Traditional Music: Where are we going wrong?

Subject: RE: Where are we going wrong?
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 08:22 PM

Not an opinion - just a suggested point of discussion:

Maybe the old stuff is more popular in Ireland because Ireland has no new stuff that's very interesting to anyone there. (?)

It's much more difficult to teach people to really like the old traditions when there are many new fads close at hand. Perhaps others are just more "connected" to other distractions that aren't known/interesting to a more "closed" Irish culture?

John

Subject: RE: Where are we going wrong?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 03:44 PM

Bill D

I agree completely - much (not all) of such Irish music as is aimed at tourists (and at not a few others who should know better!) is too fast, too loud and lacks any subtlety. The point is that in Ireland (and in other countries where there are enough players who know different) there is another, quite different scene within which the music operates. The "tourist" form (and, tangentially, the extreme virtuoso form of some artistes) is not the core product - and some of those who experience it DO manage to find their way through the bubbles... So, in a way, we're back to GUESTRev Bayes' dictum - Teach the kids, teach the kids, teach the kids.

Regards

Subject: RE: Where are we going wrong?
From: Q (Frank Staplin)
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 03:31 PM

Could it be that music has moved on, the under-40s are busy with their new devices and couldn't care less? (text me and forget it).

Subject: RE: Where are we going wrong?
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 03:06 PM

"There are plenty of English and Scottish tunes that are 'fast, exciting and loud', ..."

yes, of course... but it is a matter of perception. Irish...(well, at least over here)... makes a point of it. I have been to *sessions* where no one sings and you are simply lost if you can't keep up.
Sorry Martin, but in many faux (or even real) Irish bars, fast & loud and clapping are the point. The band may play something slower for a change of pace... just to relax a bit and let the waiters hear to take more drink orders.

In my 35 years in the folk community of Greater Wash DC, it was MUCH harder to find Irish songs and slow airs than the hard, driving jigs & reels...etc. The bands, on their part, know what sells to certain crowds. They may know all sorts, but I guess one just has to know where to go to hear them bother with airs & songs.
(We used to have a big Irish festival where one could, with care, choose to NOT hear just the fast & loud, but I'm not sure it still runs.)

Subject: RE: Where are we going wrong?
From: Banjo-Flower
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 03:06 PM

I can't think of an equivalent English folk type of show. ('Morrisdance'?!)

Try Lock in

gerry

Subject: RE: Where are we going wrong?
From: GUEST,Eliza
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 02:37 PM

Do you think Riverdance has something to do with it? It certainly made Irish dance and song known worldwide. I can't think of an equivalent English folk type of show. ('Morrisdance'?!)

Subject: RE: Where are we going wrong?
From: GUEST,Rev Bayes
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 01:23 PM

Teach the kids. Teach the kids. Teach the kids.

Do what they do at Raploch, with concertinas.

But you have to teach them before they hit puberty. Once you do that, you're done.

So teach the kids. Teach the kids. Teach the kids.

Subject: RE: Where are we going wrong?
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 01:04 PM

I `ad that Pat O`Donovan in my cab the other day. `e `ad a ginormous silver cup in `is arms and was polishing it with the back of `is shamrock coloured shirt.
`e said, "To be sure Jimmy boy, will you be taking me up to the Kilburn High road? We`ll be celebrating our victory tonight, I tell you".
I said, "What victory is that Pat? Rugby, shinti, `ockey, Gaelic football or what?".
`e said , "Not at all. It`s the Irish Music Championship. We played more notes in more keys, faster than any of the other bands. They told us it was a world record!!"


Whaddam I Like??

Subject: RE: Where are we going wrong?
From: Dave the Gnome
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 12:47 PM

I don't believe that, Bill. We had the discussion on here not too many weeks back about all folk being classed as Irish by the unknowing. There are plenty of English and Scottish tunes that are 'fast, exciting and loud', if that is what people really want. Trouble is then then assume it is Irish! I, for one, have never been a fan of Irish music for the very reasons you say people like it and I am sure I am not that unusual!

Cheers

DtG

Subject: RE: Where are we going wrong?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 12:27 PM

Yes, Martin that and 'loud and fast?'

Subject: RE: Where are we going wrong?
From: MartinRyan
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 12:17 PM

"clap along"? Aaaaaaaaaargh!

Regards

Subject: RE: Where are we going wrong?
From: Bill D
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 12:10 PM

Simple... a lot of Irish music is fast, exciting and loud, and appeals (for listening especially) to folks who are not necessarily aware of its history. It also features 'tunes' to dance and clap to more often.

At the Smithsonian Folk Festival in Washington, D.C. for a number of years after highlighting Ireland and Lousiana, they tried each year to plan themes which would justify having either Irish or Cajun music... sometimes both! They would take food, workers, crafts, ...whatever... and sneak some degree of Cajun or Irish into it because it always drew crowds of folks who liked to dance and clap along.

*I* happen to like English & Scottish traditional music better, but it takes more ... ummm... 'awareness' to get the words and significance. I am lucky to live in a area where we DO have a decent selection of all sorts... but even here, Irish pubs get the big crowds.

Subject: RE: Where are we going wrong?
From: GUEST,Big Al Whittle
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 11:48 AM

I agree. We should start at heathrow.

The customs men should be dressed as pearly kings and queens and greet everyone newly arrived to a chheery 'WOTHCHER COCK!'

And maybe a few choruses of Knocked 'em in Old Kent Road.

That would cheer things up.

Subject: RE: Where are we going wrong?
From: GUEST,Peter Laban
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 11:36 AM

I am not sure you should take the Irish tourist industry appropriating music as a commodity to be sold as a sign of the health of traditional music.

If you look however at the number of young people enthusiastically taking up and playing traditional music and using it in a social context, then you're probably looking at a better indicator. Which will indeed show you things are looking healthy enough for another while yet.

Subject: RE: Where are we going wrong?
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 11:32 AM

For what you are about to receive, may the Lord make you truly thankful...

Subject: Where are we going wrong?
From: SPB-Cooperator
Date: 30 Sep 13 - 11:23 AM

Hopefully this isn't too controversial a question.

Having just got back from a holiday in Ireland, I couldn't help but notice that traditional Irish music is heavily promoted by the tourist industry - and it can be heard in gift shops, extensively in pubs, particularly in Dublin and Galway, and on street corners.

Back in London - traditional music is largely ignored, and if a visitor wants to hear traditional music in London he/she has to go to great lengths to find it.

Why, particularly in London, do we make our traditions so hard to find? Is it because the 'public' do not like to listen to English folk music as opposed to Irish? Are English singers so bad??

When I was in the Shanty Crew we could hold the attention of a large number of visitors to St Katherines Dock (yonks ago), and when we sang each month on the Cutty Sark, visitors would stop and listen - we once had a party of French schoolkids sitting on the hatch cover listening to an entire set - and joining in.