspicious, and not behind it??..If you wanna talk about Israel, well it's about as relevant as...well, anything...because if they don't have a target group, that they know for SURE,..why are they pushing it so hard???
You may be listening to too many morons, yourself, Chief!...
Who, How, Why!!!

Until that's down, this is ALL bullshit...the emotional frenzy ESPECIALLY!

Sincerely,

GfS

P.S. In case you might not be aware of my posts, on the matter, I'd suggest you looking at the CIA thread, running concurrently....

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 01:54 AM

None of you morons have had the bottle to acknowledged that there is a peace conference going on, let alone explain (or eccuse) Israel's deliberate attempts to scupper it

Because we are not discussing Israel Jim.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 08:35 PM

"Was there something in particular that you wanted me to answer or comment on from you??..If so what is it exactly?"
Didn't want tp "ask" you anything
None of you morons have had the bottle to acknowledged that there is a peace conference going on, let alone explain (or eccuse) Israel's deliberate attempts to scupper it - each time, scurrying behind attempts to rewrite ancient history
Why you should possibly think you have anything of interest to say is beyond me - it's just amusing to see you go through the motns
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 05:20 PM

By the flip of a coin, eh?

You ought to send that one up to Military Strategic and Tactical Command!

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Lighter
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 04:42 PM

There is no way to know the actual results of either action or inaction.
And the same will be true if Assad continues to use lethal gases in spite of punishment.

Regardless of treaty obligations, any government with WMDs may be expected to use them if they think their backs are to the wall and their personal safety is not at risk. That is simply a statement of human nature. The only way to force Assad and his crew to relent would be to nuke them. Personally. That option is not on the table. Nor should it be.

Maybe few missiles will influence the man. Maybe not.

The US could save itself a lot of money by flipping a coin. Regardless of the ultimate decision, more complicated methods in this case offer no better promise of a good result.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 01:02 PM

Kieth A of Hertford: "So, was Obama wrong to make it a red line?
Should he have announced that no action would be taken?"



He was running his mouth, forgetting that he was not running for anything, and wanted to look like he meant business...now he's running his mouth again, drumming up support to invade, when the world has no idea who did it....other than who he says did it, which is as about as reliable as a cardboard rubber!...May be he KNOWS who did it...maybe they were just obeying his orders...maybe not...maybe they were obeying a corporation's orders..maybe not...maybe they worked for an international bank..or a multinational bank...maybe not...maybe the rebels...maybe not..maybe Assad's forces..maybe not.....
...Too many maybes to invade somebody over, eh??

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,keith A
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 12:13 PM

So, was Obama wrong to make it a red line?
Should he have announced that no action would be taken?

Collateral damage?
That is indeed a serious and difficult issue.
Would you rule out any use of force that might cause it?
Was it wrong to invade occupied Europe?

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 11:47 AM

Don T: "It's been done before, and it is always disastrous, usually for the very people you are trying to save.
Anyone with genuine concern for the victims of Assad's desire to hang on to power should be beating their political leaders over the head with the message that we want all of them to get together and make genuine diplomatic efforts.
TALK FIRST! Leave the bombs in storage."

Being as we DON'T know for sure if Assad actually used the gasses, or if it was somebody else, I agree with you on this one.

(quick, get him the smelling salts!)

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Ron Davies
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 11:37 AM

Sorry, Keith. Moral outrage by itself is just not a good basis for foreign policy.    Thinking is also sometimes useful.   You might try it sometime.

And if the Arab states around Syria are not willing to clearly stand with Obama in supporting an attack on Syria--without putting an impossible precondition on it-- that says a lot about their seriousness in dealing with this.

Further, it is still not established how you and other zealots will deal with the inevitable "collateral damage" from attacks on Syria.   

And by the way, let me congratulate you on the wonderful job you have done in convincing your fellow Britons that an attack on Syria is essential.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 11:32 AM

Wrong cut and paste at the start of that belongs in another thread.

Should read ""If only they had objected at the time that they actually did not care what methods of slaughter were used on Syrians, Obama would have known what to expect.""

DT

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 11:29 AM

""Unbelievable!!!!! Now we have part 2 of the pseudo intellectual ravings of Musket, shaw, stringdriver, don wizjet and seaman stayns, who are now joined by a few more posing nomarks.""

Would somebody please tell that truth twisting, lying ar**hole that being disinclined to start throwing bombs around is not the same as not caring about gassed men, women and children.

It's been done before, and it is always disastrous, usually for the very people you are trying to save.

