BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'

Subject: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 10:17 AM

Boycott Divestment Sanctions working?

The Economist seems to think so.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 03:15 PM

Like!

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 04:16 PM

"The BDS (Boycott, Divestment, and Sanctions against Israel) movement has assembled a rather strange sort of bedfellows. It is led by Arab-Muslim professional propagandists who seek Israel's destruction, along with leftist students and faculty members seeking a 'cause,' and non-better than one "to stick it to the Jews." Among them, one could find naïve students with little understanding of the history of the Middle East or the Arab-Israeli conflict. It matters not that their cause is unjust, and transparently anti-Semitic, or that the Arab world unlike Israel's open democracy is homophobic, enslaves women, is utterly intolerant of Christians and Jews, or that its schools breed hatred and misanthropy."

The Hypocrisy of the BDS Movement

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 05:00 PM

bobad, nice quote. Brilliant attempt to brush away the facts on the ground with empty, loaded words.

these are the worries of Israeli business.

"Mr Lapid, who favours a two-state solution, reels out figures to show how sanctions could hit every Israeli pocket. "If negotiations with the Palestinians stall or blow up and we enter the reality of a European boycott, even a very partial one," he warned, 10,000 Israelis would "immediately" lose their jobs. Trade with the European Union, a third of Israel's total, would slump—he calculates—by $5.7 billion."

The Economist is a business magazine. It is reporting on how politics is affecting business.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 05:20 PM

Uh huh.

SPME - another self-proclaimed pro-Isreali Goverment apologist propaganda organisation; obviously a non-biased source.

Joseph Puder is and has ben a cheerleader and apologist for Netanyahu and his gang.

C'mon, BooBad- this is even worse than you usual drivel.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 05:29 PM

If anyone believes that a peaceful resolution can be had by demonizing one side in the conflict - well, I have some bad news for you.

Here is one person who is going about it the right way, Ahmed Meligy an Egyptian Muslim. You can read about him and the work he's doing HERE. Check out the links to his blog and that of YaLa. It is people like these who will eventually bring peace to that part of the world not those haters who are trying to "stick it to the Jews."

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 05:35 PM

"stick it to the Jews."

I'm glad that you put that in quotes.

Have you ever heard anyone say that?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 05:43 PM

Ah yes Greg, Jews supporting their government and having an opinion on BDS, what was I thinking- we can't have that - after all we know what they're like...right.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 05:47 PM

Is SPME in Israel Bobad? Is it their government they are supporting?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Richard Bridge
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 05:58 PM

Hmm, the analogy of South Africa being overlooked, then?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 07 Feb 14 - 08:16 PM

BDS is the strategy of South Africa, isn't it?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 04:45 AM

"Like!"
Me too Richard.
Israel has just been forced by world pressure to abandon their attempts to ghettoise the Bedouins of Israel - the 'Prawar Plan' has been widely described as part of an attempt to "ethnically cleanse" the Bedouins from Israeli territory.
Previous attempts at ethnic cleansing have included the proposed moving of Bedouins onto toxic rubbish dumps (also abandoned - then at the insistence of The U.N.), and the use of high pressure water cannons and chemical sprays on Bedouin homes and crops.
John Kerry has been accused of "Antisemitism" because he has exposed what he claims to have been deliberate attempts by Israel to scupper the Palestinian/Israeli peace talks.
There is world condemnation of Israel's continuing settlement policy in the middle of peace talks.
Last year a documentary film interviewing a number of ex Mossad chiefs had one of them comparing the present Israeli regime to the Nazis (straight from the horses mouth).
The Israeli regime doesn't seem to care much, why should it - it has powerful allies and nuclear weapons (god help us all)
Maybe hitting them in the pocket with economic sanctions and ostracisation might do the trick - it eventually did with South Africa.
More power to their elbows.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 10:35 AM

Ah yes Greg, Jews supporting their government and having an opinion on BDS -

Gee, BooBad- Seemed to me that article was written by this dude Puder- not by "Jews". Is Puder an Israeli National, by the way?

Do check out the article "The International Holocaust Remembrance Day Charade January 30, 2014 by Joseph Puder. The world pays lip service to the Holocaust — while laying the groundwork for the next one."

And then there are the Israelis and other Jews world-wide who OPPOSE the current Israeli government- or have you forgotten about them, again?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 12:59 PM

http://www.seamac.org/EqualRights.htm

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/stanley-kutler/israel-can-do-no-wrong-je_b_4521643.html

http://www.icahd.org/

http://iilah.unimelb.edu.au/files/dmfile/download51921.pdf

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jews_for_Justice_for_Palestinians

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 01:43 PM

THE GLOBAL BDS CAMPAIGN LAID BARE

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 01:48 PM

"And then there are the Israelis and other Jews world-wide who OPPOSE the current Israeli government- or have you forgotten about them, again?"

