Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)

Subject: Obit: Pete Seeger
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:15 AM

News seems to have seeped out of Dutchess County, NY, that Pete Seeger has passed away. Dan Schatz has posted on facebook about it. There is nothing on the regular news outlets yet.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:26 AM

First person I listened to in this music, Had I a Golden Thread, 12 Gates to the City.

Rest in peace

Patrick

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger
From: Joe Offer
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:28 AM

Dan got the information from Jennifer Cutting of the Library of Congress, and she's a very reliable source.

May he rest in peace.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Skivee, guesting in
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:34 AM

Joe, I think she got it from Dan, who heard from a reliable source mutual friend.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:41 AM

The New York Times now has an obituary in place.

Pete Seeger, the singer, folk-song collector and songwriter who spearheaded an American folk revival and spent a long career championing folk music as both a vital heritage and a catalyst for social change, died Monday. He was 94 and lived in Beacon, N.Y.

His death was confirmed by his grandson, Kitama Cahill Jackson, who said he died of natural causes at NewYork-Presbyterian Hospital.

Mr. Seeger's career carried him from singing at labor rallies to the Top 10 to college auditoriums to folk festivals, and from a conviction for contempt of Congress (after defying the House Un-American Activities Committee in the 1950s) to performing on the steps of the Lincoln Memorial at an inaugural concert for Barack Obama.

For Mr. Seeger, folk music and a sense of community were inseparable, and where he saw a community, he saw the possibility of political action.

In his hearty tenor, Mr. Seeger, a beanpole of a man who most often played 12-string guitar or five-string banjo, sang topical songs and children's songs, humorous tunes and earnest anthems, always encouraging listeners to join in. His agenda paralleled the concerns of the American left: He sang for the labor movement in the '40s and '50s, for civil rights marches and anti-Vietnam War rallies in the '60s, and for environmental and antiwar causes in the '70s and beyond. "We Shall Overcome," which Mr. Seeger adapted from old spirituals, became a civil rights anthem.

The article is quite long, you'll find the rest at the link, and their links are durable so I won't copy the whole thing here.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:45 AM

this news is so new it's still not on google.

I treasure my only contact with him - a reply to birthday wishes a few years ago, He sent a handwritten form letter which included apologies for not answering personally as he had been overwhelmed by letters since playing for President Obama's inauguration.

RIP to a wonderful human being

sandra

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Neil D
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:58 AM

Very sad news. I know he was 94 but somehow you just thought he would go on forever.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,henryp
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 02:06 AM

Very sad news, but it's the opportunity to celebrate his life too.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Elmore
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 02:08 AM

It makes me feel like a beloved family member died. May he rest in peace.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Kampervan
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 02:10 AM

Very, very sad day for his family, for the folk world and for many others who were touched by his great songs and his wonderful performances.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: VirginiaTam
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 02:22 AM

I fell into uncontrollable weeping as soon as I heard the report on BBC Radio 4. Haven't been so affected by the death of famous person since John Lennon. Well I should be happy that he had such a good long run at being the artful gadfly.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 02:24 AM

He was an inspiration to a generation.
We will not see his like again.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Haruo
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 02:34 AM

Inspiration to more than one generation. I'm pushing sixty, and when I was a college freshman I had a crush on a girl who was proud to say she had been conceived at a Pete Seeger concert.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Larry The Radio Guy
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 02:36 AM

Pete Seeger was amazing.   I remember seeing him in concert at the Jubilee Auditorium in Edmonton in the early 70's. A friend and I were wanting to start a folk club, and we went back stage to talk to him. He spoke to us for a full hour, just talking about folk music, his respect for Canadian folk music (and how it was such a shame it wasn't honoured in it's own country the way it was honoured in others.   Such a memorable experience. I wish I would have recorded it.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: elfcape
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 02:39 AM

His life was a miracle. How he survived a wonder. Where he learned the courage to be what he was? We should all seek the same. He was a very brave human being. And just went on being himself while doing what he felt was right.

Thanks, Pete, for every single piece of you that you gave away so indomitably.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Dave Sutherland
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:07 AM

The world of folk music, and music in general, will be poorer for his passing. Only got to see him live once when he visited Newcastle upon Tyne in 1978; a fantastic performance which will never be forgotten.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Roger the Skiffler
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:27 AM

Not unexpected but sad nevertheless. The Weavers, along with Woody, Ledbelly and Ramblin' Jack, were my introduction to American folk music. His long and courageous career as a political and environmental activist were an inspiration to millions and his music a great influence.

RtS

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: JohnInKansas
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:47 AM

MSNBC noticed this about ten minutes ago:

Iconic folk singer and activist Pete Seeger dead at 94

F. Brinley Bruton and Christopher Nelson, NBC News
28 January 2014

Pete Seeger, the iconic banjo-strumming folk singer and activist who performed for migrant workers and presidents, died on Monday. He was 94.

Seeger, the writer or co-writer of "If I Had a Hammer," "Turn, Turn, Turn," and "Where Have All the Flowers Gone," died of natural causes in a New York City hospital, his grandson Kitama Cahill-Jackson confirmed to NBC News early Tuesday.

"He got the world to sing," his grandson said. "I think he was a role model to his family, to the whole world."

"He thought everyone could be heroic," Cahill-Jackson added.
As a member of the Communist Party in the 1940s, Seeger's skepticism of those in power carried through his career. He was a longtime supporter of the labor movement, and supported the civil rights and anti-Vietnam War movements. Seeger was also convicted of contempt of Congress after refusing to answer questions at the House Un-American Activities Committee.

"Be wary of great leaders," he told The Associated Press after a 2011 Manhattan Occupy march. "Hope that there are many, many small leaders."

Nevertheless, he performed for presidents as well, including at President Barack Obama's inauguration concert in 2009.

President Bill Clinton hailed him as "an inconvenient artist who dared to sing things as he saw them."

Seeger was born on May 3, 1919, to an artistic family in New York City, and dropped out of Harvard and took to the road in 1938.
"The sociology professor said, 'Don't think that you can change the world. The only thing you can do is study it,'" Seeger said in October 2011, according to the AP.

During World War II, he entertained soldiers in the South Pacific as part of the Special Services.

Seeger was credited with popularizing what became the anthem for the civil rights movement, "We Shall Overcome," although he said his contribution to the actual song was minimal.

In 1996, he was inducted into the Rock and Roll Hall of Fame, and in 2014 became a Grammy Awards nominee in the Best Spoken Word category.
"Every kid who ever sat around a campfire singing an old song is indebted in some way to Pete Seeger," said fellow folk singer Arlo Guthrie, son of Woody Guthrie, according to the AP.

John

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Gervase
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:47 AM

For me he epitomised all that was great and admirable about America. Seeger was a towering presence in so many people's lives, even if they didn't know it. Still, 94 is a good innings.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: fat B****rd
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:48 AM

RIP Mr.Seeger. A remarkable man.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Dave Hanson
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:49 AM

RIP Pete, the world is a lesser place today.

Dave H

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:49 AM

"This machine surrounds hate & forces it to surrender."

Go on, brother; your shift is finished and you done good.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: melodeonboy
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:50 AM

An inspirational man, both musically and politically. RIP.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: nager
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:55 AM

So sorry to hear the news. Pete Seeger was an inspiration to so many of us. Thanks for everyhting Pete... you will be remembered for ever!!

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: KT
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:56 AM

In the spirit of friendship, shared sorrow in his passing and gratitude for his time here, I offer this link, which Genie shared on FB. Thank you, Pete.
KT

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Leadfingers
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:59 AM

Martin Simpson on 'Today' - BBC Radio4 now   Tha Singaround above just got a HUGE addition .

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: bbc
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 04:17 AM

Such sad news, but a life well-lived. I heard him perform in his/my local area at a free hardware store concert, once, & Duane had a chance to chat with him. This is history.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Brian May
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 04:19 AM

A giant in folk.

Rest easy Pete, the work you could do, you did. Thank you for being, you're the reason I play guitar and at the banjo.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Wolfgang
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 04:22 AM

A legend when still alive, and a legend he remains now.

Wolfgang

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Matthew Edwards
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 04:23 AM

So long, Pete, it's been good to know you. I grew up listening to your songs, and I still often sing them. You have been an inspiration to so many generations all over the world. Goodnight, Pete Seeger, goodnight.

Matthew

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: andymac
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 04:23 AM

I never met him but he inspired me as he did countless others. The world just lost a beautiful person. RIP Pete. Thanks

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 04:41 AM

I have a little note from him when i wrote to him many years ago with the little banjo looped into the signature. That he had time to write to me moves me greatly. I found the letter this morning. A true true legend. Saw him play a little when he came to London.

Patrick

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,RWJ
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 04:43 AM

Sad news, gone but never will be forgoten. My thought are with his family.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Waddon Pete
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 04:45 AM

Thank you for that clip KT. It catches the mood wonderfully. There are, of course, many superlatives that can be used to celebrate Pete Seeger and all his many achievements. Folk music and justifiable public protest would have been so different if he hadn't put so much energy and love into it.

RIP

Peter

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Bert
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 04:52 AM

I just finished watching a show on Netflix about Greenwich Village and he featured prominently.

By you ol' fart, we'll miss you.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,cujimmy
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 04:54 AM

Rest in peace Pete, your inspiration will carry on within every generation.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 05:08 AM

Sorry to hear this sad news ... he has left us with so much.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Jean(eanjay)
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 05:10 AM

Apologies that guest post was mine, didn't realise I wasn't logged in.

RIP

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Lizzie Cornish 1
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 05:10 AM

Artists 4 Action - Recent (and lovely) Interview with Pete

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 05:13 AM

It is indeed a sad day. Pete had an enormous influence over here in England as well, from his visits, especially in about 1964 when he did a concert in London which gave a great boost to the rapidly expanding folk song movement, and in the way he inspired others by his own example to sing along in the choruses and to sing about justice. I saw him in concert just once - on his last visit to England for sister Peggy's 70th birthday concert in London. A treasured memory.
Derek

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: The Sandman
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 05:19 AM

A truly great man, an inspiration. R.I P. Dick Miles

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Pete Jennings
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 05:22 AM

Legend. RIP.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: The Barden of England
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 05:27 AM

There's no more I can add to what's already been said. What a life and what a man. Rest easy.
John Barden

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 05:38 AM

I feel as though the heart has been torn from me. R.I.Pete

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: bradfordian
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 05:41 AM

MY RAINBOW RACE

One blue sky above us,
One ocean, lapping all our shores.
One earth so green and round,
Who could ask for more?

And because I love you
I'll give it one more try
To show my rainbow race
It's too soon to die.

One of my favorites, but sooo many to choose from.
A monumental influence on the folk and political scene.
A great "innings" and many, many thanks for your contribution.
RIP Pete Seeger

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Guest
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 05:44 AM

The giant is gone, RIP Pete.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: gnu
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 06:07 AM

RIP... and thanks.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 06:24 AM

A light has gone out, not only for we folk people but for the human race worldwide. I am deeply saddened by his passing, but equally am glad that I knew his music and that I met him and shook his hand. Thank you, and Rest in Peace Pete. We all owe you so much. Rest assured thatthe singing will go on. Condolences to Peggy and the rest of the family. RoyH.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 06:29 AM

Thanks for that tribute Roy. Extremely well put and very moving. But that's two humanitarian giants we've lost in as many months. I know they had both reached the grand old ages of 94. But will someone tell God to go easy. We haven't got many left.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: voyager
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 06:36 AM

The Seeger Family Have Been a Musical Gift to our Country

Lyrics to Or Else! (One-A These Days) :
(Pete Seeger, David Bernz and A.N. Onymous. Music by Pete Seeger)

[Chorus:]
One-a these days (ONE-A THESE DAYS)
One-a these days (ONE-A THESE DAYS)
One-a these days, one-a these days
OR ELSE!