Anyone with genuine concern for the victims of Assad's desire to hang on to power should be beating their political leaders over the head with the message that we want all of them to get together and make genuine diplomatic efforts.

TALK FIRST! Leave the bombs in storage.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 11:25 AM

Jim Carroll: "Not only have you ignored these attempts at peace, but you, Bruce, Boo-Boo and Guest from Sanitry, have refused even to respond to direct requests, you have refused even to acknowledge that there are peace talks taking place – not one of you sorry bunch AND YOU WILL CONTINUUE TO IGNORE THEM - THAT IS THE LEVEL OF YOUR CONCERN FOR THE ISRAELI PEOPLE"

Was there something in particular that you wanted me to answer or comment on from you??..If so what is it exactly?
Fair enough?
BTW, this time, just ask, without the tirade.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,keith A
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 10:36 AM

If only all those people and politicians now opposing any intervention had expressed that view back when Obama first announced that he regarded chemical weapons as a red line.

If only they had objected at the time that they actually did not care what methods of slaughter were used on Syrians, Obama would have known what to expect.

No-one on Mudcat came out and said it was not our concern whether gas, germs or radionucleides rained on innocent families, but now they are outraged that Obama assumed decent people would support him.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 09:05 AM

"I have not discussed Israel except to say it has no relevance to this thread.
You have posted pages about it.
Why?"
This is becoming intolerable - you are not responding to my statements - you are continuing to openly lie about my postings here.
You seem determined to wreck this thread as you have wrecked many others and have now reduced your role to just trolling on this forum - I refuse to be part of that deliberate vandalism
Your behaviour now is not unlike that of a very disturbed child
I hope the forum administrators will note your behaviour and take appropriate action
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 08:43 AM

I have not discussed Israel except to say it has no relevance to this thread.
You have posted pages about it.
Why?

Israel has been discussed interminably here but there has been very little discussion about the most serious issue of the time, the humanitarian catastrophe that is Syria.

Please Jim, get off your weary old hobby horse.

Have you any more to say about Syria?
Still advocating an invasion by Western troops, or will you be satisfied with a time limited missile offensive?

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 06:07 AM

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/06/russia-holding-cards-syria-crisis#start-of-comments

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 06:05 AM

And please respond to my comments on your apparent contempt for the Israeli, Jewish and British people.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 05:54 AM

"Israel is irrelevant to this thread."
Then ask why Bruce introduced it, ask yourself why you have discussed it , ask Boo-Boo why he has joined you (on second thoughts, don't bother, Boo-Boo appears not to be able to find his own arse with both hands)
I have at no time attempted to discuss Israel or its policies on this thread - if it concerns you so much, why have you?
PLEASE STOP ATTEMPTING TO DISHONESTLY IMPLICATE ME IN SOMETHING YOU, BOO-BOO AND BRAINLESS BRUCE HAVE DONE THROUGHOUT THIS THREAD - I HAVEN'T ATTEMPTED TO DISCUSS ISRAEL HERE - YOU ALL HAVE -AND I HAVE MADE THAT QUITE CLEAR IN EARLIER POSTS
Do you not have a shred of honesty left in you?
By the way - do you realise that "Jim dear," has become a sort of nervous tic every time you paint yourself into a corner.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 04:43 AM

Jim dear, Stringsinger actually implicated Israel in causing the war, and I challenged it saying Israel was blameless.
Remember?
You attacked me for making that statement and then went on to make all your usual attacks on Israel with all those tired old accusations you have posted so many times on so many threads.
Remember?
Israel is irrelevant to this thread.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 04:30 AM

