BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY

Subject: BS: UK: Gagging Law in Hs of Lords TODAY
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 10:32 AM

Passing along info received from 38 Degrees:

Urgent: today, the House of Lords votes on whether to put the brakes on the government's plans to silence criticism in the year before an election. [1]

The ministers behind it, Andrew Lansley MP and Lord Wallace, want the Lords to think all the problems with the law are fixed. But they aren't. Legal advice and an expert civil society commission say the gagging law urgently needs to be changed: so let's trumpet that call loud and clear. [2]

If hundreds of thousands of us sign a petition telling the government to fix or scrap the gagging law, Lords will walk into today's vote - and every vote after that - with a worried eye on the climbing numbers. At a glance, the strength of feeling will be clear.

Please tell Lord Wallace and Andrew Lansley to fix the gagging law or, failing that, scrap it. Click here to sign the petition now:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/scrap-the-gagging-law

The last three months of campaigning - adverts, leaflets, tetchy public meetings - have turned up the heat. There are whispers that the government's commitment to the law is wobbling. But they're hanging on and hoping they can rush the law through before the public outcry becomes impossible to ignore.

We may not elect the Lords, but they're not immune to what ordinary people think. And right now, we need to make the outcry so big they can't see past it.

Let's show them that it's not just charity head offices who care about this law - ordinary people all across the country also want to protect their freedom of speech.

How do we do this? The old-fashioned way: by weight of numbers.

And at 38 Degrees, we have numbers: there are nearly 2 million of us. If we make this petition big enough, we'll be impossible to ignore.

Fix or scrap the gagging law: add your name to the petition today:
https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/scrap-the-gagging-law

NOTES
[1] Parliament website, Bill timetable: http://services.parliament.uk/bills/2013-14/transparencyoflobbyingnonpartycampaigningandtradeunionadministration.html
[2] Commission on Civil Society and Democratic Engagement: 'Non-party Campaigning Ahead of Elections': http://civilsocietycommission.info/wp-content/uploads/2013/10/civil-society-commission-report-WEB.pdf

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: gnu
Date: 05 Nov 13 - 12:25 PM

We have a gag vote in Parliament in Canada today. "On Tuesday, the Access to Information, Privacy and Ethics committee will be
the final committee to vote on the PMO directed motion to strip individual MPs of their rights to present amendments at the report stage of bills. All of the other committees have passed this motion but we want to take one last stand and show this committee that Canadians care about the rights of individual MPs."

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: Nigel Parsons
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 06:50 AM

Okay, I know it was November 5th, but why did I read that title as: "Gassing the House of Lords Today"?

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 12:02 PM

I was completely astounded that some politicians seem devoid of the capacity to think this through rationally.

I have signed petitions against Section 2 at every stage of this bill, and hounded my MP, who fortunately got the point and is one of those refusing to toe the party line.

I have been belabouring the point that they will be gagging, not only their opponents, but also their loyal (if sometimes critical) supporters, for a whole year culminating in an election which will be the first event after the gagging ends.

I asked my MP to hazard a guess as to where my vote might go at that point, as did many other of her constituents at local surgeries and a meeting specifically sounding out reactions to the Bill.

At the last stage before the Lords, we were short by 16 votes, so it's worth having a go to get those extras.

Don T.

She caught on immediately, and has opposed section 2 ever since

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 12:05 PM

Should have been P.S.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: r.padgett
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 03:12 PM

Missed this so far

This has to be unconstitional and should be throw out particularly if it flies in the face of legislation already on the statute books!

I am getting more concerned about different organisations by the minute, Police, MPs, Lords, LAs, The Press, PLCs and the like

1984 and all that

Ray

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 06 Nov 13 - 09:15 PM

This has to be unconstitutional

But this is the UK. We don't have a constitution. The nearest we have is the Human Rights Act, which is why the Government would like to get rid of it.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 09:04 AM

We have a partial success.

The government, scared of a heavy defeat in the Lords (largely due to our 100,000 name petition delivered by 38 degrees), have backed down and put it on hold for six weeks, ""for further consultation!""

I will be backing 38 degrees in keeping the pressure on throughout.

This would be a very good time to let your MP know, if you haven't already, what expectation he/she will have regarding your vote, if the Bill goes through with Section 2 unaltered.