Our school will get the money it needs for smaller classes,
And the Navy will hold a bake sale to build a battleship.

[Chorus]

And Johnny will get the money he needs for that operation,
And the Air Force will hold a raffle to buy a bomber.

[Chorus]

And every vote will be counted in every election,
And the winners will always keep all of their promises.

[Chorus]

And around the world we'll learn each other's languages
And the very first thing we'll learn is how to listen.
(spoken) "Who knows the word for 'hello' in some other language?"
(spoken responses of "hello" in several languages)

[Chorus]

God only knows what the future will be
God only knows what the future will be
But God gave us brains
He meant us to use 'em

RIP
voyager

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Doc John
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 06:50 AM

Goodbye Pete Seeger; you've been with us for such a long time it's hard to believe that you're not around anymore. A giant in folk music who brought so much to the world; always a fighter for human rights and dignity; and most of all a true gentleman. Thank you!

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: catspaw49
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 07:05 AM

The first thing I ever searched for and found on the net was Pete's HUAC testimony..........

There are volumes to say about Pete and absolutely nothing to say. Travel on........and Thanks Pete.......

Spaw

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 07:20 AM

Pete meant everything to me when I was starting out in 1950. I had a guitar and was learning Burl Ives songs, but it was hearing the Weavers, then Pete's first Folkways LP that made me seek out a 5-string (they were rare then) and learn to play it.

I first saw Pete live at Woodstock, Vermont. Pete came to Dartmouth College in February 1956 at my behest (I'd co-founded a folksingers club with another picker, Dick Martz), gave a stirring concert. He borrowed my ax to chop a log for "Didn't Old John Cross the Water on His Knees," scared the pants off the college administration.

Over the years Pete has been there so many times and in so many places. I watched that Smothers Brothers show when he sang "Waist Deep in the Big Muddy." Vietnam and all the massed power of the US mil-industrial complex was on its horse and here was one lone voice finally breaking back into TV to sing about the Big Fool telling us to press on.

I was just reflecting this morning that, had it not been for Pete, the Weavers and Moe Asch's Folkways, it's possible there never could have been a folk movement on the scale and of the type that broke out in the 50s.

We're all here in large part because of Pete. Wow. I'm stunned and it will take a while to get used to a world without him. But of course he's still here, singing on in lots of us. They talk about us old folkies being Woody's children, but in a bigger and wider sense we're Pete's kids.

He fixed the world so it will never be the same. Singing on. Picking on. Don't forget.

Bob Coltman

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Hrothgar
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:00 AM

I know he influenced folk music throughout the English-speaking world, and I think he had a solid impact in other languages as well.

We might never see his like again.

RIP

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: topical tom
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:02 AM

Pete was a hero of mine since 1955. He taught us to sing together and how we should live together, He championed rights and freedom and fought wrong wherever he found it. Thanks so much, Pete, for the optimism and the fight for the right at all times. It had to happen but there is a lump in my throat this morning. RIP, Pete. You led a great life and deserve a rest.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Sandy Mc Lean
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:20 AM

For a man to change the world for the better using banjo, guitar and voice is certainly a great legacy! A man so unconcerned with legacy who inspired the world to change itself will always be my hero! RIP Pete!

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,kendall
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:21 AM

I've dreaded this day. My first encounter with Pete was listening to the Weavers. Then in 1969 we met at the home of our mutual friend, Gordon Bok. Pete gave me my first banjo on that long neck vega of his. I was hooked. We crossed paths a number of times, then when Dan Schatz came up with this memorial cd for Utah Phillips, I asked Pete if he would contribute. He sang the song he wrote for the cd on the telephone! What a hoot.

He was charged with Contempt of Congress! How many of us would qualify for that? He didn't hide behind the 5th amendment, he stood on the FIRST amendment!
One of my few heroes. RIP Pete.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Eric the Viking
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:24 AM

Pete and Malvina Reynolds, introduced to by two different friends, led me into a lifetime love of folk music that has lasted and never waned. Thankyou.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:28 AM

Wasn't that a time.
On this sad day it's comforting to know that so much that is good will live on because of Pete.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,SINS
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:30 AM

My favorite Seeger moment: offering to sing for HUAC. RIP SINS

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Guest-Dianne
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:38 AM

Like so many who posted above, I was introduced to folk music first by Pete and the Weavers. I had the great good fortune to see him in person a few times during the '60's and '70's. His soaring voice, driving banjo were amazing. Pete used the energy of his audience to replenish what he was expending so that every set was full of life and each song seemed "new" again.
Pete lived his values and was a great teacher. We are all better because of him.
Pete's light may be out, but oh how many others he lit during his time among us.
Dianne

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:46 AM

Anytime something happened to make you feel bad about America, Pete was there to remind you there's a better side that's more American than that.

Time to remember how Joe Hill put it, "Don't mourn - organize".

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Tunesmith
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 09:29 AM

It's good to see that Pete's passing has be given good coverage on BBC TV news.
Pete was my introduction to folk music.
He did radio show for the BBC around 1960.
Just Pete and his banjo and guitar, and a marvellous selection of songs.
I taped the show ans still have it somewhere.
Pete was so good in so many areas.
I only saw him live once at the Manchester Free Trade Hall back in 1964.
He was, is course, quite wonderful.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,buddhuu sans biscuit
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 09:33 AM

Legend.

Sang the songs and walked the walk.

Well played, Mr Seeger.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Jed Marum
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 09:36 AM

a wonderful songster with a gift for the music and a light for the spirit of mankind - indeed for all of life! Farewell Pete may your joyous strain echo throughout the generatons.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 09:54 AM

And, as Joe Hill might have added, and I'm sure Pete would have added "...and sing while you're doing it!"

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,John from Kemsing
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 09:59 AM

I recorded the BBC programme of Pete Seeger in conversation with Bob Copper when Bob was taken to New York, two giants in the world of folk music speaking of their lives and the music associated with them. It is an even more precious archive now. Both understandably gone now but never forgotten.

R.I.P.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 10:21 AM

I just heard about this a few minutes ago. It's very strange since I just posted a photo yesterday of a very young Pete Seeger on Facebook Forum Exceedingly Good Song Night performing in uniform at a special event in Washington, DC, in 1944: "Pete Seeger, noted folk singer, entertaining at the opening of the Washington labor canteen, Valentine's Day, sponsored by the United Federal Labor Canteen, Federal Workers of American, and Congress of Industrial Organizations (CIO), photographed by Joseph Anthony Horne, February 14, 1944. First Lady Eleanor Roosevelt is in the audience, seated between two sailors, Prints and Photographs LC-USW3- 040956-D. Mural by Woody Guthrie in the background." I'll post the photo on the Facebook Mudcat Forum page as well.

My parents first took me to a Pete Seeger concert at Bowdoin College in the 1950s. I was able to talk with him at several political song-writing workshops in the early 1980s and was present when he helped launch the Sloop Clearwater from the Harvey Gamage Shipyard in Maine. He certainly has been an inspiration and a role model for me.

He's left us a lot of work to do but he also showed us how to do it.

Here's a verse and chorus from one of my songs that sums up the moment for me:

Now, our time is drawing near,
The farthest shore is becoming clear;
So trim the sail, make fast the sheet,
We've old friends we'd like to meet;
They'll welcome us upon the shore,
And join us in this song.

Pastures of memories,
Sifting through life's mysteries,
Golden cows and butterflies,
All on a summer's day!

Charlie Ipcar

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 10:22 AM

Although I feel a sadness that Pete is no longer with us in body, I totally believe that he lives in each of us, in each person whose life he touched and that is a great chunk of the world's population. As the "six degrees of separation" has lessened through the internet, there are very few whose lives are not touched by his music, thus, by him.

He is with us in spirit. He shared so much of himself and that sharing continues. Nothing can stop it. I have no doubt he will RIP, knowing he did what he could, shared himself completely and left a sharing, caring legacy for us to - Carry it on.

May his death be so well covered by the media that even more of the world will know his worth, his thoughts, his kind and loving spirit, his rebel spirit, his stand up and be counted and rock the boat spirit. He stood for the best in - every aspect of life and in everybody.

Carry it on. Each of us to the best of our ability, knowing he is still supporting us.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 10:28 AM

Amen, Dorothy.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: eddie1
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 10:37 AM

A big loss to the world of folk music, conservation and activism but he has left one hell of a legacy!
I was fortunate enough to meet him back in the days when.........
Pete was doing a concert at the Usher Hall in Edinburgh. For those who don't know it, it is Edinburgh's equivalent of London's Albert Hall or New York's Carnegie Hall! History of symphony concerts etc. First big positive – we've all been to concerts by "stars" when the first 45 minutes of each half are taken up by a relatively unknown and the star does a hurried 25 minute spot before the interval and maybe 30 minutes at the end? None of that with Pete – there was no-one else. He was announced and came onstage carrying that big Stan Francis 12-string and his famous Vega long-neck banjo. He left the stage to return with a double-headed felling axe! Off again and back with a huge tree-trunk! Pete then sang "Take This Hammer" while chopping hell out of the tree trunk! The real show however, was the hallkeeper, standing at the side of the stage and watching this guy making a mess of his precious stage! His face went from pink, to red, to purple, to black! The concert was truly wonderful!
After the concert, a bunch of us went to The Howff in High Street and that took up the rest of the night. Pete & Toshi were there with daughter sleeping in the guitar case! Pete did plenty of singing but took plenty of time to sit back and listen to other singers, joining in choruses and applauding. A true gentleman who will be sorely missed.
RIP Pete

Eddie

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Charley Noble
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 10:46 AM

Here's a link to the photo I mentioned above of a young Pete Seeger singing at a special event in Washington, DC, in 1944 that I pasted to the Facebook Mudcat Cafe Forum: Click here for photo!

You may have to scroll down to view it.

Charlie Ipcar

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Bill D
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 10:54 AM

Pete was invited to sing in Wichita, Kans. in 1962, by the Classic Guitar Society... which had a 'folk' branch. I was in the lobby when this tall, gaunt man walked in wearing multicolored patchwork shirt & jeans. I wondered what THIS was about.......... then he went onstage, and I saw little old ladies standing & singing to the most amazing music! I stood and sang & clapped & laughed myself... and I was hooked. One of my first 5 LPs was The Weavers.

One of the numbers Pete did that night was the recitation, daring the audience to follow him.. "One big fat hen, two ducks, three limerick oysters...etc."
Over 40 years later I attended the concert where Pete, Mike and Peggy were together for the last time, and I got to speak to Pete, shake his hand, and ask him about that recitation. His eyes lit up and he stood there in the crowd and recited the entire thing for me!

I have somewhere, a picture my wife took with me in the frame with Pete... I will make it my desktop for awhile.

So long, Pete...... thanks for everything........

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: frogprince
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 11:10 AM

How often has one person so combined wisdom, courage, compassion, and such ability to inspire countless others by communicating it all simply and joyfully?

"Now here's the part for you angels to the left of me.."

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Bob Ryszkiewicz
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 11:23 AM

Thanks Pete...