This thread is nothing to do with Israel.
I have never at one time brought Israel into this discussion –the only time it has appeared in any of my postings is in a long cut 'n paste in reply to an Islamophobic rant by Bearded Bruce on the Muslim religion – all the mentions in my post were quotes from the Christian Bible – a comparison between the Christian and Muslim religions, not even they had anything to do with the state of Israel, but were 2,000 year old biblical references – to describe them as an attack on Israel is utterly grotesque, even by your standards – about as dishonest as you have sunk on this forum – have you even bothered to read that pasting? (27 Aug 13 - 08:49 AM)
You are not even adept at manipulating this thread, which appears to be the only thought you give to what you right.
"Stringsinger tried to implicate Israel"
Bearded Bruce introduced Israel into this thread – Stringsinger's first posting was in regard to possible attacks on Israel by Hezbollah and laterIsrael's passing on information about chemical attacks.
I have had no part in discussing Israel on this thread, just your apparently uncontrollable sycophancy whenever the name is mentioned
I have never at any time mentioned Israel in this thread other than to comment on your kneejerk defence of the Israeli regime – NOT THE ISRAELI PEOPLE – THE POLICY OF THE REGIME
I have stated my feelings about the Israeli people and of my feeling for the Jewish people as a whole, – which you have ignored, as I predicted you would.
I have stated my feelings on the attempts to arrive at some sort of peace settlement in the Middle East (not here) which you have ignored, as I predicted you would.
Not only have you ignored these attempts at peace, but you, Bruce, Boo-Boo and Guest from Sanitry, have refused even to respond to direct requests, you have refused even to acknowledge that there are peace talks taking place – not one of you sorry bunch AND YOU WILL CONTINUUE TO IGNORE THEM - THAT IS THE LEVEL OF YOUR CONCERN FOR THE ISRAELI PEOPLE
You show no concern for the Israeli people, only for the policies of their leaders.
You show no concern for the British people, only for the policies of their leaders.
You appear to identify Britain and Israel through their governments, not their ordinary people
You show no concern for any single group of human beings on this planet – only their leaders and their policies – you will not even comment on how those policies affect the people those leaders are supposed to represent.
You appear to be totally devoid of a single streak of humanity – what kind of an individual are you?
You have my opinions – you refuse to respond to what I write and you will continue to do so - I expect no more from you, that sums up perfectly what you are and how you (don't) think or feel.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 04:18 AM

Check out the George Galloway interview for a "different take" - than the American government's -on the situation.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 08 Sep 13 - 02:27 AM

Everyone in the world has an opinion, not just Israel.
The war is nothing to do with Israel or US.
Only the decision to intervene or not on sarin use in that war.
US has had the opinion of ALL the major leaders.

You might want this to be about Israel, but it is not.
Israel is an innocent bystander.
If you challenge that, tell us what they have done.
"Pulling strings" does not count.
US is not a puppet.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 06:51 PM

Don T: "YEAH! That'll solve all the world's problems.......NOT!"


Ever tried???

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: bobad
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 05:24 PM

Israel's preference is for Assad to remain in power whereas the US wants to hit him to deter and degrade his chemical weapon capability so why do you feel it is necessary to bring Israel into the argument? If anything they would be playing a tempering role.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 05:06 PM

For God's sake! You can't keep Israel out of the argument when they have so much sway in the States!
Yes, it's about chemical weapons AND about who did what!
And, you can bet your bottom dollar that Israel - and their friends in the States, are pulling lots of strings at the moment.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 04:32 PM

This thread is nothing to do with Israel.
Stringsinger tried to implicate Israel.
I just asked him how it was possible.

You have posted screens full of text about Israel with all the usual accusations you have posted so many times on so many threads.
Why Jim?
This thread is about chemical weapons in Syria.
You are an obsessed man!
You have a deranged, obsessional hatred for them, and just can not stop yourself.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 03:57 PM

I don't know if this has been flagged up before.

George Galloway's View

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 03:30 PM

"So, why did you try to turn this discussion about the crisis in Syria into yet another opportunity to attack Israel?"
I didn't - I responded to your continued mindless defence of Israeli behaviour - and you are well aware of that fact.
I did not turn it into an attack on Israel - I have no opinion on their role here - I commented on your slavering sycophancy towards ALL Israeli crimes.
The only time Israel has been mentioned other than in my responses to you, has been in my given examples of something else, of over which I have no control - nuffing to do with me guv -same as your sole defence of Israeli atrocities
I expect neither withdrawal, nor apology for this (once again) deliberate distortion of my position and will be surprised even if you bother to acknowledge it - why break the habit of a lifetime?
You have made it perfectly clear that you never consider yourself wrong, you hardly ever apologise, and you consider apologising as "grovelling" - note the quotation marks - you have described it as such on several occasions.
You have not commented on the fact that many Jews are appalled by Israeli regime behaviour - including Israelis.
You have never responded to the Mossad heads' statements directly, you have never acknowledged the links to Jews for Justice and critical comments by balanced journals like Haaretz - you out of hand dismissed the evidence of the Jewish nurse who witnessed Sabra/Shatila once you realised she hadn't said what you wanted her to say - other than to deny her claim of what she saw.
You and your crummy mates have never even acknowledged the peace talks, let alone explain the Israeli regimes behaviour which has already caused a breakdown in those despite the fact that ordinary Israeli citizens will be among the main casualties shuld those negotiations fail - It is Israeli men women and children as well as Palestinian who will end up in body-bags - not even worth a mention by you or yours - and you claim to be pro-Israeli - my arse you are; you have done no more than defend the Israeli regime's war crimes - you don't give a toss for the Israeli people
As far as I'm concerned.
Don't you dare call me or anybody Anti-Semite or Anti-Israeli you appalling little Jew-hater.
"Obsessive, irrational hatred is what it looks like."
You have ever said a truer word, and I doubt that you ever shall
Even your cut-'n-pastes in support of them show more than a flick-of-the-typing finger effort.
In the past you have been offered literature to read and dispute and you've dismissed it as "too long" and "tto boring" and you have described the postings that are any longer than a "Sun headline as the same
God - even the Israeli regime deserves a better defence than you have put up own their behalf - make an effort man!
Jim Carroll
All together now "Lies, lies, Lies etc"

