BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 05:47 PM



Here Ya Go, Scientist

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Actual Scientist
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 05:18 PM

Pete isn't trying to take over the world, but his ilk are sure trying to take over the USA.

Therefore, I intend to counter this nonsense in real life and on Mudcat.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 03:42 PM

You're absolutely right, of course, Jeri. We'd probably have more effect by going down to Essex - or wherever it is he lives - and giving him a jolly good duffing over. Luckily for him, though, I don't believe (that word again!)in violence.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 03:29 PM

When it comes to politics and religion, I'm fine with argument. The separation of church and state is a GOOD thing.

Being Mudcat, I don't think we have a whole lot of effect on politics. Especially pretty much everyone who's arguing one side is doing so with ONE GUY on the other side. I'm also pretty sure Pete isn't trying to take over the world.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,sciencegeek
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 03:16 PM

It's not worth arguing.... Arguing - no. What is needed is educating because political decisions made in ignorance can have profound and lasting effects.

I do not have any desire to live in world run by creationists, any more than I want one run by jihadists or any other fundamentalist group that seeks to replace science with dogma and intellectual freedom with repressive ideology. The only freedom they want is to shove thir belief systems down the throats of the rest of the world.

We already had one Dark Ages, we hardly need another one.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Jeri
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 02:55 PM

Reading some of the comments/questions about evolution, I came to realize there's a real big lack of understanding there. It's not worth arguing.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 01:19 PM

Nor are they people who can reason.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 12:43 PM

Calling you a fool is probably counter-productive (whether you are a fool or not is a different matter!). Nevertheless, Creationists are not, by any stretch of the imagination, "reasonable" people!

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 11:55 AM

interesting......you start these threads [ or refresh them- actual] and then complain when someone differs.
you don't seem to be able to help yourselves !
you have to keep trying to provoke this "fool".
keep tossing insults.......any reasonable onlookers can judge who is being reasonable...whatever their own belief system.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 10:29 AM

Stu....he's not. I know him "in real life" and this kind of drivel is *really* what he believes! I've sometimes thought he was taking the piss, but I've realised that in common with many single-issue fanatics, he really does believe that his outpourings (or those he swallows wholesale from his gurus) are reasonable, and manages to self-censor his head from properly processing information that contradicts his pre-ordained position.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Stu
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 10:06 AM

Streuth.

Give up chaps. He's taking the pish.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 08:49 AM

creationists dig a deeper hole to stand in.

Now if only someone would toss a few cubic yards of earth into that hole on top of them......

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: sciencegeek
Date: 03 Jun 14 - 05:35 AM

here we see the opposite of Newton's premise that if he has seen further, it is due to standing on the shoulders of giants....

to avoid seeing anything they don't want, creationists dig a deeper hole to stand in.

sad...

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 12:46 PM

NB: 02 Jun 14 - 08:59 AM in response to Shimrod 02 Jun 14 - 06:11 AM

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Actual Scientist
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 10:44 AM

"well, I believe that was what Darwin conjectured, but are not mutations added to the mix now = neo-Darwin ?"

The science of genetics did not exist in Darwin's day you fool. You consistently point to advancements in science as evidence that the original science is false. In science, changing explanations are a good thing! And if they build upon previous explanations, it supports the previous (albeit incomplete) explanation. As William Whewell said...
"The {theories} we accept ought to explain phenomena which we have observed {and} foretell phenomena which have not yet been observed."

Darwin did not know how the the small changes that were acted upon by natural selection occurred, but he knew they occurred. One hundred years later, they were identified as mutations. Perfect example of Whewell's axiom.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 08:59 AM

Why can't it be both?

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Actual Scientist
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 08:58 AM

"and that represents a gain of information ?"

Sure as shit does (but that is an irrelevant question in any case).

Haven't read Darwin, haven't read the link... no basis whatsoever for the nonsense you spew.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 06:11 AM

Yes, pete, your determination to confuse belief and evidence is all a bit odd. Is this wilful ignorance on your part or do you genuinely not know the difference?