Rest in Peace

bob

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Haruo
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 12:02 PM

NPR Memorial this morning

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Rex
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 12:02 PM

Pete was devoted to pointing out injustice and he did so by singing. I was fortunate to attend some of his concerts and to get to talk to him. It is true that Earl was an influence in my picking up the banjo but so was Pete. Most of my life I've played the banjo as he showed us. The world is a better place for his being here.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 12:02 PM

The Takeaway (a National Public Radio program) is just starting here, but I see the segment discussing Pete is already posted. It offers links to other stories.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Dharmabum
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 12:37 PM

May we all strive to leave behind a legacy as impressive as Pete Seeger has.

RIP Mr.Seeger

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Amergin
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:02 PM

His uncle Alan Seeger was a poet killed in the First World War...and now Pete has had his own rendezvous with Death.


I Have a Rendezvous with Death

by Alan Seeger        

I have a rendezvous with Death   
At some disputed barricade,   
When Spring comes back with rustling shade   
And apple-blossoms fill the air—   
I have a rendezvous with Death
When Spring brings back blue days and fair.   
   
It may be he shall take my hand   
And lead me into his dark land   
And close my eyes and quench my breath—   
It may be I shall pass him still.
I have a rendezvous with Death   
On some scarred slope of battered hill,   
When Spring comes round again this year   
And the first meadow-flowers appear.   
   
God knows 'twere better to be deep
Pillowed in silk and scented down,   
Where love throbs out in blissful sleep,   
Pulse nigh to pulse, and breath to breath,   
Where hushed awakenings are dear...   
But I've a rendezvous with Death
At midnight in some flaming town,   
When Spring trips north again this year,   
And I to my pledged word am true,   
I shall not fail that rendezvous.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Steve Parkes
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:05 PM

Goodbye Pete ... thanks for, well, everything; I owe you so much. Your legacy will live on.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:15 PM

What I was trying to say:

Do not stand at my grave and weep.
I am not there. I do not sleep.
I am a thousand winds that blow.
I am the diamond glints on snow.
I am the sunlight on ripened grain.
I am the gentle autumn rain.
When you awaken in the mornings hush
I am the swift uplifting rush
Of quiet birds in circled flight.
I am the soft stars that shine at night.
Do not stand at my grave and cry;
I am not there; I did not die.

Mary Elizabeth Frye.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: bbc
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:16 PM

I guess the last time I saw Pete was when he made a surprise appearance, as an audience member, at our folk society's concert in Hyde Park, New York on November 7, 2008. The concert featured the Short Sisters. Pete said he'd never had a chance to hear his niece, Kate, perform. It was great fun, having him & his family sit in the row, just behind me. One man approached him, during the intermission, & told him he looked just like Pete Seeger!

Barbara

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Duane D.
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:26 PM

(Mudcat wouldn't let me sign in, tried four times)

Here is a link to an image given to me from the intermission at the Short Sister's concert Barbara mentioned. I just posted it to my Flickr pages. I'm in the center talking to Pete.

http://www.flickr.com/photos/cyberastrofolkie/12192240424/

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:43 PM

Amergin. Thanks for remembering the Alan Seeger poem. I'm trying to persuade Radical Liverpool, which is a left wing performance venue we have in Liverpool, to devote next month's session to Pete, and was wondering what I could contribute. Absolutely perfect.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Don Firth
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 01:52 PM

I had the honor and pleasure of meeting Pete in October of 1954 when the newly-formed Pacific Northwest Folklore Society sponsored him in a concert here in Seattle. There was a party after the concert, and about a half-dozen of us wound up at four o'clock in the morning sitting cross-legged on Carol Lee Waite's living room floor with Pete, passing my newly purchased Martin guitar back and forth and asking Pete questions like, "What is that weird chord Leadbelly uses on 'Black Girl?'" with Pete picking up the guitar and demonstrating.

Fantastic session! And learning experience!

Then again in 1957, when he again sang in Seattle and held a workshop in the afternoon before the concert.

Pete was remarkably generous and eager to share his knowledge with people.

This morning, NPR's John Hockenberry, on his program "The Takeaway" did a very nice feature on Pete Seeger.

After playing a sampling of Pete singing songs he either wrote or is strongly associated with, Hockenberry finished the feature by saying, "He once asked, 'where have all the flowers gone?' Well, now we know. He left them all behind. For us."

I must admit, I got a bit emotional. . . .

Don Firth

P. S. Report from On High today is that a whole bunch of angels are trading in their harps on long-necked 5-string banjos.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Peter the Squeezer
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 02:49 PM

RIP Pete

Thanks for all that you did for all of us - every citizen of planet Earth!

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Crowhugger
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 02:57 PM

Ohhhhhhhhhh no...
Teethed on his music, toddled to the sound of my mom learning banjo using his how-to book and record, then mixing those banjo techniques with her own guitar style. His music was integral to my whole childhood and teens, less so in early adulthood and more so again lately.
Wowwww. Been dreading this day. I don't know how to honour his passing in a way that'll do him justice. Will give it my best shot. When I figure it out it'll surely be about conscience as much as music.
You RIP, Pete.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Peter T.
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:06 PM

Rick Fielding and I used to talk about Pete Seeger all the time -- he was the reason Rick became a musician, he'd seen him in a concert in Montreal. I remember thinking that I had missed out on seeing Pete Seeger in my life, and then he came to Toronto for a documentary film and I got to see him play. One of the thrills of my life.

There is a lovely story in a New Yorker profile of Seeger some years ago. The author of the profile had interviewed Seeger a number of times and was trying to figure out how to end the piece. The author had to put things on hold to go and visit his mother who lived north of Albany, so he got into his car and drove north through a pelting rainstorm. This was during the runup to the Iraq War. Somewhere on the road to Albany he passed a man standing out in the middle of nowhere beside the highway, all alone in the pouring rain, holding up a sign saying "No to the War in Iraq!". As he was going by, the author suddenly realized that the man was Pete Seeger.

And let us not forget that he was one of the great early voices for the environment. My music group will be singing "Sailing Up, Sailing Down" next week in tribute.

Bye, Pete. You were one of the few proofs that human beings are worthy of existence.

Peter T.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: bbc
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:21 PM

How nice to hear from you, Peter, & how nice to see Rick Fielding's name. Pete enriched so many lives!

Barbara

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Arkie
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:48 PM

I had the pleasure of attending several of Pete's concerts and am the owner of a few of his Folkways recordings. He did as much as one can man can do to make the world a better place. I am glad we had him with us for so long.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:50 PM

Here is a search at The New Yorker for articles about Pete Seeger. There are several to choose from.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,John Salicco
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 03:57 PM

Pete Seeger was one of the first musical influences in my life. He was the one who inspired me to get my first banjo. Pete demonstrated, more than anything else to me, the tremendous power of song in bringing people together.

His passing strikes a wistful chord with all of us who were enriched by his performance artistry and convictions.

"He's a long time gone/ But his songs live on".

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,BanjoRay
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 04:10 PM

Pete totally changed my life, for which I will always be grateful.
Bye Pete.....

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Learaí na Láibe
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 04:12 PM

I gcór na bhflaitheas go raibh a ghuth binn le clos go brách.

RIP

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Dorothy Parshall
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 04:54 PM

What Pete Said:

"To my old brown earth, and to my old blue sky
I now give these last few molecules of 'I;'
And you who weep, and you who stand nearby,
I do charge you not to cry:
Guard well our human chain--
Watch well you keep it strong
As long as sun will shine.
And this, our home, keep pure and sweet and green,
For now I'm yours, and you are also mine." ---Pete Seeger

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Desert Dancer
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 05:27 PM

Oh, thanks, Dorothy Parshall.

To My Old Brown Earth

~ Becky in Long Beach

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Susanne (skw)
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 06:52 PM

If there's one person who should have lived forever - not because he'd want to but because he is needed - surely that must be Pete Seeger! A sad day, and yet - he's left us so much to go on learning and enjoying. RIP, Pete!

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Trad Folkie
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 07:01 PM

Here are links to two additional obits of Pete:

Facebook Obit by Judy Collins

Sloop Clearwater's Obit of Pete

Pete we will miss you!!!!

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: mark gregory
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 07:09 PM

Pete knew that everyone could sing and in his concerts he proved it every time. I was lucky enough to be part of the organising group that welcomed him to Sydney on his first visit and just one of the many unpaid volunteers that helped organise his concert at Sydney University. Pete always knew there was a community there to help when the some of the most powerful in the world were still trying to stop him.

"guard well our human chain" indeed

Farewell Pete

~ mark in sydney ~

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: olddude
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:24 PM

thought we would have him forever, I just can come to grips with him being gone now. Thanks for all the great music Pete.

RIP

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Joybell
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 08:46 PM

We're so very sad. Joy and her True-love

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Donuel
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 09:13 PM

Pete brought my parents together with his music. Dad was a fan of Woody and Pete and was only a year older than Pete. After the un-American activity commission you could say he was an ardent fan. His meager record collection was simply the Weavers, The Investigator, Union songs and later Paul Robson.
My mother Irene certainly lingered in Dad's dreams with a little help from the song 'goodnight Irene'. When I was 3 I enjoyed the attention I got by singing Pete's songs.

I have the 2 hour documentary on Pete's life and have the means to supply a dvd copy.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 09:31 PM

I have been alternately singing and crying all day, and sometimes both at once. It feels like losing a close family member, and I didn't even know him all that well. I've talked to people who feel the same way who had never met him at all. Pete was more than an influential figure - as Utah Phillips said, "He invented what I do." I doubt many of us would be singing the music we sing, and living the lives we live, were it not for Pete. I know that I certainly would not be the person that I am.

So I took advantage of an unusually light schedule this evening to write down some thoughts about Pete in a blog post. Somehow I don't think I'm the only one who feels this way.

And now I guess it's the turning of an era - more and more it is up to those of us who are the musical and spiritual children and grandchildren of Pete to carry the music on, to keep getting people singing with each other, keep bringing people together, keep holding on to what is right and what is possible, keep honoring the old songs and the good new ones.

Pete gave us 94 years, and they were good ones. Now it's our turn. Well may the world roll.

Dan

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Mark Ross
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 09:45 PM

My favorite memory of Pete was when Utah Phillips invited me to the Joe Hill Memorial in Salt Lake City in 1990. Pete, Earl Robinson, Utah, Faith Petric, and Joe Glazer were there. They were putting everybody up in the Hotel Perry which Utah remembered as a Skid Road flophouse that he used to haul drunks out of when he was working with Ammon Hennacy at Joe Hill House. In the ensuing years it had been gentrified and turned into a posh upscale hostelry. At the close of the weekend the Committee who had staged this memorial invited us all down to dinner in the fancy restaurant off the lobby. We walked in without a reservation of course, and asked for a table for 18 (could have been more, I don't recall exactly). The staff immediately starting putting tables together and setting them for this unexpected influx. There was a large space cleared in the center where they placed the chairs out of the way well they rearranged everything. Pete immediately lined up the chairs and started to whistle POP GOES THE WEASEL leading our dinner party around in a game of musical chairs, Pete skipping with his hands behind his back. In Earl Robinsons autobiography there's a picture of the assembled performers from just after the show. If anyone has the book and could post that picture on FB I'd be grateful.

Mark Ross

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,mark-s
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 09:47 PM

May the rest of us be half as influential and committed .

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,stevesg
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 10:17 PM

I feel like part of me died.

there are no words

Goodbye and godspeed, Pete Seeger

s.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 11:09 PM

I heard the news this morning before I left home. I knew when I got to Mudcat tonight there would be a thread with many posts.

When I first started hearing Pete on the radio, it took me a long time to connect his name to the familiar voice. I don't know why that was: I'd certainly also heard his name many times. It may be because my parents didn't listen to folk music but to the great American songbook type of music, so mostly I heard Pete on my friends' radios.