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 03:27 PM

""Ya' want to be useful??..Get your shit together, and write music, that unifies mind, soul and Spirit, and one to another because of Love, not politics!!!!!!!""

YEAH! That'll solve all the world's problems.......NOT!

You're advocating fucking fiddling while Rome burns?

Sheesh!!
Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 03:08 PM

Kieth, you forgot the U.S. (and related backers)for orchestrating it.

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 01:47 PM

So, why did you try to turn this discussion about the crisis in Syria into yet another opportunity to attack Israel?
Not Russia who is arming the regime.
Not China who is arming the regime.
Not Iran and Hezbollah who are supplying fighters for the regime.
Not the Arab states who are arming the rebels.

Just Israel, who is just an innocent bystander.
And Britain, of course, by you Jim.

Obsessive, irrational hatred is what it looks like.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 01:27 PM

"The fact is that you and Stringsinger hate Israelis"
No we do not -= and this is a typical distortion of our position.
What we do hate is what the various Israel terrorist regimes have done to the people of |Israel - even admitted by previous heads of Mossad - they have disgraced the State of Israel and dragged its name into the slime.
You might add to that the braindeads who egg on those regimes from the safety of their keyboards
My family welcomed the setting up of the State following WW2, my grandmother was jailed for throwing a brick at a Blackshirt rally in Liverpool in the thirties, my father fought shoulder to shoulder with Jews in Spain and shared, first a hospital ward and then a prison yard with many of them.
To a man, all of those people I have met are ashamed of what has become of Israel - it was a Jewish girlfriend in Manchester who first told me that Israel has become a fascist state - I was appalled and nearly fell out with her over her statement.
I realise you believe these people to be Anti-Semite lefties and I very much doubt if you will even bother to acknowledge what they have to say – even though many of them belong to families of Holocaust survivors.
How dare you claim we hate Israel – we'd have to run a 1000mph and then catch a Bullet-train to even come within viewing distance of the damage you apologists have done to Israel.
Stringy and I couldn't possibly do the damage to the Israeli people that you and your kind have done to the Israeli people, and Jewish people as a whole also, by describing criticism of Istael's state terrorism as Anti-Semitic. .
You might elicit some admiration if you had put a little effort into your 'defence' of Israel, as it is, you confine your arguments to Dalek-like repetitions of "they didn't do it" knee-jerks. Even scumbags like David Irving put some sort of an skill and thought into his Anti-Semitic filth, your Anti-Semitic filth is totally thoughtless and effortless.
You are one of the most mindlessly reactionary rightists I have ever come across.
The massacre of 3,500 refugees facilitated by Israeli State thugs – "Arabs killing Arabs, nuffin to do with Israel.
The forcible moving of entire ethnic communities onto sites that are recognised officially recognised as being toxic – not poison, and the State doesn't have to cater for people who live differently anyway even though they've occupied the land they've been evicted from for millennia
Chemical weapons that have burned the faces off small children (proven to you with photographs) - harmless as fireworks and not against the law anyway
Over one hundred attempts to bring Israel to book for its war crimes – all vetoed by the U.S. and you would not even be able to produce one single occasion when you have agreed with any single criticism whatever, not one – usually denying it outright, but when you have no alternative, simply ignoring it.
The only thing that makes it worthwhile responding to your fanaticism in the slightest degree is it give us an opportunity to yet again expose yourselves for what you are –Zionist thugs, (if you had the bottle or nouse to actually put a little effort into what you claim to believe in) and even this has been made redundant by the fact that this year's efforts have done the job so well that our presence here no more than morbid curiosity - and it's only September.
I only remain to wonder if you will actually respond to this with anything resembling thought, or whether you'll just switch on your "it's all lies" loop – hope the bookies is still open!
You are the most extreme apologist of human rights abuses I have ever come across and certainly the least intelligent
I have not doubt that if the subject was the 'Sharpville' massacre you would claim "it was the blacks wot dun it"
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 01:03 PM

So those pesky Zionists secretly control the US government.
I suppose they control most world governments, and the banks and much else.
But then, how did the US government cause those poor helpless Arabs to start killing each other?

