Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website

Subject: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 04 Dec 13 - 01:43 PM

I'm getting reference to search results but no display. Any body have any info?

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Thread title edited for clarity. -Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: GUEST,Ed
Date: 04 Dec 13 - 03:13 PM

You might possibly explain your question a little more clearly...

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 04 Dec 13 - 05:49 PM

Sorry-I am finding that when I submit a request through the Full English w/s search engine I am getting a number for results in the left hand column but no display of the results with media items.
I tried on two separate computers and the same happens. I think the fault must be with the host. If nobody is aware I'll ring VWML tomorrow.
kind regards
Nick

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: Tattie Bogle
Date: 04 Dec 13 - 07:55 PM

Are you on the right website for this enquiry? And what is VWML? Makes no sense to me.

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: maeve
Date: 04 Dec 13 - 08:18 PM

Sorry, Nick. I'm also in the dark.

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: Elmore
Date: 04 Dec 13 - 08:23 PM

Sounds like b.s. to me.

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: Jeri
Date: 04 Dec 13 - 08:30 PM

I didn't understand, but I actually GOT what "VWML" was. I don't know how. Vaughn Williams Memorial Library. And I believe the "Full English" is either a breakfast with eggs, bacon, beans on toast, or a music search engine at the EFDSS.

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: RTim
Date: 04 Dec 13 - 11:26 PM

I tried both Search and Browse on the site tonight (here in the USA) and Nick is correct - it is not working!!
If some of the others who replied to this mail in the way they did ACTUALLY looked at the web site (when it is working properly) - they might actually learn something useful!!

http://www.vwml.org/
Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 01:51 AM

[e-mail] is the contact email.

Can I suggest that you try to be a bit more specific with names, facts and the precise nature of the problem if you do get in touch- RTim obviously knew exactly what you meant, but I suspect a lot of us didn't.

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 03:32 AM

I'm afraid I'm among those for whom the initial information provided was not sufficient. My Search Results for VWML did not appear to include anything of much interest to anyone here, although it did suggest that the VMQL might be a viable substitute for use with an older OS.

Given that the Vaughn Williams library is a valued resource for some, it's actual traffic (300 hits/month) is even lower than for mudcat, which as we all well know is frequented only by a small minority lunatic fringe, it cannot be assumed that every one here will recognize every cryptic question, and some who would like to be helpful will ask, sometimes not too politely, for sufficent additional information to at least know when the subject is one we know nothing about.

Asking the question intelligently and sufficiently completely is of some importance.

John

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: maeve
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 06:10 AM

Got to a good answer in the end, though, thanks to Jeri (still laughing) and RTim. I should have thought of the Vaughn Williams library but didn't.

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: Jack Campin
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 07:04 AM

I'd never seen "w/s" used to mean "website" b4 n didnt spec 2 c a msg in txtspk.

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 08:46 AM

There does seem to be a rumbling of usability issues with the Full English site - I've not personally had any problems finding stuff on it, but I've seen a couple of previous threads on Mudcat that suggest some people have difficulty navigating it or finding their way through to actual content rather than just catalogue and index items.

I've not made any sort of proper investigation though, so I really don't know whether it's specific OS, specific browsers, or specific users ...

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 09:00 AM

Lovely to hear from Tim Radford, and thanks to maeve for her good wishes on another thread to my wife after her spinal surgery. It was my hope to use the Full English Website for research while I am at home looking after her. Trust my luck for it to go wrong now.
Grovelling apologies to those who use the website generally, I really did not intend to unearth a bunch of howling pillocks as I seem to have done with my initial enquiry, so I'll report back when I've contacted the library.
kind regards
Nick

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: RTim
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 09:05 AM

Hi again all - and really good to connect to Nick (hope your wife gets better soon).

I wrote to the library this morning, and it seems that the web pages are OK now - I have checked and found what I was looking for, so lets hope it continues to be kept up!!

Regards - Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 05 Dec 13 - 08:43 PM

I visited the site that Tim linked, the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library, which has something to do with the English Folk Song and Dance Society (that's the name, more or less.)

The site invited me to browse a collection jocularly known as 'the Full English,' but I never did manage to achieve my goal, which was to look at a piece of music, play it, and decide if I like it. When I got close to a tune (Sabine Baring Gould's this time), the pages started leaping backward.

Lewis Carroll would have loved this site.

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the New English w/s
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 06 Dec 13 - 01:56 AM

When I got close to a tune (Sabine Baring Gould's this time), the pages started leaping backward.

An example of what I mentioned in my previous post. As with so much else though, mudding about in on Moancat won't actually make a difference, whereas a carefully constructed and detailed description of what happened, sent to the site contact, might. Include stuff like a step-by-step description of what you did and what happened, and also include details of the browser you're using, which version of which operating system, etc.