I was lucky enough to see him a few times: in Boston, at the Newport Folk Festival (not in its early days but more recently) at Pawtucket, RI's, Labor and Ethnic Heritage Festival, and best of all in the small venue of my "home" music venue, Stone Soup Coffeehouse, where I got to talk to him briefly. At the Labor and Ethnic Heritage Festival and at the Newport Folk Festival, he strolled the grounds, banjo slung over his back, and it was comfortable saying, "Hi, good to see you!" to him.

Pete was the reason Stone Soup was founded. Scroll down to Joyce Katzberg's post at the lower left (next to the soup-pot-with-guitar graphic) on Stone Soup Coffeehouse's Founder's Page, here. http://www.stonesoupcoffeehouse.com/page1/FoundersVoices.html I wonder how many other folk venues Pete inspired.

He sang songs of peace, and now he will rest in peace. Thank you, Pete, for everything.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Mike B.
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 11:19 PM

I was disappointed at the relatively tepid response to the news about Pete Seeger by the same broadcast and cable TV networks which recently went into hysterical overdrive when Justin Bieber was arrested - a sad commentary on the decline of journalistic values and priorities in the US over the past 20 years or so.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: mark gregory
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 11:20 PM

see the UK Guardian Obit at

http://www.theguardian.com/music/2014/jan/28/pete-seeger-dies-aged-94

regards

mark

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: mark gregory
Date: 28 Jan 14 - 11:34 PM

see also French newspaper Le Monde obit

Mort de Pete Seeger, icône du folk américain

and Melbourne newspaper the Age obit

the Age

m.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 12:02 AM

And I just saw this blog about Pete. http://www.rifuture.org/rest-in-peace-pete-seeger-thanks-for-making-rhode-island-a-better-place.html Sandywoods, mentioned there, has already organized a Valentine's Day memorial concert.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Big (sad) Ballad Singer
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 12:16 AM

I dreamed I saw ol' Pete tonight
alive as you and me.
"But Pete," said I, "I heard you're dead."
"I never died" said he.

He never will.

Pete, you told us all to "take it easy, but take it." Same to you, friend. Go get the rest you've earned.

Subject: Obit: Pete
From: GUEST,Alan in Royston
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 06:40 AM

Sad news today.


http://uk.news.yahoo.com/pete-seeger-iconic-figure-folk-music-dies-072511407.html#PizBTVn

---

Moved from a new thread. --Mod

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 10:50 AM

Ah, what a loss, what a loss. Not tragic, exactly, after all, we had him for almost a century, but what an empty place on my life's record shelf.
My dad was into people who were being blacklisted in the 50's. Pete's are my versions of all the childrens' songs, those that I still sing today and those that will remain forgotten till I hear a few notes of them, when I will remember them completely.
And that was way before I could get into any of his union songs, his civil rights songs, his life as a happy, outsinging atheist songs.
I will have to find all his records on mp3 now.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,deckman sans cookie
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 11:00 AM

He not only lit the way ... but he brought the matches. bob(deckman)nelson

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: voyager
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 11:06 AM

A few more comments on the life and music of Pete Seeger -

I'm worried now (but I won't be worried long) with Johnny Cash (1970)

Songs of the Civil War (my first listen to Pete Seeger) - 1960

How Can I Keep From Singing (1957)

My life flows on in endless song
Above earth's lamentation.
I hear the real, thought far off hymn
That hails the new creation
Above the tumult and the strife,
I hear the music ringing;
It sounds an echo in my soul
How can I keep from singing?
What through the tempest loudly roars,
I hear the truth, it liveth.
What through the darkness round me close,
Songs in the night it giveth.
No storm can shake my inmost calm
While to that rock I'm clinging.
Since love is lord of Heaven and earth
How can I keep from singing?
When tyrants tremble, sick with fear,
And hear their death-knell ringing,
When friends rejoice both far and near,
How can I keep from singing?
In prison cell and dungeon vile
Our thoughts to them are winging.
When friends by shame are undefiled,
How can I keep from singing?
-----------------------------------------------------------------
Pete Seeger helped to make this song fairly well-known in the
Folk-revival. He learned it from Doris Plenn, who had it from
Her North Carolina family. It can be found in SING OUT, Vol 7,
No 1, 1957.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Duane D.
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 11:38 AM

A little aside comment about "How Can I Keep From Singing" and Doris Plenn. Many of you probably know I work for Caroline Paton and Folk Legacy. Caroline was remembering how she and Sandy had a conversation with Pete in the mid-60s and told him they were buying a house in Sharon, Connecticut. He told them about Doris Plenn and that she was living in Sharon. After they settled in their home, they met Doris and learned additional information pertaining to the song. Folk Legacy is so full of folk music history and information. I'm trying to absorb all I can.

Duane.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,silver
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 11:48 AM

It's sad that we have lost Pete, but what a legacy he left us! I heartily agree with all the praise above.
I never met him, but he was kind enough to answer my letters several times. Imagine that! A world-famous man humble enough to answer fan mail in person, by hand! He must have spent a fortune on postage stamps.
The first time he wrote, it was on a piece of brown paper with a pressed autumn leaf glued to it. (Maybe Toshi helped him with that.) Simple, but thoughtful. I think of him as the best teacher I ever had.
Thanks, Pete, Precious Friend! "You gave me hope, not just the old soft soap".

Ulla

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 01:32 PM

Here's another video of Pete on the Johnny Cash Show, doing Bring 'em Home.
I love this.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: KT
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 04:31 PM

Last night I had a conversation with someone about Pete. Among other things I found myself saying, "Yes, I know he was 94.   Yes, I know he had a good long life. Yes, I KNOW we knew he wouldn't be with us forever. ---But still---There was just something so nice, so comforting, somehow, to know that he still walked among us."


Later, at a large gathering for a birthday celebration, I was asked to sing a song in remembrance of Pete. I knew that this was not a crowd of musicians, but since the song was to honor Pete, I told the group that it was important that everyone sing along. And they all did. Long may you live, Pete, in your music and in our hearts.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: RoyH (Burl)
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 04:41 PM

I know that there was talk a while ago about nominating Pete for the Nobel Peace Prize. I can't think of a more worthy recipient. Can he be awarded it posthumously?

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Nancy King
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 05:05 PM

Last night, on the ABC news program, there was a short but very nice piece (which I can't seem to find on line) about Pete's passing. It opened with film and commentary about how Pete would often stop singing in the middle of a chorus, and listen to the audience, who of course kept on singing. At the end of the piece, the commentator (whose name I can't recall) showed the same film again, and said something to the effect that now Pete really had stopped singing, but it was all right, since the rest of us would keep on singing. I thought that was one of the best thoughts I've heard about Pete's legacy.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 05:51 PM

That comment about the rest of us still singing has me crying over again.

The outpouring isn't limited to us intense folkie types. I've been asked many times by members of my congregation how we would honor Pete in our service this week, and I've been fielding calls and e-mails from lots of ministerial colleagues on what Pete Seeger songs might fit in with whatever their service topics are for the week. Since Pete was a Unitarian Universalist, at our congregation we decided to get everyone singing "Turn, Turn, Turn" (we'll line it out, just like he did), and in March we'll do a whole service dedicated to him.

Silver, one of the things that made Pete special was that he always answered letters. Sometimes not for months or a year, but he always answered them.

Dan

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: bobad
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 06:48 PM

Not all the remembrances of ol' Pete are hagiographic:

"Seeger never really did abandon the dream of communism, despite the inconvenient fact that it had long since (starting around 1918) transformed into a pitiful nightmare. So it was unsurprising that in 1995 he would provide an effusive blurb for a book of poetry written by Tomas Borge, the brutal secret police chief and interior minister of Sandinista Nicaragua ("An extraordinary collection of poems and prose"). When it was reported in 2007 that he had, at long last, written a piece of anti-Stalin doggerel, the New York Times leapt to his defense, noting that Seeger--who was not only quiet on the crimes of Stalin, but the invasions of Hungary and Czechoslovakia and the various gulags dotting the Soviet empire--had previously distanced himself from the Kremlin mountaineer:

"Mr. Seeger, 87, made such statements years ago, at least as early as his 1993 book, Where Have All the Flowers Gone? In the book, he said in a 1995 interview with the New York Times Magazine, he had apologized "for following the party line so slavishly, for not seeing that Stalin was a supremely cruel misleader."

As I noted at the time, this is an astonishingly lazy defense: at least as early as 1993, a mere forty years after Stalin's death? And perhaps I am expecting a bit too much, but it seems slightly understated to describe a man responsible for tens of millions of deaths as a "cruel misleader."

The Death of 'Stalin's Songbird'

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 07:18 PM

As I wrote above, I cherish the hand-written form letter he sent me.

I sent him 90th birthday greetings from one of the folk organisations he visited in 1963 on the Australian leg of his world trip. As a reminder of his visit I included in the letter scans of our coverage of his visit which my predecessors had sent him after he went home. The letter is in the club's archives, but I kept the envelope cos he addressed it to me!

He also sent us (me!!) a copy of his latest book (huge amount of postage!) which we reviewed in our magazine & on the national Folk List & lots of us bought our own copies.

sandra

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 08:01 PM

It's interesting that the McCarthy era is still with us, those, who self-righteous, slavishly sport a doctrinaire attitude about anti-communism prevail with misinformation and disinformation about one of the most intelligent and compassionate folk singers who ever lived, starting a huge folk music movement. In the early days of the Popular Front and the Second World War when Franklin Roosevelt called Stalin "Uncle Joe", it was clear that nobody really understood what Stalin was doing, later, when it was found out that he was a monster, people turned away from the Communist Party and Pete gave up Stalin a long time ago. Pete had criticized the apparatchiks of the USSR, to the extent that he didn't even honor Gorbachev. Still, the calumny prevails where misinformed slanderous individuals on this website insist on tarnishing his reputation by right-wing propaganda and smear tactics as if they really knew what Pete believed.

I know how he felt about this because he recently told me about it on the phone.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: kendall
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 08:24 PM

Pete was NOT a Stalinist! He was a member of the communist party for a short while, but people like Stalin convinced him that their brand of Communism sucked and he got out. Don't forget, he also served with honor in the US Army!

No greater American ever lived.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 08:31 PM

Yes, it sounds like lies to me. Is this the Michael Moynihan whose Wiki states"In the 1990s, Moynihan was frequently identified as a fascist or neo-fascist by some critics and fans. Moynihan accepted these descriptions with reservations in the 1990s, but in the 2000s dismissed them as inapplicable buzzwords used by "anti-this and anti-that activist types" and denounced the far right."?

It's an Obituary thread.
As a moderator, if you want a debate, take it elsewhere.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 10:08 PM

Here's another link. http://www.heraldnews.com/article/20140128/NEWS/140126180/?tag=1

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 10:22 PM

Fresh Air replayed this 1985 interview with Pete the other night.

Click here

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Dan Schatz
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 10:41 PM

Fantastic interview. Truly fantastic.

Dan

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: mark gregory
Date: 29 Jan 14 - 10:54 PM

ABC New Obit and video is now online

see

http://abcnews.go.com/Entertainment/wireStory/folk-singer-activist-pete-seeger-dies-ny-22259978

m

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 06:08 AM

I was intrigued by this paragraph in Tuesday's New York Times obituary of Pete :
"As engagements dried up, the Weavers disbanded, though they reunited occasionally in the mid-1950s. After the group recorded an advertisement for Lucky Strike cigarettes, Mr. Seeger left, citing his objection to promoting tobacco use."
I know Pete didn't like smoking at his performances but is that really the reason for his departure from the Weavers at that particular time?

