Too many adverts; not enough discussion

Subject: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 11:04 AM

I'm feeling that mudcat is becoming a palce to advertise commercial events rather than have discussions of interest.
OK - some events are of interest - a one off perhaps- but most people know the local folk club and follow their favourite performers in other ways.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Willie-O
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 11:08 AM

What makes you so sure of this?

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST,John Foxen
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 11:55 AM

Calling a folk club a commercial event seems a bit of a contradiction in terms. Organisers who take a salary for running one must be few and far between. Most of us often end up dipping into our own pockets to keep them going.
And while local people may follow their local club newcomers to the area might want to find out what's going on where.
For example, did you know, FloraG, that my club HaverFolk is hosting the wonderful Vicki Swan and Jonny Dyer on Wednesday November 27?
I hope you find that interesting

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST,Stim
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 12:38 PM

Some of us wouldn't know anything about what was going on in the folk music world if it wasn't for what's posted here, FloraG. I couldn't even begin to make a list of all the wonderful folk artists that I've learned about because someone took the trouble to mention that they were playing somewhere, or that they'd released a new album, or that there was a clip of them on YouTube.

And of course, these postings often remind me that artists that I like are still out there and making music, even when they are, say, in Alaska, which is ten thousand miles away, and which wouldn't hear about otherwise. I suspect that it helpful for those who schedule their local clubs to know who is out and performing, as well.

As to the part about having more discussion, all you have to do is start a thread..,oh, wait, you did;-)

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 01:08 PM

I find the information here about who is folking what where most useful. I'd like to see more collated info about what is on where, by region, not least in that I keep thinking about going to Haverfolk but I never know when the sinarounds (which is what I'd like to go for) are on.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Vic Smith
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 01:38 PM

Richard Bridge wrote:-
"the sinarounds (which is what I'd like to go for)"

Would Richard like to tell us which particular sins he would like to indulge in, in his friendly circle, bearing in mind, that this is a public forum and minors may be taking a peek.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST,John Foxen
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 02:06 PM

We were planning singarounds at HaverFolk for the next three Wednesdays (November 6, 13 and 20) but Richard's suggestion sounds much more interesting.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Phil Edwards
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 02:16 PM

Don't know what you're on about - can't see the appeal myself. I mean, you don't tend to get much Avarice among folkies, or Wrath (although there was that time when a fight broke out in the corridor...). Pride and Envy are far from unknown, it's true, as is Sloth - and I've been guilty of Gluttony myself (there's just something about sandwiches cut into triangles). I think that's the full list, unless there's one that's slipped my mind...

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: alex s
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 02:40 PM

Referring to me, GuestFloraG?
I "advertise" (ie inform) here because I can reach people who may not check our website regularly or indeed at all. It would be a shame for them to miss someone they'd like to see and I can't afford to advertise in newspapers as we are a non-profitmaking club.
I expect the same goes for many other organisers too.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST,Brian Peters
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 03:02 PM

Yep, bring on more slanging matches!

I would think that the 'Events Grapevine' role of Mudcat brings more people to, say, the ballad discussions.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: WindhoverWeaver
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 03:03 PM

You missed one, Phil: Lust.

Of course there is always plenty of that at folk clubs, though mostly in the songs, I'm afraid (or am I missing something????).

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Steve Gardham
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 05:32 PM

A free-for-all forum like this is open to all and sundry so the odd advert is bound to turn up. I occasionally use the forum for this myself and often an advert can turn into a discussion. Many thread titles either have prefixes or are obvious as to content so you can avoid the ones you don't want. I also enjoy the discussions I feel I can contribute to but I wouldn't want to burden a Mudelf with the task of sifting out all the ads. You can only have as many discussion threads as people want to put on! If there were more discussion threads the ads would soon fall off the end.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 08:35 PM

All the important topics (what is folk music? what did Ewan MacColl do during the war? who put the bop in the bop-shebop-shebop?) have already been discussed to death, so we are reduced to reading each others' advertisements.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 02 Nov 13 - 08:56 PM

I would have thought that the frequent displays of GAS here were a suffient overt display of LUST to suggest that it's amply displayed. If that's the case, we seem to cover all the bases(?).