Well duh, as in democratic country there are some who oppose their government that's why they have elections.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 03:16 PM

"THE GLOBAL BDS CAMPAIGN LAID BARE", BooBad?

How about Peter Wertheim's long-standing defense of illegal Isreali "settlements"?

Well duh, as in democratic country there are some who oppose their government ...

And according to you these persons are "anti-Semites", correct?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 08 Feb 14 - 03:50 PM

"THE GLOBAL BDS CAMPAIGN LAID BARE"
We didn't do it guv!!!
They would say that, wouldn't they?
"And according to you these persons are "anti-Semites"
Which means that all Jews are to be held responsible for the Israeli human rights crimes that the Israeli regimes have now been out on over one hundred occasions (to date)
- hmm
Sounds a bit Antisemitic to me!!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 11:57 AM

Foreign investment in Tel Aviv Stock Exchange tripled in 2013

Foreign investments in companies traded on the Tel Aviv Stock Exchange more than tripled from 2012 to 2013, according to figures the Bank of Israel released Sunday.

Nonresident net investments reached about $1.5 billion in TASE shares in 2013, primarily in pharmaceuticals, banking and communications industries. In 2012, the figure amounted to only $410 million, indicating an increase of some 266% in 2013.
   
Nonresidents also bought $940 million in Israeli shares that were traded abroad, on exchanges such as the NASDAQ, in 2013.

All in all, though, Israelis invested more of their money abroad, with Israel's institutional investors putting some $3.36 billion into foreign shares, households investing $2.1 billion, and the business sector investing $1.3 billion abroad.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 12:23 PM

What are the point of your meaningless snippets Boo-Boo apart from the fact that the Ireali regime is raking in money from its terrorist activities - just as South frica did from enslaving the black population
Doesn't change the fact they are a terrorist state which needs U.S vetoes to keep it out of the War Crimes court
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 12:26 PM

>>Nonresidents also bought $940 million in Israeli shares that were traded abroad, on exchanges such as the NASDAQ, in 2013.<<

Non residents who defend "their government" from articles in The Economist?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 01:04 PM

Re.BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'

The Organization for Economic Cooperation and Development (OECD) praised Israel's economic growth in 2013 and predicted that its economy will continue to grow in 2014 and 2015 at a rate that exceeds growth projections for the OECD's other 33 member nations, Israel Hayom reported.

"Israel's output growth remains relatively strong, unemployment is at historically low levels, its high-tech sector continues to attract international admiration and new off-shore gas fields have come on stream," the OECD said in the executive summary of its 2013 Israel Economic Survey.

The report projected that Israel's economy would grow by 3.7 per cent in 2013, compared to 3.9-per cent growth in 2012. Growth projections for 2014 and 2015 were pegged at 3.4 per cent and 3.5 per cent, respectively. As a result, unemployment is expected to rise from its current historic low of 5.9 per cent to a range of 6.6-6.9 per cent. The OECD also praised the Israeli economy for being one of the most turmoil-resistant economies in the West and for its high-tech industry.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 01:21 PM

How does that compare with Israel's neighbours Bobad?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 01:26 PM

You are still arguing "Israel is rich so you can stuff your human right" Boo-Boo
It's still a terrorist state, no matter how rich it becomes - or are you arguing that money puts it above international law?
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 01:40 PM

Would that Israel's neighbours enjoyed the same level of human rights as do ALL of Israel's citizens - the Middle East would be a much more peaceful and prosperous place.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 01:44 PM

He is not arguing anything. I say good luck to Israel as more and more people and countries boycott their goods, especially goods like Sodastream, made by exploited labor on stolen land, and more and more of their investment comes from people who enjoy the benefits of other countries while claiming that "their government" is Israel.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 03:12 PM

Ah, Jack, you old anti-Semite you......

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 09 Feb 14 - 03:56 PM

Meanwhile, Palestinians who work at the factory tell the International Business Times that they are just trying to make a living.

Yasmin Abu Markhia, 22, is proudly Palestinian. When asked about her nationality, she lifted her sleeve to show a Palestinian-flag bracelet.

Abu Markhia checks and stacks the carbon dioxide canisters that go inside SodaStream machines. She has worked at the factory for just four months. Considering she's a Palestinian living in Jerusalem but working in the occupied West Bank, the political storm is far from her mind. She said she sees no conflict in working at SodaStream: "We are human, we earn good money and the work is good."