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 06:43 AM

Roy. Nobel peace Prize. I'm fairly certain that nominees have to be living to qualify. So we've left it a bit late. Let's canonise him instead.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Derek Schofield
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 07:27 AM

Guest - Lucky Strike - that's the story in David King Dunaway's biography of Pete - start of chapter 9 in my copy.
Derek

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 11:37 AM

"As engagements dried up, the Weavers disbanded, though they reunited occasionally in the mid-1950s. After the group recorded an advertisement for Lucky Strike cigarettes, Mr. Seeger left, citing his objection to promoting tobacco use."
I know Pete didn't like smoking at his performances but is that really the reason for his departure from the Weavers at that particular time?"

Actually Pete's departure was a long time coming. In Las Vegas, at a crucial point in the career of the Weavers, Pete Cameron, the first official manager of the Weavers (Toshi was never given credit) decided that they should limit their activities to safe appearances but Pete wanted them to sing at a union rally but the other members apparently objected to that.
Pete was incensed and well the story is that he broke a glass table in the hotel room where they were staying. It's possible that it happened because Pete was human and had a rare temper as we all do. I don't blame him, however for being pissed.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 11:39 AM

P.S......he was right about the smoking issue.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: elfcape
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 02:45 PM

It was wonderful to hear Pete's voice on that Fresh Air interview from so long ago. Most interesting to me was how seriously he took the effect of his refusal to take the 5th. Even so many years later he still felt that entire episode was damaging to his career. Looking at him now, it seems unbelievable that he would have found a comfortable place on television or the entertainment circuit. For me, as a child of the 50s, I cannot imagine Pete's style fitting into any of those places.

Yesterday Dudley Laufman's daughter, Heidi, posted this wonderful story from Scott Alarik's book about Pete in Spain. Probably not news to many here but nice to recall. The man had balls:

THE POWER OF SONG

In the 1970s, Pete Seeger was invited to sing in Barcelona, Spain. Francisco Franco's fascist government, the last of the dictatorships that started World War II, was still in power but declining. A pro-democracy movement was gaining strength and to prove it, they invited America's best-known freedom singer to Spain. More than a hundred thousand people were in the stadium, where rock bands had played all day. But the crowd had come for Seeger. As Pete prepared to go on, government officials handed him a list of songs he was not allowed to sing. Pete studied it mournfully, saying it looked an awful lot like his set list. But they insisted: he must not sing any of these songs. Pete took the government's list of banned songs and strolled on stage. He held up the paper and said, "I've been told that I'm not allowed to sing these songs." He grinned at the crowd and said, "So I'll just play the chords; maybe you know the words. They didn't say anything about *you* singing them." He strummed his banjo to one song after another, and they all sang. A hundred thousand defiant freedom singers breaking the law with Pete Seeger, filling the stadium with words their government did not want them to hear, words they all knew and had sung together, in secret circles, for years. What could the government do? Arrest a hundred thousand singers? It had been beaten by a few banjo chords and the fame of a man whose songs were on the lips of the whole world. - Scott Alarik, Revival

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 09:49 PM

thanks for posting the story, elfcape, it was news to me

sandra

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: mark gregory
Date: 30 Jan 14 - 10:48 PM

Anthony Ashbolt from the School of Humanities and Social Inquiry University of Wollongong wrote an interesting article about Pete in The Conversation

see http://theconversation.com/pete-seeger-a-life-of-song-and-the-power-of-we-22595

cheers

Mark

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 09:32 AM

This in my opinion is one of the best tribute articles I've seen on Pete.

best tribute IMHO

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Beachcomber
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 12:21 PM

I remember listening to the Weavers singing "Goodnite Irene" on radio, away back. I didn't know then that I was listening to voices, among which was that of a man who would still be singing that song 60 years later as well as so many other great songs. His political philosophy was also, basically, unchanging.
OK, so Pete was a member of the Communist Party back then but it was his Marxist belief that led him to that. How can anyone say that he and others who had similar Marxist beliefs sought the deaths of those who opposed them ideologically ? How could Pete or they have known about the atrocities of the Stalinist regime ? Who among us ordinary people could have sorted out the propaganda from the truth back in the 40s/50s ? Pete believed in the sharing of wealth, but he was living in a most capitalistic society and unable to change things to the way that socialism prefers.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Bill D
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 12:34 PM

The wikipedia article on Pete has been updated. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pete_Seeger

with links way at the bottom to odd stuff you can find... such as video at archive.org of an early banjo teaching session.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Elmore
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 01:55 PM

Cartoon on Bartcop.com. Guy checking out the want ads. Ad reads: New Pete Seeger needed. Must start immediately.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Cool Beans
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 05:39 PM

I started playing guitar in high school and learned a lot from Pete's LP and book "The Folksinger's Guitar Guide." By the summer before senior year of college I was competent enough to teach guitar and lead songs at a summer camp for teenagers. Flash forward about 20 years and I'm interviewing Pete about what he'll be playing at a concert in Detroit. He sings a bit of the song "It really isn't garbage till you throw it away." Good song, I say. Did you write it? No, he says, it's by a singer-songwriter I know named Dan Einbender. Oh, I say, he was one of my students at summer camp...

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: ex-pat
Date: 31 Jan 14 - 06:54 PM

Bought How to play the 5 string banjo by Pete Seeger in Manchester UK, 1964. Have some great old Folkways albums of his too.
Farewell and Peace always old friend. I still have your book.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 01 Feb 14 - 11:06 AM

"How could Pete or they have known about the atrocities of the Stalinist regime ? Who among us ordinary people could have sorted out the propaganda from the truth back in the 40s/50s ? Pete believed in the sharing of wealth, but he was living in a most capitalistic society and unable to change things to the way that socialism prefers."

Good point. In the era of the Popular Front, many people belonged to the CPUSA and later changed their minds when the found out the truth about Stalin. Some, vindictively, used this to persecute others or inform on people to be brought before HUAC, people like Burl Ives and Elia Kazan. Pete forgave them as most everyone bought into the "Uncle Joe" ruse.
Pete has apologized for his early support of Stalin many times, displaying a humility to be admired, not to be denigrated. Still, there are those who would smear Pete for his early mistakes because they have a political axe to grind, enjoying the defamation of a noble and productive character in the name of their self-righteous egotism and blind malevolence.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: LadyJean
Date: 01 Feb 14 - 10:59 PM

In the seventies, he came to Pittsburgh to sing with the American Wind Symphony on the Fourth of July. The Symphony played on a floating stage on the Allegheny river. It was so beautiful to sit while the setting sun turned the river gold and silver and listen to him sing those extraordinary songs about ordinary people.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,gillymor
Date: 02 Feb 14 - 08:19 AM

The PRI show Living on Earth replayed "Remembering an Afternoon with Pete Seeger" yesterday in which Pete talked about the environment, the Clearwater, communism and other subjects.
Click here
Scroll down to 3rd segment to hear Pete (the rest of the show was interesting, as well) and scroll down further for transcript.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Elmore
Date: 02 Feb 14 - 11:51 AM

There are a few things in this world you can depend on. I used to watch the CBS show, Sunday Morning every week, but got out of the habit. I watched it this week and, sure enough, there was an excellent, if short, segment about Pete. Maybe I'll start watching the show again.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Feb 14 - 12:20 PM

I find it ironic that finally his life is being celebrated as it should be when for so many years he was vilified by not only the reactionary right but many so-called liberals as well.

That's the way it is with any decent American who takes a courageous stand for the betterment of his or her government.

Why do brave people have to die before their accomplishments can be acknowledged?

It was the same with MLK, lionized after his death and now trivialized by turning him into a cardboard saint. With Pete, he spoke eloquently about the folly of the Vietnam War and others, today, speak out about the insanity of Iraq and Afghanistan and are being largely ignored, especially by the so-called Media.

Pete's legacy to us has to be that we remember what these American heroes had to go through before we could hear their messages. Even so, Pete's life was a life worth living.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 02 Feb 14 - 12:25 PM

P.S., the same above goes for Woody Guthrie. It's a case of "now you tell me!"

Or as one poet described it succinctly in an early edition of the Hobo News,
"Throw your bouquets while I'm living, do your knocking when I'm dead." :)

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: ChanteyLass
Date: 02 Feb 14 - 07:38 PM

PBS has been reprising the American Masters episode Pete Seeger: The Power of Song. I caught it this afternoon. You can check your local listings to see if it will be on your local PBS channel.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 03 Feb 14 - 12:02 PM

The best part of that documentary for me was when Toshi told Pete hearing that a man was coming to a concert to kill him, "Peter, you've got to sit down and talk to that man".
Pete did and they resolved their conflict peaceably. That was the real Toshi Seeger.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: KT
Date: 03 Feb 14 - 01:32 PM

KVMR -NOW! - tune in, listen live - if you'd like to listen to a conversation between Pete Seeger and Utah Phillips.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Bettynh
Date: 04 Feb 14 - 11:19 AM

I've been remembering Pete a lot recently, and it's been memories of my lifetime.

1963, Dad was messing around with his latest technotoy, a reel-to-reel tape recorder. He set it up in front of the tv and recorded air-to-air the WGBH broadcast of Boston's arts festival from Boston Common. Pete, singing and telling songs and stories. We played it over and over and transcribed some of the songs. The Girl Scouts of the area learned "Little Boxes" and "Mrs. McGrath" from that tape. "Little Boxes" wasn't ironic to us at the time - it was a description of our lives.

1967, Dad and I got to go to Ford Hall Forum in Boston. Pete was irate that he had been censored off the Smothers Brothers show. I had been watching him Saturday afternoons on tv for years and the whole thing made no sense to me at the time.

1987. My twins were 5. Dad was retired and had a beard now, a lot like Pete's. Lawrence common, the 75th anniversary of the Bread and Roses strike. Dad was watching from the edge of the crowd, standing, and there were several men of his age there, several with that same beard. I wish I'd known then that Dad and Pete had been on Saipan at the same time. The kids had climbed a statue and sat on top to watch Pete.

2002. The National Storytelling Festival. Harlan, one of the twins now 20, and I saw Pete. His voice was fractured, but the crowd sang well. It was a bit sad, but Pete was still Pete. Harlan did the driving home through DC sniper stories and with "Zen and the Art of Motorcycle Maintenance" on the tape recorder.

Through it all, there were records and tapes and radio programs.

Thanks Pete, we loved you.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Bob Coltman
Date: 04 Feb 14 - 12:39 PM

Two things to add to what I wrote earlier.

First, amid the celebrations of Pete's extraordinary life and career in which his broadest impact was made with political and other singer-songwriter material, it's less often mentioned what an extraordinary traditional-style musician he was. Though he preferred to be called, as is correct, a singer of traditional songs, he had the style down pat when he wanted.

His best work in this line is still his first LP, "Darling Corey" (Folkways, since reprinted with Goofing-Off Suite), but it's well to remember he re-embraced the traditional for his wonderful American Ballads and Folk Songs LPs right in the middle of his most politically active period.

You only had to hear his astonishing recreation of Kentuckian Walter Williams' banjo spectacular, "East Virginia," or "Darling Corey," "John Riley" or "Danville Girl" to hear what early traditional song meant to him. It buoyed him all during his career, even as he turned to many other kinds of songs.

Second, I think few remember what an startling unsung role he played in the early folk movement during the 1950s as a true "Johnny Appleseed"-by-mail. He conducted at his own expense (when he had all too little money himself), a tremendous correspondence linking up young folkies, me among them, with singing weekends and other gatherings, and putting us in touch with one another. His practice was to send on what he received from one and swap back something he got from another, for an exciting cross-fertilization when folk singers were still as rare as hen's teeth, and we all scarcely knew what we were trying to do. Kind of an early internet.