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 02 Jun 14 - 01:21 AM

How would you improve the ant?

It even exhibits altruism, community spirit and many other "moral" aspects that Jesus freaks reckon you can only have if you pray etc.

What do you know about the ant community your amber encased specimen came from pete?

To be fair, I reckon, given that you recognise it to be older than young earth creationists reckon the earth is, that the ants would have developed Sky+ before humans did.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 05:23 PM

We don't give a shit what you "believe", pete. Science, as you've been told many times, isn't a belief system.

ALSO, since you admit you've never READ Darwin or anything about evolution whatsoever, other than creationist horseshit, you're in no position to comment.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 01 Jun 14 - 02:22 PM

well, I believe that was what Darwin conjectured, but are not mutations added to the mix now = neo-Darwin ?
read an interesting article about ants recently. lots of fascinating info , but apparently they have a very short shelf life , but of course multiply copiously. there was a picture of an ant caught in amber....supposedly millions of yrs ago.
and what did the antcestor of the ant look like before thousands/ millions of reproductions up to the present day?
well, I think it looked just about the same.
of course evolutionist have a double speak word for this .....evolutionary stasis!

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Jeri
Date: 31 May 14 - 06:15 PM

Natural selection is how evolution happens.

Oh, why bother...

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 31 May 14 - 06:14 PM

if you like to explain how this is evolution rather than devolution

The man is completely hopeless. Give it up, scientist, you're just "annoying the pig".

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 31 May 14 - 05:18 PM

So the crickets have lost their clicky wing song ! and that represents a gain of information ? .....evolutionary progression?
well I have not looked it up, admittedly. but if you like to explain how this is evolution rather than devolution , I might think it worth the effort.
evolution observed? should that not be natural selection observed ?

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Actual Scientist
Date: 31 May 14 - 09:53 AM

Well, well, well...
Evolution observed.
Under pressure from introduced parasitic flies, crickets in Hawaii changed their wing shapes, losing the ability to sing... Which is how the flies were finding them.
Or did god just tell them to shutup?

http://www.the-scientist.com/?articles.view/articleNo/40084/title/For-Some-Male-Crickets--Silence-Means-Survival/

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Musket
Date: 03 May 14 - 04:17 AM

If you ever come across a Darwinist, can you get their autograph for me?

I might make a few bob on eBay

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 03 May 14 - 02:35 AM

So, what's it going to be, gentlemen? Will pete link Darwinism with the Nazis and/or Stalinists or will he accuse Darwinists of developing the atomic bomb?

Place your bets now!

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Actual Scientist
Date: 02 May 14 - 06:14 PM

No no no.

pete is going to go for this syllogism:

darwinists are scientists
scientists created the atomic bomb
darwinists have killed hundreds of thousands in recent history

wait for it...

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 02 May 14 - 05:26 PM

Pete:
shimrod,...being as I think that your everything from nothing via no one is a fundamental faith position, I could just as easily lay the same charges against evolutionists/atheists. a few Darwin devotees in more recent history killed more people than in the whole history of Christendom, if not all theistic religion.
of course such tyrants did think they were special and were intolerant and authoritarian, and their fantasies certainly led to violent excesses.

Are you perhaps referring to Stalin, who was educated at a Seminary in preparation for taking up a post in the Orthodox priesthood? He was never a Darwinist, but was a strong supporter of the theories of Lysenko...about as far from Darwinism as you can get in genetics.

Or perhaps you mean Hitler?....who reached an accommodation with the Catholic church and whose troops all had "Gott Mit Uns" embossed on their uniform belts? His ideas on eugenics and the "master race" had nothing whatsoever to do with truue Darwinism, but were a perversion of it.

Peter, please educate yourself a little, as the sort of remarks you come out with just make you look increasingly daft.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 02 May 14 - 02:51 PM

Give him a chance, Shimrod - he and Keith have got together & are working on it.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 02 May 14 - 01:26 PM

"a few Darwin devotees in more recent history killed more people than in the whole history of Christendom, if not all theistic religion."