SodaStream Yasmin Abu Markhia Yasmin Abu Markhia, a Palestinian worker at SodaStream in the occupied West Bank, proudly shows her Palestinian bracelet. Kate Shuttleworth

Zafid Abu Aballah, 28, is an Israeli Arab who has been a machine operator at the factory for four years. He earns $2,000 a month, significantly more than the Palestinian Authority minimum wage of 1,450 Israeli shekels ($377).

"I have an Israeli passport. If the firm closed I could find another job, but Palestinians would not be able to. There are no jobs for Palestinians in the West Bank," he said. "This is political, but the people here just want to work and live, they don't have an interest in the politics between Palestine and Israel."

Palestinian Nabil Basharat, 40, from a village near Ramallah, has worked for SodaStream for four years and is now a shift manager. He supports his wife and six children on an income he says is high by both Palestinian and Israeli standards. About the boycott, he said it came down to protecting the workers' ability to earn a fair wage:

"We understand their [BDS and Oxfam's] opinion, but they need to understand what the factory gives the Palestinian workers, and there are a lot of factories in this area doing the same thing."

Similarly Palestinian Asharaf Aballi, 28, from Jenin, said he supported his parents, his wife and another eight family members on his income of $2,000: "First off we need a job and an income to live -- I have a family and I need money."

An unemployed youth near Qalandiya checkpoint, who gave his name as Yasser, said the minimum wage in the Palestinian Authority made it nearly impossible to live. "We need more factories like SodaStream. It's hard to get a job there," he said.

SodaStream CEO Daniel Birnbaum told IBTimes on Monday that he is "fed up" with the Palestinian-Israeli conflict and that businesspeople should take the opportunity to contribute to peace. He also said he didn't agree with settlements and believes that they shouldn't be built, despite the fact that his factory sits in the center of one. His company can in fact be "a model for peace." "We are showing Israelis and Palestinians that there can be peace," Birnbaum said.

IBT

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 12:46 PM

I didn't buy anything from South Africa, till the apartheid regime ended.

The same goes for Israel. I look forward to the day I'll be able to eat Israeli oranges as well as South African.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 01:04 PM

BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'

I am happy that the Soda Stream PR person could find so many positive stories. Warms the heart. Where is the factory located? How was the land obtained? What is the opportunity cost to the Palestinians of stolen land and flattened orchards?


McGrath

Are Israeli oranges sustainable? The "miracle" of Israeli agriculture seems to have a high environmental cost. I am not an expert on irrigation but I suspect oranges can and are grown more sustainably elsewhere.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 01:11 PM

Palestinian workers praise SodaStream - and Scarlett Johansson

It's time to stop faulting Israel for all our problems, Palestinian worker says.

HAARETZ

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 02:57 PM

"Would that Israel's neighbours enjoyed the same level of human rights as do ALL of Israel's citizens "
Except those suffering against the apartheid system that is being protested against by Israelis and Arabs alike, of course - not to mention the ethnically-cleansed Bedouins!
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 03:48 PM

They actually are better off than Israel's neighbours!

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 04:00 PM

Better than Syrians maybe. But that has been recent.

Bobad, Do you think that HAARETZ is a neutral source? It isn't worth opening the link.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 04:43 PM

The Bedouin in Egypt are much worse off than Bedouin Israelis.
I am sure there is truth in that survey that found Arab Israelis would not choose to live in Arab lands.
I am sure Israel would let them go if they wanted to leave.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 05:06 PM

The Bedouin in Egypt are much worse off than Bedouin Israelis.

And this is likely confirmed by "all historians", right, self-identified complete idiot?

And that would justify wht Israel is doing, oh self-DEMONSTRATED idiot?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Tootler
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 05:23 PM

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jack the Sailor
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 06:10 PM

"I am sure Israel would let them go if they wanted to leave. "

I am sure that Egypt would not let them in.

What does that have to do with Israel stealing their land?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 06:51 PM

"It is led by Arab-Muslim professional propagandists who seek Israel's destruction, along with leftist students and faculty members seeking a 'cause,' and non-better than one "to stick it to the Jews."

I mustt have missed the reference in that article to "JEWS". All I saw was "ISRAEL".

Perhaps you would point out the comment to which you refer?

Or did you, as usual, invent it?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 07:03 PM

"It's time to stop faulting Israel for all our problems, Palestinian worker says."

How about canvassing the views of a few non "Uncle Tom" Palestinians?