Still realizing what a blow his loss is.

Bob

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,harriet jerusha korim
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 10:12 AM

The past days remind me I'm part of an extended family, grieving the loss and celebrating the life of our musical brother, pop or grandpa or great-grandpa, depending how old you are... And all the sharing of photos, anecdotes, songs and videos are like food and drink we would share if we were sitting shiva together.

The kerfluffle about memorials got me thinking what I would love to see is a day of local, global all-ages truly participatory stone-soup potlucks, community sings and dances FOR PETE'S SAKE on May 3.

Remembering long-ago and recent encounters, but even more just feeling the resonance of Pete's presence, his voice, humor, imagination, intelligence, open-heartedness. And so many songs, including ones I heard him sing live and haven't heard or thought of for years, like "Farewell little Fishes" and "Maple Syrup Time" (soon coming):

"...I'll send this song to Scott and Helen [Nearing], up in Maine where they are dwellin'
Hoping they don't mind a little advice in rhyme.
As in life or revolution, rarely is there a quick solution,
Anything worthwhile takes a little time.
We boil and boil and boil and boil it all day long..."

That advice also resonates in Pete's singing of Jacob's Ladder http://youtu.be/n7d6ATNyA98 and in a verse I made up and tacked on to our singing of Steve Earle's great '06 tribute "Steve's Hammer (for Pete)" http://youtu.be/wx9SGI97wuU :

"One of these days I'm gonna pass this hammer on
to a little kid who's listening to our song
'cause life is short, but the struggle's long
it takes generations to right these wrongs
One of these days I'm gonna pass this hammer on."

with gratitude from Jerusha and The Beat Greens...

what never dies "goes on to organize"--

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Elmore
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 10:55 AM

Bettynh: Your post yesterday at 11:19 brought back a lot of memories. I was fortunate to have seen Pete's appearance at Boston Common in 1963,which drew an enormous crowd, and Pete gave an electrifying (not electric) performance. The Ford Hall Forum appearance in 1967 was unusual because it gave Pete a chance to explain himself, rather than be explained by others. Finally, by 1987 in Lawrence, Pete's voice was pretty far gone, but his performance gave my son the opportunity to understand what Pete was all about. Thanks for helping me to recall these wonderful events , Elmore.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: voyager
Date: 05 Feb 14 - 03:16 PM

The more we go 'back to the well' of Pete Seeger's life in music, the cooler is the water, the more nourishing is the drink. Hope this thread goes on forever....

You've Got to Walk That Lonesome Valley - Pete Seeger and Doc Watson

voyager

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Fred McCormick
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 06:04 AM

When you've watched it make sure you catch the awesome clip of John Hurt singing Lonesome Valley, which is advertised on the same page. Pete doesn't join in that one but he's there in the background, as is Hedy West.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Northerner
Date: 06 Feb 14 - 01:27 PM

A wonderful performer! Wish I'd had the opportunity to see him perform. RIP Pete.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 26 Apr 14 - 07:21 AM

Several posts up, there's a great story about Pete Seeger singing (or, rather, not singing) in Barcelona in the late days of the Franco regime. The story is taken from a book by Scott Alarik. But that book is a novel; does anyone know whether what's described there actually happened? I ask because all my efforts to search for that story on the web lead to Alarik's novel; I'd have thought a great story like that would have been told elsewhere over the 40 years since the events it describes.

The David Dunaway biography of Seeger (How Can I Keep From Singing) discusses the tour of Spain on page 298. It lists three songs Spanish censors prohibited him from singing; it also says "He knew he couldn't sing --- and didn't try --- the songs of the Spanish Civil War...." It says police cancelled his concert at a university in Barcelona. But that's it. No mention of his playing forbidden songs on the banjo, the audience doing the singing.

I also found this on the web, written by Seeger's friend, the Spanish singer Raimon, at http://cultura.elpais.com/cultura/2014/01/28/actualidad/1390945415_202516.html

Quise convencerle, con mi mujer, Analisa, de que viniera a España a cantar. Como muchos de los artistas progresistas que entonces entendían que estando Franco no debían venir, él dijo que prefería no hacerlo; le convenció finalmente el argumento de que si ellos no venían la gente que vivía aquí pensaría que lo que había por esos mundos era el universo cultural carca que nos llegaba en ese momento.

Actuó en Terrassa el 7 de febrero de 1971. Yo estaba programado también, pero solo le permitieron cantar a él. Siguió en San Sebastián, pero lo prohibieron en Madrid y en la Escuela Industrial de Barcelona; pudo actuar otra vez en Sevilla. Yo traduje las letras de sus canciones y se alojó en nuestra casa. Desde entonces establecimos mucho contacto y en 1976, muerto Franco, vino a cantar a Madrid y Barcelona.

My Spanish is none too good, but it's clear that Raimon does not tell the story Alarik tells, and, again, it's such a good story that it surprises me the Raimon doesn't tell it. So, does anyone have any pre-Alarik references to the Barcelona story?

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Thomas Stern
Date: 27 Apr 14 - 12:48 AM

In the MAY 2014 issue of THE CATHOLIC WORKER there is a tribute to
Pete Seeger by BUD COURTNEY.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,.gargoyle
Date: 27 Apr 14 - 09:54 PM

Enough already!

This thread needs a little balance:
He also celebrated a form of government that was responsible for the execution of tens of millions of innocent people and tortured e

ven more

es, IMHO, Pete Seeger was not patriot. He sang like he was for the poor and downtrodden, but in reality, he was a lover of big government. He most likely loved Obama, our beloved Dictator-in-chief. Pete Seeger loved seeing people on the government dole, living on the Democrat plantation of liberalism. He was totally clueless about the entrepreneurial spirit and freedom and liberty.
The sweetness of the candy coated bitter truth has carried on, and on....

Some snippets gathered from across the web:

Seegar
..was just another Dennis Rodman type political whore, the only difference is he carried a banjo rather than a B-ball.

Pete Seeger was the champion of left-wing socialism which does nothing but keep the poor downtrodden and on the government dole. It probably would have been a good thing if Peter Seeger really had to work at a 40-hr a week job and learn something about capitalism


Just another rich elite Communist that could sing a neat little ditty. He celebrated the form of government that executed tens of millions of people and tortured just as many.



Personally, I think he knew he had been duped and is why he kept such a low profile.


. 50 million people wiped out in Stalin's purges


Yes, Seeger was a useful idiot. He parroted the Stalin line for decades and excused the Soviet Union atrocities. He was against our entrance into WWll until Hitler invaded the Soviet Union and Stalin ordered an about face from all the US commies.

The lefties posting above haven't a clue about the communist infiltration of our government and other institutions during the 30s, 40s and 50s. Most of them have never heard of Whittaker Chambers or Elizabeth Bentley. Perhaps they believe that Alger Hiss and the Rosenbergs were innocent. I am sure they never read any of the contents of the Venona files, the KGB files or the Mitrokhin Archives. They surely never listened to the interviews of ex-KGB or FBI agents who were active at that time. I am sure that they are unaware that New Dealers like John Patton Davies, Harold Glasser, Lauchlin Currie, Laurence Duggan, Alger Hiss, Duncan Lee, Irving Goff, Owen Lattimore, Henry Wallace, Harry Dexter White, Victor Perlo, Lee Pressman, John Stewart Service, and about 400 other FDR and Truman hands were indeed working for ole Uncle Joe.

Pete Seegar is a sad product of the leftist media which for 60 years have pounded the American public with one simple message: Joe McCarthy bad -- Commie "patriots" good.


Recall that it was ...
Seeger who was the most distraught and tried to halt the proceedings, when Dylan decided to go electric


Stalin's Songbird"


Seeger joined the Communist Party in 1934 and worked for Stalin until the early 50s when he claimed he left the CPUSA. Stalin died in 1953.


http://variety.com/2014/music/news/pete-seeger-dead-folk-legend-1201073804/

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Big Mick
Date: 28 Apr 14 - 10:12 AM

GUEST Gerry, I can tell you this. Pete told me the story himself while he, Toshi, Tinya and I were having a bite to eat at his kitchen table. He was reminiscing on visiting Franco's Spain and some of the things he had to do to outsmart the censors. This was a year and a half ago or so. He was animated and quite specific about the details.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Apr 14 - 11:02 AM

It's amazing to me that we have John Birchers in our midst on Mudcat.

Gargoyle, you are completely clueless about the Left. This latest isn't about balance,
it's just blatant smearing.

Enough already indeed!

"Pete Seegar is a sad product of the leftist media "

You can't even spell his name correctly so why should anyone listen to you?

The media Leftist? That's a joke. No, the media is reactionary Republican.

We can take back our media by:
1. supporting alternative factual media
2.   We can debunk the garbage spilled by Fox News and CNN
3.   We can support reliable sources for our information
4.   We can articulate our vision for a better world by:
      A. Supporting peace groups that are actually doing something useful
      B. Support Occupy Wall Street in it's latest incarnation (yes, it's still here)
      C. We can report history accurately concerning the Left Wing
      D. We can list Pete's numerous accomplishments such as:
            1. Cleaning the Hudson River
            2. Spawning the folk music revival without Pete....no Mudcat
            3. Celebrating his appeal to humanity by stopping Vietnam war,
            4. Remembering his courageous fight against Jim Crow
            5. Giving permission to anyone to learn to play and sing regardless of
                what they believe their musical ability is.
            6. Reaching children through his stories and songs
            7. Being positive about humanity in spite of Republican negativity.
I think we can all add to this list.

If it weren't for Pete I doubt many of us would be here on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 28 Apr 14 - 02:51 PM

Pete always called himself a communist with a small c. Stalin was not a real communist but a dictator. The image of Jesus would probably be more in line with a true definition of communist. That's why Woody Guthrie wrote his song about Jesus.

The Left Wing movement in the early days of the century was responsible for:
1. Civil Rights for black people
2. Women's rights and women's suffrage
3. Decent pay for a day's work......labor unions
4. Freedom of speech
5. Protesting wars of imperialism
6. Moving FDR to implement social benefits
7. Social Security

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 28 Apr 14 - 11:40 PM

Since Gargoyle's remarks were responded to they'll stay put, but with Frank's responses it helps to show future readers the scope of the story - what Pete was up against at times.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 03:01 AM

Gargoyle makes a valid point, and it would be a shame if his remarks were to be deleted. It's absolutely true that Pete Seeger was a communist, and that he supported Stalin. So did MacColl. It's wrong to whitewash this - both Seeger and MacColl supported Stalin without reservation.

We in the West have been brought up to demonize Stalin as a hateful dictator - but when we demonize people, we shut ourselves off from understanding what they were all about. Stalin was the leader of the Soviet Union from the 1920s until he died in 1953. If he was such a demon, why did he hold power for so long? Could it be that he actually accomplished many things that were a benefit to the citizens of the Soviet Union? Could it be that Seeger and MacColl had good reason to support Stalin?

The older I get, the more I begin to suspect that there really are no "bad guys." We all have our own truths and our own interests, and those truths and interests are often in conflict with those of other people. And most of the time, neither side is completely right or completely wrong. In fact, many times there is no right or wrong - only "different."

