Adele: A great American pop singer

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 11 Jan 22 - 06:38 PM

"Easy On Me" rules the radio airwaves at the moment,
and there is more to come,
although I don't know which of the new Adele songs
will be the next single.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: keberoxu
Date: 19 Dec 21 - 07:47 PM

I'm old enough to remember Dusty Springfield,
and there could have been a similar controversy over her work as well:
English, born and bred,
and spoke with her native English accent;
and when she sang, what she sang sounded as much American as English.
Another artist with a forceful and intense presence,
who was also vulnerable and sensitive.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Allan Conn
Date: 19 Dec 21 - 11:19 AM

I thought Amy was great. So is Adele though compared with earlier pop acts she isn't exactly prolific and I think she hasn't reached the heights of "21" again as far as an album goes.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,James Phillips
Date: 19 Dec 21 - 10:45 AM

The thing about this American pop style of singing. Whether it be soul, R&B, pop, country and western....there's a common thread in all of these styles. It is very heavy on the ornamentation - that tendency to turn every melody note into 6...doesn't matter whether the singer is black or white, a huge % of popular American singers sing in this style. And it has been argued that British singers "copy" this style.

Isn't it essentially the other way around? To my ears, the style of vocal ornamentation, the phrasing and the melodic shapes heard in American "soul" style singing originate from the Irish and Scottish forms of folk singing, particularly the female forms. I heard an old recording (1930's?) of a sean nos singer a while ago and some of the vocal inflections would not have been out of place on a Whitney Houston record. When you listen to Dick Gaughan (who was most likely influenced a lot by his mother, who was a Gaelic singer) sing tracks like "Jock O'Hazeldean" and "The Green Linnet" and "The Banks of Green Willow," it's clear that there is a strong link between Celtic and American vocal forms. And then you have the theories of the likes of music professor Willie Ruff, who is convinced of a line of influence between Scottish psalm singing and American gospel music.

Of course folk singers from folk cultures all over the world ornament their vocal styles. But just not quite in the same way. I've never heard a Greek folk singer and thought "you know, that kinda sounds a bit like American soul." But I hear this all the time in Irish and Scottish folk singers. The influence has run both ways too - the likes of Andy Irvine started singing behind the beat in the folk revival of the 70's, Dick Gaughan was influenced by Big Bill Broonzy. So they've both shaped each other a bit, but overall I firmly believe that America has the Celtic singing tradition to thank for the vocal style that falls under the umbrella of "American pop."

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: fat B****rd
Date: 16 Nov 21 - 05:19 PM

Didn't Richard Thompson perform "I Wanna Dance With Somebody" ?

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 16 Nov 21 - 01:45 PM

It's a funny thing with Richard Thompson. I love his songs but I dislike his voice. Three of my all-time cherished things are Ron Kavana singing Galway to Graceland, Tom McConville singing Beeswing and Four Men and a Dog singing Waltzing's for Dreamers...

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 16 Nov 21 - 10:48 AM

You can say you won't listen to some of those performers - then they surprise you. Heard out of context - without a name attached and in a place where you can just listen - and you can pick up on their voice, on the cleverness of words.

Go look for the Richard Thompson album 1000 years of popular music. He has a Britney Spears song on there. :)

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Jeri
Date: 16 Nov 21 - 09:00 AM

Lou: "...it no longer matters where you are"
It matters when you're using an actual radio. (Do they make clock-laptops?)

Funny thing about accents - I think it depends on where one hears music. I know someone who learned a lot of songs from British sources, and sings with a British accent. He doesn't really try. But it's impossible to know what people's motives are, most of the time.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Lou
Date: 16 Nov 21 - 08:33 AM

RE: NPR, Jeri. In this century it no longer matters where you are - all radio stations are online all the time! I listen to Austin's NPR station to hear ATC at 3 instead of 5PM, and classical music from Seattle's KING, and BBC from London, and jazz on Radio Sausalito here in my home county. I love that with a phone I can listen to anything wherever I go... including in the car!