You might not think it worth doing, but I got a lovely email back from the company running the website for a big concert hall in manchester when I reported an issue with their online booking, and another one a few weeks later to tell me the updated version of the site which fixed the bug had gone live. Still had to pay for my concert tickets though ;)

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website
From: Joe Offer
Date: 06 Dec 13 - 03:28 AM

I guess I'm part of the "small minority lunatic fringe" using the VWML Website of the EFDSS, although usually I laboriously explain that it's the Vaughan Williams Memorial Library of the English Folk Dance and Song Society. I suppose I use it mostly for Steve Roud's folk song index. The Full English, which is relatively new, bills itself "The world's biggest free digital archive of English traditional folk music and dance tunes." I've just begun to explore it, and it's not yet a resource I use regularly. This YouTube Video (click) explains the story behind "The Full English."

Steve, you may not think it does any good to talk about things like this on "Moancat," but I've often seen things accomplished in response to Mudcat posts - somebody here understands the problem and knows whom to contact, and the problem is addressed.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 06 Dec 13 - 07:59 AM

I offer the following information in order to dispel some of the inaccuracies in this thread and suggest what people should do if they encounter a problem with The Full English.

The initial query should, of course, have referred to The FULL English, not NEW English.
The actual name of the Library (and the composer and song collector) is Vaughan Williams Memorial Library (not Vaughn).
the Library is owned by the English Folk Dance and Song Society, not English Folk Song and Dance Society. Hence EFDSS not EFSDS.
A Google search for VWML brings up www.vwml.org as the first site in the search.
In November, there were 18,000 page views by just under 3000 people. I have no idea where John in Kansas gets his figures from.
If users have an issue with access or with using the online digital archive, then there are online guides and people should contact the Library ([e-mail].
The site was down for a day earlier this week. It happens. Mudcat has been offline several times in the last month. It happens.

Derek

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website
From: Mr Happy
Date: 06 Dec 13 - 08:02 AM

It'd clarify if Nick Dow spoke 'Full English' in his query!

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 06 Dec 13 - 01:44 PM

Bugger sorry Derek I never spotted that in my title! I think I must have been in a hurry.I sometimes think you can become word blind. So I will willingly hold my hands up to that. I could have done without some of the stupid replies though. The mentality seems to be 'Don't get the enquiry so lets try and be clever, because of course I am being sooooo entertaining' The Full English is now working fine so I'll go away and practice my typing and next time I make an enquiry be a bit more explicit.

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website
From: GUEST,leeneia
Date: 06 Dec 13 - 01:50 PM

"mudding about in on Moancat won't actually make a difference, whereas a carefully constructed and detailed description of what happened, sent to the site contact, might."

Now why should I do all that clerical work for nothing, especially when there is no guarantee that anyone will pay any attention?

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website
From: r.padgett
Date: 06 Dec 13 - 02:04 PM

Well glad that little spat has been sorted!

VWML EFDSS and Full English causing trouble!

Ray

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 06 Dec 13 - 02:09 PM

God love you Ray! Look forward to hearing you sing again soon.

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website
From: r.padgett
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 02:24 AM

Out and about at Barnsley, Wakefield and Sheffield in pubs like Fernandes Tap at Wakey, Fagans and The Shakey in Sheffield, The Trades in Barnsley (time we had you at Barnsley folk and acoustic!)

Ray

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website
From: GUEST,Peter
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 09:18 AM

"Now why should I do all that clerical work for nothing, especially when there is no guarantee that anyone will pay any attention? "

But if you do just as much clerical work to post your compaint somewhere else then people who don't know you will just assume that you are one of those weirdos who just gets off on complaining.

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website
From: SteveMansfield
Date: 07 Dec 13 - 11:25 AM

Now why should I do all that clerical work for nothing, especially when there is no guarantee that anyone will pay any attention?

Why should you 'do all that clerical work' and send it to someone who might actually be able to do something about fixing it?

Because maybe they might take notice, and fix it. Or maybe they point you to some reference material that tells you how to avoid the issue. If it's something that got missed in testing, and as a result of your report they fix it, then you and also anyone else who might otherwise encounter the same issue, won't; meaning everyone gets a better service from the website in question.

So basically it's a combination of altruism and self-interest.

Or maybe they don't act on it, in which case, well at least you tried.

I would still argue that it's far better to contact the actual owner of the site in question and describe the issue to them, than it is to post your issue on a general discussion site in the vague hope that someone from the site you're complaining about is reading.

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 11:31 AM

Try the new EFDSS website for something which is worse than the original, though - and for the same reason the Tories killed theirs, it exposed embarrassments the management prefers buried as they're not going away.

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website
From: RTim
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 11:38 AM

Guest - who are you and what on earth are you on about??

Tim Radford

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website
From: GUEST,Nick Dow
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 04:45 PM

I'll get in touch Ray...

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website
From: GUEST
Date: 08 Dec 13 - 06:28 PM

They suppressed last December's Board Minutes and haven't published any more in the year since. The evidence must speak for itself.

Subject: RE: Tech: trouble with the 'Full English' Website
From: Brian Peters
Date: 09 Dec 13 - 01:39 PM

Can't believe some of the snarky responses Nick Dow (who some of us know as a distinguished singer and musician as well as a nice bloke) has received in response to a simple enquiry.

Some of us were discussing problems with loading material on the Full English site two weeks ago. It's a fantastic resource, so I hope the bugs get sorted out soon.