John

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 12:18 AM

In general, I appreciate the gig announcements. I've learned a lot about performers and venues in the process of reading them. We have PermaThreads* for performers and venues that post often - but they don't always get used. I do find it tedious where there are three or more threads advertising the same performance, or when people go overboard in self-promotion.
I wonder if some people don't understand that they can bring an older thread back to life by retrieving it with the Filter on our Forum Menu, and then simply posting a message with the word "refresh" in the text box if they have nothing new to say.
Our threads are active on the Forum Menu for 24 hours after the most recent post - but they can always be refreshed for additional 24-hour periods.

-Joe Offer, Mudcat Archivist-

*If you need an edited PermaThread for recurring announcements or special projects, contact me by personal message or [e-mail]

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 05:06 AM

Thank you John Foxen

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Will Fly
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 05:18 AM

I like the Shameless Promotion and similar threads on Mudcat - nice to get a bit of an oversight of who and what's going on - even if it may be a partial view.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: alex s
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 06:22 AM

Right on, Will

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 07:19 AM

I would have thought that the "Who`s Performing Where" thread is the obvious place to inform readers of events and venues leaving the rest for search, music info, discussion, etc.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 07:47 AM

Snap-shot: 25% of postings 'who's/what's on'. Is that too many????? Suppose it depends what you're looking for.

Rog

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: artbrooks
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 07:53 AM

To me, "concert in Paulsbo on November 15th" is more useful than sifting through a long Permathread called "Who's Performing Where".

BTW, has anyone heard from the OP, or is this another 'start a fight' troll thread?

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 08:49 AM

FloraG is known, at least in parts of South-East England, and a reasonably frequent guest.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 02:26 PM

Does this thread belong below the line?

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 03:16 PM

Since following Mudcat it semed to me that the number of adverts had increased - and some with very long time perspectives. My concern was that if this trend continues that might be all this discussion forum becomes.
FloraG

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Joe Offer
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 03:46 PM

The "What's On (Who's Performing Where)" Permathread was a good idea, but it proved to be a lot of work to maintain it. I've tried to find volunteers to keep it going, but all of the volunteers lost heart within short order. I clean out old messages from the thread every now and then, but I would rather spend my time on song research.

The PermaThreads for individual performers and venues seem to work best, as long as there's somebody to maintain them. One problem with PermaThreads, is that the editors don't have the ability to alter the thread title to fit the upcoming event.

-Joe-


ChanteyLass, this thread could go below the line, but threads discussing ideas for changes at Mudcat, usually go up top. It's discussing adverts for music events, after all.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 03:49 PM

if this trend continues that might be all this discussion forum becomes

And?

I don't believe that you have any stake in this place any more than I do. It becomes what it becomes. Shut up

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Charmion
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 03:50 PM

This is the Internet, not a corkboard outside the village hall, so there's room for the adverts as well as any God's quantity of discussion threads.

If you would like to see more discussions, Flora, you're free to start some whenever you'd like.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 03:54 PM

The presence of one thing doesn't mean other things can't exist here. I like that people post about events in their area. Festivals, concerts, singarounds, recordings and people coming together because of those things is a big reason Mudcat is here. I have to skip over the UK events because it's not likely I'll get to any, but I think it's great they're publicized here.
If you have ideas you'd like to see discussed here, please start threads. Forcing ANYTHING doesn't make for a good environment.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Mo the caller
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 03:56 PM

Nameless guests are not allowed to tell named guests/members to shut up.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 06:37 PM

Nameless guests are not allowed to tell named guests/members to shut up.

I think that you'll find that they are...

And since when did you become a Mudcat moderator?

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Elmore
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 08:57 PM

For those of you who like throat singing from Tuva, don't miss Alash at Club Passim in Cambridge, Ma. Wed, Nov 6. If you live someplace else you can see them live online via Concert Window for 5 bucks, or check their website for other concerts.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: wysiwyg
Date: 03 Nov 13 - 09:10 PM

GUEST,FloraG, why just drop a criticism instead of starting or contributing to the kind of discussions you wish Mudcat was having?