Aside: Before the internet, I did not know NPR ever played any music or sports, as the main local station put local news on in the slots for sports and music, and did not play the music shows!

Radio may be dying as a terrestrial medium, but it is alive and well on the web!

But I have only heard a few songs by Adele as she is not in my musical wheelhouse, though I respect what I have heard. Britney or Taylor or Justin or Bruce, however, I cannot listen to.

Was it ever an issue that The Pentangle sang in American? When I first heard their live album I was surprised that they were English!

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 09:44 PM

I really intended to watch the concert, and was a bit mad at myself for forgetting about it. I hope it was recorded, but I don't think it probably was. Stilly, I'm also all over the map when it comes to listening. Also, I'm on NPR (I can get 4 of them, in 3 states here), and also, I'm fortunate enough to be able to get WUMB (they used to call themselves "folk music radio). Basically, it's the songs that matter, no matter the genre. I like words, but there's something that can be said about a good beat one can dance to. There isn't much I can't enjoy.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 08:43 PM

The upcoming program is Bennett's last concert, he has otherwise retired. It has probably already been recorded.

As to music listening habits, growing up I listened to top-forty and classical. Now I tend to listen to public radio programs (it's rather like a series of podcasts - the majority of it news and topical talk). The music is classical, blues, jazz, rock, and some of the specialized Sirius stations with 40s popular songs, "classic vinyl," dance music, etc. Who feels like listening to the same kind of music all of the time? I don't.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 05:59 PM

A few years ago I edited hundreds of, er, "pop" songs, ranging right across the decades, for our friend and local dance teacher. The odd Adele and Rihanna were in there, as well as a Monkee or two and American Pie (which I had to murder down into a three-minute version...) Well all that was a real eye-opener. I realised that the performance, arrangement and production standards of much pop music are very high, often incredibly impressive. I didn't buy any CDs as a result, but it gave me pause for thought about the dismissive attitude oft expressed about the genre (if that's the word...), for example by my late mum and dad..:-)

I listen mostly to classical music, but my car glovebox has Carly, Beatles, Kinks, Beach Boys, Dolly, Queen, Abba...

I'm not sure whether it's always the voice or the singing quality that makes pop songs good... Could be that, but I like the Pogues too...

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 04:54 PM

Water is wet. Rocks are hard. I (don't) like [X].

Metal awards (platinum, gold &c) require <1% market share. The sum total of consumer ignorance, apathy and dislike means all "popular" music is mathmatically +99% "unpopular" to you... and every other consumer.

Every year, around about this time, for most of my lifetime, consumers request dogs barking carols. Happy Hanukka.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 04:38 PM

Then don’t. But don’t insult others over something you admit you ‘don’t understand’, but which they might have been enjoying. I like to swap opinions about these things, it doesn’t make me a monster.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 04:25 PM

I'm not crazy about any of them, but I like Adele's music. Bennett is sort of fixture. Otherwise, we all have likes and dislikes, and I don't understand the need to debate any of it.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 03:33 PM

As I said…

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 03:31 PM

Well that post is definitely not in keeping with the cautious sentiment I've just expressed....disappointing, really... :-(

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 03:26 PM

As I’ve said several times, it’s down to personal taste and preferences. Knit your Dennis Healeys until you’re blue in the face, but that is the simple, indisputable fact. I have no problem with others liking AW and TB, and I fail to see why my lack of enthusiasm for them has to be such a problem for others. Unless, of course, they’re spoiling for a fight as usual. In which case they can Foxtrot Oscar.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 03:18 PM

Well I'll dip my toe into this thread with serious trepidation, first to say that the kind of music made by people such as Adele, Sinatra, Tony Bennett et al holds no interest for me ('ang on, I haven't finished...!), which is in no way meant to be judgemental. But I wished just to be the fool rushin' in to say that, while I would never buy her records, etc., I think that Amy Winehouse had an exceptionally rare and wonderful talent that seemed almost effortless when she was at her best (I know these things never are, art concealing art, etc.), and I wish that she'd lived a lot longer. Saying that she's overrated, even with the hasty addition of the usual caveats, has me seriously knitting my eyebrows, frankly...