Most people would agree that section 1, concerning control and transparency of corporate lobbying, is OK, and would therefore want the Bill to succeed, with section 2 amended to protect the freedom of individuals, charities and organisations with no corporate function.

We have drawn the government's and the Lords' attention to the breakdown of the weaknesses and dangers inherent in Section 2, by electoral law expert Ros Baston, in which she states that the alterations recently made were cosmetic and did nothing to improve it.

I can produce links for anybody who wants to look them up.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: GUEST,CS
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 10:36 AM

Thanks for flagging this topic up folks.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 05:07 PM

What Don says seems pretty accurate. The breadhead former moneybroker, my MP Mark Reckless, has, after a brief show of spine, fallen in with his paymasters now.

Experience however of these "pauses" (invented, it seems by this government) is that they are merely to gain a breathing space while the government proposes slippery and deceitful amendments intended to look better just long enough to pass - but still leave the government with the power to gag opponents.

All the people of the UK wanted was to stop venal lobbying, the buying of influence. This bloody government tried to subvert that to gagging unions and charities - all the while leaving about 90% of venal lobbying unaffected.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 06:03 PM

Richard: Yes, it's scary - and maddening - isn't it?

Don T: Thanks for the update, and well done for communicating so effectively with your MP! I have been assured my MP (David Blunkett) is against this bill, so haven't had to do any real "persuading"...

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 07 Nov 13 - 07:42 PM

"Mark Reckless" - that's a name for a real person not a comic book hero? Can anyone keep a straight face when he's introduced?

Six weeks delay of course is just to allow some token "consultation" which will ignore any critical comments, and might help in fending off legal challenge.

It could of course give time for a campaign against the daft parts of the bill to build up, but I doubt if that will happen.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 08:19 AM

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mark_Reckless

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 09:01 AM

""It could of course give time for a campaign against the daft parts of the bill to build up, but I doubt if that will happen.""

It's happening already. Not only "38 Degrees", but "Avaast too", along with a host of charities and other non commercial organisations.

Could you ever have imagined the League Against Cruel Sports standing shoulder to shoulder with the Countryside Alliance? Well, they ARE!

The last petition by 38 Degrees raised 100,000 signatures, 80,000 of them in one day.

For the first time, voters are able to drive home their views and point out when MPs risk haemorrhaging votes, and it has all parties scared shitless. They aren't used to paying more than lip service to accountability.

This is what killed the Forestry sell off and a number of other initiatives, and they'll do anything to muzzle it, but the pressure is being kept up and that six weeks won't change anything in their favour.

If only we'd had that sort of clout, back in 2000 Richard, there would have been an entirely different Licensing Act 2003.

Now we have it, and I'm having a whale of a time.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 10:54 AM

Just for information, I received this letter today:

""Dear Don,

I thought you might be interested to see this article from yesterday's Guardian newspaper:

http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/nov/06/mps-may-regret-bid-to-neuter-charities

I really liked this line:
"The government is attacking charities because it is terrified of them, and this is for a very good reason… If MPs are anxious about the impact a charity could have with a campaign they are dead right to be: just one petition from 38 Degrees could decimate a candidate's chances for years."

The campaign against the gagging law is about far more than just the fate of 38 Degrees. It's about defending everyone's right to have their say. And it's about the government's failure to tackle the real problems with how politics works - the millionaire party donors, the shadowy corporate lobbyists, the broken promises.

But it's still nice to be recognised! And this article shows that we're gaining real momentum. Thanks so much for being part of making that happen.


Thanks again,

David Babbs
Executive Director, 38 Degrees""

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 08 Nov 13 - 11:23 PM

Don - you beat me to posting this... well done!

P.S. My favourite bit is the same as your favourite bit. GMTA, eh?