~Susan

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Acorn4
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 03:16 AM

I've never found this a problem on Mudcat, in total contrast to Myspace which was effectively killed off by adverts and hype.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 04:31 AM

Acorn4 - it may not be a problem at the moment - but I thought it was an increasing trend - so thanks for the example of what could happen.
Wysiwyg - its more of a concern than a criticism.
Elmore - throat singing is great - but on the same night I'm involved with an anti capitalist do at Cambridge England. You might know of the USA lady who is the main guest.
Mo - thanks for the comment. Supportive and helpful as usual. I think it is important that we individually and collectively complain about any deviance of behavoiur from what we would expect face to face. I don't think you just have to ' put up with it because its the internet'.
Joe - my understanding of how the site is constructed may mean its not possible to do but is it worth considering having a section of the top for whats on that does not roll down but dies after 7 days?
FloraG

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 05:07 AM

Too many adverts; not enough discussion

Does this count as a 'discussion' & help to redress the balance?
Or is it merely a 'bitching' session?

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 05:51 AM

Sorry, cross-posted.

Now we have a constructive suggestion.
What about a couple of new thread 'prefixes'?
"What's On?" (a general category)
"What's On - UK"
"What's On - US" (possibly too broad a category as US is much bigger than UK)

This may then help people 'filter' what they're reading.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 05:57 AM

I'd really like to think Elmore was being ironic when they posted the throat-singing concert advert into this thread rather than starting one of their own ...

As regards the main theme I can't say as I'd even noticed that there was a growing preponderance of adverts over discussion threads, it all looks like Mudcat as usual to me (in both the good and bad senses of 'Mudcat as usual'). Blocking all posts from un-logged-in GUESTs would go a long way to fixing a bunch of the bad stuff as ably illustrated by 03 Nov 13 - 03:49 PM: Mudcat has a long tradition of tolerating pseudonyms for those who wish to hide their true identity.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Mr Happy
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 08:14 AM

IMO, for any forum to have worthwhile/interesting/stimulating etc content, it's necessary for OP's to initiate such topics - simples!

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: Elmore
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 10:49 AM

SteveMansfield: Maybe I was being semi-ironic. Still love that throat singing.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST,John Foxen
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 11:00 AM

FloraG, I appreciate your concern but gig announcements are very useful. In your last post it would have been more helpful if instead of saying "but on the same night I'm involved with an anti capitalist do at Cambridge England. You might know of the USA lady who is the main guest" you had said: "On Wednesday 6 Nov I'll be at Cambridge folk club for The Anti-Capitalist Roadshow: Frankie Armstrong, Reem Kelani, Grace Petrie, Leon Rosselson, Ian Saville and Peggy Seeger." Then those of us who weren't in the loop would have thought: "That sounds good- I'll try that."
I'd be tempted to trek up to Cambridge myself but I'll be running special night at HzverFolk for Richard Bridge: a sinaround kicking off with Sid Kipper's fine song on the Seven Deadly Sins.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST,Jim Knowledge
Date: 04 Nov 13 - 11:42 AM

I `ad that FloraG in my cab last night. She was going shopping at Tescos for some clobber to wear to a do in Cambridge during the week.
I said, "Morning Flo. What`s this event you`re going to then?"
She said, "It`s a special one, Jim. It`s the Anti-Capitalist Roadshow at the Cambridge Folk Club. There`s loads of singers there, even some come in by airline from the U.S. We`ll let all them greedy sods know we can do without `em."
I said, "That sounds like quite a night Flo. You gonna stand on your principles and go by Shanksy`s Pony, then?".
She said, "Oh no, Jim. That Richard Branson runs a smashing coach service. It only costs £8.50 return from Victoria!!"


Whaddam I Like??

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 04:08 AM

I hesitated about advertising an anti capitalist do on a web site ( Most people have to pay for their link.).
Taxi jim - why walk when I can use my bus pass. A and B getting C to pay for D. I'm now a D. I sit at home ( in vain )waiting for my harvest festival parcel to arrive.
FloraG.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST,John Foxen
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 05:19 AM

It is a thorny problem, FloraG. Indeed should an anti-capitalist show charge an entrance fee? The answer is yes. The artists have to eat and have to travel to the show. But if Mudcat exists to disseminate information then news about concerts, clubs etc is a vital part of it. I notice that I have been shamelessly plugging my club
HaverFolk on this thread so I have donated £5 (not much but we are a small club) to the Mudcat Fund. If everyone who used Mudcat for promotion coughed up a couple of quid -- or dollars -- every time, it might ease Max's situation.

Subject: RE: Too many adverts; not enough discussion
From: GUEST,FloraG
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 03:24 AM

Good idea John - nice one.
FloraG