I think how we left it, pete, you were going to tell us who these muderous "Darwin devotees" were. What's the matter - cat got your tongue? Perhaps even you can't bring yourself to cast such an outrageous slur on the reputations of today's hard working scientists by suggesting that they've inherited a legacy of genocide!

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Musket
Date: 02 May 14 - 12:55 PM

I once got pissed up in Bude if that helps?



Quite severely I recall.


I have just reread The Grand Design by Stephen Hawking. If nothing else, he has a way of portraying the scientific process and the folly of sticking God in the gaps.

But there again, there is much else... Interesting to have a scan of this thread after reading it.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 May 14 - 07:34 PM

Anyone else waiting to see how the mods wade in to give us all a bollocking, delete posts and defend nasty little pete? If none of that happens, I apologise right now.

Yours sincerely,

Severely Pissed Off of Bude.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 May 14 - 07:28 PM

Honestly, Shimrod, he's not worth it.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 May 14 - 04:53 PM

" ...I think that your everything from nothing via no one is a fundamental faith position, ..."

No it's not - just show me the evidence for your preferred alternative.

And just who were these "Darwin devotees" who committed mass murder? I suspect I know who you're referring to - but let's see you spell it out.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 May 14 - 04:18 PM

Stu, Greg at al., let's resist the urge to "explain" to this scumbag why he's so deluded on this issue. It's been tried before so many times. He doesn't give a shit. His kind never do. He's every bit as nasty as those so-called "Darwin devotees" he's referring to. Vicious, ignorant, dishonest, and, I might add, bloody unchristian to boot.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Stu
Date: 01 May 14 - 03:38 PM

Thanks Shim, spot on.


"a few Darwin devotees in more recent history killed more people than in the whole history of Christendom, if not all theistic religion."

Er, no.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Greg F.
Date: 01 May 14 - 03:10 PM

What the hell is pete going on about? Its more than an ignorant slur - its lunacy.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Steve Shaw
Date: 01 May 14 - 02:55 PM

a few Darwin devotees in more recent history killed more people than in the whole history of Christendom

Ah, it wasn't going to be long before you resurrected this ignorant slur. You are low-life scum.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 01 May 14 - 02:23 PM

thankyou for filling in the historical blanks, rob.

shimrod,...being as I think that your everything from nothing via no one is a fundamental faith position, I could just as easily lay the same charges against evolutionists/atheists. a few Darwin devotees in more recent history killed more people than in the whole history of Christendom, if not all theistic religion.
of course such tyrants did think they were special and were intolerant and authoritarian, and their fantasies certainly led to violent excesses.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Shimrod
Date: 01 May 14 - 09:54 AM

" ... if shooting schoolgirls for wanting to learn is In your opinion, advocated, or ever will be ,by Christian teaching it betrays imo a somewhat off beam power of reasoning."

One hopes that Christians will not decide, at some future date, that they need to go around shooting shooting schoolgirls in the head! But I think that Stu is making a wider point - and that is that people who profess to religious faith (i.e. who choose to believe fervently and unquestioningly in something invisible for which there's no evidence)have a tendency to consider themselves 'special' and different from 'unbelievers'. This line of thinking can harden into fundamentalism. Religious fundamentalist are often evangelistic, intolerant and authoritarian and can be angry at the world for not embracing their fantasies. It is all too easy for such anger to lead to violent excesses. We all know that Muslim fundamentalist have committed cruel and violent acts in the recent past but Christian fundamentalists too have been cruel and violent in the more distant past (witch burnings anyone?). I don't think that it's unreasonable to suggest that religious fundamentalism poses a potential danger to us all and we need to be wary of it.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 01 May 14 - 05:21 AM

Pete: rob. I watched a BBC docudrama this week about Piltdown on the net.
that may have omissions or inaccuracies, granted, but I got the impression that it was not rumbled as soon as you say, and that the tests confirming the fraud were done shortly before the papers made it public 40 yr on. sir Arthur keith is portrayed as being upset that he could have been taken in by it.
if, as you say, all the scientists knew it was a forgery, why was it not made public sooner. I could hazard a guess, but it is only a guess.