Please explain how anyone outside Syria stirred up the mostly Sunni people to rise against the regime.
(apart from the foreigners from Iran and Lebanon who went in to fight for the regime.)

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Stringsinger
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 11:05 AM

"The fact is that you and Stringsinger hate Israelis so much that you felt driven to attack them in a thread with no relevance to them, on an issue that has no connection with them."

This is a lie. I know many Israeli friends.   Not all of them support Netanyahu's authoritarian regime. I call your attention to two leading dissidents, one of them Israeli, Uri Avnery and the other a Jew, Norman Finkelstein who are critical of the Netanyahu regime.

Here's how the government of Israel is culpable. They have secret intelligence
agencies that stir up instability surreptitiously and tried to involve the U.S. by advocating the bombing of Iran but their dilemma is that they want the Assad
regime to remain in power to stabilize their boundaries with Syria. The conflict they have is that if they support the Rebels which some members of AIPAC have advocated, they will encourage the Sunni elements to emerge. The Syrian Civil War can be traced to 1967 borders where Israel had taken Syrian land in the Golan Heights and started to build settlements there in violation of UN mandates. As long as Assad remains in power, these boundaries will be frozen, they think. This is why Israel supports Assad and takes sides in the Syrian Civil War.

Iran has never said officially that they want to wipe Israel off the map. This is sheer paranoia and Zionist propaganda.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 10:43 AM

Suzy Sock Puppet: "If we don't want things to happen like what just happened in Syria, we have to stop producing, selling and supplying the shit."

Or having OUR people do what happened, whether it be an agency, or hired guns, to foment an 'unavoidable war'(?), while our elected representatives of the banksters convince you that any dissension 'just must be party politics'......and then we have to wade through the nonthinking, but very vocal parrots, spewing their hatred, while feeling so very useful!!....Ya' want to be useful??..Get your shit together, and write music, that unifies mind, soul and Spirit, and one to another because of Love, not politics!!!!!!!
..Besides, 'The voice of deception has uneven rhythms'..!


GfS

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 08:36 AM

In the short story, "The Blue Hotel," by Stephen Crane, it is stated that "Every sin is the result of collaboration."

I have to agree. If we don't want things to happen like what just happened in Syria, we have to stop producing, selling and supplying the shit. The profiteering must end.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,keith A
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 05:42 AM

Jim, if it was humanly possible to put any blame on Israelis, you would have had a go.
The fact is that even if Israel had already been wiped off the map, this war of Arab against Arab, Sunni against Shia, would still be going bloodily on.

The fact is that you and Stringsinger hate Israelis so much that you felt driven to attack them in a thread with no relevance to them, on an issue that has no connection with them.

Obsessive hatred is a feature of your troubled psyche Jim.
Report me for that too if you like.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 05:29 AM

"YOU tell us what Israel did to instigate any of this"
Us?
Sorry Keith, no interest in talking to someone who doesn't listen – and neither is anybody else from the number of responses to you – why should I have to look after the village idiot again. Have no intention of baby-minding our resident one any more – whee!!!
Just got a little bored with your boringly predictabe attempts to persuade us to shove our noses up Israel's terrorist arse along with your own and persuading us that their state terrorism is acceptable.
Anyway, I thought I might try my hand at a little of your stalking to see what it is about it that turns you on.
Have 'nother good day, d'you hear now
Jim Carroll
By the way, love the Keith A – arsehole I presume?

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 04:20 AM

Akenaton: ".....all the guys who mocked Little Hawk, Sanity, Songwronger, stringsinger and others, for suggesting that Mr Obama serves the same masters as Mr Bush."


NOTE the SAME players then and now!!!!!..from FIVE YEARS AGO!!!!