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 03:52 AM

"both Seeger and MacColl supported Stalin without reservation."
Not just them - their generation of social improvers and those of the left were brought up to idolise Stalin - members of my family included.
I know of people who wept when they learned of his death.
The Russian Revolution was seen as a workers revolution and the new Soviet State was regarded as the first Workers State.
Intellectuals like economists like Sidney and Beatrice Webb wrote huge tomes in praise of Stalinist Russia, with books like 'Soviet Communism, A New Civilization'.
The Dean of Canterbury, Hewlett Johnson wrote 'The Socialist Sixth of the World', an extremely popular work praising what was happening in Stalinist Russia.
Reports of what was happening in Russia were either regarded as "breaking eggs to make an omelette" or simply as propaganda.
It wasn't until Khrushchev's speech to Congress in 1956 that the cracks in Stalinist adoration began to appear, and even then it took time to sink in.
There is no doubt that the 1917 revolution brought about massive improvements in feudalist Russia - it's often forgotten that writers such as Tolstoy were writing about "Stalin's Gulags" in the 19th century, only in those days they were Tsarist.
It's always easy to be smug in hindsight.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 11:00 AM

Any moderator that would delete Gargoyle's comments would be doing so,without cause, and IMHO, in breach of their duties as mods. He attacked no one personally and simply expressed his point of view on Pete's activities. Like Joe, I find merit in some of it, disagree with most of it. Like Frank and Jim, I think it demonstrates a lack of understanding of the times. But it is nothing more than his opinion, and he expressed it well and without attacking anyone personally. So respond well as Frank and Jim did, but don't even consider deletion.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 11:28 AM

I've certainly seen it discussed elsewhere, and can't find any valid reason for deleting it. Although I never met the man, I'm absolutely positive Pete would agree, having been a target of censors for stating inconvenient opinions... although he'd probably appreciate his name being spelled correctly consistently.

The Stalin thing is as far as some folks get when they don't want to look further.

From the NPR link posted way above:

"As early as 1941, they found themselves blacklisted. Seeger was a member of the Communist Party in those early days, though he later said he quit after coming to understand the evils of Stalin."

Most people are capable of recognizing their mistakes and learning from them. Some people, however, like basing their philosophies on obvious mistakes because they're comfortable, and so can't easily admit they were wrong. You either embrace and live with mistakes or embrace and live with stupid.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 11:32 AM

Russia has always supported an authoritarian government traditionally and Stalin just replaced the Tsar.

Pete has apologized many times for his naiveté regarding Stalin, and it should be remembered that the United States supported Hitler at his inception and that the Graf Zepplin flew over our country with swastikas on display.

You ask how could people support Stalin and yet here in the US, we supported Stalin without reservation during the Yalta talks and "Uncle Joe" was considered an ally. It's amazing how soon we forget history.

I'm glad that Gargoyle expressed his viewpoint because I think it can be answered rationally.

The US has a history of supporting dictators, as FDR called them "our bastards".

I see the American people as essentially naive when it comes to this issue and it's so easy
to accuse someone of not being consistent in their lifetime.

Remember that Pete and Ewan were reacting to the invasion of the USSR by the Nazis
and this may have clouded their judgement about Stalin.

What this brings into focus for me is the futility of military actions as we see contemporary Hitlers and Stalins in our recent history in Asia and the Mid-East.

Not only did the 1917 revolution bring about improvements in feudalist Russia but the Communist Party of the US brought about significant improved changes in Civil Rights, Unions, Women's suffrage and equality. Many of the CPUSA members and "fellow travelers" were completely naive about Stalin but this doesn't preclude the good work that they did.

I was never a member but I recall the Marxist rule, in this case, Groucho who said,
"I would never join any club that would have me as a member."

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 11:47 AM

Those of us who have listened to Pete Seeger's words about his participation in those days may be accepting the story as he wants to tell it, but I haven't come across any information about his actual support of Stalin, or anything that discusses how long such support did extend once he was aware of Stalin's activities as far as murdering his own people. I respect Frank's opinion and was responding to that when I made my remarks. Gargoyle is routinely deleted, usually in the BS threads, but lets not pretend that his tendency for bombast and overt crudeness has never been removed from music threads as well.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 05:20 PM

Pete was one of many - including arguably, on of America's finest writers, John Steinbeck, who visited Russia at the height of Stalin's power and came back with glowing reports of what was happening there.
It needs to be remembered that Senator Joe McCarthy was putting anybody left of centre on trial for being 'Un- American' - including Seeger
This also included imprisoning those who refused to grass up their friends.
I met Pete once in Ewan and Peggy's home, and was proud to have shaken his hand - not a sign of blood anywhere that I could see.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 05:21 PM

Gargoyles remarks show that he does not understand the economics of the consumer capitalist society.
"Pete Seeger was the champion of left-wing socialism which does nothing but keep the poor downtrodden and on the government dole. It probably would have been a good thing if Peter Seeger really had to work at a 40-hr a week job and learn something about capitalism"
the government dole, is an indirect way of subsidising local capitalism[small businesses such as local shops and pubs] Gargoyle have you ever heard of Keynsian economics? Keynsian econmics has nothing to do with communism.
Gargoyl your post has displayed your ignorance of the consumer society and how capitalism works efficiently.
to paraphrase Martin Carthy" who is this berk.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: The Sandman
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 05:31 PM

"Enough already!

This thread needs a little balance:
He also celebrated a form of government that was responsible for the execution of tens of millions of innocent people and tortured e" so Mr Gargoyle, how about the millions of innocent people murdered by different capitalists, Gargoyle, your remarks are not balanced at all, millions of people have been murdered by both capitalists and communists.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 06:52 PM

"If he was such a demon, why did he hold power for so long?"

Oh my, Joe... it's a matter of record how he obtained and held power. I find it hard to believe that you really wonder about that.

Pete Seeger did espouse 'communism' early on in the sense it is accurately explained . He did not and would not agree with Marxism/Leninism as practiced in its perverted form by Stalin.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Big Mick
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 07:13 PM

SRS, the fact that Gargoyle has been deleted is not relevant to my comment. The rules we use are spare and simple to understand. Applied evenly they will work well. You may not use personal attacks. You may attack viewpoints with all the vigor and bombast within you. If,garg, or anyone else crosses the line, they are deleted. His post attacked no one. The fact that he has in the past crossed the line is not relevant.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Bill D
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 08:11 PM

To add to my comment, and make a wider point: pointing to "communism" as a defining issue of what a person is or has promoted is not enough. It is important to be aware of HOW that person sees & uses the term.

Today, Republicans still 'claim' Abraham Lincoln as a proof that their party 'did the right thing' and is one right side of history, when the fact is that the parties have almost entirely changed positions since the Civil War. When the Dixiecrats rebelled against LBJ in 1965-68, the words changed basic reference.

   You might as well judge people by whether they claim to favor 'freedom'.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 08:27 PM

I wonder what was widely known about the gulags and pogroms during the lifetime of Stalin. Until Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's One Day in the Life of Ivan Denisovich was published in 1962, the atrocities of the Stalin Regime were not known in detail, and much of the condemnation of Stalin and the Soviets sounded a whole lot like anti-Communist propaganda.

If the loudest voice condemning Joe Stalin was Joe McCarthy, wouldn't you take all such condemnations with a grain of salt?

And there were no voices within the Soviet Union to condemn Stalin - they were all suppressed.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Jeri
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 09:00 PM

When I refer to the culture of Mudcat now being about trollery, this thread has become an example of that. Give up all the good to follow the troll...

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,Gerry
Date: 29 Apr 14 - 09:34 PM

Joe Offer, for what was widely known about Stalin long before 1962, see Andre Gide's 1936 book, Retour de l'U. R. S. S., also the 1949 book The God That Failed, edited by Richard Crossman. Also, Arthur Koestler's Darkness at Noon, 1940.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 01:25 AM

Another side-trip for this Obituary thread - trying to keep obit threads relatively respectful and letting the controversy be hashed out in another location. I know Joe doesn't always agree with me on that, or thinks I put too fine a point on it. But that is what I had in mind when I read Gargoyle's remarks, and this is all I have to say about it.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 02:22 AM

I think SRS is right.
It would be wrong to allow Stalin's crimes to act as a diversion in honouring those who were take in by what he did - it would mean our ignoring the contribution of millions upon millions of people who have enriched our lives in one way or another.
What - don't read the writings of John Steinbeck, Howard Fast, Upton Sinclair; don't visit The Globe Theatre because it was set up by Sam Wannamaker; or watch plays by Brecht, or never go to see a Charlie Chaplin film, and so ad ifinitum..... give us a break?
This nonsense has to end somewhere.
I have been trying for years to promote discussion on the work we did in MacColl's Critics Group - each time, up pops a 'Gargoyle' with a diversion.
Maybe those of us whose lives were touched by the withering hand of Thatcher, should boycott anybody who voted for her - don't think so really!
People who adopt this attitude invariably bring along another agenda, more often than not to do with the music rather than the politics.
Please don't let this happen to fine artist like Pete Seeger; whatever our feelings on his music, he was a great 'human' human being in every sense of the word.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 03:24 AM

Still, the fact that Seeger, MacColl, and others supported Stalin, is certainly a matter worthy of discussion. To my way of thinking, the facts are the facts, and shouldn't be withheld from an obituary.

I think no less of Seeger and MacColl because they were Communists, at least for part of their lives. I think it's proof of their idealism - and their ability to think "outside the box," if you will.

I spent my three years of military service studying East German Communists; and I developed a real respect for them, despite their Wall and other security procedures. Communism may be a failed ideal, but we have much to learn from this often-noble experiment.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 03:47 AM

I agree Joe
MacColl never hid his politics - in fact he 'wore it on his sleeve' - it was evident in the songs he wrote and it made him many enemies.
His politics, as with Pete's and all those of the left, was humanitarian based, and we spent many hours in the Critics Group discussing the political/social nature of traditional song.
The problem wasn't, with him, or anybody who worked with him, not in discussing politics, but in those who would prevent such discussion.
I've seen singers who have been booked to perform at clubs, specifically told, "We don't like political songs here" - sometimes extending the restriction to "contemporary" - or even "accompanied" songs.
I know the problems Ewan and Peggy had in putting together the album of political songs, 'The Angry Muse' for Argo (Decca) - those problems disappeared when they set up their own 'Blackthorn' label, and they could choose what they wanted, without restrictions.
Charles Parker always claimed that the BBC's decision not to make any more radio ballads following 'The Travelling People' was not, as they claimed, financial, but was due to the socio-political nature of their contents.
I simply can't understand why Pete's gentle humanitarianism should be a feature in any of this nonsense.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 04:29 AM

in my opinion, PETE SEEGER was a great ambassador for home made music, He was also a good entertainer and performer, personally I feel the uk revival has lacked someone of Seegers calibre. There have been some very good singers and performers,Seeger was a diplomat as well as a charismatic performer.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 10:23 AM

If gargoyle had not posted his comments we would likely have not had the very insightful and informative comments by Frank Hamilton and Jim Carroll. It was their defense of our friend, Pete that made some very important distinctions. My opinion is that it is not our job to control debate, rather it is our job to maintain the very spare rules Max has given us. Now, back to Pete.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 11:56 AM

BIG MICK,I always understood the purpose of moderators was to stop personal abuse trolling and flaming.
"Yes, Seeger was a useful idiot". is that not trolling and insulting the dead?

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 12:51 PM

it is not respectful to call Pete Seeger an idiot.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Jeri
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 02:10 PM

Personal abuse is personal, and is directed at someone who's expected to read it. I've heard Max say nothing about trolling/flaming. The problem is we've got a bunch of very easily led, inconsiderate people who'd rather have a knee-jerk reaction to what they object to than to stick to a particular subject.
Case #1: Pete Seeger and Stalin.
Case #2: what should/should not be deleted.