It was a docuDRAMA Pete. There's a clue in the name!

The presentation to the Geological Society was made in 1912.

In 1913, David Waterston at King's College London published in "Nature" his conclusion that the sample consisted of an ape mandible and human skull.

Marcellin Boule, a paleontologist, concluded the same thing in 1915 after analysing the finds extensively.

Gerrit Miller concluded Piltdown's jaw came from a fossil ape in 1917.

In 1923, Franz Weidenreich examined the remains and correctly reported that they consisted of a modern human cranium and an orangutan jaw with filed-down teeth.

Arthur Keith had initial doubts but these were allayed by other (also hoax) finds made at Sheffield Park, although his doubts resurfaces again in the 1920s before he finally accepted Piltdown Man as true.

The early work throwing doubts on PM was based on analysis of the fragments and comparison with ape and human jaws and teeth.

Absolute proof of the hoax had to wait until the flourine testing methodology was discovered, which proved that the fragments were recent, hence the actual proven "exposure" of the hoax being as late as 1953. Well before then, as more and more fossils had been discovered elsewhere, more and more paleontologists had come to recognise that there was somthing fishy about PM.

It was, however, as I said above, the self-correcting mechanism of science that proved the hoax, and I find your innudendo about the motives of scientists frankly insulting. The motives of most scientists are searches for truth. The motives of most creationists are in creating "smoke and mirrors" to desperately hang onto the illusion that their ludicrous fantasy on the age of the universe actually has some substance.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Rob Naylor
Date: 01 May 14 - 04:33 AM

Actual Scientist: mainly Exploration Geophysics, with other bits of stuff thrownin now and then.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Actual Scientist
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 10:30 PM

Rob Naylor!!!!

Solid Earth or Exploration Geophysics?
Or both?
Or something else? (paleomag?)

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Stu saying the word 'arse'
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 05:24 PM

Bloody effin' science. Me tablet posted a message saying nowt. Ghosts in the machine. Operator error. Let it steep.

Anyhow, being a fat talentless git I will never feel intellectually superior to anyone, here or anywhere else. However, an opinion I have and am entitled to, and if a man asks a question, or posits a theory or viewpoint challenge it I am allowed to.

Organising thoughts. Seeking truth. Eating whelks. Finding those triangular bits of plastic in rummage drawers. Yes, it is indeed.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Musket
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 04:53 PM

Is the plot to convince pete he is wrong or to get satisfaction from feeling intellectually superior?

pete is a looney. Stop giving him the illusion he is debating his fixation and giving it respectability.






That's torn it. pete occasionally acknowledges my presence but that isn't usually after questioning his sanity.

Religious delusion. The more you argue against it, the more smug it gets.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,pete from seven stars link
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 04:32 PM

glad to be of service, but if shooting schoolgirls for wanting to learn is In your opinion, advocated, or ever will be ,by Christian teaching it betrays imo a somewhat off beam power of reasoning.
you might want to connect that to a different religion for that sort of thing. and however misogynistic you consider the origins of the Christian faith, I reckon the women of the first century at least, would have thought it a massive improvement.

rob. I watched a BBC docudrama this week about Piltdown on the net.
that may have omissions or inaccuracies, granted, but I got the impression that it was not rumbled as soon as you say, and that the tests confirming the fraud were done shortly before the papers made it public 40 yr on. sir Arthur keith is portrayed as being upset that he could have been taken in by it.
if, as you say, all the scientists knew it was a forgery, why was it not made public sooner.
I could hazard a guess, but it is only a guess.
,

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Stu
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 04:29 PM

I have no idea why that posted twice. 'plogies.

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: GUEST,Stu in the fizzy electron cloud
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 03:46 PM

SRS -like it, but it would never get past peer review ;-)

Subject: RE: BS: Mungo Man Holdover From Closed Thread
From: Stilly River Sage
Date: 30 Apr 14 - 12:24 PM

We'll plan to look one day for a New York Times bestseller, it being a compilation of your essay attempts to communicate with Pete. :)

SRS