You know, the Palestinians squeezed into 40% of the West Bank. What do they think of Israeli "Democracy"?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 10 Feb 14 - 10:05 PM

Apartheid South Africa was also a democracy in the sense that it had elections and a parliamentary system. To get over the criticism that black people weren't allowed to vote they set up Bantustans where they could vote.

Israeli democracy has a similar pattern, with the difference that the excluded electorate actually live in the Bantustans, and the remnant of Palestinians who are not in exile are allowed to vote.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 08:20 AM

"It is not difficult to recognize that BDS's target is not Israeli policies, but Israel itself. American political scientist Norman Finkelstein points out that BDS claims to be agnostic on Israel. However, as he also points out, their three goals only lead to one logical conclusion: the destruction of Israel. This campaign demonizes Israel through the slanderous accusation of apartheid. Israel is not an apartheid state. Israel's Basic Laws guarantee equal treatment for all citizens, including Arab-Israeli citizens. The Occupation, in spite of its brutality, is the result of a long and complex territorial conflict in which neither Israel nor the Palestinians have been without blame. The "Wall" was built for security purposes, not to enforce racial segregation. While the construction of the "Wall" has hurt Palestinians, it has also reduced the number of Palestinian attacks on Israeli citizens. This is the kind of nuance that the label "apartheid" obscures. Indeed, the word "apartheid" is not an accurate criticism of Israeli policies, but a weapon aimed at the very idea of Israel."

The McGill Daily

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 10:01 AM

BDS's target is not Israeli policies, but Israel itself....their three goals only lead to one logical conclusion: the destruction of Israel.

Horseshit. An anonymous, un-footnoted article in a college blog?

Try

Here

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: McGrath of Harlow
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 10:37 AM

"Apartheid" is the Afrikaans word for separation. That seems a fair teem for what has happened to the overwhelming majority of Palestinians, in terms of their homeland.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Keith A of Hertford
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 10:57 AM

Would the same word encompass the keeping of Palestinians in camps with no rights at all for seventy years, which has been the practice in countries other than Israel.
That really is "separation."

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: bobad
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 11:20 AM

"I mean we have to be honest, and I loathe the disingenuous. They don't want Israel. They think they are being very clever; they call it their three tier. We want the end of the occupation, the right of return, and we want equal rights for Arabs in Israel. And they think they are very clever because they know the result of implementing all three is what, what is the result?

You know and I know what the result is. There's no Israel!"



"They say no they're not really talking about rights. They're talking about they want to destroy Israel. And in fact I think they're right I think that's true. I'm not going to lie. But this kind of duplicity and disingenuous, "oh we're agnostic about Israel." No you're not agnostic! You don't want it! Then just say it!"

Norman Finkelstein on BDS

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Jim Carroll
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 11:38 AM

"The Bedouin in Egypt are much worse off than Bedouin Israelis."
Even if ths were true, so what - it does not excuse the programme of ethnic cleansing Israel has just been forced to abandon (which you supported up to the point that they withdrew if, then you and your two mates went ballistic) - a human rights atrocity is a human rights atrocity whichever bunch of thugs commits it; same with apartheid, chemical weapons, massacring refugees... hand all the other atrocities Isral has been saved from being indicted as a war criminal by U.S. - U.N. veoes ("but they said they didn't do it!!").
Jim Carroll

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: GUEST
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 11:49 AM

Is Norman Finkelstein one of those Americans who is defending their government in Israel?

Who is he that we should take his word as to what the BDS movement means over the word of those leading the BDS movement?

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Stringsinger
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 12:15 PM

Jews all over the world decry the violence of Zionism, which entails the oppression of Palestinians.

Norman Finkelstein does't believe that a compromise in Israel which will accept leadership of both Jewish and Palestinian governance is possible.

We have a similar problem in America where many Christians want to Christianize America and not allow other religious or non-religious views to take root, defending Israel in their theological nationalism as a part of their own biblical prophecy.



The BDS movement is not a cult because it doesn't ostracize people who don't join it.
There is no guru here. The purpose is to send a message to Israeli leaders that they don't want expansionist behavior, restrictive walls and the maltreatment of the Palestinian people.

The nations of Israel and America must be redefined to include democratic values and not authoritarian religious values. The US is not a Christian nation therefore it behooves Israel not to be a Jewish nation. Theocracy can lead only to more bloodshed.

Subject: RE: BS: BDS of Israel 'Gathering Weight.'
From: Greg F.
Date: 11 Feb 14 - 12:18 PM

Is Norman Finkelstein one of those Americans who is defending their government in Israel?

Unfortunately, yes. But he must have hit his head recently - ordinarily, he's usually considerably more connected to the real world.