Where's me coat...

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 02:29 PM

Still shit-stirring I see, Jeri.

What don’t you understand about “These things are a matter of personal taste…..but as I said, personal taste”? This was a place to discuss music the last time I checked. AFAIC, Maggie and I were civilly exchanging views about a couple of artists which are to her taste, but not to mine - our differing opinions aren’t a problem for me, perhaps you’d care to explain why that’s a problem for you?

Or is it just that I’m a Brit?

Judging by your post, you really are the last person who has any right to lecture others about ‘kindness’.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Jeri
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 01:44 PM

A. This thread was started with a snarky post.
B. Tony Bennet has (I believe) retired. He can still sing, but has Alzheimers

But, given the tone of the initial post, and Backwoodsman's recent ones, this is not a thread, or a group of people, to expect kindness from.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 01:39 PM

When TB was in his prime, beginning in the '50's, I'd put him right up alongside Ella Fitzgerald and Sinatra as an interpreter of "The Great American Songbook". He's a shadow of his former self as a singer but he still sounds good to me.
It would be interesting to hear Adele cover Gershwin, Cole Porter Rodgers and Hart etc.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 01:18 PM

Tim, did you read the OP?

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: RTim
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 12:55 PM

Adele Laurie Blue Adkins MBE is an English singer and songwriter.

ENGLISH!!!!

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 12:24 PM

These things are a matter of personal taste, SRS. Bennett doesn’t do it for me, nor Amy Winehouse - both vastly over-rated AFAIC. But as I said…personal taste.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 12:13 PM

Tony Bennett is a national treasure. And another of his great concerts was with the late great Amy Winehouse. She had a large following, but he brought her to the attention of a lot more people.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 12:04 PM

Lady GG is another great singer, loved everything she's done. Never been convinced about Tony Bennett and, judging by the album he and LGG put out, he's well past his sell-by date. Time to retire gracefully, methinks.

The standard disclaimers apply here - IMHO, YMMV, IOSTBTBDO, yadda yadda. ;-)

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 11:43 AM

Good to know. A friend DVR'ed it so I'll be able to watch it in it's entirety soon.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 11:18 AM

gillymor - the first half was with a piano accompaniment, as the evening progressed a small ensemble of musicians added (I don't know that you would call them an orchestra, and they weren't a band), and then some backup singers. Everything was elegant, it was a beautiful outdoor setting and is an example of how people made the best of COVID-19 restrictions.

In two weeks CBS will have a concert with Lady Gaga and Tony Bennett. The network seems to have struck musical gold this year.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 10:11 AM

The Guardian today:

What we learned from Adele's TV special

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Backwoodsman
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 07:47 AM

”During the brief part of the show that I saw it seems like every word was deeply felt and sung with commitment. She has such an enormous voice but actually seeing her perform the songs adds a whole new dimension.”

Almost certainly because she writes from her own life-experiences, her broken relationships, her own self-doubt, etc., etc.

And that lass can sing, no doubt about it - she ‘emotes’ in a believably-genuine, convincing manner.