Enough people lack the ability to see the negative purpose their indignant posts will serve and just not respond.

One problem here is that we have a number of people who form a ready-made group of troll followers/feeders. You remove a trolling message, the trollerazzi just wait for the next one to poke them with the indignant stick. Just learn how to stop or at least start a different thread.

Nobody wants to be sentenced to making the world safe for easily provoked people with poor impulse control.

Last from me on this thread.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 02:21 PM

The problem isn't trolls, Dick Miles, it's the people who indignantly respond to trolls. What Gargoyle said, be it disrespectful or not, generated an interesting discussion on Pete Seeger and Stalinism. Outraged comments like yours add nothing to the discussion.
Once this discussion of Seeger and Stalinism has run its course, I may move the Stalinism messages into a new thread if it seems good to do so, but for now I think it's best to let the discussion go on without the outrage.

It is duly noted that the comments from Gargoyle were crude and insensitive and disrespectful. But an interesting discussion came out of his comments, so gargoyle's message will stand as it is.

In a discussion forum like this, the discussion is far more important than being beholden to taboos about not speaking ill of the dead.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Thomas Stern
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 04:57 PM

"useful idiot" see WIKIPEDIA:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Useful_idiot

Cheers, Thomas.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 05:24 PM

Joe, my comments were not outraged, I pointed out the lack of balance in Gargoyles comment. speaking ill of the dead a taboo?, no, to call Seeger an idiot is an insult, JOE,Answer this question is it n insult to call PeteSeeger an Idiot, it is irrelevant whether he is dead or alive. answer the question

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 05:39 PM

Dick Miles, as Thomas Stern aptly pointed out, the term "useful idiot" has a history behind it, and it is EXACTLY the correct term to describe Seeger, MacColl, and Americans and Europeans who were used by the Stalinists.

Yes, it is insulting - but it is the proper term....and I already stipulated that the comments from Gargoyle were "crude and insensitive and disrespectful."

So get over it.

-Joe Offer-

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: The Sandman
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 06:23 PM

JOE, What is all this" GET OVER IT",
am I not allowed to disagree with you?, neither have I indigantly responded to anything,I pointed out that both capitalists and so called "communists have murdered millions, for example Adolf Hitler a fascist who was virulently anti communist, likewise the dear old USA a non communist country.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stringsinger
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 06:42 PM

I don't think that it's as simple as that, Joe. I've known Pete for over forty years and he was not used by anyone, but was a clear thinker who might have gotten the Stalin thing wrong but was his own person, not subject to the Kremlin or any other monolithic country or group.
Pete left the Party and never returned.

Be very careful about whom you brand as being a "useful idiot". A pointed finger has three pointing back at you.

Would perhaps the term "useful idiot" be applied to Pope Pius XII? Just sayin'..........

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 06:43 PM

Funny that I should be considered the one who doesn't want to "speak ill of the dead" - this seemed to be a policy, it's something I picked up as a general trend at Mudcat. I thought you (Joe) favored back in the early years, and that members in general preferred it. Because of that perception I have on rare occasions tried to sort it out, letting criticism go into other related threads and the business of posting memories, obituary links and funeral information in the obit - the thread that outsiders are most likely going to land on when they use Google to look for a recently deceased musician.

There was hell to pay the last time this came up, a lot of folks coming in from all over creation deciding the take swings and sides and seemingly had no business here except to be nasty, as far as I could tell.

You guys sort it out. It's apparently above my pay grade.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 07:25 PM

Stringsinger and Good Soldier Schweik, do yourselves a favor and follow the link to the Wikipedia article on "useful idiot" and the history behind the term. Fellow Traveller is a term that has a parallel history, as does "Communist Dupe."

And yes, Frank, I think it's quite certain that Pope Pius XII was a "useful idiot" of Mussolini, and not all the horrible things people have accused him of. Thank you for that.

These were good, intelligent, capable people. No, they weren't idiots. I think, however, that they may have been blinded by their own innocence and idealism. Their failure, perhaps, was to trust too much and to believe too much in their fellow man. They failed to be cynical, and I think we need more of that kind of failure in this world.

-Joe-

Yes, Good Soldier Schweik, you are allowed to disagree with me....and I am allowed to disagree back. Despite your protestations to the contrary, you sound both outraged and indignant, and it's getting in the way of a sensible discussion. Get over it.

And yes, Frank, pointing a finger points three fingers back. I think of myself as the same sort of idealist as Pete Seeger, Ewan MacColl, and Pius XII. You can call me a "useful idiot" at times, and it's a badge I'll wear with pride. Idealism may be unrealistic, but it's a hell of a lot better than the alternative.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Big Mick
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 09:52 PM

I am not sure,where folks,got the idea that speaking ill of a dead public figure is taboo. Just as Frank has the right to state his opinion of Pete, one in which I mostly agree with, so garg has the right to give his opinion on the same public figure.

Dick Miles, criticizing the subject of a thread is not a personal attack. Criticizing, using ad hominem attacks is. Methinks you are splitting hairs and projecting a bit. If you read Joe's post carefully, and pay attention to the distinctions, you will understand the difference between criticism and personal attack.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 01 May 14 - 03:15 AM

This thread - like the Russian Revolution, seems to be getting bogged down in CULT OF PERSONALITY - another useful phrase to look up
It seems Dick 'protesteth too much' when it comes to "speaking ill of the dead" - he hasn't been backward in coming forward when it comes to giving his somewhat ill-informed opinions on MacColl in the past; nor have far too many other people.
Sure - let's talk about whether they were taken in by Stalin, or whether they were "elitist" or "arrogant", or "rude to people"..... or all the other personal (and in my experience, often highly inaccurate) things still being leveled at MacColl a quarter of a century after his demise - but not at the cost of discussion on their work, and the contribution they made to our music and our understanding of it - and what their efforts left behind.
Sometime this month, we hope (grant willing) to embark on two, hour-long radio programmes for Irish radio on the work of Ewan MacColl.
When we started gathering material together for the grant application, we realised that there is so much of it that has never been touched, so many aspects of the man's work that remains totally unexplored, that the problem was going to be in deciding what to exclude - there is far too much to use even to scratch the surface of the work he did, let alone, give a fair picture in what he covered in the field of folk song - in in the two hours we hope to have at our disposal.
This type of work should have happened while MacColl was living - as Peggy once said, "while he was still around to speak for himself" - to articulate and defend his own ideas.
Twenty-odd years after his death, it is still impossible to discuss MacColl's work without having first to scramble over the mountain of garbage that has been built - sometimes deliberately - around the man and his work.
It is this type of small-minded 'grave dancing' that has belittled the folk song movement and kept it in its adolescence - it really is time we allowed it to grow up and make its own way in the world.
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 May 14 - 04:12 AM

It seems Dick 'protesteth too much' when it comes to "speaking ill of the dead" - he hasn't been backward in coming forward when it comes to giving his somewhat ill-informed opinions on MacColl in the past; nor have far too many other people.
I have consistently praised MacColl as a performer and song writer,all the posts can be found on this forum, I have also defended MacColls right to have a stage name, how are these opinions ill informed?

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: The Sandman
Date: 01 May 14 - 08:25 AM

PETE SEEGER BRINGING PEOPLE TOGETHER THROUGH MUSIC.http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nDw83Tztpjg

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 May 14 - 08:56 AM

Then of course there is this tripe.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 May 14 - 09:28 AM

MODS:

I received a message from Mr Google that the site I just linked to is 'untrustworthy' and then it blocked something. If a mod could remove that post I would very much appreciate it. Sorry.

---

I changed the link to go to the site from which Google cached the 1969 article. The problem might be with the Google cache. If the page at 'peteseeger.net' still causes problems, please say so. -Mod

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST,#
Date: 01 May 14 - 12:17 PM

Many thanks :-)

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 May 14 - 03:30 PM

"This tripe" that # refers to, is the Pete Seeger entry in the Biographical Dictionary of the Left, by Francis X. Gannon.

When I was in the U.S. Army in Berlin, some sergeant tried to recruit me as a member of the John Birch Society. He gave me a copy of two volumes of this "Biographical Dictionary," and I still have it. It's a great reference to find out all the supposed misdeeds of my heroes. I'm sure the sergeant expect me to have disdain for all the people listed in his dictionary, but it had just the opposite effect on me.

I'll agree that it's tripe, but it's interesting tripe.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 01 May 14 - 08:53 PM

Here's an interesting-looking Website I came across:

http://www.rememberingpeteseeger.org/

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 02 May 14 - 02:08 AM

"I'll agree that it's tripe, but it's interesting tripe."
Ah - the John Birch Society - that certainly is a trip back to La-La Land.
It is indeed interesting tripe.
We still have a leaflet here in our collection advertising a concert The Singers Club was involved in to raise money for the 'Keep Pete out of Jail' campaign.
Good days!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: gnu
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 03:14 PM

Park named.

http://wigwameconomy.com/riverfront-park-renamed-for-pete-and-toshi/

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Joe Offer
Date: 04 Jun 14 - 03:17 PM

I got my issue of Sing Out! Magazine this week. It was a lovely tribute to Pete Seeger.

-Joe-

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: LadyJean
Date: 05 Jun 14 - 01:10 AM

to put this in perspective, have a look at some of the movies made between 1942 and 1945, when the U.S.S.R. was our ally. My father, a veteran of that conflict, would, once in a while, speak well of "Old Joe" Stalin. Dad was a staunch Republican. I think he may have voted for Nixon more than once. (But he liked Pete Seeger's music.) Things are rarely black and white. They are usually more complicated.

And I would give a lot to be at one of those July Fourth Concerts again.

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 12:21 PM

http://www.nydailynews.com/entertainment/music/seeger-fest-folk-legend-modest-revealed-article-1.1865542

Information is released about Pete's will and his estate.

"Money was not his moving force," Port said of Seeger, who was known to perform for free before labor rallies and who gave away copyrights to his most popular songs.

Seeger and his wife, Toshi, built their own log cabin in the woods in 1949. The house and its 30-acre heavily wooded lot have an official assessed value of $788,200. Toshi Seeger died in 2013.

"He made the salary of a construction worker. He was comfortable, owned his own home, drove a 2002 Subaru," Cahill-Jackson said.

Seeger also bequeathed musical instruments to his heirs — and each instrument tells a story . . .

Follow the link to read the rest.

SRS

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Sandra in Sydney
Date: 14 Jul 14 - 08:37 PM

New York is having a week of commemorations, wish I could get there!

Here in Sydney we're having a concert at 3pm on Sat 27th at the Friend in Hand pub at Glebe to remember him on the 6 month anniversary of his death.

sandra

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 17 Jul 14 - 06:04 PM

http://www.prlog.org/12349678-limited-time-discount-offer-on-critically-acclaimed-pete-seeger-biography.html

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: GUEST
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 10:18 AM

Yes, Pete can be described as a "useful idiot", but he isn't to blame for that. Everyone in Tian'anmen Square on June 4th, 1989 is a useful idiot. Back in the 60's and 70's China, primarily everybody is a useful idiot, Mao himself included. And those who stood against them all get killed - President Liu Shao-Tchi, Defense Minister Peng Te-huai - and now we call them "useless wise men".

Subject: RE: Obit: Pete Seeger (1919-2014)
From: Elmore
Date: 09 Jun 15 - 04:13 PM

Guest: Although I think I agree with you I'm not sure that I find having a debate on a post headed "Obit" is appropriate. I miss Pete's presence on the planet. As Dick Cavett said when asked to comment on the death of his colleague, David Frost, "Why is it never Cheney?"