Subject: RE: BS: Observations of the Dem. Nat. Convention
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 31 Aug 08 - 05:25 AM

Jack, There are no blinkers.....Just because I don't believe Obama, doesn't mean I'm for McCain. So far, I'm still not impressed by either one....I think the blinkers need to come off those who are so one track minded, to actually believe in either of these two, with all the earnest that they do! Nor do I believe that either one of them, will 'uphold the constitution', that one of them will swear to. Both of them have agendas that further degrade our rights. If you can't see that, then perhaps YOU should take your blinders(not blinkers) off!!! Matter of fact, it's not that I don't see, what you see in them, look a little harder, and you can see THROUGH them!....Its all political posturing, and we are about to be dealt another blow, from both the right and the left.....and you think its from a separate boxer...its the same boxer, throwing us punches from the right, and the left, ducking and weaving. These two 'candidates' are 'front men' for the same thing..Look up Machiavellian Principle. We've been set up!..Jeezus Peezus, WE are the composers, poets musicians and writers, and yet some of you act as if you have no vision, no insight, and are just lemmings, following this crap, as gospel!..WAKE UP!

GfS

P.S....and look at all the crap some of us have taken since!!..."Sanity to Galactic Central...Sanity to Galactic Central, come in please......I've delivered your message to them, AHEAD OF TIME, as instructed.. and history has once again proved us right....it was a pain in the ass...is there anything else they should be told, that they won't ignore????"

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: akenaton
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 04:11 AM

I think we're pissing into the wind Suzy...most of the people here just want to score personal points when they think they have the ascendency; and keep their heads down when their ideology is proved to be wrong.

Political partisanship is very powerful and destructive....."liberalism" has nothing to do with absorbing ideas, listening to alternatives, even "toleration" of fact based arguments which contradict the on "message" ideology

"Liberalism" is in reality a form of "Fascism", a myth based philosophy which is deemed to be above normal debate.

"Some things are just the RIGHT thing to do".........how many times have we heard that from our politicians and our forum members? Usually from those whom we would trust the least. :0)

Foolishness and wilful ignorance are real dangers.

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,keith A
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 03:54 AM

OK Jim.
YOU tell us what Israel did to instigate any of this, because Stringsinger plainly can not.

What is their blame for Syria Jim Carroll?

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,Guest from Sanity
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 03:53 AM

Akenaton: "Just like to add, as we see "Iraq part2" start to unfold, what has happened to all the Obama supporters....."

They're in hiding....oh yeah, and "Liberalism is a philosophy of consolation for western civilization as it commits suicide."

GfS

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 02:42 AM

"Israel is blameless in this war."
Israel is blameless for everything Keith!!
You seem to have dedicated your life to defending their atrocities, supporting British policy of selecting the most extreme Governments of the world to sell weapons to, persuading the world that no action can be taking over the consequences of such weapons sales and slagging off anybody who disagrees with you.
Predictability seems to be your single strong point.
Wouldn't you be more fitted to taking up gardening while there's a few more weeks good weather left in the year?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: chemical weapons in Syria
From: GUEST,Suzy Sock Puppet
Date: 07 Sep 13 - 01:47 AM

Thanks for the laugh Bobad. gnu MAGNIFICENT speech!

I want to repost what I posted earlier in this thread. See how it fits with what's happening now? If there were no agenda for regime change. If that were the case, the Syrian rebels would be "unworthy victims":

From "Manufacturing Consent: The Political Economy of the Mass Media (Hermann & Chomsky, 1988):

"Propaganda campaigns can occur only when consistent with the interests of those controlling and managing the filters. For example, these managers all accepted the view that the Polish government's crackdown on the Solidarity union in 1980-81 was extremely newsworthy and deserved severe condemnation; whereas the same interests did not find the Turkish military government's equally brutal crackdown on trade unions in Turkey at about the same time to be newsworthy or reprehensible. In the latter case the U.S. government and business community liked the military government's anticommunist stance and open door economic policy; and the crackdown on Turkish unions had the merit of weakening the Left and keeping wages down. In the Polish case, propaganda points could be scored against a Soviet-supported government, and concern could be expressed for workers whose wages were not paid by Free World employers! The fit of this dichotomization to corporate interests and anticommunist ideology is obvious.

We used the concepts of "worthy" and "unworthy" victims to describe this dichotomization, with a trace of irony, as the differential treatment was clearly related to political and economic advantage rather than anything like actual worth. In fact, the Polish trade unionists quickly ceased to be worthy when communism was overthrown and the workers were struggling against a western-oriented neoliberal regime. The travails of Polish workers now, like those of Turkish workers, do not pass through the propaganda model filters. They are both unworthy victims at this point."

http://www.chomsky.info/onchomsky/199607--.htm

See how it fits?