The usual disclaimers apply......IMHO, YMMV etc.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Richard
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 07:25 AM

Just looked at the youtube Albert Hall video. Bloody 'ell. She's good, isn't she.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 15 Nov 21 - 07:08 AM

I was watching the NFL game but looking at her show during the ads and, yeah, she was singing some pretty sad stuff and I didn't look in later so I guess I missed the happier stuff. However, I was impressed by her singing and stage presence. She didn't need a posse of dancers twerking behind her (at least not during the bits I saw) and while she didn't move much she used simple elegant arm and hand gestures and soulful facial expressions to help put the song over, reminiscent of Judy Garland but with perhaps a bit more subtlety. During the brief part of the show that I saw it seems like every word was deeply felt and sung with commitment. She has such an enormous voice but actually seeing her perform the songs adds a whole new dimension.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Nov 21 - 10:34 PM

Adele is on American television for a concert and inter-leaved with snippets of a conversation with Oprah.

The first half was incredibly depressing - I was wondering if my occasional-therapist has an appointment this week, it was that intense with the songs. Thank goodness she lightened up and did a few standards and more uplifting ballads as the evening progressed.

She sounds good, looks good, and seems to be happy. This is as much as anyone can ask for.

Adele opens up to Oprah about divorce and being a single parent

She did have a very safe audience - a lot of friends in the music and entertainment world, all familiar faces, seated out-of-doors and spaced well for the current COVID-19 conditions.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Phil d'Conch
Date: 04 Jul 17 - 04:21 AM

Hope the lady gets well soon.

Popular entertainment is not musicology or anthropology. It's four function math. Count the audience legs and divide by two.

Adele has taken home something like 15:18 Grammy nominations against similarly marketed & packaged & talented dentist office Muzakettes. Pretty good average for her league.

When I hear pro sound engineers in American pop say 'natural' & 'authentic' I reference the absence of vocal processing like Auto-Tune &c. The accents never really come up in conversation. Scots excepted of course.

YT: Scottish accents v. Yankee Tech

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Allan Conn
Date: 04 Jul 17 - 03:15 AM

I'll maybe need to duck here but to me I don't think Adele sounds like she is particularly aping an American accent. Not in the obvious way that Lonnie Donegan and Mick Jagger would sound anyway. Yes her singing voice is different from her speaking voice but I'd say it is more of a kind of non-accent rather than a specific American accent. Would some call it mid-Atlantic? I'd question whether she is putting anything on too. If I am singing a specific Scottish folk song then I obviously sound Scottish when singing but other than that I'd say I sound kind of neutral. For me to sing say a Beatles or an Eagles song in a Scottish accent I'd probably need to concentrate to specifically do that. It wouldn't be my natural singing voice for those songs. Whatever your accent is like in singing someone is going to object anyway. For their first TV appearance the Proclaimers were announced by Paula Yates as being "really weird" when the only thing different about them was they sung exactly the same as they spoke in every song. I do try and have some fun sometimes in changing songs in to something like my Borders dialect - as far as the rhyming will allow anyway. So it is much nearer to how I speak (apart from the odd word or two) but it is a much less natural singing voice - for me anyway.   https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gAZvus5Hh1o

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 04 Jul 17 - 02:20 AM

Yes! But great artists have such a strong idenity centre that they always sound like themselves.
Can you imagine Muddy Waters, or Hank Williams or Frank Sinatra singing an Irish folk song with an Irish accent ...or even a trace of one.
"To thine own self be true"
Well. Adele is definitely hiding her " own self" when she sings.
Again, and rather bizarrely, that seems to be fine with most listeners

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Bat Goddess
Date: 03 Jul 17 - 07:23 PM

Why are we arguing about whether she's a good singer or not?

I'm not certain if I've ever actually heard her sing as I don't listen to pop music at all. (As a bluegrass musician friend once said, "The field of unpopular music is wide open.") And my taste doesn't, in general, run towards singer/songwriters.

But from what I've heard, she has a wonderful voice. And she needs to take care of it if she is to continue touring or recording.