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: GUEST,Nobody iin Particular
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 11:38 AM

No to gagging order! If anything less gagging and more openness. Can you imagine the abuses that they could get away with hiding behind an order like that?
No reason to stifle any opposing things to surface as long as it is the truth! Just look at all the mess stirred up in the States.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Nov 13 - 12:25 PM

Seems to be a bit of a trend here.
Ireland has a proportional system of voting which has its problems (mainly centering around the Labour Party's tendency to follow the lead of the government of the day in order to stay in office), but works to a degree in preventing them in charge of going too far.
Ireland also has a tendency to decide important issues by referendum.
Last week, in the middle of swingeing health and benefit cuts, new taxes, spiralling prices, accelerated homelessness due to inability to pay morgages... (all brought about to bale Ireland out of the mess caused by greedy bankers and incompetent and corrupt politicians), im in charge, Enda Kenny called a moratorium on all referenda for a year - coincidence or what - almost certainly "what".   
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: Don(Wyziwyg)T
Date: 10 Nov 13 - 11:12 AM

As far as I'm aware, only one government in this country has felt the need to ask the people, when considering an action entirely outwith its mandate.

Well, now the buggers don't have to ask. We're telling them!

And we'll keep on telling them until they either listen, or lose their jobs!

If this Gagging Bill succeeds, and 38 Degrees and the like have to take an enforced holiday, we'll simply turn their own petition site against them.

There is nothing they can do about a couple of million individuals, acting independently, as the gagging law relates to capping campaign expenditure and individuals, spending nothing, are exempt.

Don T.

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 14 Nov 13 - 09:13 PM

An update from 38 Degrees:

The gagging law is now with the House of Lords, who are picking it apart line by line. They know they have a controversial Bill on their hands, and we know some changes will be made. [1] But we don't yet know what they will be, and whether they will go far enough to protect our freedom of speech.

Many Lords may still not realise how dangerous the gagging law is; they might not understand how this Bill would threaten our right to campaign on issues close to our hearts. Some may be worried about going against their party. So let's make sure they know just how important this is.


THERE ARE TWO WAYS WE CAN HELP CONVINCE THE LORDS TO VOTE THE RIGHT WAY

1. Do you have campaigning experience you are willing to share? Is there something you have been part of which is at risk because of the gagging law? If yes, please click here: Share your story

Most of us probably won't know a Lord. But peers have told us that the personal approach works. 38 Degrees members feel really passionately about protecting our right to campaign. If we all share our personal views about this with the Lords, they will be less likely to dismiss the issue.

Do you have a story about how the gagging law could stop you campaigning on an issue you love? Whether you belong to a large charity like Oxfam or have helped set up a small local group, this new law could have a damaging effect on what you can do in the year before an election.

2. Do you know someone in the House of Lords? Would you be willing to contact them personally? If yes, please click here: I know a lord

Nearly two hundred of our members have already been in touch to say they know a Lord and would be happy to contact them. Some have said they are personal friends, or related by marriage. Others have worked with a peer, or simply attend the same church. However you know them, getting in touch will make a difference.

Hearing a personal, passionate plea about why the gagging law is wrong might convince a Lord to vote the right way.


Some 38 Degrees members think the House of Lords plays an important role in our democratic process, and others think it should be reformed. Whatever your view, Peers are going to play a crucial role in deciding what happens to the gagging law, so we need to make sure they know what we think!

If we can bring to life for the Peers exactly what could be lost if the gagging law goes through, then they are more likely to speak out against it.

We're going to collect all of the stories we get from 38 Degrees members, and deliver them directly into Lords' in-trays. We want them to be full of the views of ordinary people up and down the UK.

Can you tell us your story so we can share it with the House of Lords?

https://secure.38degrees.org.uk/gagging-law-share-story

Thanks for being involved,

Belinda, Ian, Blanche and the 38 Degrees team


NOTES
[1] The Independent: Tories put Lobbying Bill on hold over fears of embarrassing defeat in House of Lords: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/tories-put-lobbying-bill-on-hold-over-fears-of-embarrassing-defeat-in-house-of-lords-8923325.html

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords
From: YorkshireYankee
Date: 15 Nov 13 - 08:30 PM

Perhaps a friendly Mudelf could take the "TODAY" off the thread title?

Many thanks!

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: GUEST
Date: 18 Nov 13 - 08:20 PM

Refresh

Subject: RE: BS: UK: Gagging Law in House of Lords TODAY
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 19 Nov 13 - 03:42 AM

I am acquainted (but not closely so) both Maurice Peston and Alexander Stockton. I don't suppose a letter to each of them could do any harm.