I would imagine she's still being treated by the celebrated laryngeal surgeon Dr. Steven Zeitels, who helped her through the crisis with the vocal cord polyp that hemorrhaged a few years ago. He's treated a number of celebrities -- including Mudcat celebrities Tom Hall (Curmudgeon) and Kendall Morse (Kendall). If anyone can help PRESERVE Adele's voice, it will be Dr. Z. He truly understands how important voice and vocal quality is, not to just singers (although someone once said his waiting room is like the green room at the Met), but to anyone who uses their voice -- teachers, sales people, writers, the clergy...indeed, ANYONE. Without a voice, one's life changes dramatically. And for a singer, it's devastating.

One can't sing their way through a vocal cord crisis. Talking can permanently damage the voice. She needs to rest her instrument (and receive therapy) or she could lose her singing voice completely.

So what's the problem here? From what I gather, she has a beautiful powerful voice, enunciates well, chooses interesting and complex material. Why are we debating the value of differing genres of music? It's all a matter of personal taste.

As far as accents go, back when Curmudgeon was performing at The White Horse Pub at the Nereledge Inn in North Conway, New Hampshire back in the '80s, we became friendly with Paul Ross, English rock climber, who was at that time living in the area and hanging out at the pub. Tom's singing confused Paul -- he said Tom sounded like a Brit, but he couldn't quite put his finger on the exact accent. That was because Tom had learned the songs (of the British Folk Revival) from recordings of English and Scots singers -- who came from different parts of the island. Part of it, I'm sure, was intentional -- to sing like a singer he admired. And part is surely UNintentional, just a part of learning a song from a recording.

Linn

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Curious
Date: 03 Jul 17 - 07:17 PM

Was attracted eventually by the thread title.

Second posting comments on the difference between her singing voice and her natural accent.

Nothing new about that - have a listen to Vera Lynn.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 03 Jul 17 - 12:27 AM

Poor edit

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,pauperback
Date: 03 Jul 17 - 12:25 AM

Jeri

The internet ripple effect
put it out a like a prayer

Ken

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,keberoxu
Date: 02 Jul 17 - 07:48 PM

It was intended that way in the first place? I missed that, sorry.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Jeri
Date: 02 Jul 17 - 05:37 PM

A four-year-old thread that was intended to be snotty in the first place, THEN has been revived by our refreshatrix to give advice that might be completely off the mark to someone she doesn't know, who isn't reading this.

Why?

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST
Date: 02 Jul 17 - 05:19 PM

It would indeed be fun to have Adele as Mary Poppins, Mr Happy.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: michaelr
Date: 02 Jul 17 - 05:03 PM

Adele's singing has great power and projection (what I have called a "foghorn" quality). It would be a shame if that has caused damage to her voice.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: keberoxu
Date: 02 Jul 17 - 04:35 PM

Sadly, a few years on from surgery to remove nodes (benign) from her vocal cords, Adele has had to cancel the rest of her tour dates.
Her online message to her fans is very long and emotional, and she explains that it's about damage to her voice.
Again.

I want to say this as lovingly and caringly as possible:
Sweetheart,
get to that surgeon,
and this time do whatever he told you to do last time
that you thought you could get away with not doing.
Don't tell me he didn't have advice.

No, I don't know what doctor Zee told Adele.
But in her sound, along with that emotional openness,
there is just enough strain and tension to make me worry for her.

If she doesn't wise up, her voice will die before she does.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Mr Happy
Date: 10 Sep 13 - 04:28 AM

English accent is appalling!! & more!

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 03:04 PM

Bonzo3legs said: "However, her English accent is appalling"

Well, that is a matter of opinion!
I bet there are, for example, millions of Londoners who would disagree!

Also, I'm guessing that you are from the UK.

Most Americans, I would guess, would not find her speaking voice appalling.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: Bonzo3legs
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 02:43 PM

Marje has hit the nail on the head - she just stands there and sings, and sings very well indeed. However, her English accent is appalling.

Subject: RE: Adele: A great American pop singer
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 09 Sep 13 - 02:31 PM

Haha Marje; "display her knickers or her knockers"
Good sensible post by the way. It's to easy to get sidetracked by minor piffles!